53. Steve Coomes - Author, Journalist, Copywriter and Speaker

I got a glass stuck in my hand and said, Hey, try this and then try this and try this and try that. And then we go back to interview, uh, big mo case and back in his bar. So we go inside there and he pulls out a big old handle of Weller's special reserve. And he's like, I don't have no glasses. So we're being just gonna suck from the bottle. I was like, all right, so they're me, Big Mo Casey and my wife sitting in the back of his barbecue trailer, just sucking on a bottle.

The emphasis is on Big. Yeah. He's a big dude. He's about your size though. We're about the same size. Yeah.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Log Heads Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Find out more about their fine rustic furniture at logheadshomecenter.com. Well, hello everyone. I'm Jim Shannon. And I'm Mike Hyatt. And this is the Bourbon Road. And today, Mike, where are we? We're at Justin's house in Bourbon in Louisville, Kentucky. Yeah, this is kind of a new addition to downtown. It hasn't been here very long. Justin's House of Bourbon is at 101 West Market Street, not too far from the epicenter of the bourbon, kind of the bourbon capital of the world here. But they have another location in Lexington and they were kind enough to open up their speakeasy room to us. so that we could have an interview today.

I'd say they're a high-end bottle shop. To me, that's what I would consider it. Not a liquor store. More of the higher-end stuff is here. You're looking for something special, hard to find. This is the place you want to come find it.

They have a tasting bar, and they have a lot of not only store picks, things that they've chosen, but they also have some old dusty bottles, some stuff from the past, and some pre-prohibition stuff. Okay, that's kind of their expertise there. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, who do we have with us today? We got the man the myth the legend Steve Coons.

Welcome to the show. Oh glad to be here guys. How'd you like that introduction?

Yeah, man myth legend. Man is probably right myth and legend. I don't think anybody's wasting any time making any myths about me.

What, Steve, so you're from a Louisville area? I am, lifelong, 55 years.

55 years, so you bleed that red color, right? I do. My parents got me on that, and I'm a University of Louisville graduate, so I do love my cars, despite their mid-season faltering right now. And that's where you went to school at? That's correct. Graduated late in my class in 1992.

1992. Man, that takes me back, Jim.

It does. Should have been 1986, but I spent a long time being a chef, and you can't really do that in college very easily at the same time. So you were a chef, too, at going to college? I was. I was the world's worst typist in high school. I always knew I wanted to be a writer. And like I said, you can tell by my age, mine was the last class at St. X High School that was using manual typewriters. I mean, not the plug-in kind. I mean, the true manual.

Wow.

I was such a terrible typist that when Bob White, who is a famous high school sports reporter for the Courier for a long time, came in and talked about journalism on career day, I just thought I'll never be able to type on deadline. So I kind of gave up that dream for a while and was already working in high end restaurants as a kid to pay my way through St. I was reading restaurant trade magazines all the time and when a girlfriend said, you know about word processing, don't you? It's like, what? Yeah, I've heard of it. What about it? She said, you don't have to be a great type. She can just correct everything as you go. It's like, wow, that's great. And I bought my first laptop, an 11 and a half pound NEC multi-sync. And I thought, well, maybe I can make this writing thing go. And thankfully, I had a long career in restaurants, and I became a restaurant reporter for 29 years.

Wow.

Well, Steve, we're going to get into all of that here in just a minute. But as we always say, we don't like to spend a whole lot of time chit chatting up front. We like to get straight to that first drink.

Yeah, because it'll be turned off soon. Is this guy going to talk? Oh my gosh.

Well, I don't think that, but nevertheless, they are wanting to hear about the whiskey, right? Yeah, let's talk whiskey, man. All right, so the fellows here at Justin's House of Bourbon have provided us with our first bottle that we have in our glasses. And this is a Charles Medley distillery. This is a Medley exclusive selection. It's a barrel pick that was performed by the Bourbon mafia. It's about eight and a half years old. I'm told it's Heaven Hill Juice. It's 120 and a half proof. Let's check it out.

I'd have to say cheers, guys. Cheers, fellas.

Can't reach across the room to clean glasses. Yeah, we're about 10 or 12 feet apart, but that actually makes for good radio, I think.

Or in here, they got a beautiful speakeasy in here that's really hidden behind. They've got a nice wall of shelves with bourbon and whiskey on it. Some, some old dusties up on the wall. But behind that is actually a door that you could walk into a speakeasy and this big leather couch that Steve's setting on two big giant leather chairs that me and Jim are sitting on and Everything in this room screams Kentucky, except for, I got a damn warthog on a wall over there staring at me.

It'd be like a razorback.

It'd be the closest thing, right?

I've never seen no razorback look like that. That's one of those, that's one of those African ones.

Oh yeah. That's definitely a African warthog. uh like on we were talking about that earlier it's like that like on the lion king lion king yeah yeah i've tapped the the depth of my porcine knowledge when it comes to those beasts this is oh it's a definitely a beautiful room got a photo up there of uh churchill downs with twin spires

Yeah, you're talking a little bit about the place. They position themselves as a vintage whiskey shop, because as far as we know, they're the only place, certainly in Kentucky, and perhaps even the United States, where you can buy and sell vintage whiskey. So if you've got something old to bring here to sell, or just to come up and show it to them and get a story on it, and maybe an appraisal, they'll do that.

Yeah. So that is a result of some recent legislation, right, within the last year or two? Positive legislation.

It would be, I think it'd be two years as of December. Okay. So that's great. Yeah. It was fantastic for these guys and for collectors out there who want to unload some of their stock, have an opportunity to do it legally.

Right. Absolutely. So what do you get on this, Mike? What do you think?

I don't know Maya, I got a cold so this thing is messing me up but I can smell that oak in there.

It leads with rye for me then there's a bunch of orange coming up behind it and then plenty of oak. What about you Jim?

Yeah I got the citrus but it's a little bit, I don't know if you can get a sour citrus on your nose, it's a little bit more of a sour citrus for me. The opposite of sweet, but I do get the oak on the tail end of it. I haven't tasted it yet. That's all on the nose. Um, yeah, the rise, the rise apparent, the spice comes through on the right. If it's heaven hill, it's probably heaven hill.

Reg, just a 78, 12, 10. Was that the 78 corn, 12% ride, 10% right. Malted barley.

I've already tasted it. You know me, Jim. I like to just start drinking the whiskey. Everybody's sitting here smelling it.

I'm like, Hey, when you got a cold, you might as well go straight to that.

I was at a very old Barton today or just Barton 1792 distillery day with Danny Kahn, the master of stiller. And he said, I probably nose a whiskey 20 times before I taste it. 20. Really? He just said, it explains itself to me through my nose first. Well, it was interesting. Jotted it down. I'll try to wait 20 sniffs. 20 sniffs. So Steve, how do you nose a whiskey?

What's your technique?

Mine's pretty standard, like everybody else's. I'll put my nose close to the glass. If not in the glass, open my mouth and just breathe through my mouth to draw it into my nose just to not blast it out with too much vapor, especially with 120 proof whiskey like this. Kind of greet you. You don't even have to draw it in too much with a whiskey this high proof, don't you think?

Yeah. You know what, GM, this tastes like a Cinnamon Jolly Rancher to me. Yeah, that's what I get from it.

Cinnamon Jolly Rancher. It's been a while since I had this. I'm not a big cinnamon candy fan, but Jolly Ranchers I do like. I'm trying to think of which ones I like. I like those sour apple ones.

I was a watermelon Jolly Rancher. Yeah. I think it's fine. It's a little thin. Probably pretty good. He said eight year.

Eight and a half. Eight and a half years. Didn't have a ton of body. Well, it's my first taste of the day, so I have to get a little time. It takes me a while to acclimate. Is that the right word? Acclimate? Sure, sure. It takes me a while to acclimate after that first drink. So the nose, I can usually do pretty good, but it hits the palate for the first time in the day. It's like, well, let me try again. Usually it's a little bit bitter for me on the first drink.

I don't know about you, but it is for me. Well, that bottle, I'm looking at the bottle itself, it's kind of a throwback. It's nothing special, right?

Right. It's a three-color label. I guess some of the Medlut labels I've seen are, what are they, blue and gray? Some of the higher-end barrel picks, maybe? That one's pretty simple. Stands out, though. Not a lot of white label, black letter, red banded labels that I'm aware of.

I'm just, just a simple bottle to really, I wouldn't even say that's a wine bottle. Is it?

Um, no, that's not long enough.

Their shoulders are too straight. It's short, a little bit shorter. It's expert over here, man. He's schooling us. He is old restaurant boy.

So do you know where that was bottled at? If Heaven Hill did it, I would imagine they bottle it themselves, right? Actually, it says distilled in Kentucky, as we know, bottled by Charles Medley Distillery in Fairfield, California.

Fairfield, California. Why would they haul it all that far?

I don't know.

It must have been a cost matter.

Well, anyway. Medley used to be in Owensboro. I guess they don't have a bottling facility there anymore.

Who's in Owensboro now? Tyler. Are they the only facility in Owensboro? As far as I know. But, you know, trust that as far as you and I are sitting from each other. Yeah, somebody was talking to me the other day about going to Owensboro for the weekend. And I thought, you know, I think I'd like to do that.

It's an absolutely terrific town, under heralded. I can't tell you how often I pitched that as a travel story when I was going down there six and seven years ago and the riverfront was, you know, the rebuilding of that was coming to life. And the New York Times had been there already and things were happening. The restaurant scene was picking up. Unfortunately, there was a fantastic brew pub there that's no longer there. Gambrinas was the name of it. But it's got a lot of life down there, but especially you got grandkids. That Riverfront Park is absolutely outstanding. And it's a very hospitable, affordable area to go. Go to Owensboro. Yeah, we'll do it for sure.

They're famous for the barbecue there for Kentucky.

Yeah, and I like Old Hickory of all the ones that are down there.

Not a Moonlight guy.

I think it's okay. I love their mutton though. But I think their other barbecue's okay.

I've been to both of them. I don't know, I'm not a particular fan of mutton. I just think of the old deused up sheep. Just deused up.

Tenderized. Can't do nothing else with that thing.

Tenderized, Michael.

Yeah. Tenderized all right or toughened up. Yeah Well Steve you have been on the show once before you and Mike sort of met up at the Kentucky barbecue festival over in Danville down at the Wilderness Trail Distillery Yeah, it's fantastic earlier in the year and and and I think you had a nice little interview It was kind of short, but I think it let us know that we needed to get you back on the show and We also came down to the Bardstown Bourbon Festival this year. A lot of people were up here in Louisville for the events going on up here. Mike and I decided to go to Bardstown for the day and you were interviewing a couple of fine people down there.

Yeah, I was hired by the festival to take their first stab at what was kind of an education stage. And I got to interview a bunch of master distillers and other people who are influential in the business. And we wanted to be able to introduce the guests of the festival to maybe personalities that they hadn't seen before and let them listen in as I talked to these master distillers. And what was interesting was there was so much foot traffic in that area of the festival that I don't think a lot of attendees listened, but one of the vendors, several of the vendors who were nearest actually came up and said, you know, we're a captive audience. We can't leave our booths and we're enjoying this. We've never heard these stories told by these great master distillers and other people in the industry. This is great. You're asking great questions. So we're going to we're going to do it again in 2020, but we're going to change the format somehow.

Well, I really enjoyed Mike and I stood there for a while. We listened to your interview of Fred and Freddie. No. Oh, my gosh. Was that great? Those guys are absolutely hilarious. They're so much fun. And hats off to you. What a great interview. I mean, it really was well done. Very. Really did we wanted to get around and see some other things but I didn't want to leave while you were interviewing because it was going so Well, it was so entertaining Those two go at it. It's just so much fun.

Did you see the early morning one where I dropped my notes? I What time was it?

We got there. Well, we went to the pancake breakfast down there first.

Oh you were early Well, I had you know, I did I think I 12 to 14 interviews in two days. And so I had to have some questions and be prepared. And a breeze came up right before Fred and Freddie and I were supposed to start. I blew my notes off my lap and I said, damn. And Freddy No leans forward and he says, Steve, I believe you're the first guy ever to beat Fred No to a cuss word in an interview. Because I sent him to a hot mic. And that was as bad as it got. I try to keep my tongue in order, but that set the tone and we just had a ball. And of course, Fred was off the leash, which I love. You know, few people can use that kind of language and still entertain everybody. He loves a good interview. I guess he does.

He's a great interview, period. He needs a book done about him. Well, you know, you talked a little bit about school and your writing. Can you sort of take us through that kind of early time that got you into food, into writing?

I was, like I was saying, I needed to help pay my education at St. X and a friend was in the restaurant industry and he got me a job as a busboy at Casa Grazani. And for listeners who may not know what Casa Grazani was, it was a very high end restaurant that gave life to Louisville's restaurant boom. And I was fascinated with the business and wasn't sure what I wanted to do in college. And I stayed in for quite a while, became a chef, really got interested in food and preparing it. Eventually became a food writer, restaurant writer to get out of the business because it was fun while it lasted, but 11 years was enough. But along the way, I began networking with other writers and other publications. and got to go to some whiskey events. And this is one of my favorite stories. Do you guys ever meet Dawn Bristol when she was running the tourism in Bardstown? I was not yet a bourbon drinker. I loved tequila and gin. And I was there for Southern Living in Bartstown, and we pull up to the Heaven Hill Bourbon Heritage Center to see Larry Cass. Did you guys get to meet Larry before he retired? I've met Larry, but you've got to get him on the show. Yeah. And Dawn, who's a firecracker, said, Steve Coombs, you get your butt out of my car right now. Go in there and do a bourbon tasting. I'm kidding you. That was the tone. I'd known her for about four hours and just yes, ma'am. OK, I'll go to it. And that was the day literally that I started to like whiskey and like like a lot of people. I had some run ins with it. They weren't so pop. You know, it was so fantastic when I was 16, 17, 18. I shouldn't have been drinking it anyway. And I had about a 30 year layoff until that day. And the two whiskies I had were Elijah Craig 94 proof and Larseny 92 proof. And those lit my mouth on fire. Isn't that hilarious? Those softie whiskies that I love today. But it all started to kind of come together for me, and that started me down the bourbon road, as it were, and enjoying it. And once I really got hooked on it, it leapt past any spirit, any wine, any beer that I've ever enjoyed. Bourbon is just my favorite.

So it's got you by the tail.

Oh, the tail, the tongue, whatever you want to call it. I just love it.

There's just so much out there. You know, I think when I drink like a vodka, a vodka is just to me, almost all of them are saying a little bit difference here and there, but not a whole lot.

You got to taste them next to each other to find any dissimilarities for sure.

For bourbons, they're just some of them are so complex and so different than each other that I just love it. I did, you know, that corn sometimes that maybe that's what brings it all different and the oak, I guess.

There's so much science to it, as I'm sure many of your guests have talked about, that change it all. And a lot of them will say about 10% of this is just dark arts. That you do everything you can to control the process, but there's some uncontrollables that really make it magic and delicious.

So you're actually controlling a very small percentage of the overall result when you're trying to control it.

Well, I would think it's maybe the opposite and not necessarily to disagree with you, but maybe to linger with a thought for a second. I think that you can control your grain choice, your distillation, your fermentation, distillation, maturation. But man, when it's sitting there with every passing year, it's doing something you don't have any control over. And as we've all tasted before, barrels sitting next to barrels that were distilled the same day, filled the same day can taste really, really different. And so it's like child rearing. You can only do so much.

But we've all heard, you know, people spat out numbers about how much Impact barrel has on the overall flavor of a whiskey, and I don't know how you can actually quantify that how you can say this percentage is barrel I think that's just a gut feeling by a lot of people But it is a significant part of the flavor comes from the barrel right and that is out of your control somewhat You got a pretty good idea what's gonna happen, but it is sure it can take different directions there and But I guess it is important to make sure that what's going into that barrel is as consistent as possible so that it's not going too far left or right once it enters the barrel. I guess the barrel can't fix anything, right?

You know, Andrea Wilson from Michter said this morning, I was with a media group for the Bourbon Classic that's in town right now, and we were at Michter's doing a tour, and she said, you cannot fix bad distillate in a barrel. People think you can't, oh, it'll age out. She said, garbage in, garbage out. I think it's true.

That's why so much time is spent by the distilleries in tasting New Make before it goes in the barrels. All their quality control and everything goes into making sure that that clear liquid is as best as it can be before it enters wood. Absolutely.

And then, you know, it's oak. But how different is that oak? What tree did that come from? I mean, some of these things at Buffalo Trace is really digging into to question those things.

Yeah. So you're over at Michter's today, you said. How do you feel like that place is doing?

Oh my gosh, they said they being the people that work there said they're just blown away at how much busier earlier in the week it's always becoming. It used to be that most of the tourist traffic or visitor traffic was on the weekends and now that's That's always stacked up. Now it's backing up deeper into the week. And they're all just saying it's crazy busy, which is fantastic. So you were at Fort Nelson. That's correct. That's correct. The Shively distillery is not open to public tours. It's open to private tours.

I don't know if they took you over there too and saw that.

They have in the past until Fort Nelson opened. And now that's the place to be. And it's a joy to be there for sure because they have that wonderful bar. Drink, what do they call them? AMPMs. It's basically a breakfast Manhattan, if you will, that we had this morning at 8.30. That is not a bad thing.

That's never bad to start that early, right?

You know, sometimes we record early in the day and I think once you get going, it, it, it doesn't feel early, but you're going to get that first one in you.

We started at six, six, I think it's like six o'clock in the morning, one time to record and I'd gotten off work at six o'clock in the morning and then I came over to Jim's and we're like, Hey, we got to get this episode done. So we, we started drinking right then.

It doesn't seem to matter to me anymore when you start.

They say that your palate is at its best in the early morning.

It's funny you mentioned that, Jim. Do you guys know Paul Pecalt, this great spirits reviewer? I don't know him. When he does his reviews, his wife sets out everything he's going to review the night before and all his glassware. And then the next morning at seven, he starts and he goes through his whole tasting list, whatever that might be until 10 a.m. So no, no brushing his teeth. He does all that night before and, you know, tries to keep everything very controlled in his tasting room.

Do you feel like your palate is well developed? Do you feel like you have a pretty good palate, at least as far as you're concerned?

I do. And it's funny. A lot of that is my restaurant background. I think it was good at that part of the job. And it was funny. Back in that day, every single person in the restaurant except a dishwasher was set down for wine tastings. And so I was getting that kind of training from the time I was 16 onward. And so I was very comfortable getting into a discussion of what I'm tasting and what I'm smelling. Now, I've got friends that say your palates amazing. It's like a palates experienced. Do I maybe have a better nose than some? Maybe. But there are people that that have noses that I think are just, you know, outstanding and off the charts, you know, one of those super taster types. So I'd give myself a B plus at the very least for that.

Well, we've got some listeners out there, I'm sure, who are saying to themselves every day, how do I get my palate to be better? Not necessarily to the level of a reviewer or something like that, but what can I do to exercise my palate? What can I do to improve my whiskey tasting abilities and what would you say the top two or three things are they can do?

Man, that's a great question. Westport Whiskey and Wine is a store here in Louisville that has a big tasting room and bar and they have classes constantly. and you can get into those classes and let somebody lead you through what you probably should be tasting, describe the spirit for you, you know, what's provenance, you know, especially if it's tequila, you know, where to come from, the highlands or the lowlands or whatever, you know, and to give you a picture of that. And then when you're around other people and they're encouraging them to say, what do you taste? What do you smell? And you can start to identify, oh yeah, I really do taste brown sugar. I really do taste minerality, all that kind of stuff that, I could taste it, but I couldn't articulate it. And people say, oh, the power of suggestion steers people hither and yon in the wrong ways. I think that's nonsense. I think it's the power of just articulating it and sharing it. I mean, it's kind of a collective knowledge thing.

I mean, if you don't taste it, you don't taste it. But if somebody mentions something like I'm getting you know, I don't know something crazy here, bubble gum, let's say, and you say, wow, yeah, I am, I do get that. That's a memory thing, right? I mean, that's them causing you to pull out that memory you have of bubble gum in the past and saying, yeah, that's what I taste. I don't know that the power of suggestion, I kind of tend to agree with you, I don't know that suggestion sends you down that path to tasting something you don't.

That's well put I think it's really well put and I think that being courageous enough to say I'm not getting any of that today we were at Barton's and it was a Another experienced spirits riders sitting next to me and he kept talking about getting a bunch of cocoa and I was like I'm not getting it And there was somebody else across the table. Now, I'm not getting it either, but there was somebody across from him who said, I am getting it. We have 7 billion pallets on this planet. We're not all going to get the same things. Absolutely.

So what do you feel like when people say, oh, me and you had a couple of discussions about that, when somebody says, well, that's horrible whiskey, or I have a refined pallet and I find that's trash whiskey or something. What's your thought process on that?

Gosh, you and I have had a little bit of discussion on that, that people are rude in social media to say that kind of stuff. It's a drain pour. I wouldn't drink that if that were the last beverage on earth, that kind of nonsense. I think most whiskey makers are well-intentioned in trying to put out a good product, and you should at least be kind in your rejection of it. And you don't have to criticize somebody else because they don't like the same things that you like. It's just not my go-to profile. True. And there are some. I'll get a lot of press samples, and some are just about undrinkable. I'll send a message back to the publicist or the distiller and say, you know, I'm not going to review this. I really don't like it. Mine is but one palette. Maybe you'll find a reviewer that does, but I'm not going to trash you in the press. I don't think it's kind. But then, of course, I don't tell them what I do afterwards. Sometimes it just gets dropped in a bottle and all in a campfire. It just goes away and it's kind of a fun show, but not every whiskey is good, but I'm just not going to rip anybody for.

I think that me and Jim both believe that stuff. I say that when people, if we post something on social media, one of us is probably going to like that, but sometimes we might not even like it. We just, we post it. because we're asking that question. What's your thoughts on this? And if it's a whiskey I like and you don't disagree with us, you could ship it to us and I'll drink it for you or Jim would drink it.

And then you'll put it in the fire. I'll sit down by the fire and drink it. Yeah, some of those expressions are, I won't name the distillery, but I got three bottles and they were all cast strength and they were all two years old and they were darn near mahogany. So, you know, it was a small barrel and it was just hot and there were so many elements that you could taste if you're an experienced drinker and think, if they just waited two more years, this would probably start to mellow out and become a good spirit. And this spirit probably isn't best at cash strength. What would it taste like at 90? So I think sometimes distillers, especially craft distillers, jump into it thinking, well, it's gotta be high proof, that's what everybody wants. No, not really. The vast majority don't want high proof.

I like it. And there are things that are good at high proof, and there are things that are much better proofed down.

Absolutely.

Well, Steve, we're going to take a short break here. Well, any any last any last comments on this, Mike? The the Charles Medley.

I think it's very like you said, it doesn't coat the mouth like I would have thought it would. I thought it would have been very oily. It's not at all. It's kind of drying, actually. Yeah. Fast, fast finish.

I mean, I'm enjoying it, but it's yeah.

Not my favorite. Not my favorite.

Well, guys, we'll take a short break here. And when we come back, Steve, we're going to dive a little bit deeper into what you do on a on a daily basis and talk a little bit about what you have going on. And we'll drink another whiskey. Sound good? Yes, sir. All right. We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Loghead's Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Loghead's Home Center, nestled in the hills of Kentucky, is an industry leader in building handcrafted rustic furniture. Family-owned and operated, they take pride in offering only the very best for their customers. The Logheads, and that's what they like to call themselves, are skilled woodcrafters who are passionate about creating rustic furniture for people who appreciate the beauty of natural wood. Owners Tommy and Gwen don't just sell the rustic lifestyle, they live it. And you can be sure that Loghead's furniture will always be handcrafted in Kentucky by artisans who embrace the simple way of life. Loghead's rustic furniture is made from northern white cedar, a sustainable wood that's naturally rot and termite resistant. Its beauty and quality will add warrants to your earthy lifestyle for generations to come. Be sure to check out everything they have to offer at LogHeadsHomeCenter.com. And while you're at it, give Tommy and Gwen a shout on Facebook or Instagram at LogHeadsHomeCenter. All right, we are back and we are at Justin's house suburban with Steve Coombs and in the first half we enjoyed a pour from Medley and in the second half, Steve, what have you brought for us?

Well, as I maybe said earlier in the show, I was one of, I think, 11 media dorks, as we like to call ourselves, writers that were invited to Mikhter's Fort Nelson distillery this morning for an event to do a lot of tasting, do a lot of discussing about their whiskeys and We got some wonderful swag. We were given each a bottle of their barrel strength ride that you can fill. It's an experience. It's part of the experience area. You put the bottle under the spout and it comes directly from a barrel and you get to label it. And they put it in an absolutely beautiful package. And when Mike was telling me, you know, bring something you like, I was like, I'm not going to be dragging a bottle of whiskey around all day. And when I was walking up here from 21C, where most of the reporters are staying, it's like, hey, I got a bottle right here. So this is something that you can only get in Fort Nelson distillery. Michter's does not disclose age statements or match bills, but it is their barrel strength rye. And I think that expression is absolutely delicious. It's one of my favorites. And we're going to taste that now.

So this is your bottle pick.

No, not mine. It just was, I had my hand on the valve that allowed the whiskey to flow into the bottle. So I didn't pick this specifically, but I was glad to be picked by Mikhters to get it.

Now we had talked about that earlier, that there's a couple of distilleries now that are allowing you to fill bottles. And Mikhters, I think, I think they were the first, were they not?

I think so.

Yeah. I think angels envy is doing it now. And then we had bluegrass distillers in Lexington on and they let you sort of fill your own bottle directly from the barrel there. They've got a barrel with a petcock in it and you just sort of open that and very interesting. It works all the same. I'm sure. So yeah, let's check out your, uh, Michter's barrel strength right here.

A lot of grain on the nose. It's beautiful. Sometimes Rob presents to me, there's almost a weird background iris, like purple iris grape note that I get. I know that's a weird one to throw out there. Purple iris grape. Stick your nose in a purple iris. Sometimes it'll smell like cheap Kool-Aid. Yeah, so I get the spicy grape. I get a little bit of spicy grape. It's just kind of strange. But oh gosh, you know, big caramel background, toasted oak. I get citrus in that too.

Yeah, definitely a little bit of citrus. Kind of a little bit more of a for me, a little bit more of a lime citrus than an orange citrus. Interesting. All right, let's taste her. That's a lot of spice.

It's either one hundred and four or one hundred and seven proof.

Is it? And again, they don't they don't mention their their match bills. But would you say this is probably in the 60 to 75 percent range?

Lower, lower than that in terms of right. Yeah, they they do state that there's as much more of a Kentucky style ride, which is 55. Exactly. At least 51 percent to be called right. And then not much higher than that.

Now, we've got we've got other rise that are in that same realm. Like, for example, the the Pikesville, which is at 51, the old Forster's what? Sixty five.

Oh, they're Mashville.

Yeah, I don't know. And I should know that. I think that's true.

Pikesville, you're correct on.

And I don't remember the Knob Creek or even if it's if they put it out.

I don't know that it's put out. Yeah. But It's just amazing how different all those are, and as close as their mash bills are, then it jumps off into fermentation, distillation, and maturation, and you really get very unique products.

Mike? Do you get any whore hound?

A little bit. I'm not a rye guy, and this ain't my favorite rye whiskey ever. I think if it was a higher rye content, I probably would like it more, because it would bring that sweetness through, I think.

I'm trying to think what rise that you really liked. And there's not, there's not many. No, not a whole lot in the world.

So were you a fan of wilderness trail when we were down there?

I am. I love all their products. Maybe it is just Pat and Shane, how they are. And to me, I wouldn't say a bad chef just cause he has a great personality to make us food good.

Like him just don't like what he cooks.

Sometimes that helps out though. I know they're putting a lot of work into it and their rice is good. I got a bottle of that on the shelf. It's a lot different.

Very fruity, very experiment forward. And I think that afternoon after you and I met and did the interview, they rolled out some barrel proof expressions of their rye, the bourbon and the, what was it? Either a weeded bourbon or just straight. They don't have a wheat whiskey, do they? No, so it had to been a weeded bourbon. They have a weeded bourbon. But these were six and seven years old and out freaking standing. So different from the fours. I'm sorry, Mike. Oh, you're good.

By the time that I got to you, I was already well past where I should have been. Me and my wife had got there like nine o'clock in the morning. And as soon as we walked into the to their offices there, I got a glass stuck in my hand and said, hey, try this. And then try this and try this and try that. And then we go back to interview Big Mo Cason back in his bar with each other. So we go inside there and he pulls out a big old handle of Weller's Special Reserve and he's like, I don't have no glasses, so we're just going to suck from the bottle. I was like, all right, so they're me, Big Mo Casey and my wife sitting in the back of his barbecue trailer, just sucking on a bottle.

The emphasis is on Big. Yeah. He's a big dude. He's about your size though. We're about the same size. Yeah.

Yeah. And then their Four Roses was there too. They had a tent set up there and they're giving me drinks. And, you know, every time I'd make a loop, Pat and Shane would grab me and say, here, you don't have any drink in your hand, so let's get you something else. And then I'd come back over there and that, hey, let's try this, try this trip. Hey, try this mixed drink.

For listeners who are wondering what that's like, we are lucky people, aren't we? To get that kind of access to these people who are so friendly. This industry has yet, as far as I know, to have many egos in it, and they're just as friendly as they present themselves to guys like you and me. I maybe a little bit because we're tied to the media, but most of it's like your friends are going to treat you like this. And it's amazing to be to it. Don't you feel lucky to be in that circle?

Well, I mean, you were talking about like Lisa Wicker and she says, hey, I want you guys to come down to my house in Barstown. And we just sat on our porch and watch traffic go by and we'll drink the thousand bottles of whiskey that we have.

I heard that and I was envious. I was envious.

Yeah, but I think that part of the bourbon culture to me is the greatest thing of it's almost like your next door neighbor every time you go to Distiller. Hey, how you doing? Here's some whiskey. Let's get you a drink in that.

How much of that is Kentucky guys?

Do you think, I mean, we are a friendly state. Well, I think it's Southern, maybe not just Kentucky, but it's kind of a Southern hospitality thing. I think, I mean, I, I feel like, um, I felt pretty comfortable in Tennessee as well.

What about you? Oh yeah. Well, I think you're right. I think it is a Southern thing. I've lived all over the United States, lived up Michigan and Maine and lived in Virginia, which they would say they're South, but a lot of Northern, um, influence there, I guess, but something in the South is just different. You know, whenever you go in a restaurant and you say, Hey, get myself some tea. You know, for a fact that you're going to get a sweet tea, you're not going to get just regular old tea in a cup that's hot. Nobody would ever bring you that. They'd bring you some sweet tea.

Yeah.

They might even bring you a piece of cornbread with it.

So, so this is not your favorite. You're saying on the whiskey.

No, and I, you know, there, I do have a, my favorite expression from, from, uh, Michter's is the toasted sour mash. I think that's to me, that's for me, that's their best product.

That's a little soft for me. Very flavorful, but a little soft. I think that's where Mike kind of, that's kind of where his comfort zone is. I think Mike really likes those soft and sweet bourbons.

He's a weeder guy, no doubt about it. Oh, that's right. I have been dabbling into some cast drinks lately. It just, they got to have that dark fruits and cherries and chocolate to me. I like that. You're right. Sweet. That sweetness in that whiskey. Do you like, like the maker's mark private selects? Yeah. I got a couple of bottles of that at the house and I think they're, they're pretty delicious. Oh, I think they're at RC six is good. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think I, I won't say I have ever, I might probably do have ever expression that makers Mark has just cause I want to have a great collection of weeded whiskies. If there's it's out there. I'm like, you know, I see it. I want to have it just so I could have it on my shelf and I could go back and revisit it every once in a while or pour three out and I'll compare them. And to me, that's a fun, fun thing to do.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And they're easy to drink by the fire.

Well, for me guys, I do like the mickters, uh, right whiskey. In fact, I think for me, uh, I like the ride a little bit better than the bourbon that that's just because I'm a spicy guy. I like spicy things. This is a, you know, it's not, uh, it's not a 95 five for any, by any means, but it's a good, solid, good, solid ride. And at barrel strength, I think it's good. I think for me, it's, it's something that I could have on the shelf all the time.

Yeah, and something that it's a bit of a bias for me with Mikters is I've done a lot of food pairings with these for big events. Like this weekend, I've got one for 150 people. This one's with Barton. But I do a lot of business with Mikters and I do a lot of food pairings with Mikters and We don't really know what it is about their whiskeys. Perhaps it's a low barrel entry proof, perhaps it's their particular mash bill, whatever, but they pair almost magically with food. And this whiskey, because of its spice, this barrel strength or I would pair. I'm certain really well with country ham, fatty country ham. It would definitely pair well with probably a middle-aged cheese, maybe a year or so old, because it's got enough spice to fight back at that fat. So I look at those things in a couple of different dimensions like you're talking about.

For me, that could change the taste of the whiskey for me and make me enjoy it a little bit better or maybe appreciate it a little bit better if I'm eating or pairing something with it. It probably doesn't help that I have a cold today and I have a cough drop in my mouth too and drinking whiskey.

So that's where that whorehound came from.

Yeah, that was a great call, by the way. I mean, I've only gotten one whiskey. I don't even know what it was, but maybe it was in a review, but I said whore hound candy. And when you said it in that show, I thought, I know what he's talking about.

Yeah, we were. Well, we did with a bourbon lens and those guys are a lot younger than us. And they were like, what's whore hound?

Is that a bad word? And then he said, haven't you ever been to Tractor Supply? I said, no, what's Tractor Supply? All right.

We're starting at ground zero here.

Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of Country Ham, you have a book out on Country Ham, don't you?

Yeah. And forgive me for not even thinking of bringing you guys a couple of copies. I'll see you around and I'll make sure to get you some. Fred Minick, my buddy, I was his boss a long time ago, so I knew Fred when, which is kind of fun to say. And a publisher approached him and said, you want to write a book on Country Ham? He says, I don't know a thing about it, but I know somebody who might. And that was how I wound up writing Country Ham, a Southern tradition of hogs, salt and smoke. And this true story is is is fabricated as it sounds. But I was reading, you know, the manuscript late one night and I was sipping bourbon and eating some country ham that had come from Nancy Newsome. Fantastic ham producer in Western Kentucky and I thought, Eureka, this stuff tastes good. These things taste good together because the fat in the ham coats the palate and the proof in the spirit scrubs it clean and it illuminates so many other flavors. Not long after I started doing pairings with country ham and then we wound chocolates into it. Then we wound cheeses and I'm going to do one here next week at Justin's House of Bourbon. It's going to have hot beef brisket and all these different things come together. Food and whiskey should be treated just like wine and food should be because it really elevates the flavors in the food. You just got to figure out what pairs well.

So I think if you're, you know, if you're at home, and you're thinking about having a whiskey night or bourbon night at your house and you want to put some things out for people to munch on along with bourbon, it would be a good thing to sit down and do some pairings and try to decide what goes good together. That's a lot of fun, Jim. Yeah, I think it is. You know, I would love to... to pick your brain sometime and just talk about some of your favorite pairings. Things that you've done for entertaining, for example, that have been real hits.

I can tell you, make it fatty. So chocolate, ham, charcuterie in general, as long as it's not overly garlicky like salami or something like that. Stay away from hot stuff. My wife and I thought one time, well, let's see how whiskey pairs with our spicy chicharrones. Bad idea. Doesn't work. Bad idea. I mean, we were breathing fire. Cheeses work great. Again, we're always going back to fat content. It just goes really well with it. But I was at a restaurant one night. And the chef was a client of one of the guests at our table and he kept sending out dishes. We never saw the menus and we were just eating and eating and eating. And I was nursing a two ounce pour of Stag Junior throughout that entire meal and it matched everything. So it's exploratory at this point. Woodford Reserve has the basic flavor wheel experiment, but that's just a taste of a cranberry, a taste of a nut, a taste of something orange. Put it next to your steak. Put it next to whatever dish and give it a shot. How else are you going to know?

So, hams. You wrote that book. What's the best ham here in Kentucky?

You know, it's funny to ask that because I would say what's my favorite would be the better question because people have strong opinions about ham like to do whiskey. But it's really relative sometimes to the livestock they're getting. So what might be my favorite one year might not be my favorite next year. But what I love and love to work with and will be using Saturday at the Bourbon Classic is Broadbent's, which is terrific. That's in Katawa, Kentucky. I'm going to be using Alan Benton's Smoky Mountain Country Hams. That's from Maryville, Tennessee. and I'm going to be using the Tenchuto as it's called from the hammery in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. It's a play on prosciutto, obviously made in Tennessee. And the thing is that the handmaker guy named Bob Woods and I were talking for the book six years ago and he said, Steve country ham ain't nothing but hillbilly prosciutto. I was like, you're exactly right. That is the truth. That is the truth. Except we, you know, the different only difference for listeners who care is prosciutto ham is only salted. It's not, there's no sugar in the cure and it's not smoked like we do here in the South and not even Everybody in Kentucky smokes their hams. You can almost without fail draw the line at I-65 and if you go west, it's smoked. If you go east, it's not smoked.

Virginia hams are salted.

Well, Edwards smokes theirs. Edwards is an absolutely terrific ham. Their facility burned down a few years ago, and they're finally getting hams back into the mix, into the market, I should say. So that's one of my favorites as well.

I remember being stationed in Virginia, and we went over to Surrey, Virginia.

That's where it is, baby. Yeah.

And they had a ham over there that's almost 200 years old.

Yeah, I think that's a doorstop.

They were like, they're cutting it up that day. Let people try it. And I was like, I don't know if I eat that thing, but I tried it.

Was it like saddle leather? Saddle as it might have been tender compared to what that thing is.

Took me back to what I thought, like a 1700s or 1800s sailor would have had to eat. And that's what I thought.

You're dreaming good there, man.

So this whole country ham thing is not all that different than bourbon, right? I mean, the recipes and the processes that are used to make country hams are handed down through generations. Some of these families are still making the hams the same way they're their forebearers did years ago.

It even goes deeper than that, Jim. The climate here was, let's just say, because it really has warmed up. I don't care what anybody says. What causes it, we don't know. But it has warmed up to where you can't cure outside safely. But this area of the world, if you trace it around the globe, is the ham curing belt, as it were, because the climate was perfect with really cold winters. where you could salt the meat, hang it outside, and it was safe. It's a giant refrigerator. It's nature's refrigerator. And then as the weather warmed up gradually over the spring, the salt penetrates further. A greater amount of water comes out of the ham, firms up that meat, and cures it. So it's a little bit like whiskey in the sense that the weather plays a big factor in how that ham is going to be aged and how whiskey is going to age and move into and out of that wood. So we're in a magnificent place to be able to do both things and really point to them as part of our heritage.

I mean, bourbon is obviously, I'm a big fan of bourbon. I'm an even bigger fan of country ham. Dang, I wish I'd known I brought you some. Barbecue is another thing that really gets me going. Oh my gosh.

Do you ever have bourbon with your barbecue?

I have, yeah. Change your life. Yeah, Mike here is just, he's something else on the grill, let me tell you.

I don't know about all that. I can, I can smoke some, some brisket and some, I think my thing is pulled pork and me and Steve had talked about that, my pulled pork recipe. If I have ever mastered anything in my life, besides my chili is my pulled pork. I think that's, that's one thing I got down.

What do you like to drink spirits wise with your pork or do you?

Well, here's the thing. I really don't like pork that much. If it's not ham. I love ham. I grew up, I was raised on a ranch. So, you know, ham and biscuits is just something you eat.

Homemade bacon, though. Homemade bacon, yeah. I do that, too.

And me and Steve had talked about how to make that. But I usually don't even eat my own pulled pork, because by the time I've cooked it and I tasted it and then I serve it to everybody, I'm usually just too tired to do anything else. my whiskey with my whiskey. Yeah, because smoking to me, smoking is an artist. There's somewhat of a science to it. You know, we talked about that. Where's that right temperature at? What are you doing to the meat? Are you dry rubbing it? Are you injecting it? What are you doing? How long are you smoking it? I like to smoke my pulled pork for 17 hours. And that's a long time, right? To make sure that thing's babied a little bit.

Thank God for pellet grills. Yeah.

Pellet smokers have changed the world, I think, when it comes to smoking stuff.

I've still got the old firebox smoker, and I tell you what, I love it, but I don't go to it very often anymore now that I've got a pellet grill.

What I do enjoy doing though, and Jim will tell you this, is we do enjoy entertaining our house. One Christmas we had a Christmas party at our house, but we made it a bourbon theme. So I made an injection out of bourbon. And some other stuff. And I injected a pork loin and then I made a lattice wrap of bacon and then I smoked that thing. And people were just like, this is the most amazing thing I've ever had in my life. But we put out like 10 bourbons for him to try and said, hey, we try to pair it. But the one thing I do enjoy, you said, was a charcuterie board.

Yeah.

And I think that is the best thing ever to drink with bourbon.

Absolutely. And just one more plug for country ham. We import four million cured hams every year to this country. And the best estimates is that we make two and a half million country hams. Now, granted, not every country ham is up to the quality of the prosciutto and the serrano and the Iberico hams coming from Europe. But we have this humongous opportunity in this country to do our own thing. We've got all the land, we've got all the livestock, and we have a huge audience for charcuterie. McDonald's is going to have charcuterie before it's over. Of course, that's an exaggeration, but it's everywhere. I wish that the government would get out of the way. Believe it or not, the USDA is a real hindrance to that right now. Is it so?

I didn't know that.

It's a complex problem.

I'd probably be selling bacon if it wasn't for the USDA right now, because there's just so many regulations that says you can't be pretty much a farm producer anymore. You've got to almost be grandfathered into it. And people taste my bacon, and they're like, oh, that's the most amazing stuff ever. And you're like, it's the easiest thing I ever made in my life.

It is.

It's so easy. It's easy to make it safe.

Speaking of making, you also have a book on segue here. You also have a book on home distilling. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

That was kind of funny in that it was a rush job that I was asked to do by a British publisher and I took the job. And it was really a crash course for me to learn what distilling is about. I knew the basics, but I didn't really know as much as I needed to until I started studying for that. The only country in the world where distilling is legal at home is New Zealand. And when you really look into it, you know, if you do it right, it's very safe. I've never done it. I know a lot of people who do it. They believe somebody made an estimate in one of those interviews. There was about 100,000 home distillers in the United States. And if you see how long it takes to get you a drink, you just go to the liquor store in most cases.

You gotta really wanna do it.

But for the guys like Mike who will spend 17 hours smoking a hog shoulder, that's the kind of guy that wants to make his own drink just to do it. And if you do it safely, and it's almost one of those things you gotta screw up badly to screw it up. Frankly, I think it should be allowed. I think the government's biggest issue is that they can't tax it if you're making it at home. But even if they allowed it, I don't think there'd be a ton of people doing it because it takes work. It's not like beer. You can have your drink in four days to three weeks, depending on what you're making. But sitting around drinking white lighting is just not my idea of fun.

So does your book sort of take people through the whole process?

It does. And it talks about different spirits and it talks about how it's made in different markets. And the distillers that I talked to for the book have all gone professional. Of course, the guys doing it illegally didn't want to talk, but they would tell me, well, if you do this, that, and the other, this is how it works. It's out there. People are doing it and doing it safely and making good liquor from what I understand.

I think there's somebody down a creek for me that has a steel down there. I smell some bread every once in a while down in the creek. I'm down there and I'm like, man, that smells like loaves of bread being baked down a creek.

There's some mash going on there. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

To talk about books though, I just finished what I think would be a fantastic book. It's called The Rebirth of Bourbon, Building a Tourism Economy in Small Town, USA. It is about the economic impact of the bourbon industry on Bartstown. Oh, OK. And the stories that I got out of that are fantastic. It's fun. It's neat to see what this little town is going through. Some real growing pains as the industry grows around it is forcing it to change and struggling to keep its Bartstown feel. But but it also needs to step up and train its people to make a good old fashioned Manhattan, a Sazerac. And the good thing is they're hospitable. They're lovely, friendly people, but they just need some polish. But what's going on down there is absolutely crazy. And as you're seeing, out-of-towners are driving that change with Barchstown Bourbon Company. Stolesnaya is going to build the Kentucky Owl distillery there, or Kentucky Owl Park, I think it's going to be called.

Is it more of an amusement park is what they're going to have?

No, it is a working distillery, but it's going to be beautiful. It'll have lots of small, they say, lakes, but I haven't called them ponds, and parks, and water features, and things like that. It's just going to be a place that people want to visit. Well, they're building an old quarry, right? That's correct, which is not surprisingly causing some struggles in terms of laying down infrastructure to support a distillery.

Yeah, so we were down, like I mentioned earlier, we were down there for the Urban Festival and Mike and I actually had the opportunity to sit at breakfast with kind of the town fathers and listen to them talk about, you know, what's going on and, you know, how The bourbon world's kind of changed and things have amped up a bit. Were they happy about it? I think that in general, yes. I think they're excited about it. I don't know that they're excited that the attention is being taken away from Bardstown so much because a lot of that A lot of that attention is now focused in Louisville during that time.

I think the urban, the urban bourbon trail has probably taken some away from bars town and they're trying to figure out how to, how do we catch up? How do we modernize our tourism here? Um, make main street more. And it has, it's gotten better in the past couple of years down there.

So hotels and yeah, there's three hotels going up right now down there.

And I think that's what has to happen. I think Frankfurt is a, is a similar situation, maybe not, not so far behind, but you know, Frankfurt has, um, you know, a number of distilleries there. They've got a lot of bourbon tourism that comes to Frankfurt. Uh, but they're not Louisville either, you know? So, I mean, Louisville is kind of that, that city with all the hotels and the, and the urban life and, and, you know, the restaurants and the nightlife and, you know, somebody needs a, needs a place to come to that is, uh, base of operations, you know, kind of when they're visiting. Sure. Little kind of fits that bill.

There's plenty of places to eat downtown Louisville. Same thing in Lexington with the distillery district there. They put a bunch of shops in that old distillery there.

I think it's fantastic what they're doing.

It looks beautiful and it makes you want to come there and do stuff.

And you've got a high end restaurant. And what was it? Middle Fort Kitchen. And you've got Goodfellas Pizza, which is fantastic. Crank and boom ice cream. That's a great place to go if he can find a place to park. Oh, yeah.

That's the only problem. So you got a cider mill there, you got a brewery there, you got everything you would want in one little area. Something for everybody.

Yeah, in Bartstown, in doing the book, the publisher had initially thought that we could wring this theme out of it, that it was like the Napification of Bartstown, that what's happening in Bartstown is what happened with wineries in the wine industry in Napa Valley. And there's some similarities, but they're fairly thin, because Bartstown was a 200-year-old town that already had industry there. Napa was nothing but farming. Right. And it grew into it. And you've only got one or two roads coming in and out of there. And it's very boutique. It's very different. But Barchstown, like it or not, is the bourbon capital of the world. And the attention is there. People want to come there. And it's got to figure out a way to make these people keep coming back and spending their money.

And some of that's happened. I think that maybe not moving as fast as it needs to happen. But we actually had Dustin Collins on the show. I don't know if you had an opportunity. Not from everything. So he's a country artist who left, he's a Bardstown native, who left Bardstown to go make his name in country music. He's done an excellent job. He's moving up the charts. He's become quite well known. But when we had him on for an interview, he talked about when he went back to Bardstown to visit. that he felt like it had turned into a bourbon Gatlinville. Gatlinburg. Gatlinburg, sorry. And that when he was growing up there, the only thing they could do is go park in the Walmart parking lot on Saturday nights and drink beer. But now there's stuff to do. There's pubs, and there's restaurants, and there's hotels. So I think they have come a little ways.

I still don't think there's enough down there. How many good restaurants are actually in Barstown? a handful. For me, you know, you do only have five or six restaurants there that I wouldn't.

And Bars and Bourbon Company is the one that really set the stand. I love Mamie's Kitchen, but it's not what I would tell people. You know, I would say if you want kind of a Kentucky experience to go there, but if you want an elevated experience, you need to go to Bars and Bourbon Company.

And that's really the only high end show on Tantan. Right, right. So maybe more restaurants. How do you keep the tourists that come there for just bourbon in Barstown.

One of the answers that was given was again back to like Barstown Burbank Company and Lux Row and even Heaven Hill. These are all on the periphery of the town proper and maybe that's where it's going to grow. It's just maybe in concentric circles and maybe the town proper stays the same. I don't know. I know one thing it's difficult to get real estate there because people are holding onto the properties hoping that they'll be able to sell for a higher dollar. So there's some stagnation there. That's the thing that bothers me a little bit is that the people are so friendly and willing to serve. They just don't know always how to serve. Yeah. So things, you know, the first big step in change is now that the Kentucky Bourbon Festival has a very experienced, they just hired him this week. Events manager, Kenny Miranda Pressie, who managed operations at Churchill Downs for 14 years. I'd say he knows a thing or two about big events. He has done several other things. And David Mandel, the former CEO of the Bardstown Bourbon Company, is the chairman of the board for the Kentucky Bourbon Festival now. So you've got this wise outsider. So many outsiders in this business have a better view of the industry than we do in terms of tourism and entertainment. Nobody has a better view of whiskey making than our insiders. But these people see things that we as Kentuckians don't see because we take it for granted or we haven't had our vision expanded. And I think that's what's incredibly exciting for Barchetown out there.

So, you know, they're still they're still battling with that week or those two weeks there where Louisville has events and they have events and they're both going on at the same time. How do they deal with that?

That's a great question. And part of the answer is they're totally different things. And Bartstown needs to make themselves their totally different thing and own it and grow it and make it attractive. I mean, when you really look at it, Bourbon and Beyond is a rock concert where bourbon gets a lot of attention. That's really it. So it's fairly two-dimensional. There's a lot more that you can do at the Bourbon Festival. You've got land and buildings and people and space.

And Bourbon and Beyond and Louder Than Life and Hometown Rising and all of these things they have going on those couple of weeks there. They're introducing a lot of new bourbon lovers, right?

That's exactly right. So then no way can I knock what they're doing. I mean, they're exposing people to this spirit in this state. You know, everything's good about both things going on. The bourbon festival just has to figure out a way, not even to counterpunch, but to say, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do, I'm not going to be in this title match. I'm going to go establish my own title match.

We could have a different age group there, too. You'd have a younger crowd that goes to the music festivals, and you have a little bit older crowd that wants to go down to more. The Bourbon Festival for me was a lot of craft hints, and it seemed like every distiller was there, had a nice booth there. Nice, beautiful crowds.

They did, and a big step in making those people happy this year was allowing them to make cocktails at their booths. I mean, it's the first time it's ever happened. Yeah, that was really good. It was really good. So it's they've got to start thinking down that road. How can we get is, you know, nobody liked going to the wild turkey booth and buying a ball cap or a shirt. They want to have some wild turkey, for heaven's sakes. Put that in their hands. That's what links Booker Noe always said. You know, if you can get them to taste the product, you're going to have a fan. Well, then I hadn't been able to taste the product for 27 straight years. Now they can do it. That's a step in the right direction.

I thought I was shocked when me and Jim went into the pancake breakfast and they were like, would you like a bourbon mimosa? And I was like, never had one of those before, but I'll, I'll take a big old giant glass of it. Let's start this day off right.

Was it any good?

It was great. Yeah, it was really good. No kidding. Okay. I've never tried for my birthday. Uh, kind of did a birthday weekend getaway down in Nashville and I tried to recreate that bourbon Mosa and I filled up a big Yeti like Tumblr thing full of it.

Yeah, I was a designated driver, so I just...

It was a good weekend.

Well, Steve, you know, we're getting kind of way into the second half here. I want to make sure we give our listeners an opportunity to know where to find you on the internet, on your website, social media. If you want to talk a little bit about some things you have going on here, this episode will probably release towards, I would say, what do you think, Mike, towards the end of March? Yeah. So you've got some things coming up that people would want to check out.

Yeah, there's a lot going on right now, and that's great. So let's start with the web. My website is Steve, I'm sorry, stevecoombs.com. So it's S-T-E-V-E-C-O-O-M-A-Z-O-N-M-I-C-O-L-E-S.com. So go to that and you can find my books there. You can also find my blog and a lot of LinkedIn related articles that I've written. If you want to email me for further information about tastings and pairings, I do lead small to large group pairings and that is steve at stevecoombs.com, which you could also find at the website. In terms of events, we're on a hard run right now and unfortunately about March, the next ones are going to be out of town in St. Louis and they're already sold out. It's just fun to be doing these big ones. Last week we did one for 100 people at the Fraser Museum with McDurs and with Art Eatables, which is a fabulous chocolate supplier here in town. They're the only ones who I think the distilleries actually tie up to and do custom truffles. By the way, I'm going to put in a plug for my friend, Kelly Ramsey. Amazing chocolates here. At the Bourbon Classic, I'm doing this pairing with Barton, which will be fantastic. I'm sure that these additional events will come and you can always find them on Facebook. Just look up Steve Coombs. It comes up. Same for Instagram, Steve Coombs and always reach out, say hello, ask questions, buy books, you know, always communicate. I love I love talking to people, obviously.

Sitting here doing this. Well, Steve, I know you're a busy guy. You know, we're kind of fortunate to have you on the show here. We've had you on twice now and I've got to go listen to that first one. Yeah. It actually Mike, I think Mike, was that your first solo? That was my first like to do anything.

That was it. That I didn't know you'd cut your teeth on me from thrown to the wolves down there. I was pretty nervous too. I was like, Oh man, I got to do all this and

We were all sweating like cheap hamburger. It was a hot day.

Yeah, it was horrible.

Well, Steve, it was definitely a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much. I'm sure our listeners will search you out and check out your website and see what you have going on. And they're going to see you out at events all the time.

All the time.

I'm at a lot of them speaking or just having fun. We'd like to thank Justin's House of Bourbon for hosting our interview session today. Their Speakeasy here is a nice, quiet place. Well, it's been kind of quiet, hasn't it, Mike? Kind of a nice quiet place. It gets busy on weekends, I'll tell you that much. But it's a great room for us and it was very gracious of them to extend this opportunity to us.

And one more little plug for them. If you want to come and look at bottles you'll never see ever again, come look at these whiskey bottles and just leave your wallet somewhere else. I think I saw a full set of Elk Crow Chessmen out there. Five-figure buy.

Yeah. Yeah, I've got a couple of ounces of it. I'm just going to treasure that.

But yeah, they're neat guys. The two Justins. The Justins is plural. Justin Thompson and Justin Sloan, some of the greatest whiskey hunters in the country. Absolutely.

Don't forget, you can find them over in Lexington, too. That's right. That's true.

On Broadway.

Yeah. Mike, you want to take us out? Yeah, you can find us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. at the bourbon road dot com. You can find us email either one of us, either Mike or Jim at the bourbon road dot com. You find me at one big chief on Instagram.

I'm Jay Shannon. Sixty three.

Well, we'll see you on down the bourbon room.

We do appreciate all of our listeners and we'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to hang out with us here on the Bourbon Road. We hope you enjoyed today's show, and if so, we would appreciate if you'd subscribe and rate us a five star with a review on iTunes. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, at The Bourbon Road. That way you'll be kept in the loop on all the Bourbon Road happenings. You can also visit our website at thebourbonroad.com to read our blog, listen to the show, or reach out to us directly. We always welcome comments or suggestions, and if you have an idea for a particular guest or topic, be sure to let us know. And again, thanks for hanging out with us.