206. Maker's Mark with Rob Samuels

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

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Hey, I'm Mike Hyde and you're listening to The Bourbon Road. So traveling down through the Kentucky roads this morning, the fog was rolling across Taylorsville Lake as I crossed the bridges there. We crossed over the Bluegrass Parkway headed south a little while through Lincoln's hometown of Springfield, Kentucky. And would you ever guess where I went to? I ended up at Makers Mark, pretty much the home of Weaded Bourbon. They don't make anything else here. And I'm lucky enough to have on today some of that family. Rob Samuel's Bourbon, I guess, royalty, really.

Well, we're proud of the legacy. We love that people travel great distance today to come see us, but we honor my grandparents who had created Maker's Mark just over 65 years ago. I actually have the property deed on my desk and can show it to you where they paid $28,000 in 1952 for hundreds and hundreds of acres. And while I love that you appreciated the drive down through, and I love the mornings, the sunrises in the community here, it just takes my breath away. And I still can never get enough of that. But they started here as a hobby. And he had come from a long line of whiskey makers, but they didn't really have a commercial ambition or a commercial sort of direction. It was truly, could he create a different style of bourbon?

Well, they definitely created a style for me. You know, I I am the hashtag king or weedy king of Kentucky, right? I love we did bourbon, everything we did bourbon, the history of it. I love the stories about your family, your grandmother cooking bread and saying, hey, which one tastes better? The story about her throwing your dad's kind of school projects outside to create the red wax in a chicken fryer.

And we still have that actual deep fryer. She demonstrated to my grandfather this idea of celebrating the handmade values of his handmade bourbon. She actually picked up a few bottles, would demonstrate hand dipping in red wax and the tendrils and what the individuality of each bottle would represent in celebration of his founding handmade vision. And it was interesting. All the stories that I heard were that they almost never disagreed about anything. But I think in that moment, she I don't necessarily understood exactly what she was trying to convey with hand dipping bottles. And he he actually challenged her. And it was in that moment that she reminded him as classmates who between the two of them actually graduated first in the class.

And it wasn't him. They had the chemistry backgrounds, right? So it wasn't like they didn't know what they were doing.

Well, you know, looking back, they complimented each other so beautifully. I mean, truly, if you've ever met a craftsman or a craftswoman, they're only usually ever interested in whatever it is they're making. And that was true to who he was. So when they settled here, our family had made whiskey for 160 years prior to the creation of what would become known as Maker's Mark. And fundamentally, my grandfather wanted to go as far away from sort of the legacy of American whiskey being a little harsh, a little abrasive, almost test of manhood. They actually torched the legacy family whiskey that we had produced for 160 years in this brass bucket that's here in this very conference room. But he was a patient person. He had broken down each and every step of the whiskey making process. Every single decision was influenced by the flavor vision that he had for this very soft, rich, full-flavored, balanced bourbon, a cast-strength whiskey straight out of the barrel that wouldn't blow your ears off with bitterness. And then my grandmother Margie did everything else. She designed this distillery to be the soul of the brand. In many circles, she's actually credited with inventing bourbon tourism because distilleries had never really formally begun to host guests. And then she designed the bottle, created the name, which has never changed.

Well, it is a stunning distillery. If you've never been here, listeners, if you've never been down to Maker's Mark, now you just can't throw a stone down the road and get here. It can be some twists and some turns and a nice slow drive. You can roll your window down, get that nice Kentucky breeze in. You might be able to smell the corn being harvested this time of year.

They were purposeful. Why would anyone choose to build anything this far off the beaten path? But they chose this site because of nature. Today, the Maker's Mark distillery sits on a 1,300-acre working farm. They chose this site because of our spring-fed lake, which is still to this day, our exclusive water source for all of the production inside the distillery. Literally, at the bottom of this 14-acre spring-fed lake is a pipe that goes into the basement of the distillery. Not only do we own our own water source, but we own all of our watersheds. We manage almost 750 acres as a nature preserve and water sanctuary.

That's Birch Springs.

It's actually a spring-fed lake that's just beyond the boundaries of the heart of our distillery campus. And then all of the watershed that actually influences the lake, including the 30 springs that feed the lake, are here on this property. And when we think about the future, even within whiskey circles, I'm not sure folks recognize as often as we should that bourbon whiskey is an agricultural product. And are we doing everything we should be doing and could be doing to preserve nature and how nature influences the whiskey for the next, the next generation of whiskey makers?

Yeah, that's true about the agricultural part of it. Not only that as part of the forestry too, when you take the barrel in it and then you take steel rings into it too, I would think probably come out of the, uh, steel mines, you know, the iron mines up in Minnesota. So true American spirit, you know, you take the wood, you take the crane, you take the steel, you put all that together and you come out with something very beautiful in a glass. Now in front of us, I see some of that brown water sitting in front of us. What'd you pour for us today?

I poured the embodiment of my grandparents' taste vision, which is cast strength maker's mark. When they settled here on this location, guided by this vision to create a soft, rich, full-flavored balanced bourbon, a bourbon that would have layers of texture, some baking spices, but would not have the traditional bitterness. Each and every step of the process that we employ today is exactly as it was in the very beginning, starting with that natural spring-fed lake as our water source. We grind our grain with a roller mill, which is horribly inefficient, but it allows us to get to the starches without scorching the grain. Slow cook. We still propagate our Samuel's family yeast strain here on site. And then to my knowledge, if not the only one of the small handful of distilleries in the world that actually rotates barrels through the maturation process. So we have a team of almost 35 people. Most all they do through the year is actually move those barrels through the maturation process to ensure consistency over time.

Well, heck, let's taste this.

Okay. Well, we're actually in the room where my grandfather would, in the beginning, he was the tasting panel. And today, we have 25 individuals on our tasting panel, 18 women, seven men. Our average batch size is 22 to 23 barrels through each and every step of the process. But our tasting panel will check in and taste a little bit out of each batch almost five times before we bottle.

So we're drinking 110.6 proof. And what's the mash bill?

The mash bill for Maker's Mark has never changed. 70% corn, 16% soft red winter wheat, and 14% malted barley. All of the corn and the wheat we source from within 30 to 45 miles of the distillery. Maker's Mark goes in the barrel to 110 proof. And this rolled out at 110.6.

Such a beautiful nose on this floral. It's almost a caramel bomb inside there too. It just is, uh, coming out with those floral notes. I always get that honeysuckle on a back country road. I know our listeners like, can you think of another floral note? But that's really what I get. Um, and then maybe some kettle corn from a fair on this. The oak is definitely there. And how long did you let this age?

Since the very beginning, Maker's Mark on average has been between five years, nine months, and seven and a half years old. So one of the primary responsibilities of our tasting panel, given the variability through the seasons and the intensity of the summer through the center, the seasons into the colder months of the winter, our tasting panel tells us when it's time to bring Makers Mark out of the barrel. So our age statement, while we don't have a traditional age statement, is fully mature. But on average, since the founding, about six years and a quarter.

I'm getting a little bit of Heath bar on this, that toffee inside there, a little bit of chocolate. If it had some crunch to it, which may be the spice of this, would be that crunch. You got that total package of a Heath bar inside a glass of a beautiful bourbon.

When I enjoy Makers Mark, celebrating the baking spices that are within each glass, we don't chill filter and have never chill filtered, so I get a lot of the viscosity and the weight that you would look for while not pushing the flavor and the taste range to the very back of the palate, which is where we all taste bitterness. I don't get that bitterness really.

I get that viscosity. You're talking about the oiliness of the stuff, the complexity of this bourbon. You sip on it, you get a little bit of something out of every sip. You're talking about baking spices. I get a little bit of that clove in there. That right there, a little bit of cinnamon. It's like everything is a perfect package in Maker's Mark. I know we are listeners. Some of them are giant fans. One of them knew we were coming down here today. He's like, can I go with you? And I said, no, I'll bring my wife with me this time.

Well, let's have them next time. We love sharing what we do with our friends.

Some beautiful whiskey. Now you told me before we started that you actually stepped away from the distillery as a young man, went to college and went and learned the business somewhere else.

I was afforded the opportunity and was encouraged by both my father, Bill Samuels Jr., and my grandparents to work here alongside our team during the summers. I lived with my grandparents in Bardstown, and I cherish those memories where I had the opportunity to work every single position in the distillery, even with print and hand-tear labels here on site, hand-dipped bottles, was even a tour guide for a period of time. But living the industry, was something I'll always cherish. While at the same time after I graduated from university, I'll never forget it because I was very nervous about the idea of asking my father for a job. And you know, he actually encouraged me to get outside the shadows of Maker's Mark and outside the shadows of Kentucky to find out if I truly love the industry. Because it's a very different idea to think about having an affection for something that the family had created and sort of respecting the family legacy. But do you want to make it your life's work is a very different question. And I really enjoyed the idea of getting outside Maker's Mark, working at a different company in our same industry. And what I proved to myself was that I do have You know, I love this industry and wanted to commit to it for my entire career. And, you know, I never wanted my father to feel like he had to hire his son. So my goal was to be, was to be invited back, which finally happened after working for this other company for 11 years.

Now, your family, you said before that they had a rich history in Bourbon, and a lot of people wouldn't tie some of the families together. But T.W. Samuels, he would be your, I guess, would it be your- Four great-grandfather.

Our family has made whiskey for hundreds and hundreds of years. We actually trace our lineage all the way back to Samuel, Scotland, which I've been to. My dad and I visited Samuel, Scotland in the late 1980s, very much a small rural farming community. We know that our family had distilled from grain as far back as the late 1500s, migrating to this country, settling first in Pennsylvania in the late 1600s. They brought with them their knowledge for farming. and their passion for distilling. Many farmers at that time would distill. The distill was almost a piece of farm equipment. My namesake, Robert Samuels, we have documentation where he actually made whiskey for Washington's Revolutionary Army. in the late 1700s. It was that very 60-gallon still that his son Robert would bring when he left Pennsylvania after the Whiskey Rebellion. He settled on a land grant in 1774. It was just a handful of years later when much of that area of Virginia would become the Commonwealth of Kentucky. We've made whiskey ever since. Here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, I'm actually the eighth generation of the Samuels involved with making whiskey.

That's pretty neat that you can trace your lineage back that far and look at it as far as bourbon goes. Probably the first people to pour whiskey into a barrel and age it, because Rob Samuels back in the day wasn't pouring whiskey in a barrel. They were just making it. and giving it to soldiers is ration, right?

That's right. I mean, even in the early days of the T.W. Samuel's brand, the whiskey was made on site at the distillery and taverns and saloons would be provided a decanter and they would fill the decanter directly from the barrel. We had at one point of more than a century, we had two distilleries in what is today Samuel's, Kentucky. And my grandparents, who had met at university, They, upon graduating, would work with my great grandfather, Leslie Samuels, and build a new distillery on the site of the T.W. Samuels distillery. Now, all the documentation I've seen would suggest it was the fifth distillery to reopen after Prohibition was repealed. And together, my grandparents and great grandfather led the T.W. Samuels distillery, coming out of Prohibition for more than a decade. I just think while they were respectful of a family legacy, they saw the T.W. Samuel's brand in many ways for what it was. There was very little connoisseurship or refinement at that time in American whiskey and bourbon, and they didn't believe in it. So at that time, they were actually living on Whiskey Row, Third Street in Bardstown. We're living next to the Beams. The many titans of the industry were their closest friends. And I do think there was almost a sense of disappointment or an expectation that they needed to uphold the family name and make the family whiskey. But they chose to move in a different direction just because they wanted to be a part of something that they believed in.

Now, a lot of people don't know that T.W. Samuels was the high sheriff in the county, right?

Three-time high sheriff of Nelson County. And so he was a distiller. He had a working farm of almost 18,000 acres. And he was the three-time high sheriff. My great grandfather was actually, in addition to being a whiskey maker, he was the mayor of Bardstown.

So your history is here. There's nowhere else to go, really. You know, your family's name is respected. You're respected throughout the bourbon culture and community. You know, it's almost I'm in amazement to even be sitting in this room because, you know, I'll walk in here and there's there's wheat all over the place in here, different varieties of wheat. There's

This is our one and only conference room at the distillery. This is where it all started. This is where my grandparents would make their vision a reality. He would sit at this very table and taste his whiskey over time. Once he had broken down each and every step of the process, they placed the first barrels in the warehouse in 1953, and then they would wait. My dad actually shared with me not too long ago a piece of bourbon trivia. I've not gone back to actually validate it, but he's usually right. But coming out of prohibition between the mid-1930s all the way up to 1990, how many new distilleries, new licensed distilleries were created here in Kentucky? And you read about new ones almost every day today. I think there's nearly 70 licensed distilleries that are operating here in Kentucky today. But between the 1930s and 1990, I think there was only one.

And it was Maker's Mark.

And there was this really awesome moment of almost recognizing that the founding vision for what would become Maker's Mark was responsible for so much more than creating one brand. In Food and Wine magazine, it was about 18 months ago, they brought together this group of whiskey lovers and whiskey writers, brand owners, master distillers. That small group of really credible whiskey leaders ranked what they viewed to be the 25 most important brands of bourbon that have ever been made, and all but two recognized Makers Mark. And it's so ironic that you have someone in my grandfather who was not commercial. He never had a business ambition, but he ended up in many ways helping change the future of what bourbon would become as a category.

Well, he definitely stood out to me. He took weeded bourbon. might've been not lost at the time, but it definitely, it already had a name, right? A lot of people know Pappy Van Winkle, but before that W.L. Weller, the giants of weeded bourbon, and he placed himself and your grandmother right next to them, truthfully. And he really did become the weedy king of Kentucky. I always say I am because I drink so much of it, but he really was innovative at the time and saying, Hey, I got this product and want to start it out. And you could walk into any bar in the world pretty much.

Today, we look back and you do see maker's mark on backbars from here in Kentucky through the country. There's real demand and interest outside Kentucky and outside the US. This was a floundering brand for many, many years. They had waited several years for those first barrels to mature over time. They never sourced whiskey, so they patiently waited for their own bourbon to age over time, which is quite unique. Keeneland Racecourse purchased the very first six cases of Maker's Mark that were ever sold. So to many of us here in Kentucky, Keeneland is the cultural epicenter of thoroughbred racing, and Keeneland purchased the very first six cases. And I think even today, Keeneland, for a single location, purchases more Maker's Mark than any account anywhere in the world. And they're only open, what, seven weeks a year? We'll be there on Saturday and look forward to that. This was a floundering brand, and were it not for Kentuckians, so here in the home of bourbon, thankfully Kentuckians were open to the idea of a more elevated bourbon. And were it not for Kentuckians, Maker's Mark never would have survived because the market was in a very different place. At that time, the market had its rightful place on the bottom shelf. But there was this pivotal moment for us when the Wall Street Journal center column front page would tell the story in the early 1980s of this quirky little distillery in Marion County, Kentucky that goes against the grain to make its mark. And the Wall Street Journal said Maker's Mark is a model of purposeful inefficiency. which is exactly the way our founders thought about everything. Their goal was never to be the biggest or the most efficient. Their guiding light was all this rich, full-flavored taste profile, and then to express those values of what handmade would mean to their vision through the expression of printing and hand tearing labels, hand dipping bottles, and the human full sensory engagement through each step of the process.

step back for a second. For some of our listeners out there across the world, across the United States, if you don't know what Keeneland is, Keeneland is over in Lexington, Kentucky. It is to me, one of the grandest racetracks. Even though you've got Churchill Downs set in the center of downtown Louisville, houses all the way around and stuff, Keeneland in Lexington is surrounded by fields and fields and fields of green Kentucky bluegrass. Just a beautiful race track.

It was a big bold vision. Keeneland was actually created during the depths of the depression by some of the really notable horse legacy horse racing families in Kentucky. And they wanted to elevate what it would mean for experience in horse racing in Kentucky. And And I think there's so many parallels with Makers Mark Beyond, Keeneland being our very first customer. We were ahead of our time by many, many years, that just consumers weren't interested in a more premium experience. And thankfully, that started to change in the early 1980s. And we credit professional bartenders and leading chefs from some of the most famous restaurants that thankfully, over time, would seek out um, ingredients and items that had, had more flavor, more character. Um, and since then we've sold every single drop we've had available every single year since the 1980s.

Well, is it the red wax that everybody sees? You can see it about a mile away when you see it on a bar shelf and you're like, you're trying to think, Hey, what bourbon would like to try and that red wax just keeps Kind of drawing you back. It's like, come here, come here, give me a taste and I'll show you some magic. And I'll tell you what, um, you poured me a big old healthy pour of this maker's mark cast strength. Um, and my glass is almost empty and we're almost at the end of our first half. But that would show proof to power right there that the Weedy King of Kentucky here loves his weeded bourbon. The only knock on it, and I already told you this, was the bottle itself. But you explained it to me why you guys changed the bottle to lower the price point so more people could enjoy it. I just love that little squatty decanter bottle. It's super beautiful. I actually still have one. It's open. I try to cherish that thing.

This was feedback we received directly from the most professional bartenders who had so much respect for what Makers Marks stood for that wanted more flavor through proof and a cast-strength whiskey that they could choose in their signature cocktails. Cast-strength bourbon is not for everybody at a lower barrel entry proof. maker's mark from whiskey novices through the more sophisticated pallets, I think can all appreciate the founding vision that's reflected in every single drop of our cast-strength maker's mark. But this was direct feedback from great bartenders that wanted to showcase a cast-strength bourbon in their signature old fashions.

That's pretty awesome. I think, you know, you got that. It's still a great bourbon. The bottle doesn't make the bourbon. You could have a beautiful label on there. You could have that red wax. You could have all that, you know, great name on there. But when it really boils down to it, it's what's inside that bottle, right?

It's what's inside the bottle. And we want to listen to our customers. And through the pandemic, one of the groups that we have such a deep relationship with that's been so terribly impacted are the independent restaurant community of bartenders and servers. And I will never forget it because it was middle March a year ago when the governor of Kentucky made the very difficult decision to temporarily suspend on-premise accounts, bars, and restaurants. Chef Edward Lee, who's so highly regarded in culinary circles, has a signature restaurant in downtown Louisville called 610 Magnolia. That very night, we were able to partner with Chef Edward Lee, some of his team members, to transition his restaurant into a relief center. And one of the other bottles we have here on the table stands for that higher purpose that our team is so very proud of, which is in their time of need, we were able to serve the independent restaurant community and take the higher purpose that Ed Lee led from one single location in one city to 22 locations. And I think to Since the pandemic has unfolded, Makers Mark and other partners have been able to provide the resources to provide several million meals to bartenders, servers, and their families.

I actually have one of those community bottles. It's called the Community Batch.

It's the first time we've ever barrel vatted. Jane Bowie, who is our Director of Innovation in our team, worked with 30 or more leading restaurants who had each created unique expressions of Maker's Mark through the Private Select Custom Barrel program in celebrating unity of the industry through barrel vatting each of those unique combinations for a higher purpose. And every single dollar that was part of this release went to the cause. I think it's the only time in the history of our industry where 100% of the proceeds and the dollars associated from the customers went to the cause. This one release was able to generate, I think, $1.3 million for the Lee Initiative, which we're really proud of. Celebrating whiskey in a way that points out to that higher purpose.

Yeah, it's not all about stuffing your pockets with dollar bills, right? It's giving back to that community. The people that actually serve that bourbon to people, they were hurting in the pandemic. All the businesses got shut down, not just here in Kentucky, but throughout the United States, throughout the world and stuff. And at a time when I'm sure that it also hurt your guys' business, you gave back. And that says a testament to your family name and to the distillery itself. Rob, we're up on the first half. Um, some great bourbon. I'm expecting we'll get some more nice stuff on the second half. Um, and we're going to talk about your family's home in Samuel's, Kentucky. It is a Samuel's house and you guys have turned it in to an Airbnb or to bed and breakfast, but to a place people can stay, they can rent it and, uh, stay here on the bourbon trail and be part of history.

For us, it's where everything started. We've been blessed to be pretty good guardians of the family heirlooms of 240 years of whiskey making here in Kentucky. What would it look like to bring out some of the most important pieces so that when bourbon lovers would make that pilgrimage to Kentucky, not just walking through a museum-type experience, totally immersed in the most pivotal moments in this legacy of whiskey making as part of experiencing Kentucky culture.

Well, listeners, hang with us and you'll get to hear that story. There's some great history of that house, some great stories, some great Makers Mark stories, and you'll get to hear all that on the second half. We'll be right back.

Hey listeners, just a quick reminder that the bourbon road has been selected as a finalist and the people's choice awards on discover pods. We would love to have your vote and we've tried to make it as easy as possible for you. So just go to the bourbon road.com slash vote, click on the link and follow the instructions from there. We'd love to have your vote. We appreciate your support and thank you so much for believing in us and voting for us.

All right, listeners, we are back here at Makers Mark Distillery. Man, I'm just, I'm beyond myself. The Weedy King of Kentucky, sitting in here really with the Weedy Kings of Kentucky, some of the best bourbon on the face of the earth. And what does Rob Samuels pour for me? Our 2020 Bourbon of the Year, which was 46 cast strength. Now, listeners, if you don't know, 46 was the first bourbon released by makers mark and over 46 years and then the cast came out to honor.

My father, Bill Samuels Jr. My father, Bill Samuels, is a trained aerospace engineer, if you can believe that. He studied at Berkeley and got his graduate degree in physics. And there was this bit of a controversial moment when he was studying under one of the founders of NASA. And he and his little business cohort actually accidentally shot off a rocket inside of a building. Not intentional, but that was his last day ever as an aerospace engineer. And he would not long after come back, work alongside my grandparents in the late 1960s. He was president and CEO of Maker's Mark for four decades. And as he was nearing retirement, thinking about his legacy and the founding vision of his parents, my grandparents, up until that point, I think Maker's Mark was the only distillery maybe in the world to only make one product. As you know, so many bourbon distilleries make many, many different brands, line extensions, different variants. And our team here was obsessed year after year of staying consistent and true to the founding vision. And I'll never forget it because it was not long after I had returned to Kentucky, began to work alongside my father and the Makers Mark team. He started exploring the idea of creating his perfect expression of who Makers Mark could be. And in many ways, we started to break down the organoleptic flavor camps that defined who Makers Mark is at Cast Drink Straight in the Barrel. And he was very specific in wanting to figure out a way to accentuate the baking spices that live within Makers Mark. He was talking about this idea of a bigger, bolder expression of who Makers Mark could become, a little more vanilla. intensity, and he began exploration with the Boswells, who have made our bourbon barrels for three generations. Their cooperage here in Kentucky is nine miles up the road from us. And Brad, who's a third-generation barrel maker, on his business card, it actually says Wood Chef, not CEO, but his passion is flavor exploration from oak. And at one time with the Boswells, we had more than 100 different experiments underway at the same time, different wood finishing concepts. And everything was pretty damn good, where if you would have been with us and we went into the warehouse, we're opening barrels, You know you would have been smiling because everything was was really nice but he was waiting for the wow as he described it and the wow came when we tasted fully mature makers mark just over six years old. And that cast-strength maker's mark, having been finished with 200-year-old French oak that was seared in a proprietary way with radiant heat and then coming together at 52 degrees or cooler, and that finishing process he thought delivered against that taste vision. So, 46 is a nod to that specific proprietary finishing stave from French oak. Much like my grandparents, this whiskey was not inspired by marketing or an agency, but was at the center was a flavor vision. So to celebrate that legacy, we decided with great pride to actually two years ago release his expression of 46, but at a cast strength.

The nose on this thing is just fabulous. I mean, there's nothing else to say about it. It is, you take Maker's Mark, add a little bit more spice to it, a little bit full more floral, pour some carmel and pour some chocolate in, pour some oak and you got a amazing bourbon. It's all there.

It is. And it's got, it's got the weight in the body, more viscosity that he was seeking. And it has a longer finish without taking it all the way to the very back of the palette.

Well, let's drink this sucker. Cheers. Now you've kind of started something new. You got this house built in 1790.

We think the house was built in 1820, and it was my namesake, Robert Samuels, who had originally made whiskey for Washington's Revolutionary Army. His son Robert would bring that 60-gallon still with him when he would leave Pennsylvania after the Whiskey Rebellion and settled on a land grant. in what would become known as Samuels, Kentucky. His son, John Samuels, built this Georgian-style house in 1820. The house was in our family for 140 years or thereabouts. We had two working distilleries within walking distance of the house. The house, for whatever reason, got away from our family in the early 1950s. And it was, I'd always heard about this house because beyond the legacy of eight generations of whiskey making here in central Kentucky, we wanted to celebrate the legacy of the family and our connections to the James gang, which my four great grandfather, T.W. Samuels, who had created the T.W. Samuels distillery, he was the first generation that had commercially created a distillery and a unique brand. His first cousin, Reuben Samuels, was married to Frank and Jesse James' mother. Reuben Samuels was Frank and Jesse James' stepdad. Coming out of the Civil War in 1865, Frank and Jesse James and many of their group would spend quite a lot of time here in central Kentucky. And there was an organized surrender that happened in September of 1865. And it was Wilson Samuels, T.W. Samuels, my four great grandfather, who was the whiskey maker. He was also the high sheriff of Nelson County. And they were able to organize a formal surrender, which took place in the front yard of the Samuels house in 1865. And he was later pardoned so to go through all of the family legacy pieces and bring them all out and share them for the first time with. Urban lovers history lovers that wanna make the pilgrimage to kentucky and is part of how they experience. the Kentucky Bourbon Trail be surrounded by that legacy, which includes that actual Frank James pistol is displayed in the central hall of the Samuel's house. The pardon is on display. And then it was Wilson Samuels, two of his daughters actually married James gang members. and they stayed for a period of time on the third floor of this house. The escape hatch that they had cut into the roof should the law ever move in is still in existence. Bud and Donnie Pence, the brothers that married the Wilson Samuel's daughters, they were two of the most wanted men in the region. They at one point actually had to they went back to Missouri and would return. I think it was Donnie Pence who would replace T.W. Samuels in the late 1800s as the sheriff.

Wow. Their first bank robbery was in Russellville, Kentucky, not too far away, really. But your family tied to that, to outlaws, really. It's just amazing that all that history is there.

But now people can stay there, right? They can stay there. The house has just immense character in its own right. It is like stepping back in time. Foundationally, there's been zero settling. We added some modern comforts through a bit of a renovation, but we wanted to preserve the character and the authenticity of the house. When folks would travel to Kentucky, they would be able to spend time in the house. We have three couples actually staying for four nights this week. There was no central heat and air in the house, which we added. The original outhouse is still on the property. It's actually a three-seater, but we added some modern bathrooms, modern comforts that the Bourbon traveler would be really interested in. The kitchen is surrounded by 200-year-old brick. It's a modern chef's kitchen, so you can prepare dinner for your group there in the house. We've brought out two Stephen Powell glass art pieces. Stephen Powell, for those of you that are familiar with Stephen's legacy, one of the more prominent celebrated artists here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, And his only ever commissioned artwork in the history of his career was for us. And we brought out two of his glass installations. In the parlor, we've brought out many of the stories and some family pieces that tell the story of 240 years of whiskey making here in Kentucky. We actually have the authentic record that Robert Samuels had distilled in 1771 in Pennsylvania. We brought out the actual deep fryer where my grandmother had demonstrated to my grandfather this idea of celebrating handmade through individual human hand dipping of each and every bottle in red wax. Some of her pewter collection that was the inspiration for the name and making a mark as a craftsman on a handmade whiskey. commissioned a beautiful portrait of my grandmother that's over the mantle, and then bring out 70 or more bottles of whiskey that span 160 years of whiskey making. So you have this really prominent bar in the parlor, We secured these beautiful tufted leather sofas where you can imagine sipping on a glass of cast-strength 46 surrounded by Margie's deep fryer and the pewter collection. I found this collection of pieces. in my grandfather's closet just after he'd passed away. And we brought out some of the pieces that meant the most to him. And there was a personalized picture of Jerry Beam to my grandfather in the close-knit industry that he so cherished. So we brought out that picture of Jerry Beam. His two closest friends in life were Jerry Beam and Pappy Van Winkle. So we actually, I found a distilling guide that dates back to 1810 that was on site at the Stitzel Weller distillery that my grandfather had been gifted by Pappy Van Winkle.

Do you think that friendship with Pappy Van Winkle had any influence on your grandfather and grandmother deciding to go with a weeded bourbon?

Even to this day, one of the really special aspects of bourbon is the industry is so close. Yes, we compete on a certain level, but we work together for the betterment of bourbon and what it can mean for Kentucky. That was certainly true back in my grandfather's day. He lived the majority of his life on Whiskey Row in Bardstown. His closest friends were all of the industry leaders. And here in this very conference room, we celebrate those relationships. I mean, here on the wall, top left, is a picture of Pappy Van Winkle. One of the photos we framed and displayed in the Samuel's house is a picture from Pappy Van Winkle's 75th birthday party. But he was he was very close to the Shapiros was close to the beams Elmo beam was there had been the the master distiller at the TW Samuel's distillery and my grandparents actually brought him out of retirement and he He was our first master distiller So we celebrate those were like those legacies and their relationships that helped contribute to who makers mark would become but still it shows it really that much hasn't changed today because the families

The bourbon industry still stays really close. We're talking in the break about your grandmother and her really being, I would consider her the first lady of bourbon, right? And she was also the first woman inducted to Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame, which is just an honor bestowed on the very highest in the industry, right? is I'm sure a lot of people in that room that night were so honored just to be there to see that happen and stuff.

I'll never forget it because I had the honor of accepting her Bourbon Hall of Fame nomination on behalf of the family. And Fred Minick, who is so highly respected, deservedly so, he was part of her induction. And he had written the book Whiskey Women, celebrating female leadership within the industry. And he had suggested to the group that day as part of her nomination that, in his opinion, Margie Samuels might be the most underappreciated figure in the history of whiskey. And one of the ways we honor her legacy is literally with a glass of whiskey in hand, just as you arrive to the Maker's Mark Distillery as a guest, you start the experience on top of the hill, overlooking the valley, where they would build the distillery and that's where she had the vision to think differently about what the place could be. And distilleries had almost always been designed by engineers who would obsess over optimizing function. And she said that if the place would celebrate the values of his handmade bourbon, that the place would become the soul. And they didn't like marketers. I mean, they thought traditional marketing, this idea of screaming the loudest to connect with a guest, was almost rude. And there's no more endearing way to connect with a friend than to have them to your home. So she envisioned and designed every single aspect of the distillery, the Victorian village, the dark brown color scheme to celebrate the color of the whiskey, the cream trim around the doors to celebrate that we print and hand tear every single label that's ever been on a bottle. And then celebrating the finished handmade touch of hand dipping each bottle through those red shutters with the bottle cut out. But everything we do today, and while Maker's Mark started with humble beginnings, is oftentimes referred to as the first craft to still read America, every single decision that we make from the innovation and the expressions, including Maker's 46 cast strength, through the experience that we share with our friends, is entirely inspired by our founding vision.

Let me ask you this. We're talking about the house and we're talking about your family legacy and all the history that goes into Maker's Mark. I always ask this opposite of other distilleries that don't have a wheat. I already know the answer to this, but can you ever see Maker's Mark having a rye bourbon or a rye whiskey?

I don't think you ever say never. What I would say is Makers 46 celebrates spice as the rye whiskies and the rye bourbons are so interested in the flavor intensity through spice. But 46 allowed us to celebrate spice in a way that's very true to our founding vision. And that is something that our entire team here is really proud of because Are there a bunch of whiskeys if we were only ever really interested in just what could we do? Sure, there's a lot of things we could go do tomorrow morning if it was about increasing sales in the short term, but what should we do? and built on while my grandparents were not commercial people and they didn't have necessarily the business ambition that a lot of people do when they start something, they built one hell of a foundation. And one of the ways we stay true to that is only releasing expressions that are pioneering in the way makers was when it was first shared here in Kentucky. There is groundbreaking research underway right now across truly let's understand where flavor comes from. What is nature's influence on the whisky we make through partnering with academia on flavor exploration through oak? The University of Kentucky is actually mapping the reference genome of American white oak for the first time. So to think about a long-term, 100-year vision of, until the end of time, every American white oak tree will always be benchmarked against that 400-year-old mother oak here on Star Hill Farm. And then what's the influence of farming practices on the flavor potential within grain? And farm-to-table chefs and the agricultural community have hypotheses, but it's really never been proven. Just this growing season, we had 35 different varietals of modern wheats that we have grown here on site, a Starhill farm, working with soil scientists. And it's really energizing for our team, not just to imagine whiskies of the future that have that pioneering uh, foundation, but serving a higher purpose and everything we learn about sustainability of nature. We, you know, we, you know, we're sharing with, uh, with the industry.

So you, you hit it on the nail on the head there with the spice and the 46 and that's, um, what a rye drinker or a bourbon drinker would want in the 46 and the 46 cast drink. That spice is a little bit sweeter. But does it ever have a palace like, uh, like my cohost Jim always says it's pop rocks rolling across your tongue. You know, as a kid you got those pop rocks and I'm assuming me and you're about the same age or somewhere around there. So I know you know what pop rocks are as a kid. We get those and you put them on here and it just kind of pops. And that's what 46 does is gives you that just enough spice to where it's not overpowering. It's not going to kill your palate, but it reminds you, hey, I'm a Kentucky bourbon and I'm here to stay and I'm going to be long in my finish and I'm going to make you want more of me.

I actually have the tasting notes that my father articulated so clearly in the beginning as he started tinkering with different concepts. And it was exactly as you just described. It was, let's create a bigger, bolder expression. Let's make more weight, a little more body, enhance the viscosity that lives naturally within Maker's Mark, and then flavor exploration through my grandmother's spice cabinet. I thought you were about to say he wrote Pop Rocks on there.

That would have been pretty cool.

I think everybody knew what you mean, which is what's most important.

Yeah, yeah. So let's get back to this house. Some couples come in, they rent the house out, they get to see all that great history, get to stay in a beautiful home. Does that come included with tours and some dinners?

For the first few groups that make a reservation, like I'm actually hosting a group today, three couples that traveled here into Kentucky from outside the Commonwealth. And I love sharing the distillery with our groups. And that's what's really exciting is I can remember working here at the distillery, and it always seemed like we had a lot of guests. But the level of interest is so much higher than it ever was. And we're an open book here. You get to experience everything. We're completely transparent. And I get asked all the time with this Samuels family house and bringing out these irreplaceable family legacies, are you worried about swinging open the doors and letting folks actually spend the night and spend three or four days together on site in this legacy family home? And the answer is no. I mean, it's very much inspired by Margie's legacy of hospitality.

Well, it's probably going to cost you a little bit more than $5 to stay there, I would just imagine. And it's not like it's going to be a college frat party. To stay there, you're probably going to cost you, I wouldn't say a pretty penny, but it'll cost a little bit because you're buying that history, right? You're not just the home, but the history and the lineage of Maker's Mark and the family. The Samuel's family goes along that. Do you set out bottles of whiskey for them to try?

You know, my father, Bill Samuels, can be available to come out for a tasting. And all of those resources are actually donated to the female entrepreneurs program that we created and endowed on behalf of my grandmother, Margie Samuels. Chef Newman Miller, who was the chef in residence at Maker's Mark for almost seven years, was featured when Top Chef Shot the entire episode here on site at the distillery chef Newman Miller can be available for a paired cocktail dinner and tasting and It's it's a pretty magical place. I'm really proud of of what we've created. It very much celebrates and honors the family legacy. It honors the character and the history of the house, while also weaving in some really beautiful, comfortable, modern comforts.

They don't get you to come in and make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for me? We can be available. Can you whip up a peanut butter and jelly sandwich?

You know what we're leaving for each group? If you've ever had Jake's 150 sausage and there's a local farmer named Holly who has chickens, so every single group we leave a collection of items that are of the place. Beyond the whiskey, you can make breakfast from sausage that's from right here.

That's that personal touch you're looking for, to have your dad come in and lead a tasting, to have a world-renowned chef come in and cook dinner for you. And then have a local breakfast, some sausage and some farm fresh eggs. I mean, that's real, right? That's that family touch that you're looking for when you go to stay with your family.

Hospitality's been at the center of how we've always shared Maker's Mark. And when you think about what Kentucky means, it's all about the people. And the hospitality is something that Kentuckians have always done so well. So it's been fun for my dad and I to go through 240 years of the family legacy and bring out some of the more interesting stories that have never been told before. As an example, my great-grandfather, Leslie Samuels, was the owner of the T.W. Samuels Distillery. He was one of the first highway commissioners ever in the history of Kentucky. He actually died in addition to being the distillery owner. He was mayor of Bardstown and he was part of that central group that helped convince the Rowans to help endow their family estate to become Kentucky's first state park. We have a picture of Leslie Samuels on the Great Lawn of Mile Kentucky Home. The first morning, it became Kentucky's first state park. I have this awesome picture of Leslie Samuels, who his closest friend in life was Jim Beam. The Beams and the Samuels were very, very close. We're next-door neighbors for the better part of 70 years. I have this really fun picture of Leslie Samuels on the at the beach with the beams and Leslie Samuels is in a three piece suit and Jim beam is in one of those old time speedos. Great photo there. They had a, they had a, they had create, they were so close and not just next door neighbors. They had actually created a sidewalk in their backyards that connected their two kitchens. That's how, that's how much time they spent together going back and forth.

And is that how you kind of grew up with those families? They just, everybody kind of intermingled and

You know what I remember is you live the industry. It's not something you ever turn off. And you think about hospitality and the idea of opening the doors of our Samuel's family legacy home. But I remember my parents, they would host groups for cocktails, you know, three or four nights a week. You know, I had a fundraiser at my house a week before last. So this is something we've always done and is really, really fun for us to bring out the family legacy pieces in a moment in time when what it means to customers is so powerful.

Yeah, as we're sitting here, I'm watching tours walk by through the window there. You know, to me, we were talking in the break about hospitality and how Kentucky is so great at that, how great Kentucky is as opening arms to outsiders and saying, come on home to Kentucky and stuff. And that's how me and my wife feel when we moved here. We feel like we're at home. People have greeted us. It's a Southern thing. It's not something that you can go to college for, right? It's, yes sir, no ma'am, thank you, we'll see you again, come on back. All those things, butter your biscuits, whatever you want to say.

It's the people that make it matter. And this is such an exciting moment to have. We host people every day here that can go anywhere and do anything and are choosing to come to Kentucky and experience the layers of the defining culture of the Commonwealth, whether it's spending an afternoon at Keeneland, the music, the food, the whiskey, and how it all comes together.

Rob, man, thank you for your hospitality. You set me down. You let me come in this amazing room. I'm looking around just at all the history, all the great whiskey in here. I keep looking over at this decanter above your grandfather there. I'm wondering what whiskey that is in that amazing decanter.

That's Maker's Mark. And that was the first whiskey award that he ever submitted and thankfully received the first place recognition. And that dates back to the very late 1970s. Oh, man.

To me, to see all this is just amazing. To get to hear the story is amazing. And I can't thank you enough for having the Bourbon Road in here, opening your arms to us. We can't say thank you enough.

Thanks for everything you've done to help provide a really beautiful window into whiskey and culture and the stories. This has been so much fun for our family to open up our Samuel's Family Legacy home. We've hired someone who's actually going to be the guest relations manager. Her name is Missy and we've created a website called www.thesamuelshouse.com, but just look forward to folks being able to experience Kentucky through what is a really, really special legacy that we love to celebrate.

Now, where else can they find The Samuel's House on social media?

There's the Samuels House on Instagram and Facebook and the website, and Missy is available. We have a phone number where folks can call directly and ask any specific questions that they would have. My father's actually, he's going out tonight to take the group through the live storytelling and bring it all alive through hosting them for a session at the house.

Well, heck, maybe you'll have the Bourbon Road guys out there one night to host a session and stuff, and that would be something awesome. I'd love to do that. Well, Rob, once again, thank you. Trust me, hopefully this won't be our last visit to Maker's Mark. Hopefully we can sit down with Denny and Jane and talk about the future of Maker's Mark and where else it's going to lead us.

I'm sure they would love that.

Yeah. So listeners, give us a listen. If you want to book that tour, you want to book that visit. Do it now before you visit. Don't just show up here. There are some COVID protocols they have to go through to get you in the doors. Those tours book up fast, so make sure you do that. If you want to go to the Samuel's house and stay, check out their website. Make sure you make your reservations way in advance, because I know they're already booked up for several months. I think it would be awesome if you'd come see me, Big Chief, at the 2022 Kentucky Bourbon Festival and you're staying at the Samuel's house. I think that'd be pretty awesome. So you know what we say, you can find us on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, all the places you can do social media. You can find us there. We'd also like you to become one of our bourbon roadies on Facebook. That's our private Facebook group. 2,300 people strong and growing every day. We've got three easy rules to become a member. You've got to be 21. You've got to love bourbon. Hell, who don't like bourbon, right? And you've got to agree to play nice because we just don't tolerate any rudeness. We want everybody to get along. If you drink from the bottom of the shelf to the top of the shelf, we want you to celebrate that, celebrate life, celebrate retirement, celebrate birthdays. You name it, we want you to celebrate it. Come in there and have a honest discussion with us and have a good time. So check that out. We do two shows a week. We do our craft of celery Mondes. Sometimes we'll do a big boy, but that's about a 20 minute show where we just kind of pick a part of bourbon, tell you about it, whether it's worth buying or not. And we go on about our way. The next thing we do is our hour long show. We have great guests on like Rob Samuel's on today. It's an hour long show. It'll get you to working back. Um, we want you to listen to that. So to find out how to listen to us or how to get the episodes every day, we want you to scroll on up to the top of that app. hit that check mark hit that plus sign hit that subscribe button that way you know the bourbon row guys are on they got a new episode they got a new guest on they got a new review on so we want you to do that After you do that, you want to scroll on down. You know what I'm about to say, right people? Come on listeners. We want you to hit that five star review because you know it'll happen. If you don't, the big bad booty daddy of bourbon is going to come to your house. He'll be hauling some 46 castings, some makers mark castings. We're gonna drink all night long on some bourbon by the end of the night We're gonna have two empty bottles and we're gonna have a five-star review because you're gonna be happy with a bourbon road We'll have one hell of a conversation. So please give us that five-star review. It opens up doors to distilleries It gives us great guests and we can't thank you enough for it Hey, don't forget to join us on the 21st of October at the Rippey House in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky, where we'll be talking about the bourbon boom and how social media and media outlets like podcasts have influenced that bourbon boom. You can also come see us on the 23rd of October in Frankfort, Kentucky at Bourbon on the Banks. We'll have the Bourbon Road Lounge sponsored by Woodinville Whiskey Company. Come out, hang out with us, have some whiskey with us. We'll have a great time. So you can always reach out to us and leave us comments. You can send us emails. Jim at The Bourbon Road, Mike at The Bourbon Road. But the best way to find us is on Instagram. Jim is jshannon63 on Instagram. I'm OneBigChief, and we'll see you one down the Bourbon Road.