98. Lone Elm Straight Wheat Texas Whiskey

I'll tell you one thing, this thing's got a Kentucky hug to it though, Jim.

It's a hit down there. It's got a mouth hug.

It's going, well, it's going south, right? More than that small batch, huh? I can feel the hair hair growing on my chest.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Log Heads Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Find out more about their fine rustic furniture at logheadshomecenter.com. Hello, everybody. I'm Jim Shannon. And I'm Mike Hyatt. And this is the Bourbon Road. And today, Mike, we're on Stream Yard once again, virtual space, drinking a little bit of whiskey with some great people. Who do we have with us?

So we got five points distilling at a 40 Texas, really their lone Elm. We got Bill Wolford, their master distiller, and we got Brandon. I guess you would be their national branded ambassador, Brandon, right?

Actually, I think I'm the caterer.

You're the caterer.

He does whatever we need. We're a small outfit. He does whatever we need. Everybody does, right?

I said it before. He'd say it.

So he's the everything, man. So Bill, I got to go ahead and get this out of the way, man. I'll just go ahead and say, hook them horns. I know you're Texas A&M fan. Hopefully we'll get that rivalry going. And once again, here in the future. But Jim, man, they were good enough to send us two great bottles of wheat whiskey. They sent us their small batch Texas straight wheat whiskey and their single barrel Texas straight wheat whiskey. Both of them are 90% wheat and then 10% malted barley. So, man, I'm wanting to taste this stuff.

Well, I'm pretty excited and we've got plenty of time here to get to know these guys. First though, before we waste too much time, let's get to that first bottle. So, hey guys, what do you got for us in the first bottle?

A small batch, 90 proof. It's Chill Haze filtered. It's that 90-10 recipe, a blend of yeast. And we grow the grain here locally. And this is wheat country here. It's cattle country. It's not a corn place, right? So we're growing wheat here locally. And so that's our main ingredient. We're kind of in a natural ecosystem here with all about the wheat and the other local ingredients. We want something that's from the farm, from the ranch, however you want to say it. And this was our first baby that was born here, the straight wheat whiskey. And it's a hand mashed, hand distilled small batch. It's 500 gallon batches. We make 153 gallon barrel of this product a day. And everything's done manually by hand, no automation, just handcrafted for your pleasure.

So you're grinding that grain by hand, Bill? I'm just getting a visual of that.

Yeah, well, you know, practically, right? Practically reporting that grain. If I could get a hand crank on that thing, I'd probably... Is that what Brandon's for, right? Yeah, Brandon's got to turn the crank. And yeah, so we do, we do mix the mash with a motor and we do spend this, uh, this little motor, but we do have, we do have a simple roller grinder, roller mill grinder, right? So, uh, yeah, but basically it's, you know, kind of hands on. It's not, it's not, uh, it's not, uh, engineered per se. It's, uh, everything's mechanical, you know, turn it on, turn it off yourself.

So, 90% wheat at 90 proof, cooked up in Texas. And I tell you what, I mean, I'm holding it up in the Glen Cairn here. Mike can see your Glen Cairn as well. That's some dark liquid. That's some very dark liquid.

Yes, sir. You should have... This is a four-year whiskey that you're drinking tonight. It's made in small barrels though. And so it's, it's 15 gallon barrels of new American white oak. And it's aged two years in a shipping container at 120, 130 degrees. And then the last two years in the standard, uh, standard Rick house. So that every, every 10 degrees, that temperature gets hotter. The double doubles the reaction rate for the whiskey to age.

They call that a hot box, don't they?

We call it a cool hand Luke box down here.

All right.

Well, let's check it out.

I'm getting some savory notes out of this. I've been nosing here the whole time and I'm getting, I want, I don't want to say beef jerky. Um, but I'm getting a little bit of that and I'm getting that oak is definitely coming through. Maybe a little black licorice.

Yeah. Black licorice, black cherry.

Yeah, I'm definitely getting the licorice. The oak is very prevalent and Mike, I'm, I'm picking up that savory note. I'm getting that, uh, I don't know what to call it. It's kind of a,

Makes me think that this would be a good barbecue whiskey for some reason.

Of course, this is just the nose right now that I'm getting, but.

We do use this in our barbecue sauce. So yeah. All right. Cheers. Strong, strong vanilla too. These small barrels put out a vanilla for sure.

Yeah. So, you know, I expected a lot of sweetness upfront from a, from a wheat. This one's doesn't have that great amount of sweetness. You might think you'd get from a 90% of wheat. Um, it's definitely got a licorice palette to it though. I think that's the predominant note for me. You guys heard that before?

Oh, sure.

Sure. Yeah. I'm actually getting a little bit of just a, if I ate a pecan like straight out, I sat there and shelled it on the farm or something and ate that pecan. I'm getting a little bit of pecan on this.

Now are pecan, are you talking about a green or a fully ripened pecan?

Well, I'd call it a central Texas pecan. It's a little hard shell pecan. Yeah. And probably right there when they're just, they're just opening up and stuff. It's not green, but it's not all the way ripen.

But yeah, that's a, we have, we have pecan trees on the property by the way.

No, not the big, long harsh shelf shell ones.

Are they little, little, little bitty ones, the long, the kind of long hard shell. Yeah.

Yeah. This is a pretty, pretty even, pretty even on the palette. I feel like I get a nice impression from it. Front, middle and back. Um, but that, that licorice is really pretty prevalent there, but on the back, Mike, getting a little bit of chocolate, a little bit of cocoa. Yeah.

You know, that, that cocoa powder that your mom would cook with stuff and, you know, you and your little kid, you thought, man, I see, I see chocolate powder on there and you stick a big spoonful of that in your mouth and you get powder. You just a little bit of bitterness on it.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a little, it's a little dry on the back. I think, um, you know, that lack of sweetness, I think lends to that dryness a little bit. But like I said before, it's kind of, uh, it's kind of well-rounded. It kind of presents itself kind of evenly on the pallet, a little bit of hug, but the finish is pretty long on it. I'm surprised for a four-year wheat whiskey.

You wouldn't think that, but I'm just wondering how this is going to change in a 53 gallon barrel.

The oak and vanilla is going to drop off a bit. The other flavors are going to stay strong. The oak and vanilla is going to drop off a little bit. But the way we age, it's so much faster. That four years in a small barrel is more equivalent to eight or 10. That's why it's so dark.

So you're moving to larger barrels now, but when you hotbox these 15 gallon barrels, how much did you end up with out of a barrel when you pulled them out of there?

Less than half. Less than half.

So you went into the standard Rick house with less than half what you started with.

That's correct. Wow. The angels are thirsty in Texas.

Yeah.

It's not a, they're serious, you know?

We, we well know that that, uh, I think this is a prevalent of Texas whiskey. And I've talked about this and some of the blogs are written and some of the other episodes that these Texas whiskies are, they should just be a category of their own. Um, there's something special about them. I think Jim hit it nail on the head. This would go great with some Texas brisket right here. Oh yeah.

Yeah, I think so. And you know, I like, I'm a big fan of something that's not like everybody else. You know what I mean? Something that's a little bit different, a little bit out of the box. And I have to say that your wheat whiskey is one of those because I was totally surprised by it. And, uh, I've never had a wheat whiskey that presents itself like this. It's got its own profile. Mike, we've had some other Texas wheats, haven't we?

Yeah, they're all just a little bit different. Um, yeah, each one of themselves actually posted this morning about a two week whiskeys or wheat bourbons out of Texas, but this ain't a bourbon though. You guys did that on purpose, right?

Absolutely. I mean, Kentucky, Kentucky's been making bourbon for a couple hundred years and that's, that's, that's their deal. Right. And they're pretty good at it. So we, we had no intentions whatsoever of copying Kentucky. Right? We wanted something that was uniquely us and Texas, right?

So do you still have that check that was thrown down?

No, I cashed that baby. That bought the first capital equipment from Vendome in Louisville and bought the 500-gallon pot steel, the 500-gallon mash tongue, the fermenters, the boiler. That first check put the capital in the equipment.

So Bill, can you tell all of our listeners what I'm, what I'm talking about? What's that first check I'm talking about?

Yeah. So in, in, in 2011, uh, right before labor day, uh, me and the college buds, we, we go out to Kentucky once every, once every couple of years and pick up some great whiskey. Right. So we do the, you know, call ahead, do the master distiller tours, get meetings, get special backroom tastings. And we bring home all this great whiskey. And that just kept getting harder and harder and harder. It just got to where we were spending a lot of time out there. And you could not get those bourbons you wanted to get. You could not get that special reserve that you wanted to get. They were just not available. It's just almost impossible. There was such a run on them. And so even with the relationships that we had, you know, going every year, every two years and meet with the distillers. So we. So we came back with our with our with our loot, we did get a couple of good things. I think we got a Evan 40 and a happy 30 and some pretty good, interesting things. But about I think was probably about 11 to midnight. I was we've been drinking quite a bit. And I said, guys, you know, I can make better whiskey than this. And I'm not going to say what we were drinking at that time. It's neither one of the previous ones I mentioned. I said, I can make better whiskey than this. And one of my roommates wrote a check and slapped it on the table and said, I'd like to see that. So I kind of let my alligator mouth overload my rabbit hind end on that one. So we did it. I mean, right there in that moment, everybody wrote a check and well, he wrote a check, but the rest of us said, yeah, we'll go in with you. And so that's what started. I came back and we started construction in 2012, right after the first of the year we started construction. Plant was up and running in 2013, made our first whiskey in 2013, bottled our first whiskey in 2015. And that's the story, right?

Man, Jim, I think next time you're over and we have a fire down by the Creek, I think you should slap down a check like that.

Yeah. That would be nice. Now, wouldn't it?

It would be special.

I think a big chief, I think you might make some pretty good whiskey. I don't know. I don't know about all that. Well, you can sure.

I mean, there's been some whiskey made down on my Creek for sure.

We're, uh, you know, we're, we're all about the whiskey, right? It's about the whiskey for us. We're, and we're not, you know, we just, we're just into making the whiskey. It's, it's fun for us, right?

Now you, you, you went to Texas a and M as I said, I won't shame you too much more for that. I quit quitters quitters. Never So, but you did go to Texas A&M and you do have that background to understand chemistry and all that. What's your degree in from Texas A&M?

I have a undergraduate in chemistry, a master's in physical chemistry and a doctorate in physical chemistry and physics.

So there are some smart boys coming out of Texas.

Yeah, there are, there are quite a few. And, um, so I have that background in the kinetics of the reactions for the maturation, the thermodynamics of all of that, the physical, you know, the face diagram separation that exactly what distilling is. So I have that background and you know, those, those co-ops, I learned a lot about distilling, but not, not, uh, not whiskey more in the oil industry.

There's a lot of people out there like that. We have some good friends, Pat Heist and Shane Baker up at Wilderness Trail. You know, they didn't start out in whiskey, but they knew a little bit of stuff about yeast and they're doing just fine. So.

After I got out of the Air Force, I went to work for Boeing and I did the B-2 and the F-22 programs. And then I was up in Seattle and I couldn't take the rain anymore. Nope, they got great beer up there, great fusion food, beautiful place, but I can't take rain every stinking day. So I decided to come to Texas and got back here and making whiskey seemed like a fun thing to do.

Well, thanks for your service. Both me and Jim are veterans. We definitely appreciate other veterans.

Thank you for your service.

My son's actually a B-52 mechanic.

Oh, cool. Cool. I've got a lot of air force in my family. My uncle was a bird colonel, U2, SR-71 pilot. My other uncle, chief master sergeant of the air force, retired out of Emendorf. He's still up there hunting bear and moose and fishing for salmon. He loves it up there. So kind of the last frontier up there.

So what was it like after you got that check? I mean, you had to go shopping and building and all that kind of stuff.

After I sobered up. Yeah, so yeah, we did all the construction ourselves and we did all the solidization ourselves. We got some engineering type guys here. We did all that ourselves. So we just jumped on it and we got We made some mistakes in the plant layout for sure. You know, we took some things we learned from Kentucky, but we really got a good boost from Rob Sherman and those guys at Vindome, right? They really talked us through a lot of things that helped us jumpstart the project, right?

We might know a couple of people there at Vindome, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. We know, we know some people at Vindome.

Those are, those are good guys. They were, they were really nice to us, really helped us, you know, take everything we kind of knew and kind of boil it down to a place where we could start making whiskey, right? Where it made sort of sense, right? So why Lone Elm? Lone Elm is the original name of Forney. Forney was where the settlement were on. The place we were on was called Lone Elm. They changed the name later. I can't remember. I think it was to change the name for the railroad guy. They wanted the railroad to come through town, so they renamed it after him. And now the railroad's a real minute. It blocks traffic all day long.

I thought the town was named after fornication is what I thought.

Yeah. That Burt Reynolds movie and Dolly park movie from back in the day. It's kind of like that out there. It's the head capital of Texas in case you don't know.

I actually, I played football against a Terrell Texas several times back in the day.

Yeah. Yeah. So four knees, definitely beef, cattle, and hay, that kind of thing. Right.

And you're also known down the road, you got a big old Buc-ee's and if people haven't been to a Buc-ee's and you're from going down I-20 outside of Dallas, Texas, you got to stop at a Buc-ee's. It's a, it's a lifetime experience.

Yeah. You got to stop at Five Points Distilling and drink some Lone Elm and the next stop is Buc-ee's.

Well, that'll get you prepared for the sights in there.

That'll get you prepared for the crowd.

Well, I'm getting towards the end of my glass here, Mike. I got a few comments I'd like to say. Now you said you, you guys chill filter this, right?

Chill Haze filter minus 20 degrees on this one.

It's still got a decent viscosity to it. Even after it's gone through chill filtration, I want to say that, um, that warming palette that you get from it really, really hangs around. So, I mean, it keeps that, keeps that cinnamon fire going for a while. The licorice, Mike, kind of has that numbing effect on the tongue a little bit. Don't you think, you know how you'd get when you get one of those ANS candies or one of those black licorice or Danish licorices, how it kind of numbs your tongue a little bit? Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

I kind of like that. That's why I like them so much.

So if you're a fan of that kind of thing, yeah. This is a sour mash, right?

This is our match. Yes, sir.

Yeah. I think that's why they, you get that lingering effect a little bit that, that tongue tingling a little bit. I don't get too much Kentucky hug on this though. Um, as we would call it, you know, there's not that, that deep burning in your chest. Um, but I think it's a good sip and whiskey. Um, I would like to see what happens when it goes to those 53 gallon barrels. And, um, I'd like to taste that kind of compare these two to see what happens.

You have to wait a little bit of time on that.

So 2017, you started laying down those, those 53 gallon barrels. Right. And where are you picking up those barrels from?

Oh, that's ISC up in Lebanon, Missouri, you know, some nice white oak from the Ozarks. And yeah, we were three, three to four char. And then we're, we're using, um, toasted staves inside the barrels. We had toasted staves get the best of both worlds, right? Yeah, absolutely.

All right, fellas. Well, we are about up to break time here, so we're going to continue sipping on our glasses here, make them go away. And, uh, yeah. And when we come back, you've got something else for us to try. We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Loghead's Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Loghead's Home Center, nestled in the hills of Kentucky, is an industry leader in building hand-crafted rustic furniture. Family-owned and operated, they take pride in offering only the very best for their customers. The Logheads, and that's what they like to call themselves, are skilled woodcrafters who are passionate about creating rustic furniture for people who appreciate the beauty of natural wood. Owners Tommy and Gwen don't just sell the rustic lifestyle, they live it. And you can be sure that Loghead's furniture will always be handcrafted in Kentucky by artisans who embrace the simple way of life. Loghead's rustic furniture is made from northern white cedar, a sustainable wood that's naturally rotten termite resistant. Its beauty and quality will add warmth to your earthy lifestyle for generations to come. Be sure to check out everything they have to offer at LogHeadsHomeCenter.com. And while you're at it, give Tommy and Gwen a shout on Facebook or Instagram at LogHeadsHomeCenter. Hello everybody, we are back from our break and we are with Lone Elm Whiskey and we're drinking Lone Elm Whiskey. And Mike, what do you think about that first half?

I thought it was great. You know, it's a little something different for us. Um, Texas whiskey is its own category to me anyways. So, um, I gotta salute Bill and his team out there. They, uh, it definitely created something different that's outside the box. It's, they're not trying to recreate, you know, Kentucky whiskey or Tennessee whiskey or heck anything else in America. It's theirs most definitely.

Well, Bill Brandon, we'd like to get straight to that second bottle you brought us. So what do you have for the second half?

The second half is our hand bottled, single barrel, unfiltered. Well, it's coarse filtered, but it's basically not chill haze filtered, not anything straight out of the barrel with a coarse filter and straight into the bottle. Whatever proof comes out of the barrel is in the bottle.

We like to call that, we like to call that just getting out the chunks, right?

Yeah. Just getting out the chunks is what this was.

And the reason, let's just remind our users, the reason why you chill filter a lower proof whiskey and you don't have to in a larger proof whiskey.

We, we chill haste filter, uh, just, just so it won't cloud up. It makes for the cocktail people who are making cocktails like a chill haste filter. So it doesn't cloud up. Right. It just, just, just, it's just a looks thing. Right. There's a, there's a downside to it. I mean, it takes out some of the heavier, heavier stuff. Not that much. It depends on the, you know, the cellulose filter you pick, but there's, you know, there's a few things that come out. So you'll, you'll be able to taste those differences. And we taste a single barrel. There's going to be a, it's going to, it's going to be hardier. It's going to be a lot more flavors in this single barrel. All right, let's check it out. Different finish on the back of your palate.

I'm getting that same smoky, maybe it's the oak coming out of this from the Texas heat has been in that hot box. I'm getting that smoky flavor coming from it.

Yeah, I would say that this one is a little bit smokier than the small batch. How much difference do you guys see in your single barrels? A lot or just a little or?

No, we have a, so I, the way we make the small batch is I get out 20 barrels, probably about 20 small barrels and I start tasting those small barrels and they, they, they go in, they go into two piles. small batch or single barrel. And then in the next cut of that, so when I really like a barrel, when I pop it open and I taste it and I say, that man, I really like that, that's single barrel. So that's my personal choice for single barrel. Now there are other people, there's five of us, right? So some people are choosing slightly different whiskeys. But then I take the small batch barrels I picked and I rack and stack those into what I want, what consistency I want for this small batch product. So small single barrels are very unique barrels and there's usually something different about them that I think is interesting.

Well, Mike, you definitely got it right on the smoke there. And on the nose, I'm still getting, I'm getting a little bit of that chocolate too. I would say on the nose, smoked almond covered in chocolate.

I mean, I smell a little banana in there for some reason. It's toasted coconut. Smell toasted coconut.

That's a smell of two cardamom.

Oh, is that what that is? What barrel number are you guys, what bottle, what barrel are you guys drinking out of? I'm drinking out of 92. So mine's totally different than yours.

So this is barrel 488.

And you remember all those barrels, right? So when we mentioned that barrel, you know exactly what we're talking about, right?

No, but I do know, I do know who managed to distill that barrel off the top of my head.

All right, so cheers. Cheers. Yeah.

So this one's a little bit more, um,

Oily.

I would say, I don't know, oily, thicker, heavier, heavier, heavier alcohols, right? Or stronger, but those, those heavier alcohols, you know, when you add oxygen, it's a barrel drops out, right? As the angels drink those heavier alcohols turn into those more interesting esters, right? So that, that's all those extra flavors you get, right? That he's talking about the, uh, more of the licorice, more of the anise, more of the black cherry, all those things, you know, come from those heavier alcohols being converted in the barrel.

That's like a, almost like a smoked chocolate, crispy cream donut without the sweetness.

That sounds dangerous.

Hey, you guys are definitely pulling out the anise. You say anise, I say anise. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That way it's waxy butcher. I can really, I can really taste that. I mean, smell that in the, uh, and taste that in the, in the single barrel and most of our single barrels.

What'd you say? It's kind of like a waxy coat to its mouth.

If you just take fresh waxy butcher paper and smell that. That's what that strikes me as Mike.

You use a lot of butcher paper.

I do use butcher paper, uh, to smoke brisket in.

Right. That's what I'm, yeah, that's the flavor. I'm that's the flavor I'm smelling here. Tell you the truth.

Brandon, what are you drinking there? Moonshine. No, that's just water, man. It's just water. Is that a giant white cloth?

You guys, you got to hydrate every once in a while.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We do once a week, don't we, Mike?

We drink water on Saturdays, right? Saturdays, yeah. It's been filtered through a barrel.

When you, when you guys said waxy paper, we've got everything from waxy paper to hay, the Play-Doh to, uh, the wheat cracker smell, you know, it's all across the board. I guess it really depends on what year you're drinking out of.

Yeah, this is definitely a big boy whiskey. I think it drinks a little hotter than that one. What's this? 121.

Yeah.

121.8. I think it drinks just a tad bit hotter than that. Um, it's not quite stack level. No, no, it's not stag level. It's not a, he, what he's talking about is I call, I call stag George C stag. I call it gasoline. It's, it doesn't fit my palate too well, but it's not a weeded whiskey either. So what did you say? Hey, and Play-Doh. Yeah, that's just, that's just what we've heard.

Play-Doh's made out of clay. Yeah.

I don't think I'd ever call another man's whiskey Play-Doh.

I know. I think about slapping him right now.

Well, when whiskey tribe did their YouTube, uh, interview, they said, uh, they, they smelled Play-Doh. That doesn't mean everybody smells. You call it clay, you call it Play-Doh, whatever, you know, but like earthy earthy is the word. Did you say, did you say girthy or earthy?

There's four of us in this, uh, episode right now. And all three of us, all four of us can, can taste or smell something different. That's just the way, the way it works, you know, it's hard to think.

I think the single barrel, everybody does find something different in that. And you, you'll find you, you would be totally shocked at barrel 92 versus the 400 and something you have.

I'm sure it's hard to control in those 15 barrels where 53, you'd probably have a little bit more, um, even average across there, I guess.

Right. Right.

This is, I think this probably Jim brought up Jim's palette right here is, uh, this is a great, I'd say this is a winner, winner set by the fire sipper right here.

I'm just now getting those cherries, dried black cherries, I think.

Right.

Yeah. But not a lot of sweetness to them, just dark and rich and, uh, but, but they're not, they're not the predominant note for me. The predominant note for me is still that smoky chocolate licorice. Um, I think it's kind of your, your profile and, you know, a lot of people that fits right in the middle of where they want to be.

I'll tell you one thing. This thing's got a Kentucky hug to it though. Jim, it's a hit down there.

It's got a mouth hug.

It's going, it's going south, right? More than that small batch, huh?

I can feel the hair hair growing on my chest. I think the 400 barrel series, it's got a lot, it's got a lot of hug to it. You too, I'm drink it's quite a bit smoother on the back end of the palette. But the 400 series has got a lot of hug. It's a good campfire whiskey there.

Now, as it's set in the glass a little bit, now I'm getting a little bit more almond and I'm getting a little bit of sweetness coming out of that. Maybe that's that cherry Jim was talking about. It's opening up a little bit. It's been in the glass. Tastes a little bit different to me. Maybe it's that Kentucky hug whooping my ass, but I'm not sure.

Yeah. I think this whiskey is great to let dry on the glass. and then you can really differentiate all those flavors. When you're done, let it all dry on the glass and you can go back and you can have a really good chance of differentiating a lot of these flavors or just some water.

So before this whole pandemic thing took over and changed things for everybody, you guys had some pretty good traffic through the distillery there and a lot of bottles going out of your local shop. So, I mean, that's a big part of what you do, right? I mean, a big part of what you do is entertain visitors and give tours and

Right. That's the fun part, right? We get interact. We also do a kind of a master still in class where we do we have people pick their own recipe, let them mash it and ferment it and then come back the next weekend and distill it and bottle it. So we do kind of a class if you guys are in town. Yeah, it takes two Saturdays though. But you do it from scratch to finish. You know, that's one of my favorite things is to have a bunch of guys out there making their own whiskey. And then we put it back in some 15s and some fives. So you have some whiskey early, maybe eight months, maybe a year in those fives. Well, depends on how long you can wait, right? Some people are six months, they're pouring that out and some people can go a year and then crash the 15s will be done in two years.

I served for 24 years in the service, so I could wait a long time. We just put it in a 53 gallon barrel and let it roll.

Yeah. Well, it's one of those things, you know, that they get in a hurry and I'm going like, man, I love watching people understand and take that angel chair, right? When it's their whiskey, right? They're like, my guy, we got to get this out of the barrel, right? So that urge to get it out of the barrel, you know, to count the number of bottles coming out of that barrel. It gets pretty intense.

That's my wife always, she's like, Hey, you're going to open that bottle of whiskey so I can taste it. And I'm like, I got plenty of whiskey there. It's open. I'll wait for a little bit. No, I want to, I want to taste that. No, calm down. Let's, let's wait a little bit.

And it's, it's fun when there's maybe six or seven guys in a group. There's one guy that wants to bottle it. He wants to bottle the white dog that day. And then there's one guy that wants to wait. You know, we sell no whiskey before it's time, right? He'll, he'll, he will go to the edge of the earth, aging that whiskey as long as The dynamics there is always great, right? That's pretty cool.

But, but in Texas that you can almost split that time, right? So, you know, a four year old whiskey in Texas might be an eight to 12 year old in Kentucky, just because of the dynamics of the weather there. But you guys are in North Texas. So the weather there is not San Antonio weather.

We're about 10 degrees hotter than Kentucky on average, which is about 10 degrees hotter than Scotland. doubles each place. But when we put it in the shipping container, that changes things. That rocks it. All summer long, it's 130, 135. And most of the winter, it takes it up about 40 degrees on average.

Now you got anybody running out going in that container and fixing leaks or anything, or you just forget about it?

No. You just close the doors and you just get away. When you open the doors, it knocks you down. A challenge. Who can get to the back of the shipping container? So far, nobody's made it. It's that intense, right? All the angels stare. We use sealed containers. All the angels share is still in there. Wow. And don't let him, don't let him match. Right. Well, when you open the door first, it's above the explosive limit. So it won't explode as it drops down though. It goes into the explosive limit and then it goes low and it's again, out of the explosive limit. So it's, it's, there's this, there's this, you know, there's this window there, right? When you first open, it's so intense.

It won't, it won't ignite, but are you, are you a gas free engineer too? You gas free in that thing?

Yeah. So we, uh, we, we have to open the doors to let oxygen in. So we're, so we're oxygen. We're, we don't have what, what little oxygen we had was when the air was initially in there. So about every three or four months, we pop the doors and drop her down again.

Wow. So that stuff doesn't, you don't just figure that out on your own, right? It takes time and a lot of wrong turns and it took some effort.

Yeah. We learned some things. And it does, it does take the right guy to want to open those doors. And that's usually me. I'm willing to open those doors.

So you guys are part of that Texas whiskey trail. You're part of the West Texas whiskey association. Are you, do those guys help you out? Have they helped you along the way?

Yeah, I would totally say they have. Um, And I don't think it's just one over the other. I think it's just a group of small business owners that want to do something to, you know, stake their claim as, I mean, not to say they weren't touching before, but they sure the hell are now, you know, and I just think doing collaborations with each other, you know, helping each other out with sales and, you know, what clubs can do this for that, you know, I just think it's a, um, It's a really nice group effort to try to help each other out and, you know, I'd say we're more colleagues than competitors. 100%.

Well, I think you should send old Fred Noah and Jimmy Russell a letter and tell them they need to collaborate on something.

Okay, maybe not. But you know, there was probably one time when they did, those distilleries did, right? There's a lot of cross-pollination in Kentucky, right?

From what we understand, they're better friends than everybody thinks they are.

Yeah, that's what I'd guess too. Our travels in Kentucky, we found people were pretty open. Everybody knew everybody. You know, there wasn't a lot of secrets. They were pretty open with what they knew. And in some ways there, you know, they've been a protected industry for so long in Kentucky. That was a natural outcome of that. But I think everybody's just interested in the whiskey. And I think they just like to talk about it.

What other kind of expressions do you have in the works? What's going on behind the scenes? What else do you have going on that might surprise us here in the future?

We've got a weeded rye. The first barrel is coming out this month. So we will bottle our first barrel of a weeded rye. And it's very unique. It's very heavy on the ride. It's super spicy, but it has that, the same sort of uniqueness that our weak whiskey has all the way through. Right. It gives it kind of a totally different, uh, taste and feel.

So I'm assuming when you say we did right, you mean it has at least 51% right. And then the flavoring grain is wheat. And then there's some multi barley in there.

Correct. Correct.

Okay.

So it's pretty interesting. We have a lot of experience with wheat. We're 90% wheat, so that's really viscous. And there's a reason a lot of people don't want to do that kind of wheat, because it's viscous. It's hard to pump. It's hard to deal with. And rye's even worse. So you'll typically see rye's at 51%. But we'll be delivering this month a 70% rye. And our final production will be 60% rye.

Okay. So 60% ride. Then you're looking at what? Maybe 30% wheat and 10% barley.

That's correct. Okay. And it's, it's very unique. It has the uniqueness of this whiskey, but just a ton of spice.

Where can our listeners find your whiskey outside of the state of Texas? How would they get their hands on it?

You can go to licorama.com. We're in Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, California. We're in Munich, Germany. You know, we just kind of had bad distribution from when we started until middle of last year. So things are starting to progress. But if you go to Google, like Lone Arm Whiskey, and there's like lots of online options to buy. And you guys are in total wine now too, right? Yes. Total wine throughout the state of Texas specs goodie throughout the state of Texas or tons of individual liquor stores. But, uh, we do quite well. I mean, we got rated top five whiskey in Texas monthly, um, by Christopher Hart. So, um, you know, we have some collaborations with some other Texas distilleries, uh, coming this October with a, Uh, we have a project with balcony is an iron root that, uh, is supposed to be released this October. So, uh, we're real intrigued to see what happens there.

Is that, is that Dr. Pepper who Dr. Pepper? What do you mean? When I was down at Balcony's, I gave him a hard time. Waco.

Waco.

Yeah, I gave him a hard time. And I said, because they came out with a Shiner Bach, right? And I said, well, if you're going to do a Shiner Bach, you got to do a Dr. Pepper. So why not? And I think they should do a big red, big red soda whiskey to, uh, let's get her.

Yeah, you are.

You are a long horn. I'm a Texas Texas through and through.

I think that's the Texas thing. Big red soda.

Well, actually Jim would probably tell you this too, is, uh, outside of the state of Texas until this late eighties, I think Kentucky was the only other state that could get big red soda. And if you come here, um, and you go to some of those restaurants here, they actually have a big red on tap.

Sweet. I loved that when I was, when I was a kid, I loved big red and Dr.

Well, if our listeners can remember this, I'll send you guys, our listeners that are listening to this right now, if you can catch this real fast, I'll send you a sample of both these whiskies right here. Um, I, every day before school, I was stopped by this place called Carl Grubbs grocery in event Texas. And I'll get myself a big red soda and a chimichang burrito. Yeah.

Mike, you might as well throw a can of big red in with that shipment.

Yeah, I will.

I thought a big red in there for you and a Bob Wills record in a can of Lone Star. I remember when Lone Star was breaking out back in the late seventies, Lone Star was breaking out into every state and then they totally contracted. I remember when Lone Star was a big beer trying to compete. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I'm going to tell you guys a story. So when I was a Texas A and M going over to the Dixie chicken bar in North gate, um, They had Lone Star beer in cans in, in horse trough tubs and you honor system, you would pull beers for a quarter, drink your quarter beers and pay them at the end of the night. Now that's Texas. There was horse troughs for the beer and there was ice in the horse trough in the bathroom.

We've, I think we've all had those stories, right? Well, maybe not Brandon. Brandon's probably a little younger than the rest of us, but, um, we always tell this story about, uh, penny, penny draft beer until the first person peas.

We had $5 dives, pay $5 drink beer all night out of the cup.

So, yeah, I used to love getting those beers out of the horse trough. That was great.

So Jim, I think this single barrel man, uh, for me, like I said, I think it would be a good winter sipper. Um, it's, it's a different expression. Like I said, out of Texas, a weed, wheat whiskey that we were both kind of surprised by a little bit, I think. Um, but once you start sipping on it, it opens up a little bit, a little bit of sweetness comes out. That smokiness is still there. Um, I like it. It's definitely something different.

Yeah, definitely dark smokey. Um, Spicy got a little bit of that chocolate almond to it. Uh, I think it's, uh, it's a different wheat whiskey than you've ever tried before. So if you're a wheat whiskey fan and you're looking for something that's out of the box and different, I would say this is something to definitely try.

So where can we find you guys on social media yet?

I can find us at, uh, loan on whiskey, uh, loan on spirits on Twitter, uh, at loan on spirits on Instagram. Um, we're all over Facebook, but, uh, and Instagram and Twitter. So, uh, I don't know. We're just trying to get out there as much as we can. Social media website though.

Right.

Uh, loan dash elm.com is. Yes, sir. And, you know, if we could find a bottle, I can get it to you guys. We did a collaboration with Trudy Oaks Distillery and Ranger Creek Distillery earlier this year for the Texas Whiskey Festival for like a little summertime hooch. We did those at Credit Barrel out in Austin, blended those. And that was allocated to the Whiskey Tribe and to the Bassers Ball this year, which we unfortunately missed the Bassers Ball. It shall return. It shall return.

That's right. Well, we'd love to see you guys out there the next time. So it'd be pretty awesome. Yeah. If you find a bottle of that, who knows? I get to taste it, right? Mike.

Yeah. Heck yeah. I always like surprises in the mail. Hey, if you send me one, I'll do a special video and I'll give you a big shout out. Um, we'll try to share it with the masses and stuff. I quite thoroughly enjoy that, especially when I, You know, I see that FedEx guy come up with the UPS guy drive up. I know something's going on. Even my dog. He, I don't know. He goes crazy. So Mike whiskey, whiskey, whiskey.

When you guys going to get over here, when you guys going to get over here and drink some whiskey with us.

Well, heck a bill. I was actually just there seeing my first. Um, I, uh, I went down to balconies and then I went over another day. I drove all the way up to Denison and saw the, the boys over at iron route and saw the, uh, mother of Texas whiskey, Marsha. Yeah. And I don't know how you guys escaped me. I really don't. Um, I don't either. I. You were, I might've called there.

That's probably right. We never answer the phone.

So I'd say Bill and Brandon, thanks for sending us some bottles of whiskey. We appreciate you guys coming on, sharing your story, letting the masses know what you got for us. We always enjoy drinking whiskey with anybody, especially the people that make it and you know, your passions there. That's, that's the first and foremost. And you're doing Texas proud. I got to say that. All right. Well, thank you.

Absolutely. Did you tell Bill what a, what a, what a big wheat man you are or does he know that?

So I'm the self-professed, a weeded king of Kentucky bill.

Yeah. I love w I mean, I grew up on weeded bourbons, right? I mean, my dad was just such a fan of weeded whiskeys, right?

And just, just, if you look behind me there, you'll see a three, three of my special bottles up there that, um, probably won't last very long. Exactly.

They never do. Right. Once they're open.

And the funny thing is Mike says, self-professed, we King Kentucky. But now as we travel around and we go places, we'll pop in somewhere and they'll say, Hey, it's the wiener King of Kentucky. That's so much self-professed anymore. Is it?

I don't know. I took an Instagram photo this morning and I was trying to post it and stuff. And, and then my wife was like trying to count all of our weed whiskey bottles that we have. And she was like, which ones do you want? And she's like, you got probably over a hundred, maybe 150 bottles of just wheat, weeded bourbons and wheat whiskey. And that's different expressions from like all across the country. I think craft distilleries were made for big chief. That's for, that's definitely the truth.

Sounds good.

All right, fellas. Well, this has been a great episode. We really appreciate you guys coming on the show here. For everybody out there, we do two episodes a week. We do a short episode every Monday, 15 minutes. We talk about a craft distillery, a new expression, sometimes a big boy. But every Wednesday we have somebody on the show like today. We do a full-length episode around 60 minutes. We'll do an interview. We'll drink bourbon with them. We'll talk about everything that's going on. Uh, we, we hope that you listen to us twice a week. Mike, where can they find us on social media?

So you find us on Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook at the bourbon road. Um, you could find us at our Facebook or group, the bourbon roadies. It's our own private Facebook group. Come in there, uh, hang out with like minded people like distillers. We hope, uh, Brandon and Bill will join a bourbon roadies on Facebook. Um, we give away whiskey in there. We've got three rules. Um, you gotta be 21. You gotta like bourbon and, uh, you gotta play nice. We just don't tolerate any rudeness, right?

No rudeness. Hey, we're drinking all we can. We're selling the rest.

And if you're listening to this episode on your favorite podcast app, just go ahead and scroll up to the top, hit that subscribe button. It helps us out, gets us more people in our door. Then scroll on back down, you know, hit that review and go ahead and, uh, You can give us one star if you want, you know, just leave us a, a great review and say, Hey, this is what you can do better. But what we'd like you to do is hit that five star review. Give us a great review. Tell us what we're doing. Right. Um, it just makes old big chiefs head bigger.

So that's exactly what we need. We need your head to get bigger. Big chief.

Is that about, is that about a 10 gallon hat now or is it bigger?

bigger than that.

We have a website, the bourbonroad.com on there. You'll find, well, you can listen to our podcasts. You can also read our blogs about podcast episodes and you can also find our glassware on there. You definitely want to get yourself a Glencairn with a bourbon road on it. Take a picture, post it to our group. We'd love to see those. Uh, you could find me on Instagram at Jay Shannon 63. You find me at one big chief and we will see you down the bourbon road. We do appreciate all of our listeners, and we'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to hang out with us here on the Bourbon Road. We hope you enjoyed today's show, and if so, we would appreciate if you'd subscribe and rate us a five star with a review on iTunes. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, at The Bourbon Road. That way you'll be kept in the loop in all the Bourbon Road happenings. You can also visit our website at thebourbonroad.com to read our blog, listen to the show, or reach out to us directly. We always welcome comments or suggestions. And if you have an idea for a particular guest or topic, be sure to let us know. And again, thanks for hanging out with us.