23. Big Chief - The 2019 Kentucky State BBQ Festival

So when you sit down every day, what's your daily drink or what's your go-to bourbon?

Well, I start at 8 a.m. with, no I'm kidding, my go-to bourbon, if it's not Wilderness Trail, is

I'll tell you, Pat's behind you. She's shaking his head.

I know. I'm like, I can't get in trouble here. So it's wilderness trail all day, every day only strictly that it's, um, and if it's not, honestly, it's a gym.

Oh man. It's true. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that a lot of bourbon drinkers would do the same thing as drink a gin. There's a lot of good gins out there that are being made in America right now, right?

Yeah, yeah. My favorite gin is a local one. It's Castle & Keys, which of course, you know, we work with them a lot on a lot of stuff, so it's still within the family, I say, you know.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

Oh everyone, Jim here. It's been a crazy couple of weeks for us. We've been really busy. So everybody knows by now that Randy is moving on down the road. He and his wife are moving to Virginia. And Big Chief Mike Hyatt has come on the Bourbon Road as a co-host. you know the timing was a little rough for us you know we had been invited by wilderness trail distillery to be the podcast at the kentucky state barbecue festival for 2019 and and that chain of events that took place kind of left mike doing a solo run down at the barbecue festival And he did a great job. Mike ran around at the barbecue festival down there and he interviewed a bunch of fine folks. I was out in Colorado. I was on a family vacation and got to climb Pike's Peak and walk through the Garden of the Gods and go to Breckenridge and enjoy some great Colorado bourbons as well. I visited the 291 distillery. Had a really good time when we were out there with family, but you know Mike was sort of all by himself here and but he he's a real champ he took our equipment down at the barbecue festival and He was able to interview some fine folks. We have Big Mo Cason Steve Coombs, we've got Susan Riggler and Haley Perros and Pegleg Porker a lot of great people on this show So cheers to Mike for a great job done, and I hope you guys really enjoy the show

So listeners, hey, how lucky am I out here walking around and I bump into Steve Coons. Steve, welcome to the Bourbon Road. But I'm glad to be here, glad to talk. Let's talk bourbon, man. So Steve, what's your thoughts on what Pat and Shane have out here today at Wilderness Trail Distillery?

The first time I came here was about four years ago, and it was like this little Potemkin Distillery, just little bitty Rick house, little bitty still. And it was four years until I came back in May, and I could not believe how large this place has become. how many rick houses are out here and now they have this gigantic barbecue festival apparently has been going on for seven years and i've missed it until today this is fantastic what they're doing now you did something special out here why don't you tell our listeners about that so this morning we did a bourbon and barbecue pairing and it was mostly to show people The differences between certain bourbons like the wilderness trail we did, the wilderness trail high rye bourbon, and the wilderness trail rye and how those paired with different cuts of bourbon. We had two different beef ribs, we had some pulled pork, and it was fun to engage the audience and have them voice their opinions on which worked best with which and what didn't work.

Now, every day, we always like to talk to people about their bourbon road, their experience. When's the first time you took a sip of bourbon?

Oh, man, that was a bad experience. That was at a fraternity party, and it did not go well. And I was 18 then, and I don't think I tasted it again until I was 46 years old. And at that time, there was a woman named Dawn Pristol, who was the director of tourism for Nelson County and Bardstown. And she absolutely shamed me to going into Heaven Hill And she said, you know, the Heritage Center there, she said, Steve Coombs, you're not writing this article about Southern living without talking about bourbon going there and tasting bourbon. It was literally that tone of voice. And the lights came on and I had larceny and Eliza Craig and low proof bourbon at that moment just made my mouth incredibly numb, but it was delicious. And I've been hooked on it ever since. And what kind of, what do you got on your shelf today? What do you drink? What's your daily drinker? My daily drinker if pressed is Old Forester 100 proof, the signature, not the bottle and bomb, but the signature. It's an incredible bargain with a ton of flavors that you can cocktail. You can put it on the rocks. You can drink it neat and it costs you 20 bucks a bottle. I mean, it's incredible. But I'm lucky enough as a member of the press to get samples from all over the country from distilleries of every degree in bottles that I would never pay for in a second because they're so expensive. And it's tough. I mean, I go there and I look at them and go, what am I having today? And my wife is like, what about trying that one? It's like, wasn't that yesterday? She's like, no, it was the other day. So I love them. I'm trying to think of a bourbon that I don't like. But I'm a huge fan of Heaven Hill, I'm a huge fan of Old Forester, huge fan of Four Roses, name it. I probably like it. Michters, I love them too.

So you said you dabbled in cooking a little bit in your past. Why don't you tell us about that a little bit?

I did. I was a poor kid whose parents said, if you want to keep going to this Catholic all-boys high school, you need to pay for it. And so I got into fine dining. as a busboy and earned enough money to actually pay for private school, my car, my insurance, blah, blah, blah. But the time I got out of high school, we were still on manual typewriters, believe it or not. And I was a terrible typist. And I knew I couldn't be a writer unless I could type. And I became a chef in the midst of all that until word processing came along. I'm only 55 people. I'm not that old. But that's when it is about 87, 88 that I realized I could actually write about food and so after eight years cooking I started writing about it and have never stopped since.

Now do you cook with bourbon ever?

Only a little bit. I think it's a real challenge. One of the best chefs in Kentucky is a woman named Weida Michael and she and I did a piece together for Bourbon Plus magazine on the difficulty of cooking with bourbon and basically she said people are too heavy-handed with it. They think that more bourbon means more flavor and it doesn't. Bourbon is very challenging because as soon as you begin to heat it up, it begins to evaporate. If you add it to another liquid, they don't tend to get along very well. People like to marinate with it. It just doesn't work. That's part of why I'm doing these pairings is to show that bourbon really goes well with solids, like fatty meat, like barbecue that we're having here. And this is the root of my next book on bourbon and barbecue, and to show people, like I've done in several years, pairing it with country ham, with cheeses, with fruits, all these different things. Bourbon likes to play along with solids. It doesn't really play along well with liquids. I think it really likes chocolate, don't it? It loves chocolate. And you're not kidding. There are a few things. I've never found a chocolate and whiskey pairing that didn't work out. Chocolate and meat don't always get along. We've struggled to pair wheat whiskey with that. But bourbon and chocolate always get along.

Well folks, look Steve up. I don't think you'd be disappointed in his writing. I know I've read some of his work. Steve, where can we find you? What magazine, what books, what websites can we find you at?

Well, my website is Steve at, I'm sorry, SteveCoombs.com. My email is Steve at SteveCoombs.com and most of my work can be found at Bourbon Plus Magazine or you can see any web-based article that I write is linked to SteveBooms.com. So there are a lot of titles there they can read. Steve, thanks for being on the Bourbon Road today and we appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks so much. It's a pleasure.

So I'm here with Susan Riegler, the author, and she's written Kentucky Sweet and Savory and the Bourbon Tasting Notebook and several other books about whiskey and bourbon. Susan, welcome to the Bourbon Road. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Now, now the Bourbon Road is about bourbon. So, Susan, I'm assuming you drink just a tad bit of bourbon for these books.

A little bit, yes. For the recent edition of the Bourbon Tasting Notebook, we tasted 340 different bourbons, and I figured the other day I'd probably taste it close to 450 bourbons by now.

That's a lot of juice right there.

That's a lot of juice, but it is a tasting, so it's not a lot of juice at one time.

So Susan, what's your go-to? What's on your shelf right now that you go to every day?

That's very, very hard to say. There are just so many good bourbons. It really depends on my mood. All of the legacy distillers here in Kentucky certainly make a product that I like. So it's pretty hard to choose sometimes. Sometimes I just have to have a couple.

Now, what got you started talking about, writing about, loving America's native spirit?

Well, it didn't hurt to be born in Louisville. That's a good spot. One third of the world's bourbon is made in Louisville. Most people don't realize that. And I was the restaurant critic and beverage columnist for the Louisville Courier Journal for 15 years. And I started writing about bourbon before other people were writing about bourbon, before it was a cool thing. So I've been doing this for a long time and have had a chance to meet Virtually everybody in the industry write about them, get to know them, and I think what always strikes me is how very, very proud people are who are in the industry of what they're doing.

I think it's a very close-knit community, too, and they take care of each other. I guess my partner, Jim, he always says, tides raise all ships.

Absolutely correct, and the distillers most certainly realize that.

It's something we've kind of grown to love. Me and my wife in Kentucky is a small community feel you get. Even with some of these giants in the industry, they still feel like they're your next door neighbor.

Absolutely. And some of them are, well, kind of are my next door neighbors since I'm in Louisville, but they're not quite as spread as far apart as other spots in Kentucky.

So Susan, when you think back, what was your first sip of bourbon?

I was actually in my 20s. I was not unaware of it. I was certainly aware of bourbon. It was everywhere. I certainly spent many weekends at Churchill Downs and back before it got all tidied up, it smelled of old wood and popcorn and hot dogs and bourbon and cigars. So that's all been part of my consciousness for a very, very long time.

Susan, what do you think about Wilderness Trails bourbon and the products they're producing that Shane and Pat are producing today?

Oh, I think they're doing a very fine job. It's really high quality whiskey. I enjoy it very much and I think I really commend them for having the patience to wait until they had a little age on their products because there are a lot of new startups that rush into it and they're doing it right.

I'd have to agree with you on them waiting and have that patience and starting up something here in Danville that they're truly part of the community, as you can see today out here at the Kentucky Barbecue Festival. Now, we're out here. Are you going to try a little bit of barbecue?

Oh, I've already had my barbecue. I'm good. I'm doing a talk at 2 o'clock, so I ate kind of early.

Now, what did you eat today?

I had a pork barbecue sandwich and very, very good, very filling, tender, nice sauce.

Now, being a food critic, do you ever cook with bourbon?

Absolutely.

And what's your favorite thing to cook?

Oh, I do a country ham and chicken crepe with bourbon cream sauce.

Man, I might have to make some of that. I might have to get that recipe right there from you after we're done here.

The bourbon cream sauce will go a long way for a lot of things.

I'm so glad that we got you on today on the Bourbon Road. The Bourbon Road is about the culture and taking that trip and learning more about bourbon and what it has to offer great authors and hopefully we get you on just for a private interview and sit down with you for a while and we'd love that.

Well, I really, really appreciate that. Thanks so much and thanks for stopping by the Bourbon Plus booth today. Appreciate it.

So I'm running across a couple people out here at the 2019 Kentucky Barbecue Festival, and I ran into a little Zayn here from Lancaster, Kentucky. Now Zayn, what are you doing out here? You try to eat barbecue?

Yeah.

Now what's your favorite thing out here to taste?

Probably the bacon.

What, just regular old bacon? Is it candied bacon? What is it?

Bacon.

Just bacon. Folks, you tell Zayn he's a quiet of the talker. Are you going to try anything else?

Yeah, probably.

Are you going to drink some cokes, or what's your soda of choice?

Pepsi.

He's a Pepsi guy, folks. He's a rarity in life. So Zane, thanks for being on the Bourbon Road today.

You're welcome.

So I'm over here at Peg Leg Porker Barbecue, and I got Steve and Kerry. And we're going to talk about their bourbon, and we're going to talk about their barbecue. So Kerry, if you wanna go ahead and tell us about your barbecue a little bit and then talk about your bourbon.

So we've been, I've been cooking barbecue for 35 years and about probably 15 years ago, I've met Steve. He's a master welder and I had him welding on a smoker for me and then he joined my barbecue team. And then when I opened a restaurant, he wanted to come and help work the pits. And so he's my right leg man. I'm missing the right leg. So that's why I need a right leg man. And we've been open in Nashville for about six and a half years. Pegleg Porker in the Gulch in Nashville. Our specialty is real Tennessee barbecue, dry ribs, pulled pork and chicken. We don't do brisket. We say if you want brisket, go to Texas. And then now we've got probably five years ago started Pegleg Porker Spirits and we've got Pegleg Porker Bourbon. We have our white label. our eight-year-old gray label and our twelve-year-old black label.

Now I should have told you I'm a Texas boy so I love a little bit of brisket.

We just don't cook it at that restaurant.

Now I love some pulled pork though and I love some bourbon. What age is your bourbon?

So our white label is between four and six years old. Our gray label is eight years old. And then we have a 12 year old black label. And we'll be coming out with a addition that we call pit master's reserve this year. That'll be a 15 year old.

Man, I bet that's gonna be some good juice. Now, do you guys distill that yourself or do you source that?

So we're a non-distilling producer. We source our bourbon. Ours is a Tennessee straight bourbon. So ours is all distilled and aged in Tennessee. The thing that makes Pegleg Porker bourbon unique is unlike the Lincoln County process that filters through sugar maple charcoal on the weight of the barrel, making it a Tennessee whiskey, we're a Tennessee straight bourbon. We don't go through that process. But what we do is on the end, After we de-barrel the bourbon, we run it through hickory charcoal that I personally burned down in our pits and filter it through that to finish off that bourbon and give it a unique signature and taste. We've won a gold medal, double gold medal, platinum medals at San Francisco and at the SIP awards and so it's done quite well. Man, you're making me hungry and thirsty at the same dang time.

Now Steve, now what's your part of the operation?

I'm the general manager at the restaurant and also the pit master so I'm over like quality control, produce and products and stuff so whatever comes out of the back goes to the front, usually runs through me or some kind of decision of what needs to be made or what needs to be done for the day. Now quality control to me is the guy that tastes and probably drinks a little bit, right? Yeah, you got to have a little taste here and there and then the bourbon he makes is just so smooth and it's hard to tell the difference between any year. I mean the way it gets processed through that hickory chips and stuff, it's really a smooth, clean bourbon.

Now, folks, I want to remind you that we're out here at the 2019 Kentucky Barbecue Festival. So you're going to hear some music going on in the background, a little bit of good music. So hopefully I'll make the barbecue taste better. Now, what do you guys got out here today?

Today, we're serving pulled pork nachos. We got a pulled pork sandwich or a pulled pork platter. And then we also have some of our ribs. So we're doing our dry ribs, serving them in a half or a full slab.

Now, Steve, are you going to quality control that?

Oh, every morning. I got to check at least one bone. Now, are you going to drink some little bit of bourbon today? I'm sure we will. You know, there might be some white lightning coming through Kentucky. You never know.

Now, Kerry, out of them three products, their wheat, their rye, and their rye whiskey, which one's your favorite?

I like the weeded. These guys have done a great job. What people may not know is these were the guys that formulated and engineered the yeast for a lot of other distilleries around the country for years. They were chemists and scientists, and then they decided to do their own distillery, and they were going to contract distille, and then they came out with their own juice. It's excellent juice, good guys, and a great product.

Now folks, if you're down in Nashville, Tennessee, and you want to get yourself some peg leg pork or barbecue, go down to the Gulch just south of downtown there. And they got some great barbecue and they got some great spirits. Carrie and Steve, thank you for being on the Bourbon Road today. And hopefully we'll get down there and maybe we can do a podcast with you in the future.

It sounds great. We'd love to have you and maybe you can be on our podcast that we do right there in the restaurant on Friday nights.

We'd love it. We'll see you later.

Thanks, Mike.

So over here at Fox Run Beer Cheese, and they're out of Houstonville, Kentucky, just about 15 minutes south of here from Danville. And I'm with... BJ Case. And BJ, what are you, are you the owner-operator? Yes sir, owner-operator Fox Run Beer Cheese. Now what's your specialty at Fox Run Beer Cheese?

Well, today we have on hand a sharp cheddar beer cheese. It's kind of hot for the spicy palate. We also have a milder, yet kind of little kick, bacon flavored beer cheese. And we also have on hand a cream cheese dip. It's a garlic and herb cream cheese dip for the non-spicy lover out there.

Now, while you're taking your trip down Old Bourbon Road, what's your bourbon to drink?

Go-to bourbon for me today would be the Yellow Level Four Roses. I'm kind of a cheap bourbon drinker today. Now, how do you drink?

You drink it neat, you drink it on the rocks, you mix it. What do you do?

I would prefer it on the rocks with a little Coke on the backside. Every now and again, I'll have a bourbon and Coke.

All right, all right. That sounds delicious. Now, how long you guys, you're out here all weekend. How can we find you on social media?

We do have a Facebook page. Just Fox around on Facebook, Fox Run Beer and Cheese. And we also got a website. It's foxrunbeercheese.com.

All right. Well, it was nice talking to you folks. So I'm out here with Haley. Haley, tell us about your podcast.

So my podcast is called Kentucky Music Preview. And it's all about just trying to kind of foster the music scene in the state of Kentucky, get people out to go see shows, kind of tell people who, what, when, where people are playing throughout the state. So of course, always trying to support local musicians, but it's always just more about getting people out to go see music.

I sat and listened to your guys' podcast all day and you guys were interviewing Fred Minick and a lot of laughs in that podcast.

Yeah, a lot of laughs. It's one of those things where I've known Fred for a little while now, so I knew it was going to be a great interview. But getting in there, you still never know what's going to be said or how it's going to go. And it was a great time. And we don't edit our podcasts very much. And so that first run was about 96 minutes long, but it was a lot of fun. I love getting to hear Fred's stories and, you know, always good time with him.

So from what I understand, you got quite the bourbon palate.

I enjoy bourbon a little bit, just a touch. And I love it because I never consider myself much of a palette person. I try my best and that's it. But I think I just maybe get a little creative with whatever I find in bourbon.

Well, there's nothing wrong with that. So do you work with, I see you over here working at the Wilderness Trail Booth. What do you do here at Wilderness Trail?

So I am, well, it depends on the day. We're a small distillery, so we wear a lot of hats around here. But my official title is account distribution management. And so I'm a glorified account manager, but I also do events. I do our social media. I do some of our branding work as well. So just depends on the day.

And are you a musician too, or you just like to talk about music?

I mostly just like to talk about music. I have a background. I was a band nerd in high school. I played French horn competitively and all that fun nerdy stuff. So music's definitely been like a huge part of my family growing up. My dad's a musician. But these days it's mostly just about nerding out about music and actually playing it.

There's nothing wrong with music and bourbon together. It's a pretty good combination, right?

Honestly, it's the best combination. I'm just trying to mix all my worlds together as much as I can, you know? And it just so happens that bourbon and music goes pretty hand in hand like a good cocktail should, you know?

So out of the three whiskies that Wilderness Trail has, which one's your favorite?

Surprisingly, the rye whiskey. And I say this surprisingly because I'm not a huge rye fan. I think rye can be done really well and when it is, it's beautiful, but also rye can go very, very poorly. And oftentimes I see it at the other end of the spectrum. To me, when you do too much rye or it's a heavy rye, it's like putting too much Tabasco on something. It's a whole lot of heat, not a lot of flavor, right? Kind of scorches your tongue. But ours is a low rye whiskey, so it's a 56% rye. And to me, it is super floral. I get a lot of hibiscus, I get a lot of mint in it, and it's just so sweet and enjoyable. I love it. And it surprises me. It also had a barrel strength, which is currently like 118 proofs.

So that's something you would recommend to our female listeners out there to give it a try and it might surprise them, right?

It honestly would, especially for people who don't think they like rye. It's surprising for rye lovers will enjoy it just because it's something different, something new for them to try. But if you don't normally drink ryes, especially in a lot of females, I find don't just because of you know, that spice, that extra challenge, I'll say, to drinking. It's much more of a smooth, smooth content for a rye product, for sure.

So what would you recommend to our listeners? Which one would you recommend to do as a mixer?

Ooh, gosh, that's tough. Probably the weeded, just because it'll go a lot. Well, honestly, I say that, but lately, people have really been enjoying making Manhattans with our rise. Our new favorite to make with is our rye to go for. But if you're making another cocktail, usually the wheat's pretty good. Our wheat is surprising in that it's got a lot more heft to it than a lot of wheats do, a little bit more volume in the flavor, I'd say. So it adds a little bit more of a punch to your cocktails, which I like.

So when you sit down every day, what's your daily drink or what's your go-to bourbon?

Well, I start at 8 a.m. with that. No, I'm kidding. I my go to bourbon. If it's not wilderness trail is.

I'll tell you, Pat's behind you. She's shaking his head.

I know. I'm like, I can't get in trouble here. So it's wilderness trail all day, every day, only strictly that it's. And if it's not, honestly, it's a gym.

Oh, man, a gym. It's true. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that a lot of bourbon drinkers will do the same thing as drink a gin. There's a lot of good gins out there that are being made in America right now, right?

Yeah, yeah. My favorite gin is a local one. It's Castle & Keys, which, of course, we work with them a lot on a lot of stuff. So it's still within the family, I say.

Well, there's nothing wrong with that. Haley, we appreciate you being on it. How can our listeners find you on social media?

Well, you can find the podcast anywhere that you get your podcast or on our website, Kentucky Music Preview. You can find me on my Instagram, hazy.pesos. It's a play on my name. My last name is Perros and it's just dogs in Spanish. And so you can find me there or on Facebook as well at Haley.Perros.

Well, thanks for being on the Bourbon Road today. We really appreciate it and hearing your adventure down your Bourbon Road.

Thank you so much. It's been awesome to be here.

I'm here at U-Bond's Barbecue out of Yazoo, Mississippi. Yazoo City, Mississippi. That's right. And I'm here with...

I am Erin Campbell, also known as the newest boss lady or the barbecue duchess. And I am out of... Yeah, I'm out of Yazoo as well.

All right. So what do you got for everybody today?

Man, we got a whole bunch of everything. We call it the smorgage board, if you will. So we've got some slow-smoked bologna. We call that Mississippi ribeye. We've got some slow-smoked link sausage, some boneless chicken thighs, some hot legs that we like to call, which is chicken legs, and pulled pork sandwiches, the classic.

Now we're out here at Wilderness Trail Distillery, and you know, they're famous for their bourbon. Now what about you? You a bourbon drinker?

Man, I think the whole Yubon squad is bourbon drinkers. One of our specialty drinks, if you will, is called the Yubon Special, and bourbon plays a huge role in that, but it also makes people hurt in the morning because of it. It is bourbon of your choice, Sprite and pineapple juice, and they go down real easy, but again, you feel them the next morning.

Now I hear you guys got a mean Bloody Mary, too.

That's right. That's right. So we've been doing competition barbecue for about 30 years, and now we are transitioning to the festival circuit. And when you stay up all night with your pit, the thing that will bring you back, surprisingly, is a Bloody Mary. It's vegetables in a cup. It's got that vodka kick to bring you back, and you just keep on drinking.

Now, folks, if you're on the Bourbon Road and you're down in Mississippi and you're down there by Yazoo City, you need to stop in, you bonds, and get yourself some of this fine barbecue. I'm telling you, we will not miss out on that. Now, they got a whole bunch out here. If you're coming out here next year, you should stop by and see them. I will guarantee you, it's good. That's coming from a Texas barbecue boy.

Oh yeah, and if you want a secret, a secret, top secret, even though it's on the board, we've got something called the trainwreck, which encompasses all of our ingredients, if you will. That's bologna, it's pulled pork, it's sausage, and pimento cheese on one bun, and it's damn good. You have no idea what hits you. It feels real good going in, but wow, you feel like a trainwreck after it.

So you get those meat sweats. That's right. Where can we find you guys on social media?

Yeah, so we're real simple. It's U-Bonds, B-B-Q. That's U-B-O-N-S, B-B-Q. That's our handle for pretty much everything. We've got about six people, maybe five, who've been on Chopped, who've been on various television shows, if you will. So we're real easy to find. Just type in U-Bonds and we're there.

All right, thanks for being on the Bourbon Road today.

Thank you.

So I'm here with Charming Designs and they make farmhouse decor made out of bourbon barrels. And I'm with Kim Leathers here. Kim, how are you doing today?

I'm doing great.

Now, what made you come up with the idea to reuse and repurpose bourbon barrels?

Well, it's a trend here in Kentucky. A lot of people are doing the barrel tops and I wanted something different. So I just came up with the idea probably in my sleep.

Where do you get your barrels from and what kind of barrels are they?

I get them from Barchtown, Kentucky, and I buy them from a guy that gets them from Jim Bean and Makers Barch.

Now there's a little bit of bourbon left in them and when you get them?

there's a lot of bourbon left in them. It's amazing because I have some tops that was left over from last year, and they weigh about six to eight pounds lighter than the ones that I get now, and that's where the bourbon has seeped out of them.

Man, that is a waste of juice right there, ladies and gentlemen. A waste of juice, I think. If I was Kim, I'd become a bourbon drinker and mix that stuff up. So Kim, where can our listeners find you at?

I do a few shows. I'm getting ready to come up with a Facebook page. So just start looking for Charming Designs on Facebook and hopefully within the next month I'll have all of my product online.

And Kim, where are you located out of?

I'm located in Harwichburg, Kentucky.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Loghead's Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Loghead's Home Center, nestled in the hills of Kentucky, is an industry leader in building hand-crafted rustic furniture. Family owned and operated, they take pride in offering only the very best for their customers. The Logheads, and that's what they like to call themselves, are skilled woodcrafters who are passionate about creating rustic furniture for people who appreciate the beauty of natural wood. Owners Tommy and Gwen don't just sell the rustic lifestyle, they live it. And you can be sure that Loghead's furniture will always be handcrafted in Kentucky by artisans who embrace the simple way of life. Log Heads rustic furniture is made from northern white cedar, a sustainable wood that's naturally rot and termite resistant. Its beauty and quality will add warmth to your earthy lifestyle for generations to come. Be sure to check out everything they have to offer at logheadshomescenter.com. And while you're at it, give Tommy and Gwen a shout on Facebook or Instagram at Log Heads Home Center.

So folks, what a special treat we got for you today out here at the 2019 Kentucky Barbecue Festival. I met up with Big Mo Cason, a legend in the barbecue business. famous for pit masters. You've seen him on TV. You've seen him in a three ring circus. He is a legend. And we should feel honored to have him. First, I'd like to say, Mo, hey, thank you for your service, brother.

Likewise.

Hey. Likewise, brother. So tell us about your service.

You know, I'll tell you, when I was my last year in high school, you know, senior, And my grandma had 17 children. And my mom just had my sister and I, we were twins. And all my uncles and stuff, they worked at Firestone, Titan Tire. These were very union. They had strikes all the time. It was always up and down, up and down, up and down. And I remember standing in my driveway. And I remember it was warm outside. And I was like, what am I going to do? What's my next step after high school? you know at that time you know I'm thinking I want a job that no matter if you're out of a job or you have a job you're always using that product and the thing that came to my mind was water treatment because no matter if you're unemployed or employed you're turning that faucet on and off that's right and so I went in the Navy as a boiler tech. Now I've tried to go into CB was backlogged. So I went as a BT steaming boilers. And in part of BTs, there's also, if you get picked, you get to go in the oil lab. The oil lab is, as you know, is does all the water treatment and everything inside the onboard the ship. So I steam, I worked in the plant and the boyfriend of the boiler. And then I got promoted to be able to work in the oil lab, which was a really nice job. And what we did is we took care of the water that fed the boilers and went to take care of the water that fed the potable for the ship. So I did that four years, was blessed to be able to bust my ass in A school, got top of my class in BT, so I got first pick orders and I picked the USS Missouri Battleship.

Wow, what some history there. Tell folks what's so famous about that battleship.

Historic, 1944, came in late in the game in World War II. They actually signed the end of World War II on USS Missouri. And that's old school ship. And I remember my instructor telling me, because when you're in A school, you learn about all types of systems because you don't know what ship you're going to do. Some ships got automatic systems or semi-automatic. Some ships are stick ship. Missouri was a stick ship, meaning that it was all manual. So no matter if you were taking on shells and half the ships blown out, as long as the boulders were lit, the schools were still turning. And on a lot of newer ships or lunar ships, they're semi-automatic. They had automatic boarders. So as soon as they took a hit and the H-packs quit, the whole sequence stopped. The boarders shut down, and you had to do all that sequence all over again. So my remember, he started telling me, he says, Mo, you picked the ship? That's an old-school stick shift. For Navy D, that's what you want. Because then you learn everything. And so it was an honor to serve. I love that ship. That ship had so much clout and so much history. It's been everywhere. It's done the ribbons. I mean, it's just an incredible ship. And so I did two years on here. I went to Desert Storm with her. I was in Sierra Battle Group. Kicked the ass over there in Desert Storm. And then we came back. We became commissioner. And then we went to, I went on my second ship, which was the USS Peleliu LHA class out of San Diego. Did that. And as soon as I got out in the Navy, I did four years and I was going to go to Japan. My cousin was on the independence and he was like, I was like, you know what? I need to get into the civilian workforce. So within a year I got on at the water treatment plant back at home and I did 24 years. Now, granny, I come from a big family. My grandmother's 17 kids. We were all around barbecue and grilling. That's what we did. And one of the first things I bought when I got in the neighborhood was a little smoker I bought from Walmart, a little Brinkman Offset. I got back to doing what I love. And then I started seeing stuff on TV, like first season of Pitmasters, or these challenges with Tuffy and Myron, all those guys, and I thought that was so cool. So I start competing and you know, I'm just a working dude. I've got all the house, my buddy owned a little house. It was like an only 800 square foot house. I bought it for $24,000 and I remember and my soon to be wife, you know, her, we start, you know, we had our first child. And so what I ended up doing was I ended up, we bought the house up on the corner because I knew that, you know, I needed to get some money. We live paycheck to paycheck. You know, I just working for the city, you know? And so, I was able to take this house and gut it down to beer studs. I didn't go to the bank for no money. I just worked. And, you know, I got friends of mine, homies that, you know, carpet guys, towel guys, plumbers, electrician. I knew a lot of people that were in the industry. And so, I mean, they still charged me, you know, but they just didn't rank me. You know, they just took care of me. And I had $11,000 invested. in a year's time and I go to this house down to Bear Studs and I remember I put it on the market this little 800 square foot house that I bought for $24,000 and it sold in a week for $89.99.

So where did you start with, you said your family is big into barbecue and they started Is that where you learn to barbecue with your grandmother? You keep mentioning her?

Well, yeah, yeah. My grandmother, my mom was a seamstress. If you guys even know what a seamstress is, that's a very labor-intensive word. It is. It's a piece rate. If you understand what that is, that means once you got proficient at something, all they did is bump the piece rate up so you got to work harder for the same kind of money. So my mom had like probably three or four carpal tunnel surgeries on each hand. She was just an old school hardworking woman and worked two jobs.

I know my mom used to work at Walls and she worked for Wrangler. So I know where she got home dog tired.

Dog tired and she'd get up every morning at four in the morning and she'd go work and she wouldn't see her till the evening. So my grandmother watched us a lot and she's an old school woman. Everything she made from scratch, everything. when she was old school, she had 17 kids. So we had a Victory Garden that my grandmother and grandfather had at Garden. That's how she fed her kids, 17 kids. You know what I mean? She was dirt poor. You were in her house, man. It was just a shack. But my grandmother loved her kids and loved her grandkids, man. And so watching her cook gave me the, I mean, it was just, that's the passion from cooking. My grandma would be in the kitchen making biscuits and making all kinds of scratch. She didn't handle recipes. So that's, the passion came from my grandmother and my mother, but my grandmother. And then we always had, we were a tight family, squad, I mean, tight. So it's like, you know, K-Sons are well-known in Des Moines, Iowa. I mean, we, I mean, cousins, everybody, man. My uncles, man, all hardcore, man. And so we cooked all the time. We barbecued. We always had family gatherings. And my grandma was all about, she was the glue. And no matter what she was doing, we all came over to my grandma's house on Sunday. We all, that's all we did. And so I did that for years. And then, so that was already still to me. And then when I was a young cat, 10, 11, 12, my mom had a, We had a 55-gallon drum cut in half in the backyard, and I was always playing around with pork steaks or chicken. I didn't really cook any brisket, so I didn't know what that was at the time I was young. But that's cooking. I love cooking. And so then when I got out of the Navy, the first thing I bought was one of those smokers, and I just got back and doing what I love. And I sold my house. I bought my first real trailer. And I remember going out to a cook-off. And Johnny Trigg and I were walking back from a cooks meeting. He didn't really know me. I mean, I was cooking and he knew of me, but he didn't like really know me. And he was like, they just did season two or season one of the pit masters. That's when they, Myron, Melissa Cookson, they all traveled and did that kind of stuff, Tuffy. And he was like, man, you're going to put in for season two pit master. And I'm like, I had no idea. I said, dude, what are you talking about? And he said, yeah, man, it's a show. So I said, man, I ain't connected like that. I ain't got no connections like that, man. He goes, man, I'm serious. You need to put in for it. He said, you got to get personality, man. You need to put in for it. And I put in for it. And they called me like a week later and asked me to be a contestant. So I went out in California in 2010, won my episode. I went back for the finale a week later, lost in the finale. And then it's just been nothing but a blessing since then. I mean, phone calls, emails about opportunities, but I'm just the same guy. that I always have been, and I love barbecuing. I love the community of barbecue, the people of barbecue. It's just family, man. I mean, to me, sitting over, starting to fire, going to a pit and coming to a contest, man, and all the smells in the air, everybody's in the different rigs and all that. And I just said, man, this is where I need to be. This is where I need to be. And it's been just a blessing. I mean, I'm a humble dude, thankful dude, and It's all I can say, man. I mean, I just am the same guy, man. And the opportunities now have been overseas multiple times, going back over in November to back to Australia again, going back to going for the first time in Sao Paulo, Brazil in December. One of my greatest things next year, I got multiple places for the military. I'm going to armed force. I just signed a contract with armed force. Armed Forces Entertainment and Battlefield Entertainment going overseas to cook on a military basis. And to me, that's a dream come true. I worked 24 years at the water treatment plant and made that midnight shift. And 2017, man, you know, it just got harder and harder. I mean, I did all the pit master shows I did. I did that with a 40-hour-a-week job. I burned up all my vacation personal time in order to do this because of my passion. And then Academy Sports, which is a huge sporting chain based out of Texas, they're all over the South. They reached out email me and said, hey, Big Mo, we'd like to have your stuff in our stores. We want to do like a test pilot, like 30 stores. So I talked on the phone and he said, come on down to the corporate office and we'll talk. By the time I got 10 minutes in the conversation, they liked what I was all about and said, no, we're going to put you in all of our stores.

That's awesome. And you still don't know how your stuff's going to do. Anytime you can get a veteran small business owner and you can put his product out there or her product out there and they've served their country and you actually serve your local community too. To me, there's nothing better. So what's your famous cut of me? What do you do best?

I'm from Iowa, and we all bought hogs back at home. Big hogs. But I tell you what my jam is, what I love, I cook brisket. And that's because I started doing cook-offs. I was always intrigued by Texas, always. I love that type of flow and that swagger down in Texas, man, just the way they operate. I love how their food is simple seasonings, salt, pepper, and garlic. best briskets that i've ever had i mean i'm just sitting there you know ain't got no sugar it ain't got no these other bull crap in it you got three ingredients and this brisket is just fire i'm just like damn some salt and pepper salt and pepper that's it and i said oh no this is this is how you're supposed to do it and so i switched up my whole game man i had like You know, my old brisket rub when I first started, you know, I threw it together. I had, like, fennel seed and all this other bull crap. And I remember, I was at a cook-off, dude. I had a homeboy. He's a really good cook, man. And he tasted it, tasted the rub, and he was like, man, Moe. She kind of said, people dressing this up with just a bunch of farmers, dude. And he said, take this, this, this, and this out. He said, you're going to be just fine. And that's as soon as I got home the next day. Fiddle, gone. Carry away seat, gone. I mean, I just got down to basics and I started messing around. All these recipes and all my rubs are all my recipes.

Yeah, start doing the barbecue competition and stuff. And ladies and gentlemen, I tell you, we met Big Mo this morning and we started talking about bourbon a little bit. And then we come in this barbecue trailer here and me and him were talking and we both love Special Reserve. So I got my wife Vivian here with me and Big Mo here. And once he pulled out a big old giant bottle of Special Reserve.

And you know who gave this to me? my brother from another mother, Tuffy Stone, at the Memphis in May two years ago.

And it's some amazing stuff, ain't it?

I never had it. He came up to me, and he goes, Big Mo, and we're like brothers. We talk all the time. He said, here you go. This is for you. And I didn't, you know, I heard it. Well, I heard it was really good, but I didn't know nothing about it. And I tasted it. And I have, this has been two years. Look, it's only, it's about less than half. You're privileged to have some of my weller. up in here. It's in my barbecue trailer and not very people, not too many people sip on this. I sip on this very, very, not very much.

So I, so I got two military buddies. They both retired. Both chief boasts mates retired from the Coast Guard and they came over to our house probably about two months ago. And what do you think they drink on? Where are they from? Well, one is from Oregon and one is from Ohio. Great people. I like Oregon. I got some friends in my Oregon. And other guys from Ohio. But the next day, I came home from work. I had a bad day at work. I came home and I was like, man, I'm gonna get myself a pour of that special reserve. It was the last bottle I had at the time. I came home up on that shelf, they put it back on the shelf empty. They drink the whole bottle. That's messed up.

That's how they are though, man.

Hey, that's to my brothers though. So hey, if you got two best friends in the world, Kind of like you said, you can take it all, bro. Hey, they served their country just as long as I did. I think they deserve the best of my life. And I think anybody comes over our house would say the same thing. They can drink on anything. Just like, hey, you don't know me from Adam, but we came up in your trailer and we're drinking Weller Special Reserve. You're family, brother. That's right. So besides Special Reserves, besides Weller Special Reserve, what's another bourbon that you'd like to partake in?

Kentucky bourbon. I love Kentucky bourbon. So, my normal jam is blends. That's what I drink on the regular. I love some good 15-year pappy. Let's see what else. I had some for the first time a couple nights ago here in Kentucky. I had some Elijah Craig barrel proof. Oh yeah, that's some good juice. Woo, man!

Right out of Heaven Hill. I don't know where they're from. Out of Heaven Hill in Bardstown, Kentucky, and they're a family-owned distillery, Steve. It's kind of like wilderness trail here.

And you know what? I'm going to tell you something. The other bourbon I love is wilderness trail, to be frank. I know we're here on the property, but the first time I had wilderness trail was two years ago when we started being here. And what's cool about it, in my living room, I've got a barrel. It was one off their first release and they poured bottles for the pit master and that's the one we have our images on the side of the label. All the pit masters that do the Kentucky Festival. And I got it all signed with all the pit masters and that bottle is sitting at home untouched. And I've got the barrel that all that bourbon came out of in my living room. The owner gave me the barrel. And I got a sitting, I had a lamp in my living room.

There's probably juice inside that.

Oh, it is. He told me it's about four gallons in there still. But he told me, you know, when I get home, probably this winter, I'll take a screwdriver. He told me I need to screw the bands so they don't fall down. But yeah, I got two barrel bottles, one bottle to drink, and the other bottles all signed. And that's not going to work. I'm going to be old and crusty sitting in a hospice. You can have the bottle now.

Hey, that's some stuff to drink with grandkids and stuff.

It is, man. It just gets better than wine. So, Willis Trill's got awesome bourbon. I love all types of Kentucky bourbon though, but you know, like Willis Trill, Blanton's, those are what I got at home that sip on. But you got Wellers on the trail with you. Yeah, because my good friend told me so.

On the Bourbon Road, you can say Big Mo drinks Weller Special Reserve.

You're damn right. And I didn't know how special it was until I was talking with Brad. I was at his house. He had some. He's like, no, this is this is good stuff. Oh, man.

I tell you what, it's going to be a kind of unicorn. I'll tell you that.

He said because he said normally this bottle was like a $40 bottle because people are buying it up the distributors are buying it and then they price it up to $60 or whatever I don't know how it is now. So Big Bo's got the 1.75 liter

bottle and it goes for about 40 to 44 a bottle. But if you can find it, that's something that you're not going to find. And he actually has one of the old screw caps. This year they switched to the cork style cap on it and stuff. So he's got a bottle, but I will tell you, there's not a whole lot left in that bottle. And I feel honored just to get to talk to you and see that, hey, you drink the same thing I drink.

You're a big celebrity. Oh man, it's just barbecue family hashtag. That's how I look at it. That's how we are, we're just family, man. And that's the thing about it is, man, I've been all over this great country, man, and I don't care if I'm in Dyersburg, Tennessee, or I'm out in Portland, Oregon, or I'm out in New York State, New York. It's just... That's one thing about barbecue, and that's what I loved about it. It's a community. It's a family. I mean, you'd be at a cook-off, man, some young cat come up, man, just started first cook-off and needed some foil or needed some little tips. And we all give back because we've all been there. I remember doing my first competition cook, and I remember

you know uh my missteps and you gotta burn be honest you gotta burn some shit up before you get it right that's right man i'll tell you what i i smoke a little pork butt every once in a while every once in a while and uh so i'll tell you it took me a long time to perfect my pork butt or my brisket or make it home-made sausage or something it took me a while to do that and i think that's the same thing with bourbon it takes a company um a little while to hit a home run even though pat and shane out here at wilderness trail they they hit a home run right out of the park yeah there's some great rookies right there yeah you better get that rookie card because uh it's only going to go up from here i guess one of the things other things i'd ask you i i This morning we got to see that you are a true family operation. It was good to see that you didn't hire some kids from here in Kentucky. You didn't bring in the staff or anything. Your daughters are out there working with you too.

The thing about it is, I've got a friend of mine that's been with me for years here. Eric Westerfels from Kansas City. He's got a big 40-foot vending trailer and he's a nurse by trade, a burn center for KU University. KU Hospital, he's a burn supervisor actually, but he's a big-time barbecue guy and we've known each other for years. We competed against each other for many years and We hit, you know, we got good reports. I brought him in on this because it allows me to be able to do some stuff and talk and hang out. And, and I know that he knows exactly how I like my stuff. So I don't have to worry about trying to sit there telling each person, each nuances of how to do it. And so, but my daughter's Montgomery, she's just, I've got four daughters from 23 down to nine. And I brought the first time I brought my second oldest here. She's awesome worker. And uh, You know, she runs my cash box for me, my iPad system, and I knew she was on point because she was nine years old, 10 years old, and she was like... counting money, getting money, breaking change. And she was on point. I mean, she's graduated Iowa State University, honors, speaks fluent Japanese, speaks Mandarin. I'm taking her overseas with me next year, because I'm going to Japan, going to Digger Garcia, Guam, Singapore. She's thrilled. And she's going to be like my manager. And that's how I got her on the docket to go with me.

So I want to revisit your military career up out there. Maybe. It might have been before that. When did you get first, when was your first sip of bourbon? Oh shoot, that was my uncle's back in the day.

You remember what it was? I don't know where it was, but I puked my damn guts out just about the same time I tried my first Red Man. Oh, my grandpa would sit down there, man. He'd be like, yeah, my grandpa wore bibs. That's why I wear bibs. I wear bibs. I love bibs. But, you know, that's a Midwest thing. But my grandpa, that's all he would. He wore bibs. And I remember we were sitting down, boy, and he would pull out his old red man, tobacco. He said, you want to try some of this? And I said, yeah, grandpa. I put some of that in there, man, what, two minutes, man. I was puking my guts out.

Now, ain't nobody, he didn't say, hey, come here, Big Mo. He didn't call you Big Mo.

No, hell no. He didn't.

Come here, little Mo.

Yeah, and so we sat there and did that, and then my uncles and stuff, you know, we're sitting there playing dominoes in the backyard, and they have a little bottle and some bourbon, and they're like, My mom was like, she don't drink, she's never drink. So my mom would have copped. My uncle was like, she would beat their ass or she would like beat, because that's her baby. But yeah, he'd be like, pour me a little, have a little taste. And it was like battery acid in my mouth. But that was my first step back and I was nine, 10, I got a little sip on. Now, what about when you were in the military? Did you drink anything then? Oh yeah, come on now. Did you have a favorite back then? No, it was anything that was free. You remember that old military special there. That's right. Shoot, you know how this military do. You ain't gonna get rich. You live paycheck to paycheck. Paycheck to paycheck.

Well, hey, so Mo, how do we find you on social media? How do we reach out to you?

Yeah, I'm on Instagram. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Facebook. I love Instagram. That's kind of like what I normally hit, but I hit on everything.

And then- Got a couple photos on there of you drinking. Yeah. A little bit of bourbon.

Yeah, people think, man, man, you need to slow your break. You need to slow down. I'm like, look, dude, I'm just, I enjoy bourbon. I enjoy cigars, and I enjoy bourbon.

Enjoying life, right?

You know, it is. Life is short.

It is.

You know what I'm saying? I don't, I don't, I don't abuse and stuff. I don't, you know, but I enjoy, I enjoy. I mean, when I grew up, it was all about quantity over quality, because we didn't have no money. But as I'm a grown adult, it is quality over quantity.

Enjoy life, live life to the fullest is what I'm saying.

You damn right. You damn right, because you know, days given to no man. My eyes can shut permanently tomorrow. But I can sit there and say to myself, Big Mo' Case unlimbs.

So Mo, you got any big barbecue competitions coming up?

Yeah, I'm fortunate enough to get back into Jack Daniels World Championship down in Lynchburg, Tennessee, in the middle of October. It's a very prestigious contest. And I won a cook-off in Perth, Australia. And that's what got me in. And so I'll be going down to Lynchburg in the middle of October and taking big, big blue. And we're going to go down there and see what's up.

Well, listeners, hey, if you can get down there and see Big Mo at the World Championship down there, Jack Daniels, I'm sure he'd love to see down there. And you wanna see him win the World Championship, this is the time to do it right here. I'm gonna do the best I can, put my best foot forward, see what's up. Mo, once again, I'd like to thank you for your military service. Likewise, brother. Hey, listeners, try his barbecue. Check him out on Pitmasters. Just watch him. I think we're going to take one more pour.

We're going to take another pour right here. Come on. Let's do it. She's like, no, I ain't doing that.

Vivian says no, but I'm going to take another pour. You can never go wrong with some Weller Special Reserve. So Mo, thanks again, brother. And we'll see you down the bourbon road. You got it, brother.

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