37. Big Chief's Southern Bourbon Adventure Part 2

You're right. I was like, I stick my finger in there. I want to taste what it tastes like.

Yeah.

Because bourbon, to me, is one of the best things you can put inside apple pie. Oh man, that's what makes them good. Apple pie and a good bourbon together. Man, there's nothing better. And a warm fire in the winter. That's American.

That there is American.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Log Heads Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Find out more about their fine rustic furniture at logheadshomecenter.com. Hello, I'm Jim Shannon. And I'm Mike Hyatt. And this is the Bourbon Road. And Mike, this is your road trip part two.

Part two of it, yeah.

Yeah, so we did three distilleries last week. Yep. This week we're doing three more. Yeah. Kind of excited to hear about these because you brought me back some bottles. I did. Man, I'm the big winner here. Well, you're the big winner.

Well, trust me, I was the big winner. Trust me, you know, you're going to come over to our house and we're going to try every one of those bottles that I got.

Absolutely.

I gave you two ryes out of all the picks, especially the one we're going to drink today. You know, the owners of that distillery, they were like, hey, we know your co-host is a big rye whiskey guy. and we'd like you to have a bottle of this. So, you know, I brought it back to you. Beautiful bottle, right?

It's a beautiful bottle. Comes in a tube, a lot like the H. Taylor tube, you know? Yeah. Beautiful.

I think some people are trying to do that today. More beers are coming out like that than whiskies, but some people are putting those in those tubes. Yeah. Why did the H. Taylor put it in a tube like that? I don't know.

I don't know what the answer is to that, but they've been doing it a long time.

Was it to keep the bottle from busting maybe?

You know, I think it was just to set it apart as a higher quality kind of product. You know, it gave it that look like the care was taken at packaging and, you know, Colonel Taylor was very proud of what he did. Yeah. And I'm guessing the fellas over at Rocktown are just as proud.

Oh yeah. So that's what we're drinking today is a Rocktown single barrel rye whiskey cast strength. It's 125 proof. Um, it's got some dark caramel to it's 35 months old. Um, and I think that's when you were talking about it before we started, uh, probably because of that Arkansas heat down there in the summertime.

Yeah. So, you know, we're not drinking this because it's our favorite or it's the best. It's, it's just one that we chose to have. to sip on.

Just something to sip on while we're talking about the old trip down that bourbon road, right?

Right, right. So we don't want our other guests to feel like we singled out Rocktown, but we just grabbed a bottle and said, hey, let's sit down with this one.

Yeah. Well, because I like rye. So instead of saying cheers to you, I would say Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

That's right. This is our Christmas show. This will release on Christmas Day.

Yeah. So if you're out there listening to us, sit down and grab yourself a bottle of bourbon. or some rye whiskey or whatever whiskey you like to drink and sit down and listen. Give us a listen why everybody's opening up stuff or everybody's busy making that Christmas dinner. Sit down and listen to this episode and hopefully you enjoy it. We definitely appreciate our listeners, I think, supporting us throughout the year. This has been our first year, really half a year for me, but I think it's been a great year.

It has been a good year. We've grown a lot. We've got a good core following of listeners and I think our format is pretty solid. We've got some ideas for next year, some things we might change up a little bit, but I think that we've had some great guests. I'd like to do a show, Mike, at some point where we sit and we look back at the past year and we say, who we had on and what were the Bourbons? What was our favorites and stuff? We haven't really planned that episode, but I think that's something we ought to do.

Oh yeah. Well, I think we'd get a whole entire year under the belt.

Yeah.

And do that. That would be our year in review right there after, after 52 or 54 episodes. Yeah. I always get those, I always get those weeks mixed up in a year.

Well, this is episode 37, so we're not too far off. We're getting there. We're getting there. Well, Mike, let's go ahead and get to this, this rye, not this bourbon, but this rye. It's rye whiskey. Let's talk about it. Cheers. Cheers. Merry Christmas. Wow. That is, that stuff packs a punch. What would you say the proof on it was? 125.

125. Wow.

And this is a single barrel rye, very dark. This, uh, this reminds me of the color of like a old Forester 1910.

It's a, you'd almost think it was double barreled or something. Right. Um, but that Arkansas heat, um, you know, a kind of cool thing about this and we'll talk about that in episode that they play rock and roll music to their, to their bourbon in there. It's just thumping. Yeah. That's called rock town. Yeah. There you go.

So this is, uh, this is now, do they use smaller barrels or use normal size barrels or?

Yeah, they're using 53, 35 and 15 gallon barrels.

So we don't know which one for this particular.

It's got a sweetness to it too, doesn't it? Yeah, it does.

Yeah, this has got, um, For me, it's like dried plums, kind of dark. The oak is definitely, you know, you get a lot of the oak and the tannins on the back.

That dried fruit there is like a almost, man, I want dried, dried plum, you know, maybe a date or something like that. It's definitely sweetness. To me, this is almost like that Sagamore, but I'll tell you what, it's got some sweetness to it for me.

And I like that.

Yeah. No, I'm not the old rye guy here, but I definitely sip on this.

It's definitely got some cloves to it. Reminds me a little bit of that, a glazed ham, clove glazed ham kind of that's been really, really cooked. Oh yeah. A lot because it's got, I mean, it's got some, it's got some char. It's got some oak, a little bit drying, but I think it's good.

Now this was non-chill filtered. So, you know, maybe that adds to it a little bit.

Kind of hard to believe that this is only 35 months old, but I guess that, uh, that Southern weather just.

Yeah. If you ever been down to Arkansas, it does get nice and hot down there. That'd be a, you know, North of Texas almost a little bit. When you get, once you get up in the little rock area at Oklahoma, like if you drew a straight line across there, but still, that's a beautiful whiskey.

What do you think about the finish on that?

It's not drying, you know, like I would think it would be like a ride. It's got some, It's got pepper on the back end.

Got a little bit of a hug. The flavor punch doesn't stick around a really long time. So I would say it's a medium finish. Um, but there's, you know, the alcohol for being 125 proof, I don't think it's overpowered by ethanol.

No, not at all, but nose on it definitely isn't like that.

If I were to drink this blind and somebody were to ask me to guess at the age, I would probably go definitely higher in three years.

If it was Kentucky, you'd definitely think that, right?

Yeah, not knowing where it's from. When you're looking at the color and tasting it, it definitely seems a lot older.

Yeah, maybe they have that advantage, like, you know, you think of scotch, you know, it takes, how long does it take to make a good scotch?

That's probably for the scotch experts to answer, but scotches definitely age a lot slower than bourbons do. Because their weather's different.

Right. So you go down south and you try to make some whiskey down there and it'll take a while. Yeah, so that's what we're drinking today.

All right. Well, I did want to mention something, Mike, before we get into your first interview, and that is send out another invitation to our listeners to pop into Facebook and visit the Bourbon Roadies. It's our closed Facebook group. I think we're up to about 60 or 70. members now, and there's some good conversation going on in there. So, you know, come to our Facebook page, the Bourbon Road, go into our group, the Roadies, we'll ask you three quick questions. And that's just to make sure that you're of drinking age and that you know where you're going to. That's about it. Yeah, it's pretty good. I'm really enjoying that. It's starting to take off now. It's a little slow in the beginning, but I think it's picking up.

I think people will be surprised that we have listeners in there, or roadies that are from all over the world. We got a couple guys from Australia now and they like to comment on stuff. Obviously we got some people from Louisville, Kentucky. But we got people all over the United States, people out in California, people from Texas. So come on in there and let's have a conversation.

And we're pretty active in there, so you'll see us.

Almost every day, we try to be in there.

So Mike, who do we have for our first stop on this week's road trip?

Well, you know, I thought Vivian and I were going to get on the road that next morning.

So let's, let's backtrack a little bit. So last week on the episode, you finished up in New Orleans.

We finished up in New Orleans, a seven, three distilling. And I mean her left that day. And we actually, you'd asked me last week if I'd went to Felix's and we did go to Felix's, uh, has some oysters, you know, I mean, Vivian are big oyster fans. Um, and then we, uh, we met some old Coast Guard friends that are stationed there in New Orleans. Um, met them for dinner and ate at Acme oyster house. Um, before we went out though, We're in our hotel bar there. Hotel St. Marie has a little bar restaurant and I saw this guy wearing a purple hard hat. So I bought him a drink and he came over and like two veterans would always do. We started up a conversation and talking about each other and our lives and turned out the guy owned a dang distillery up in South Dakota.

Go figure.

As soon as I said, Hey, I got a bourbon podcast. I'm a cohost on a bourbon podcast. He was like, really? So, uh, Eldon Nygaard, um, he owns clay town, clay Turner bourbon up in, up in South Dakota. And next morning I got up and I interviewed him. The nice, the cool thing about this guy is he is a combat veteran. And we sat down and drank his bourbon that he had in a wine bottle because he's going on a cruise for his daughter's wedding honeymoon. I guess the whole family was going. But we sat down that next morning in the, uh, restaurant there, a little noisy. Um, so the audio wasn't that great, but I felt it was important to get this, this American hero on our show and talk to him and get his bourbon out there. So if people are driving out to South Dakota, they're going out to Sturgis, South Dakota, they're going out to Wyoming. They're going out that way. I need to stop by and try some of this juice.

So there may be a little bit of noise in the background, but we'll make sure we clean up that audio up enough so people can at least understand what's going on. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, Mike, let's hear it.

Let's do it.

All right. Hey, this is Big Chief from the Bourbon Road. And I know I told all of our listeners that the next time you hear me, it'll be in Texas. As many of you know, whenever you're on a trip and you never can tell who you're gonna run into. And last night, me and my wife are setting in a bar in downtown New Orleans. And I see a guy wearing a hat that has a purple heart on it. And I told the bartender that, hey, I'd like to buy his drink for him because he's a purple heart recipient. So she bought his drink and he came over and thanked me for buying his drink. And ever we started up conversation like two military veterans probably would anywhere. And I was lucky to find out that he owns a distillery. So today, uh, this morning I was sitting down with the elder night guard, uh, South Dakota state Senator retired, um, a combat veteran of 34 years, uh, shot, shot down four times in Vietnam.

Yeah.

um, flew 1000 missions that that's pretty awesome and purple heart recipient. I, I first, I, Eldon, I'd like to thank you for your service. The thing about Eldon is Eldon owns a distillery up in South Dakota and, uh, you actually have a bourbon up there. Yes. Uh, we just, uh,

I don't always do that. Well, that's a good way to start the breakfast, right?

Breath of fresh air, though, when you smell that bourbon. It is.

Yeah.

So your bourbon is called Clay Turner Strait South Dakota. South Dakota Strait Bourbon Whiskey.

Yeah.

And the name comes from the two counties, one where your distillery is. That's in Clay County. We distill it and we

and we raise it all wheat, rye, bourbon, bourbon, barley, it becomes bourbon. And then corn, all of the ingredients that go into our bourbon are raised on our farm in Turner County.

Now this bourbon, Clay Turner, is a really a four-grain bourbon.

It's got 52% corn. Our mash bill is 52% corn. and the malting barley that we use in the process of fermentation is our own single row non-genetically modified malting barley that we raise. We retain that seed, very rare seed, from a seed repository up in North Carolina State University.

That's pretty awesome that you're doing everything in-house and you're really researching it. But you've already had a storied life, right? I've done a few things. You did a few things. I've been in a few rodeos, I guess. Well, that's awesome. Let's taste this. Cheers. Cheers. I'll tell all my listeners that, you know, when you swirl this around the glass and you look at the legs on this, it's got some legs on it for a two-year-old bourbon. It definitely tastes sweet. I can taste that wheat in it, but on that back end there's a little bit of punch to that rye whiskey. Yeah, so there's a little pepper to it and caramel. Get some caramel out of that. Yeah, I think it's a good bourbon for a two-year-old. Now, is your plan to let it go beyond two years in the future?

Our bourbon process, this has just begun. We wanted to see if we could make a good bourbon. I think we proved that we can with sales on the shelf in our grocery stores, liquor stores back in South Dakota at anywhere from $39.95 to $49.95. So they like it in South Dakota. We're going to experiment it with, we've got a new aging barn, we're converting a a bandstand that we use for entertainment. We're gonna totally enclose it with a roll-up like garage door so we still have the band in the center of it and we'll be able to put a couple hundred barrels around the back. Sure, we'll have some rock and roll aging of these, of our bourbon in the future.

I've heard all kinds of people do different stuff and you know, heard people raise plants and music, so why not raise some bourbon up with it, right? This is a true small batch, only two barrels, right? You use 53-gallon barrels out of Springfield, Missouri. Springfield, but worldwide, Coopridge, Missouri. I think that's a pretty delicious bourbon. It's a stone-faced distillery here in South Dakota after Mount Rushmore, right? Yeah. That's what it's named after. So, Eldon, I appreciate you coming on today with me and sitting down here. I know you're a busy man. You're going on a cruise with your wife and family. Congratulations on the wedding of your daughter. Well, thank you. I know that's always a festive time and stuff. And we'll see you on down at Bergen Road. All right. Thank you very much, Mike.

Well, that goes kind of a fortunate event there for meeting up with Eldon in the, in the hotel.

Yeah, man. I'll tell you what, it just, those, uh, the gift of gab always say is, you know, I think when we met, you said, Hey, you got that gift, that gift of gab. And, um, sometimes it, it, it benefits me. Opens a few doors. I think it sure does. Yeah.

Well, I mean, he's a very interesting guy. Definitely been around for a while and he's got himself a distillery and served his country and, you know, sacrificed for his country too.

Oh, yeah. They got some wine up there for people to taste too though. Do they?

Yeah. Well, maybe one of these days we'll get up South Dakota and we'll stop in and say hey to him and do a tour and hang out with him for a little bit and that'd be nice. Yeah. All right, so Mike, who do we have next on our trip?

Well, so me and Vivian, after we talked to Eldon and we got on down to Bourbon Road and we drove, we're driving over to Shreveport, Masson Station, Barksdale Air Force Base, and he's on a B-52 bomber crew there where he works on the B-52s. It just so happened that Shreveport's about halfway from my mom's house in Texas. And that's Tyler, Texas is halfway point. So I found a distillery there, obviously, so we could have some lunch together. I went to the distillery at Keepersall. They are a large vineyard in Texas. They grow all their own grapes and they got a large ranch there. They kind of one stop shop. They got a bed and breakfast. They got a distillery. They got a winery. You got all kinds of stuff. I was just shocked a bed and breakfast so you can stay the night. If you want to have a couple of drinks, it's just a kind of great place to halfway place to meet. So, uh, I sat down with the owner of the vineyards and the distillery, Marnell Durret. They've been open since 2013, and they have some great bourbon.

Do they really?

Yeah. And they named it after Jim as their master stiller, Marnell's husband, and his dad was a World War II bomber pilot.

Oh, cool. Kind of fits in with my son, right? Yeah, yeah. His name was Jimmy.

He's got a great story about him and stuff. And the whole time he's in World War II flying around in his bomber, he had a bottle of bourbon with him. It was more for trading if he got shot down or if he needed some stuff over there, he could trade it. But at the end of the war, you'll hear a story on this podcast. He did trade that bottle of bourbon to a woman on a beach for a record. comes all the way back home from the Pacific and, uh, puts that record on. Do you imagine excitement the whole time? Not being able to hear that record. And that's gonna be some good music right here. And he puts that on the record player, that vinyl record and it was blank. Oh my goodness. Yeah. But they got some great, they got two expressions of bourbon there. They got some other stuff too.

And the name of the distillery is?

The distillery at Keepersaw.

The distillery at Keepersaw. Okay.

Yeah.

So they got Jimmy's bourbon and then they got Jimmy's 100, which is a hundred proof. They do all 53 gallon barrels. Maybe in the future they're going to have some 30 gallon barrels. It's all single batch. It's all made by them. Probably one of the most impressive distilleries I've ever been to where I can tell, you know, everything's right there. Their bottling line's right there. Rick House is right there. Everything is. They're there. And their bourbon's four years old. It's a good Texas bourbon. I thought a lot of it. And I got a great story.

Yeah. So let me ask you a question. You're in Texas. I hear well or grows on trees in Texas.

Is that true? Not that I could find. Um, and I actually, you know, a couple of people was like, Hey, can you stop give me some wellers in Texas? And I think maybe in central Texas, but I was over in East Texas and we stopped at a couple of places and I didn't find a single bottle nor did I find any good bourbon really. Uh, you know, me and my son went into a couple of places and I'm like, where's all this bourbon at? You know, where's your bourbon at? And they'd have like a, I probably had a bigger collection than some of those liquor stores have. Um, but Hey, um, I tried if that old college tried and struck out, but I still got to visit a great operation. They are debt free, meaning they're paying for everything out of their own pockets, um, for this operation. And I love that.

Yeah, it's good to hear about a distillery that's done it the smart way, I guess. A lot of them say, you want to make a little money? You start with a lot of money, and you start a distillery.

Then you end up with a little money.

So I guess to have a distillery that's been able to stay debt-free the whole time and pay their way, that's good. That's awesome.

I mean, they've got other businesses and stuff, and I think that's how they're helping support this distillery. They're not taking any money from anybody else, you know, and they're living that American dream.

So the distillery at Keepersaw. The distillery at Keepersaw. Let's hear it. All right.

Hey, this is Big Chief coming to you from the Bourbon Road. And so we left New Orleans yesterday morning and we went over to Barksdale Air Force Base and dropped some bourbon off to my son. And now we took a two hour drive over to Tyler, Texas, and we're at the distillery at Keepersall. They're on a winery.

Yes, this is a wine estate.

And I'm with.

Hi, everybody. This is Marnell Durrett with Keepersall. I'm speaking on behalf of my husband today, since this is the guy's side of the world at Keepersall, the distillery.

So you're the winemaker.

I'm the founding winemaker.

Found and owner. Yes. She's the owner of this distillery though.

My sister and I own it. Yes. Yes.

And your husband's the master distiller.

And he's the master distiller.

But your husband's out doing some ranching today.

He is with the cows today.

Hey, sometimes we got to do that, right?

Yes. Yes.

So I always like to get straight to the whiskey. So what do you have for us? What's the first pour?

Today we only have two products in terms of bourbon and whiskey right now. And that is our Jimmy's 90 and our Jimmy's 100. There's a really cool story as to how the 100 gets developed and blended. And the Jimmy's 90 is our standard and it's what's in the marketplace.

Now who's Jimmy?

Jimmy is my husband's grandfather. So sadly he passed away in October, October 24th. He was 97 years old.

That's a good long life though, right?

Oh, he had an amazing life. Amazing guy. Learned so much from him. We have 10 year old twins and from the time that they were born until the time of his passing, my kids got to see him once. a week and got to play dominoes with Papa and learn about all kinds of fun things. He would tell great stories. He'd pick on my son a little and Papa would say, I'm not letting go until you say calf rope.

So Jimmy was a, your bottle has a pair of old aviator glasses on it. So Jimmy was an aviator.

He was, he was a torpedo bomber pilot and he flew off of aircraft carriers, um, off of the coast of Okinawa in World War II. And, uh, I guess it was about 2013, 2012, 2013. And we went to go have lunch with him and, uh, That particular day, we'd already started the distillery. We'd already working on the vodka. My husband talked my dad into, let's get the bourbon side going. We committed to making a whiskey. We showed up that day and we said, Papa, we're going to start making whiskey. And his response was, what? And I said, we're going to start making whiskey. Boy, do I have a whiskey story for you. And it started like so many whiskey stories. I mean, of his war stories, not whiskey. This is the only whiskey story. And it started with when I was deployed. And he says, when he says he has a story, we know to sit down, it's going to take a minute. So we did. And it did take a minute, but he told us about, And if you have any 90 year old relatives, 90 plus, 80 plus, 70 plus, it's fun to listen to history from your relatives and your friends and your family. And I happened to catch a little bit of this on my iPhone and recording him and came home and played it for my dad. He said when he was deployed, they were asked to bring a bottle of Jack or a bottle of Jim. They were asked to bring Wrigley's peppermint gum and as many cigars as they can get their hands on. He said when he heard this and his arms were frail, he goes, I was madder than a hornet because he thought that the commanding officers were going to haze them like like take advantage of their rank so that they can get some whiskey. Turns out it was a base in Oklahoma is what I understand. And when they left Oklahoma or when they got to Oklahoma, they said some of the fly guys that brought the stuff, you guys need to take your ammo bags because they were issued for ammo bags. But since they were pilots, they weren't going to be doing hand-to-hand combat and didn't need to fill them all with ammo. They said, take your silk scarf, wrap it around your bottle of Jack or Jim, stick it in the middle of the bag, put the gum around it, put the cigars on top and hang that bag on your seat in the cockpit. They said that that bag will become your barter bag. Those items hold more value in the South Pacific than American dollars or cigarettes. So if you get shot down behind enemy lines and live to tell about it, your bag will likely live too and could potentially save your life. So it was an awesome story. And when I got home, told my dad about the story and he's like, that's it. We'll name the bourbon jimmies. And I still get goosebumps telling the story because I heard that and he did trade it. to a pretty woman on the beach on his last flight and it was kind of like a story because he said, oh, one of the things he said was he'd be flying at night and he tried to stay awake and his mind would drift and he would think tour might be coming through, he would think about that bag of bourbon back behind the seat and he goes, I just pulled the bottle out, I'd unscrew it and I'd just sniff it and then I'd screw it back on. But he traded it for, this woman was on the beach and she had records that she was selling. and he could not wait to get the record home and play it. So he traded the whole bag, got the record, got on the ship, got home and had nothing on it. He goes, I was so mad because that bottle of urban flew with me.

To me, that resonates home because both me and Jim, both being in the military, we both say that even today, a good spirit, a good whiskey is still tradable overseas. Sometimes you're not supposed to have that in country these days or they frown upon it, but I guarantee you some guys or some guys' mamas send some bourbon to them. They still get traded a day. So this bourbon right here is 90 proof. I get a little of, and our listeners probably can laugh, but I still get a little bit of that licorice, a little bit of whorehound in it. Corn, like you said, corn forward.

Yeah, it's really corn forward and which Jim loves rice style. He likes the spice. some of his favorite. See, I'm, they say there's like a progression. I'm still the weeded. I like the weeded bourbons, but the Jimmy's has a sweetness and Jim says he wants to pull the sweetness from the corn and not so much the wheat where that wheat gives a little body, but he likes the sweetness and the spice. Um, so let's, let's taste this.

I'm already been tasting it, but cheers.

That's four years. And every bottle, every bottle that we produce, you're sitting in here in the barrel room with us. Sorry, that's wine maker talk, the rack house.

The rack house.

Yeah. So actually it's still part of the distillery, but whenever we have to make more bourbon, my husband wants it in those barrels as long as it can stay there. So if the distributor calls us, we'll get an order in and he'll call the guys like, we've got to come out of the vineyard or we've got to come out of the pasture or wherever it's time to bottle. They're going to come by and pick up barrels tomorrow. I mean, bottles tomorrow. Yeah. So it stays in those barrels as long as it can. So we are a single batch. This is literally single batch. So it's kind of neat. We were in the market yesterday and I can see some bottles. I want to taste, do a tasting of what it tastes like if it was bottled a year ago and it's the same label. Now we might be getting up to five year, six year already. But especially when we blend the Jimmy's 100, we know we can maintain that four-year age, and that's what we're working on.

Now, is there any plans in the future to age it longer and go to like six or even a 10-year-old?

He wants to do, we're going to keep some of them for 20 if we can.

Maybe do a bottled bond?

Absolutely.

Maybe old Big Chief will get a bottle of that, man. I'll tell you what. I've already made some friends for life here in Texas because I'm a big old Texas boy. So, the four-year-old 90-proof bourbon from Jimmy's, I think it's an excellent taste on it. I get the sweet. Oh, yeah. I love it. I love eating bourbon. Come on, look at me. I look like I love bourbon, don't I? I do get the sweetness from the corn. I get that pepper on the back a little bit of maybe white pepper. I get some cloves in it.

Clove. Clove in all spices is what I'm picking up right now.

Those bacon spices somebody hasn't smelled. Me and my wife were driving down the road the other day and I had said a bourbon had some nutmeg in it. And I was telling her, hey, write these notes down for me. And she's writing them down. She's like, you don't even know what nutmeg tastes like. And I was like, sure. She's like, whenever you had nutmeg. And I was like, well, I'll put some on an apple pie. Inside my apple pies I make. And she's like, God dang it, you're right. I was like, I stick my finger in there. I want to taste what it tastes like. Yeah. Because bourbon, to me, is one of the best things you can put inside apple pie. Oh, man. That's what makes them good. Apple pie and a good bourbon together. Man, there's nothing better. And a warm fire in the winter. That's American.

That there is American.

So yeah, you guys got this Jimmy's bourbon and then you, how long ago did you say you started in 2013?

2013. And we started, you know, people come here for wine tours and distillery tours. And it's like the big question is why are we in this little micro distillery in the heart of a wine estate? So it really was just a farmer life. There's a saying that a farmer always makes a plan, you know, And we're growing grapes, we're making wine, and that's our passion. Our passion is to grow something, produce something, and have it firmly founded and planted in a sense of place. So grapes were a niche. It's a niche. crop, essentially, and shifting to distilling, it all started with vodka. So how can we take these grapes, the wine that we cannot compete with on the global market in terms of quality and price? And we say can't compete. We had Zinfandel planted and know that we make a fantastic white Zinfandel. However, in the market right now, you can buy white Zin for $4.99 a bottle and white Zen drinkers aren't going to pay our $10, which is the best price you can get on the market for. So that's not a competitive product. We can't compete in the marketplace with that. What can we do with that to take it further? Our cost, the glass, the bottle, the foil, the cork, we've put $4.99 into that package due to scale of economies before we even put the product in. And the birth of this distillery was how can we take it from a non-competitive product to a competitive? product, which was, um, let's take it and make vodka out of it. And that's what opened the doors for distillation. And vodka is, is, is the, the door opener, the gate, it was the gateway to finding a spot for my husband's passion. And, um, I noticed you looked at established 1922. I did.

So I'm guessing that's Jimmy's day. That's his birthday.

Yes. And Dirks, which is the vodka that we produce, his is 1924.

I put that two and two together. So the next bourbon you got for me is Jimmy's 100, 100 proof.

This is a cool story too.

Let's hear it.

Okay. So you see that plaque on that barrel right there? Jimmy's 100. Yep. So here's what we do. And, and this is, this is so fun. There's so many bourbon buffs and we've got friends that trap, they've got You know their names on barrels in Kentucky and they come down there Texans and they come down here and just talk Kentucky all the time. And we said why don't we get all these guys together so they have a night where there will be like 25 or 30 guys and they sit and Jim will pick. My husband will pick three or four barrels and he thinks that they're pretty good and let's blend a 100. And these guys will have teams, right? So they'll sit down and it's all the bourbon buffs that we know that want to come. So if you want to come join us for a blending party, you're now on our list of bourbon buffs. So they'll show up. We've got food set up and, and, um, it's kind of a guy thing. So the, you know, we'll have, we'll do some fun stuff on the wine side, uh, for all the ladies, but the guys get together and they have a blast. So Jim gets them set up with all kinds of blending stuff and they blend together and they talk together and this whole team. So it'll be like a table of eight guys, a table of eight guys have four or five teams and they'll put these blends together. And then they'll have a blind vote on the blend. And it's so funny when ever team A actually votes for team B's blend. But it really makes it fair. It's fun. They take ownership on the product. And it's kind of an inclusive blending process. So that's how 100 is born. So 100 will come out of two or three or four barrels that are selected, and then the ratios of that blend. And we do a very limited production on that. Once that's out, that's out.

So you think that's how many? Three or four barrels? And you blend those together?

Add those ratios. And then the rest of that will be cut with water for Jimmy's 90.

So we got this Jimmy's 100. We got this Jimmy's 100. And, uh, I get definitely a different nose on it. I get that floral, uh, some citrus, maybe some, some tangerine actually, maybe a little tangerine bright.

Yeah.

Yeah. But nice refreshing smell you get.

Man, that's nice. It's really opened up too.

Isn't it amazing how you can let a whiskey set in a glass for just a little bit. and it'll totally change it. Same as wine, right?

I know. I'm talking to a bourbon guy. Don't get excited about wine, Marnell.

I've drank a lot of wine in my life. If you're married, you're bound to break out a bottle of wine, especially my wife's a nurse and she's like, hey, there better be a bottle of wine after this shift right here waiting for me.

I can't wait to meet your wife. So she's here, right?

She's here.

That's awesome.

Another, another great bourbon by you guys, I think, uh, very, uh, floral on that front end, still got that sweetness to it. But on that back end, you still know it's a ride, right? And yeah, not that burn from like a really deep ride, but, um, it's definitely a 100. Um, it drinks like a 100. Sometimes you'll have a, a 90 or 100. It drinks like a 120. Ooh. And then sometimes you'll have a, I've had some 120s that drink like a 90.

Is that what you call your favorite?

Yeah, my favorite is Weller's Special Reserve. All of our listeners, it's a weeded bourbon. Everybody's called me a big sissy if they want to. Not many people would probably do that. So if you're more, our listeners more to call me that. I don't care. It's good bourbon. Good bourbon is good bourbon. So my question for both of you is what was your first bourbon?

My first bourbon was Jim. Okay. It was Jim Beam and eggnog.

Eggnog.

Oh my God. So, so it was at Jimmy's, it was Jimmy's house and my husband says, yeah, eggnog there's, you don't put anything in eggnog other than Jim Beam. I'm like, okay, I guess that's what eggnog is. Cause I had no idea, but that was the rule in their house. So.

Hey, they're bourbon their way, right? That's right. That's what we try to say.

What was your first bourbon?

What do you say?

Mine was simply my twenty first birthday and gifting from the boyfriend the traditional makers mark i would pick that because i'm the brand manager i'm visual and i'm you know i was really young looking at the. The dripping, the wax. I was working on the looks at first and later developed a taste.

A great way to do bourbon too. A lot of people would say that's it. So you guys are actually rebranding while we speak, right? You're fixing to rebrand your stuff. And I've seen the rebranding. I think you guys are going to do great with that. You would think John Wayne would have in a saddle bag when he's in one of his movies, a nice tall bottle, right? Almost a dark Texas rich color to it. I think you guys are hit the mark with that. And then you got an American hero on your bottle. How can that not sell? How could you not be a bourbon drinker and buy us on this bourbon with a great story? Like every great bourbon has a story, right? I appreciate you guys letting me come in today and take a peek inside your guys' distillery, hear your stories. I think you guys are going to hit a home run with this and be one of the great Texas bourbons out there. I think you can compete with any of the other big boys out there in the market in Texas. Even with the Kentucky bourbons, that's saying something. That's saying something.

That's saying something.

I think it's good juice. To me, a good bourbon is a good bourbon. You know, some people might differ, but my pallet's my pallet, your pallet's your pallet, and Kelly's pallet's her pallet. And that's how it is. But I still think it's a great bourbon. And I would sit down by my fire with my dog, Woodrow, and drink it.

There you go.

So everybody, you're going to see me on down at Bourbon Road. I want to thank you guys. Where can we find you on social media?

KeepersallTexas. Keepersall, Texas.

Keepersall, on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter.

Yes.

And your website.

And our website. Absolutely.

So stop by, see them here. They're about 15 miles outside of Tyler, Texas. It's worth, if you're in Texas, it's worth the drive to come over from Louisiana or if you're in Dallas for a Cowboys game or you're down in Austin, take that drive up, take that drive over, come by and see them.

We've got a 15 room in. You can come stay with us.

Hey, that's even better right there. And they got a winery for the wife.

And they can come see Birdie Mae.

Or the husband if he doesn't drink bourbon, he drinks wine. Either way around. I don't care how you do it. Come drink some bourbon with them. I will see you down the bourbon road. You'll next hear from me. I think I'll be in Little Rock in a couple of days. We're doing another interview there and we'll see you down the bourbon road.

Cheers.

Mike, that was a great interview. I mean, Marnell did an awesome job for filling in, you know, I think. Very interesting. So tell me, they've got two bourbons. Yep, one at 90 proof, one at 100 proof. Same bourbon, just two different proof expressions. And your favorite was?

I think the 90 was great. It's got a sweetness to it. It's a four grain. It's a beautiful expression of bourbon. She actually asked me off air, Now tell me the truth, what do you really think?" And I was like, you know, if you knew me or if you listened about me or you read what I wrote and stuff, you're going to, I'm a straight shooter. I'm going to tell you what I think. I'm not going to lie to you. And I thought it was a great bourbon. something I could sit down and drink with you or I could sit down by my fire and talk to a Woodrow and drink it.

Good deal. Well, yeah. Well, that was great. So sorry you didn't find any Weller, but it sounds like you found Jimmy's and that was good stuff.

It was. It was great. I got to spend some more time with my son and Marnell was great. She gave my son two bottles as gifts. I thought she thought it was pretty neat that he works on B-52s. That airplane's been around almost as long as the plane that Jimmy flew. They got a little camaraderie there. I think Jimmy's passed on, uh, last year. Um, but, uh, yeah, we got on down the bourbon road back to my son's house and spent a couple more days with him. Um, we brought him a whole bunch of bottles of bourbon, which was probably good because he can't get too much down there. And he's a big Biden's fan.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, you just live right down the road from Buffalo Tray, so it's pretty easy for me and you to pick up some Blanton's. So I brought him some Blanton's and some other bottles that I thought he'd like. And me and Vivian got back on the road and we were back on our way to back up to Kentucky.

All right. Well, Mike, we've got one more distillery. Yeah. So out of six, this is the final one. It'll be the final one, yeah. And who is it?

Well, it's what we're sipping on right now is Rocktown distillery at a Little Rock, Arkansas. Um, a great distilleries right downtown. Uh, if you fly into Arkansas in the Little Rock or in Arkansas and you like, I mean, I got a little time to burn downtown, stop by and see them at Rocktown. Uh, they, they make some good, good juice. Jim, you are, you already drank all years.

I got a whole, I need a little bit more because I tell you what, you know, One of the things I like doing is when your glass is empty, when you sip that last little bit, go ahead and nose it again, nose the glass. And man, this is, this is a lot of caramel. Oh yeah. A lot of caramel butterscotch.

It's actually opened up a lot of it as we've been sitting here and talking and stuff. Um, they, their DSP is DSP AR one five zero zero one. So they say they're the first legal distillery in the state of Arkansas since prohibition. I don't know if that's right or not. And I wish, um, Maybe we'll reach out to Michael Veach and ask him and see if he can give us a little bourbon history or distillery history on Arkansas. Uh, but Phil Brandon, he's the one that started that brand there. And, um, he was just, just a businessman and the Intel technology, I think he worked for Autel and he got laid off and he needed something to do. So he started himself a distillery. That's, that's what you do, right? When you get bored, just start a distillery. Now, two of these distilleries, um, seven three and, uh, Rocktown were both helped by Dave Pickerel.

Okay.

The late Dave Pickering. He's helped start many distilleries, but a legend I would think in the distillery game. Absolutely. So they have his legacy with him.

All right. Well, let's listen to your interview.

Hey, this is Big Chief from the Bourbon Road and we left Shreveport, Louisiana this morning and we're moving on down to Bourbon Road. We're heading back home to Kentucky today, but we thought we would take a chance and stop by Rocktown Distillery in Little Rock, Arkansas and see what they're distilling, see what they got for us. And luckily enough, they let us in their doors this morning. So we're in here and I'm with

Andrew Wingfield. I'm one of two national brand ambassadors for Rocktown Distillery.

So Rocktown Distillery, they started In 2010, with Phil, their owner, it's all your own juice, nothing sourced here.

Right, yeah. We take a lot of pride in our whiskey. It's grain to glass. So we have partnered with local Arkansas farmers. They grow corn, wheat, barley, rye, and we take those ingredients. We have a mill here on site. We mill it up. We mash it, ferment it, distill it, and age it all on site here at Rocktown.

And you guys' DSP number is DSP Arkansas 15001. So you are number one distillery here in Arkansas.

We're the first legal distillery in Arkansas since prohibition.

That's pretty awesome. You took us through your, uh, through your warehouse and back to your steals and stuff. And you put all your juice in 53, 25 and 15 gallon barrels.

That's right. So we have a, we have a Coupe Ridge here in Arkansas. It's in Hot Springs. It's called the Gibbs Brothers Coupe Ridge. Um, and we love those guys. We use their barrels. Uh, they only make 15 gallon barrels though. So we put a lot of our experimental whiskeys into that size barrel, but we also have 25 and 53 gallon barrels. Some of those we get from Independence Dave and Kelvin and McGinnis and you guys are like a true you are true craft store. So you're putting about four barrels per week Right about 200 gallons of whiskey per week. So and you got Vendome's Vendome steel and you got a vertical column with that Yeah, we have a 250 gallon copper pot still made by Vendome

So in 2018, you guys moved into this new building here. It's an old Cadillac dealership.

That's got a lot of history here in Arkansas.

What's the history behind the name Rocktown?

You know, Phil Brandon is the man who started Rocktown Distillery. He's Little Rock born and raised. So Rocktown is a name that he came up with to emphasize where this whiskey comes from, where it's produced. And it's Rocktown, it's Little Rock. And we're also big fans of rock and roll.

And that is no joke. I walk into the warehouse and you guys are in there, got CZ Top just blaring to the barrels. They're getting to hear that music. Maybe that vibration's helping it. go in and outside of the wood. And I noticed when we walked in, before we came in, one of the employees was opening up the windows to the warehouse to let some fresh air and stuff in. That's right, yeah.

So is that room temperature controlled? So the, the barrel house is, we have an AC and heater in that room, but only because we host events in there. Um, we don't climate control it most of the time.

So she just opened up windows, letting you don't have no event there today. So I think it's like 35 or 36 degrees out today.

It's super cold today. So, or it's super cold for us. You know, we're not too far away from, from having a snow. But yeah, we don't mess with the temperature in the barrel house 99% of the time because we want the, we want those climate changes. We want it to be really, really humid and hot in the summertime. And then in the cold or the winter be really dry and cold.

So one of your mash bills is a sour mash and everything else is a sweet mash though. Correct. So what do you got for me today?

You got some pretty pretty pretty special juice, right? So today I thought we would try our single barrel reserve. This is a cask strength single barrel version of our flagship Arkansas bourbon whiskey. It's 82% corn. It's 9% wheat and 9% malted barley. Let's let's taste this.

Yeah, cheers. I get a little on the nose. I get a little. Maybe some dried fruits. Definitely get that vanilla. Absolutely.

Big caramel. Wow. Some nutmeg, little cinnamon, baking spices. I get it. I get all that. I got some nutmeg on there. Yeah.

Peppery on the back end though. It doesn't drive my mouth out or anything like that. It just, it does leave you wanting, wanting more like any good bourbon should, right?

Absolutely. Yeah.

Now what, what proof is this? She said about 117 proof.

Yeah, there are, you know, all these single barrels that cast strength are a little bit different. They typically come out 118 to 120. Um, this one is, uh, yeah, around 117. So it's a, it's a full flavor bourbon whiskey. And this is the one that put us on the map in 2015. This one, uh, us micro whiskey of the year in Jim Murray's whiskey Bible. Wow. That's a great, uh, that's a great whiskey.

So here, whenever you guys, what, what do you, somebody comes on off the bourbon road and they want to take a tour. What, what do you guys usually take somebody through?

So we like to take them through the beginning of our distillery here in Arkansas. We tell Phil's story. Phil did not come from bourbon makers. He was actually in telecom. And he worked at Altel, which was headquartered here in Little Rock. Well, you know, Verizon comes in and they buy Altel and they laid off a bunch of the staff and they told him that he could keep his job, but he'd have to move to New Jersey. But he's Little Rock born and raised, so he doesn't want to move to New Jersey. So he tells them where they can stick it and quits. So at that time, he's faced with unemployment. And he probably does what a lot of us do when faced with unemployment, which is turn to alcohol. So during that time, he's drinking a lot of bourbon, a lot of whiskey, really, really liking it. And looking at the map of bourbon distilleries in the US finds that there is not one in Arkansas, his home state. So, you know, a lot of people would look at that problem and say, boy, it'd be nice if somebody built a distillery in Arkansas. But Phil looks at that problem and says, why not me? Why can't I do it? So he got the state to give him the very first distilling permit ever issued since prohibition.

And we're in the, in the heart of the Bible build. And that must've been some chore to, to get Arkansas to say, okay, yeah, this is a good idea.

Yeah, I imagine it probably was. And I'm sure some people thought, man, that's a bad idea.

We don't need no more liquor in the state of Arkansas. Yeah.

But you got the corn here, right? That's right. You got the rye, you got the wheat. Rye actually was not grown commercially in Arkansas until we decided to make a rye whiskey. So we contracted the first plot of commercially grown rye in the state in order to make our our rye whiskey. So like we have, um, we've got a straight rye whiskey. We also have a four grain sour mash bourbon that includes rye and the mash bill. So I think that because no one else is using that grain and nobody else is sourcing a hundred percent of their, their whiskey grain from Arkansas, you know, in the same way that that wine has a certain terroir, like grapes from certain regions have different flavors. I think whiskey has the same kind of thing. So because nobody else is using those grains, it has a really, really unique quality that is not found in any other whiskey.

Yeah. As I was telling you earlier, I think when I think of Arkansas and I think of whiskey, I think of the Arkansas River.

I think of Jim Bowie. I think of Daniel Boone.

I think of those frontiersmen that came here from the East. From Kentucky from Tennessee and what they bring with them or what do they want they they want some whiskey and I think a riverboat whiskey I think of I think of bourbon you know those guys they want that flavor they want that same thing they have back at home or where they started out. They're out here being frontiersmen and you guys are just taking it a step further. The first legal distillery here in Arkansas. Man, you guys did an outstanding job with this.

How many years has this sat in the barrel? Um, you know, our, our whiskeys are, they're, they're typically, you know, straight two years, um, two to four years. We do have a bottled and bond regular release bottle and bond coming out. Um, we have done, we, we've done limited release bottled and bond whiskeys. We did a bourbon and we did a, we did a rye and, um, our, our bottled and bonned bourbon got a 92 in Whiskey Advocate magazine. Which is amazing. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. So like we're finally at a point where we can where we are going to be able to offer a regular release bottled and bonned bourbon, which is a huge milestone for us.

You know, I think you guys are doing great here and stuff. Thanks. What other states are you guys in besides Arkansas right now?

We have active distributors in 16 other states. You can probably find our product on the shelf in 22 states. We're in Canada. We're in the UK, Germany, Taiwan. So we got a pretty far reach for a craft distillery. And what's the future look like for you? Oh, gosh. We're just going to, we're just going to keep producing and, and, you know, focus on making great products. And, um, you know, maybe eventually we'll, we'll expand a little bit further and we got listeners in Australia and I'm sure I guarantee you there's a guy out there named Jacob Bell.

He's going to ask me, how do I get rock town in Australia? I am not the one to answer that question. You're the brand ambassador. Yeah.

Well, get on a plane and fly into Hillary Clinton Airport here in Little Rock. Come on over to the distillery. We'll get you a bottle. But yeah, we're not looking to overextend ourselves. I mean, we probably are just. We're going to, we're going to focus on, on being the best that we can in the places where we're already available for now.

So are you in, are you in Kentucky right now? No, not in Kentucky. No. Is that plans to get, get your stuff, your product into Kentucky?

Maybe we'll see how many of your listeners call their, uh, call up their local distributors and ask, you know, if they can bring Rocktown and we'll see how it goes.

Well, we want our listeners to come by here. If they're out on the bourbon road, that's, you know, we want people to say, uh, Hey, I'm outside of the state of Kentucky and I'm driving down a road and I got to go through Little Rock or I'm in Little Rock for a day for business. There is a distiller here and they got some great bourbon and you should come try it. That's what I would say as the big chief is, hey, come by and check this place out. They got a nice bar. No food here?

No, we don't do food. We really don't want to get wrapped up in that. We've got a lot of great local restaurants right here on our street within walking distance. We're going to do one thing really well is we're going to make spirits and we're going to make cocktails with those spirits.

They still can come out here and get a bottle of bourbon and take home with them. Absolutely. Yeah. Package it up, take it home on an airplane or you're driving on down the road, take a whole case with you.

Yeah, whatever you want. We love having people here. We offer tours, tastings. You know, we love to educate people on on whiskey and answer their questions.

So where can our listeners find you guys on social media?

At Rocktown Distill is our Instagram handle. And of course, Facebook is Rocktown Distillery. And what about you? What if they want to talk to you? If they want to talk to me, I'm on Facebook as Rocktown Wings. And that's also my Instagram handle.

And you're the man to answer any questions about, hey, how do I get this into my state? Absolutely. If we got some state out there saying, hey, I think we need to have Rocktown in our estate.

Yeah, I'm the man to answer that question. If I don't know the answer, I'll just go ask Phil and he'll tell me.

So that's good salesmanship. Well, we're going to sip on a little bit more of this whiskey right here. This is our last stop on this episode right here. It's been a great trip. Me and my wife, Vivian, we're gonna head back to Kentucky tonight. Thanks for having us in. Absolutely. To Rocktown. Anytime, man. Loved it. I'll see you on down to Bourbon Road. Bye bye.

Well, Mike, I really enjoyed that a lot. And you know what else I'm enjoying? this rock town. Well, I knew you were going to enjoy this rye whiskey.

I think you're trying to get me to be a rye whiskey drinker or a rye drinker. You know, I love it, but I still love my wheats.

You know, I almost converted Randy back in the day. But anyway, this is turning real butterscotch-y. I'm getting a little bit of wintergreen in it now. I have to say that it's almost like it did spend maybe too much time in the barrel. but it gives it character. It gives it a lot of character and it's not like anything else I've had before. I would highly recommend somebody try this Rocktown single barrel, barrel proof rye.

It's a treat. I think, you know, that's a lot of people that stick with just brands that they've known forever or the very popular brands or the big brands. Um, you know, I think these new distilleries, artists and distilleries are, starting to put out some great juice and you're missing out if you're won't pick it up or try it. Yeah. You know, you don't know what you're missing.

Well, it's hard to pass this one by when it's on the shelf. I imagine it's a beautiful bottle in a beautiful tube. Their, their artwork is just phenomenal.

And every one of their bottles is like that. It's in a tube and they really are trying to be a better distillery. They've moved locations into this old Cadillac dealership. And when I walked in there, ZZ Top is just into their Rick house or the warehouse. ZZ Top's just blaring. And I mean, it's thumping to those. So I'm sure that the vibration's moving that whiskey in there a little bit. Maybe that's what it is in and out of that barrel. I thought that was pretty cool. And it was nice of Andrew, their brand ambassador, to sit down with me. Phil was out on a business trip. And hopefully if we're down there, we can sit down with him and talk some more.

Well, I'm going to shoot Andrew a message. I think I'm going to let him know how appreciative I am of getting this bottle sent out to me. It's, uh, it's something I'm going to sip on and I'm going to share with others. And I really like it. It's very good. Mike, your trip was epic to say the least. I think it was a, it was a good trip. I think you had, uh, um, How many miles was it again? 2,200, 2,200 miles, 33 hours, six distilleries, seven States. That's a good trip.

I think I'd like to do something like that sometime. I think it'd be a lot of fun. I think most people, if you, if you're out there, you're from Kentucky, you know, and you're do distillery tours here, or if you're from that state that we went to distillery and a Even if you die, find a distillery in your state and go visit them. They might shock you. But me and Vivian had a great time. All the distilleries were very open and transparent with us. Beautiful expressions of whiskey. I don't know if I'd have a favorite at all of them. I'm a Texas boy, so Marnell there at the Stiller at Keepersaw, I loved how they treated my family like gold. They fed us lunch out there, gave us some whiskey. They took us through their winery. They were just great people, but everybody was the same. Everybody opened their doors, embraced us, embraced our podcast, and I loved that. So I'd like to say thank you to all of them.

I'd like to say Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Absolutely. This was our first two part podcast, but next week we'll get back to a one part podcast. Anyway. Yeah. So this is releasing on Christmas day. So Merry Christmas everyone. Uh, thank you for listening to the bourbon road and, uh, we're going to spend a little time with family.

Make sure you let's tune in next week. We do have a special guest next week though. We do. And you do not want to miss him. He's very knowledgeable in the bourbon world. To me, he's a, he's a legend. So tune in.

Cheers, Mike. Ho ho ho. Cheers. We do appreciate all of our listeners and we'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to hang out with us here on the Bourbon Road. We hope you enjoyed today's show, and if so, we would appreciate if you'd subscribe and rate us a five star with a review on iTunes. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, at The Bourbon Road. That way you'll be kept in the loop on all The Bourbon Road happenings. You can also visit our website at thebourbonroad.com to read our blog, listen to the show, or reach out to us directly. We always welcome comments or suggestions, and if you have an idea for a particular guest or topic, be sure to let us know. And again, thanks for hanging out with us.