243. Blackland Distillery - Fort Worth

Welcome to another trip down the bourbon road with your hosts Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

This episode is brought to you by seldom seen farms bourbon aged maple syrup out of Ohio. Six to nine months in a bourbon barrel. Jim, where can they find it at?

You can find it on seldomseenmaple.com. Get you some.

Hey, this is Big Chief and you're listening to The Bourbon Road. You know how we like to do it. We like to get on the road sometimes. We like to visit these craft distilleries around America because bourbon is America's native spirit. It can only happen in America. You know, I got on the road this morning. I was visiting my little brother up in Oklahoma City. Some reason that GMC pickup headed south, the Dallas, Fort Worth, and I ended up at a little distillery called Blackland Distillery right in Fort Worth, just a couple of miles from the stockyards. I rolled up here. I could smell some barbecue rolling too. So this is going to be a pretty special episode, I think, because we're going to eat a little barbecue and pair it with some whiskey. But we do got some guests on today. We got Marcus Caprios on with us, the founder, the owner, the man, the myth, the legend of the Fort Worth area. He's putting the whiskey to the stockyards is what I hear. And then we also got Derek Walker, Texas Ranger. I know. No relation. From Smokaholics, they are a famous barbecue joint in here. So what I like is that Derek is a big guy like me. It meant that the barbecue is probably going to taste pretty damn good. He's got Boss Man on his shirt. I know it's going to be good and stuff. I was going to call you a little big chief. You're a little over the meat a little bit. Just a little. Does that make you feel better when a bigger man walks in the room? No. No?

I like to be the big guy.

It's always good to be a big guy, right? Yeah. Me and my little brother walked into a bar the other day. Everybody stopped and turned and looked at us and they were sizing me up. I knew that's what's going on in people's minds when you're like a foot taller than everybody else. They're like, okay, hope this guy acts right. So let's get straight to the whiskey Marcus. When did you start this distillery?

Sure. We built the distillery in 2018. We opened the tasting room in March of 2019. We started distribution in September of 2019. So really we've only had about two full years of distribution.

two full years, and what states are you distributed in right now?

So we're all over Texas, just launching in Oklahoma, and we're launching in nine other states this first and second quarter of this year.

So a lot of states probably have some plans to expand and stuff, but we have a plethora of glasses and whiskey in front of us, right? So we always say we like to get straight to the whiskey. So what's the first whiskey we're going to taste of yours?

The first one is our bourbon. It's a blend. So we started distilling in 2018. And what we do is we source four and a half year old bourbon and rye from Minnesota. And then we blend that with our young distillate from 2018 and 2019. The goal is to eventually just have your own straight bourbon and rye, right? And our bourbon is going to be released hopefully in November or December of this year, our first straight stuff. But the first is our 83 proof bourbon. It's our number two seller. A couple of things about this bourbon. We made this blend to appeal to a pretty broad audience. I think this is a very easy to drink sipping bourbon. Again, it's 83 proof. So this is not an aggressive, in your face bourbon, which some people like and some people don't like. It's very soft, which is everything we do here and how we distill the spirits. But this is, I almost call it a great entry bourbon, especially for a lot of people who are not big bourbon drinkers in the first place.

I like that nose on it. It's still got a little bit of corn to it, but I can tell you blended a little bit. I was talking earlier about Tasty Notes, that honeycomb cereal when you smell this. Some floor notes, maybe some of that. I get a lot of honey on this for some reason. I'm getting that maybe a little honeysuckle when you're walking down a road, country road. I can get the oak in it. Everybody's going to say that, right? It's got oak and some vanilla notes and stuff. But let's taste this thing. I say cheers, everybody.

Cheers.

You don't get the honeycomb cereal there, Marcus.

Oh, no, I agree. Yeah.

I like that little bit of bite to it, a little bit, a little bit of spice, not, uh, no, no Kentucky hug there. Is this a sweet mash or sour mash?

Uh, it's a sour mash, but let me just say to like, I agree. There's not a lot of burn on the end and. or really in the chest. And again, that's how we're making it. Also, we're very focused on water here. And, you know, sometimes we talk not to geek out on, but this is the point of the podcast, right? When you have an 83, think about it this way. When you have an 83 proof bourbon, that means 41 and a half percent is alcohol. So you're left with 68 and a half percent, if my math is right, of water. Water is incredibly important in terms of both the flavor and the finish. So we spend a lot of time on that, just like Kentucky. They of course have the limestone. We don't, we have to do other things. But I really think that contributes, that's my long answer, that really contributes to why you're not feeling a lot of that in your chest there.

Now where do you guys get your yeast at?

We don't have some sort of proprietary yeast or where we're making it. We use different yeasts for our bourbon and our rye. And you know, we also make a vodka and a gin here. So they're all different, they're all engineered, but it's nothing, I don't want to say it's not special because I think the yeast is incredibly important to the flavor of the alcohol, but we source it.

Is it from Farm Solutions?

No.

No, okay.

Why is that the dominant yeast?

They are a dominant East maker in America, in America for a beer, wine, whiskey, you name it. They're it. Yeah. This is a beautiful little whiskey. I think you're right. Um, it's not overpowering to wear a new whiskey drinker would be like, wow. I think a Scotch drinker. or Irish whiskey drinker, or rye whiskey drinker. Maybe even somebody that's drinking a really good wine could get into this right here. It's not off putting a little sweetness on it. I get that.

Yeah, I get the sweetness too. So yeah, like I told you, I'm kind of a noob when it comes to this. And, uh, I've been drinking more scotch than bourbon and wine as well. And this is, this is super smooth. And I love the sweetness and that it doesn't have a lot of bite. Like this is. in my eyes, superb. I mean, I'm, I know I'm a noob, but it's, it's superb to me.

So Marcus, what, how, what was the idea? How'd you get the idea? Say, you know what? Not everybody just walks down the street. So you know what I'm gonna do today? I'm gonna start myself a whiskey distillery.

Right.

Except for guys like me.

That's, you know, uh, no, uh, my 32nd story is that. I was a lawyer in Fort Worth, but I've always had a passion for food and wine. So at night I went to culinary school. And then after I graduated, I got into wine and part of the sommelier exam is distilled spirits. So then I went to five schools around the country to learn how to make alcohol. And I saw it was very much like cooking. And so, and that's the approach that we have here. You're cooking grain, you're fermenting it, you're imparting flavor on it, you're filtering it. And so I put a business plan together and I left my firm and built this in 2018 and here we are. It's just really a culmination of a passion for food and wine.

So you went to school at like the greatest law school in America, right?

I went to school at the most beautiful campus in America, Pepperdine, yes.

Pepperdine, but you didn't go to University of Texas law school.

No, I went to undergrad at UT. Okay. Yeah, sorry. That's what I was hinting at. Oh yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, it was a, yes, I'm a Longhorn. You know, I've probably just alienated half my, half the audience here, but yes.

Nah, they know big chiefs of Texas Longhorns fans. So I kind of geeked out on it.

Mark, where'd you go to culinary school? I went here at the culinary school, Fort Worth.

So you're, you went to culinary school too? Yeah. So you're just a jack of all trades.

Uh, yeah. I mean, uh, one, one was for profession and one was for passion, right? There's the, that's the difference.

Yeah. So you start the distillery. Was there some growing pains in starting it in Texas?

Well, sure. Uh, you know, I always say there's a brewery on every corner because it's much easier to, in my opinion, to brew beer in that you can start it up, you can build it, you can turn key it, and you can have product out immediately. The barriers to entry for a distillery are much more difficult. And I would say a lot of the laws are antiquated dating back to prohibition. So there was a lot of red tape and then there was a lot of learning as you go, right? Because we've set up basically a manufacturing plant back here and you have to get the right equipment. and you have to get the right engineering and you have to put it all together correctly. And that's not even to say, um, then making the alcohol and then distributing the alcohol, um, and then marketing and selling the alcohol. So, you know, here we are in 2022 and I would say right now it's taken us about this long to really get going down the track.

Well, I'd say you got a great startup. We took a quick tour through your facility. I saw your stills, which tell me about your stills real fast. You got a different still than I've ever seen before.

Yeah. We use what are actually called I stills from the Netherlands. They're state of the art stills, very happy with the alcohol they're producing. They're fully automated. And without getting too much into the science, because the process is the same, but essentially we've programmed in all of our cuts beforehand. And so now it really is more of oversight and automation. But what I think is really consistency and produces very clean alcohol.

Wow. Let's go back to your, the name of Blackland. I know what the meaning of it is, but why don't you tell our listeners what's, what's Blackland mean?

So there are seven eco regions in Texas, and we live in the Blackland Prairie, one of those. It runs north of Fort Worth down to San Antonio. It got its name because hundreds of years ago, there were frequent fires that caused the soil to be black and charred. And I like that geographical idea and connotation because we are aging whiskey and charred barrels. And so, again, I like the connection to where we are. And I like the connection to the aging of of whiskey.

And that's like some of the most fertile farmland in Texas, right? Is this region all the way down to San Antonio? A lot of, a lot of wheat, a lot of rye grown.

Absolutely. And there's a lot of black land businesses all around as well, right? Yeah.

Did you know that? I did not know that. I got a history lesson just then.

If that's fair, I grew up here. I didn't know that. I like it. Well, let's, let's, let's sip on another whiskey. What's the next whiskey you got for us?

I think it would just make sense because we just had the bourbon. We also make a 100 proof bourbon, which is the same bourbon, but we've upped the proof a little bit, okay? This is very popular in what I like, like steak houses, nicer cocktail bars, because what they do is essentially, it's great for cocktails for the dilution. You want that higher proof. Now there are also just avid whiskey drinkers who like a higher proof. And so for that, we made the 100 proof. Again, it's really the same spirit. And I think it's good that you just drank it with just more alcohol.

Now on this one, the more sweetness there, more caramel flavoring, it smells like, not to say it has caramel flavoring, I'm just saying that caramel smell to it. Derek, you ever seen anybody make caramel before? I've made it quite a few times myself. Do you get that smell off there when you're making it? I know, I got that weird nose I got.

It's good. I mean, everything you said about the last one, I tasted and I smelled myself. So already, yeah, I'm loving your descriptions.

I'm getting some deep floral on this one, not that honeysuckle, more of, you know, I wouldn't say daisies, like in a yard or something, a dandelion. If you ever smelled the dandelion, you spent the time to pick one up and sniff on it a little bit. I do weird stuff like that. Maybe even a little bit of a watermelon or cantaloupe. Cantaloupes are big in Texas. Get a little bit of that nuts.

That is nuts. Well, again, I just it's obviously the higher proof alcohol that's bringing out the different notes.

Yeah, that sugary sweetness is there stuff. I'll say cheers, gentlemen. Oh, and that cantaloupe is right there with just a little bit of spice. What's that? There is a Spanish. It's like a red spice that you could put on like saffron, not saffron saffron. It's got a little saltiness to it. You put it on like watermelon or tagine. Yeah. Just a little bit of that spice on here. I love it. Just those cooking notes. Maybe some of the nutmeg and stuff isn't there, but Now being a hunter proof, this one's a little bit more viscous. Yep. coating your mouth and stuff. Both of them have that medium finish to it. I like that, I like it. Still, no Kentucky hugging on this one. It's not, there's not a buffalo running down my chest trying to kick me or anything. It's just, it's there, but it's letting you know, hey, I'm a whiskey, I'm a hunter proof. I could see how this is a little bit nicer in a cocktail. So Marcus, how hard was it to get Fort Worth to get on board with what you're doing?

Oh, I think Fort Worth's been great, especially the public. Right. And then I just think Texas in general, because we spend a lot of time in Austin and San Antonio and Houston, and everyone appreciates if you're going to make something the right way, which is what we're trying to do. And we have a, you know, saying around here, we're trying to elevate craft a little bit and really focus on from the ingredients to the bottling, to the tasting room, to everything we're doing, right. The process. And if you do it the right way, Texas supports Texas. And that really has been great for us.

Yeah, setting up this trip, you know, I was working on five different distilleries and I got to say across the board, everybody I talked to, I said, here's what I'm trying to do. This is what I'm trying to go see. Do you have somebody else in mind? And people were so nice about it, about others. Hey, you should go see this person or see that person. Hey, I got a number for you. Talked about bringing in barbecue joints and stuff. And everybody was just on board and they're like, man, that's a great idea. I mean, I do have an idea for you. Hopefully Hannah's paying attention to what I'm about to say. I'm full of great ideas. I would like to see one of these cast strength and call it Blacklands Stockyard.

Blackland Stockyard.

Yeah. And that would be your cast strength. Cause you're right here by the stock yard. Yes.

And I mean, and all of the stock yard restaurants carry us. Um, they're big supporters of us.

And how could it not be cast strength? You got the rodeo right there. You got, you got the Texas long horns, right?

Yes.

Tell me that. Is it a bad idea? You say it's a bad idea. No. I mean, that's just me.

We've talked about doing a Stockyard special bottle and maybe that's the way to go.

I think it is. We're the Texas Longhorn on the little front of it or something.

And then we lost everybody.

It's not about the college, it's more about the animal itself.

Yes, and Fort Worth, that is the symbol here, is the longhorn.

Yeah, the iconic animal of Texas right there. If somebody said what's the animal of Texas, I would say the longhorn.

And Fort Worth as well. Especially Fort Worth. Yeah.

Well, I think cattle drives, you know, the new show out there, 1883. I'm sure people are loving it and stuff, but I think that just ties in. They're leaving Fort Worth. They've got some Longhorns and stuff that would fit perfectly in there and stuff. Well, what's your next whiskey you got for us?

OK, so the next is the Rye. This is my favorite of all the whiskeys that we make. You know, the rye grain tends to be spicier. I would call this a soft rye. Again, it's 83 proof. I sell a lot of this at cocktail bars. This is such a great spirit for old fashions. It's got a little bit more going on for me than the bourbon. And you know, bourbon is certainly more popular generally than rye. I'm on a huge ride kick right now. I just think it's a, this is a great drink to put over ice or a great spirit to put over ice. This is what I sip on. It's got a lot going on, but again, very soft for a ride. We sell a lot of this actually in Texas because other than balconies, there's not a ton of Texas right out there.

Sure.

So it's a much easier same with our gin, by the way, even in Texas. So when you're selling a Texas spirit and there's less competition and it's good, you can get it into a lot of places.

What's your match bill on this right here?

So the blend, what we source is 100% rye, okay? And then our blend, which I'm transparent about everything that we do, for the rye is 80% rye and then 20% of a grain called triticale, which is grown here. And by the way, not to go on a tangent, but I love the triticale so much. which is a cross-pollinate of rye and wheat, that we cook and ferment and distill a barrel every week. And we will release that probably in 2023, 2024, and just call it Blackland whiskey. But it's going to be 100% Triticale.

I actually just read an article about Triticale that it could actually do away with rye and wheat in America in the next 50 years because it's so much more of a hearty grain. It's so much easier to work with than wheat or rye.

It's certainly for us much easier to work with on the distilling side than rye. Because rye is the most difficult for us.

Sticky, nasty.

Absolutely. But aside from that, I just love the flavor of triticale. And I like that not a lot of people are using it. And it's a differentiator. But if it wasn't good, I wouldn't do it.

You're I think you're the only second people we've had on dry fodder stilling out in Spokane, Washington. They have a bottle. Yep.

My wife's from Spokane. So that's I tasted it one time and I said, well, this is very interesting. Sure.

This I was going to say this was a higher rise, not that Kentucky ride mash bill. I thought it was a 95 5. So once you put that together, 100 percent ride at 80 20, the notes on this are more sweet. You know, that just has that Maryland, right? That Pennsylvania, right? That's really truthfully was America's first spirit because German immigrants came over and they started making a lot of people think Scotch Irish, right? But really it was the Germans that brought that over, which is the dominant green in Europe at the time. And still today is right. So it's just a neat thing to figure that out that they came over here up in, I think, Boston and somewhere in the 1600s. I actually wrote that in an article that they made the first rye whiskey in America. Well, at least from what we know, I don't think anybody was making anything in Jamestown at the time, probably because of the religious practices there. But, you know, those rebels up there in Boston with their tea and stuff, they got to have some whiskey. Derek, you had a question about this.

Yeah. So for any no vice that may be listening, what's the difference between a bourbon whiskey and a rye whiskey?

So a few things. Bourbon has a lot of rules and regulations. I'm sure most of the audience knows this, but it has to be made in America. It has to be at least 51% corn. uh in your grain mash has to be aged in a new oak american barrel can't be used has to be oak uh and similarly rye has to be at least 51 percent rye in the grain mash that you use and that's as i was saying earlier the rye as a grain and and as a chef you know just tends to have a spicier finish on it. All right. I find the ride to be the most polarizing of all the spirits we make in that, um, it tends to be a spirit that men gravitate to a little bit more than women. Uh, but it's also such a great cocktail drink because of. The finish and the flavor, it's really gotten really popular in the last 10 years as well. And that's only continuing.

This has that little bit of not drying on the back end of this. I was going to say bitter, but it's not bitter. It's like a dry red wine when you taste it. It's got that sweetness on the front of your palate. By the time it gets to the back of the palate, it's dried out a little bit. Probably, I was kind of surprised that this has a very, very, right there, just a medium finish on it. Not very viscous, that drying effect. I think a lot of wine drinkers would gravitate to this right here because of that. Red wine drink is great with a steak right here, right? Right. Or before a steak. Probably perfect with a cigar, Derek.

Definitely.

Yeah. I'm glad you asked that. A lot of people don't know that about bourbons and whiskeys. And some people think a bourbon is not a whiskey and a rye is something else. But you said you drink Crown Royal and that's a rye whiskey. Or you used to drink Crown Royal. Now you graduated to the big boy club. I don't know if you know this, Almost all Scotch is aged in bourbon barrels. Same thing about Irish whiskey. That's a large market for that. Almost, I think, 90% of all the barrels from Kentucky go to Scotland and Ireland. So it's just dirty bourbon you've been drinking.

Dirty bourbon.

They can say it's Scottish, but it's got some American in it. Okay. Yeah. I know our Scott's listeners out there are going to be like, God dang it, Big Chief, why are you picking on us? But man, it's some great whiskeys so far. I love it. I love this stuff.

Really appreciate it.

So you got one more for the first half we're going to sip on. What's that? What's that next one?

Well, this is probably the most controversial of the spirits that we make. But ironically, it's also our number one seller. Surprise, surprise, surprise, surprise. This is the Texas pecan brown sugar bourbon. And before your audience revolts and throws things at the screen or whatever they're listening to this on, um, a couple of things. Like I know the purists say, you know, you shouldn't have sugar and bourbon and you can't call it bourbon. Um, there is a large group of the world that likes what I call sugar whiskey period. Uh, and fireball is one of the top selling whiskies in the world.

There's no doubt there is no doubt during some of the night. Exactly.

So if the world wants sugar whiskey, then like everything we're doing, I wanted to elevate that a little bit and create what I consider a good sugar whiskey without some sort of cinnamon flavor. Uh, and so thus the Texas pecan brown sugar bourbon was formed, uh, I think it is a little sweet for me, for my particular palate as a whiskey drinker. But my palate is irrelevant because this is what people drink. And I will say it is very good. I made a very good, we made here a very good sugar whiskey. We're very happy with it, as is the world, apparently. And, you know, I'm going to let you taste it and we can discuss it from here.

I'm very familiar with this one.

Yeah, we're going to find out how familiar you are on the second half for sure. Marcus, walk me through the process of making this.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting. It's probably my favorite day in the distillery when we actually make this, because it smells like a bakery in the back. We take the bourbon, and then we steep it in pecans, and then we add some vanilla, and then an ungodly amount of muscovado sugar. And muscovado sugar is the sugar that's just off the sugar cane. We tried about 20 different sugars. But much like food, ingredients are the most important thing when you're making something, right? And so we found the right sugar. And that's just, you know, dessert in a glass is what some people call it.

The nose on this is just spectacular. It'd be like walking into a sugar cane field, you know, that brown sugar that it's almost undescribable. It's just so good if you if you walked into somebody that was making candies and stuff. Yes. And you walk into a place like that, a fudge shop or anything like that, and you just smell all that. Right. What's the place down in New Orleans that makes the fried doughnuts?

Café du Monde.

Café du Monde. And there's so much of that powdered sugar going on there. It's almost like you walk into a cloud of it, right? But the smell in that place, not that New Orleans is a stinky place, but it drives that bourbon street smell away and you just get this big sugar effect. Um, I kind of love that. And that's what's inside this glass right here, that brown sugar.

Um, man, every time I sip this, I get so many recipe ideas.

It goes well with food, right? Um, people really put a lot of this in their coffee or so they tell me.

in the morning.

I could, I could definitely, if you just drink black coffee, you want some sugar in it. This would be perfect for it right here. This is maybe just a little bit of cream, but perfect. Well, cheers.

I just thought about a pecan pie. Right. Yeah, pecan pie recipe with this would be great.

Man, I got so many things to say about this. Perfect after dinner dessert whiskey, like you said. I would put this in the same category. And you're going to love this. If you've ever drank ice wine out of like Germany, North America has some ice wines out there, depending on the wineries and stuff. where they let the grape freeze, it concentrates the sugars and it makes a super, super powerful sweet wine.

I've never had ice wine.

Yeah. Sounds like I've been missing out. It's more of a dessert wine. It's very special. They came in very small bottles and stuff because it's very limited. You got to get the grapes at the right time. I put that with that Marcus. That's, that's my praise for me right there. I like it. I think it has its time, its place. I don't care what all the naysayers say. There's so many things out there like it that not brown sugar, but sweet whiskeys. Like you said, like fireball.

Honey whiskey is a popular one.

Honey whiskeys. Hey, listen, Jimmy Russell. made a little bit of money for Wild Turkey with his American honey, right? He did. There's no doubt about it. And he did that thing in 1981 or 82. I could be wrong about that. But if you went back today and they said you can't do it, what would you, what would they say? You know, I heard somebody the other night. It's like, I want to get a pour of bourbon. And we were in a bar and And she was like, what do you want? And she was like, I want that American honey.

And I just like, ah, OK. All right, whatever.

I'm going to get back to drinking beer. But time and place is everything. I think it has its time and place. You said it right at dessert whiskey. You're not trying to say, hey, drink this beforehand. You said, let's drink for dessert. Let's have it in our coffee. Let's enjoy it the way it needs to be enjoyed. Bourbon has its place. Rye whiskey has its place, and this definitely has its place. And hey, at the end of the day, you don't care how people drink it, right?

I don't.

You pour it over honeycomb cereal, it'll be just fine.

As long as they're buying it and drinking it and enjoying it, that's the most important thing. I will say we've seen a lot of people like bars and restaurants pick this up and they really like it. And I think the two best ways I've seen it made, and we do it here in the tasting room too, we do what's called a salted pecan old fashioned. So we take an ounce of the pecan and we take an ounce of the rye and we do some walnut bitters and a little bit of salt. And I'll pour that for you here as a cocktail. But I think that's the way to go because you're not putting you don't need any simple syrup because the sweetness of the pecan is already there, right? Yep That's a popular cocktail in the world. And then we also do our people are doing a version of an espresso martini So instead of vodka they use the Texas pecan brown sugar bourbon and coffee and that sells really well and certainly a lot of women like that as well

Yeah, well, on the second half, we're going to talk about the future of Blackland. We're going to eat some of Derek's. What I hear is some amazing barbecue. We'll drink some cocktails. Derek's going to give me a schooling on barbecue, tell me how to make my own barbecue, I think. And we'll be right back. Listeners, you know what's great in a cocktail where hot some waffles is maple syrup aged in bourbon barrels for six to nine months seldom seen farms takes bourbon barrels He's got 2,500 trees where he takes the sap out of it boils it down and makes some beautiful syrup, puts it in those bourbon barrels. Just so delicious. You can check them out at seldomseenmaple.com. He's got it by the cases. You can get it at an eight ounce bottle. You can get a case of 12. He's also got some other things that you might want to check out. A bourbon maple candle that will just make your house smell delicious. It'll smell like an elf on a shelf just hit your place. I'm telling you So check them out. Like I said seldom seen maple comm We'd appreciate it All right, listeners, we are back. We are at Blackland Astillery in Fort Worth, Texas. I got Marcus, the man, the myth, the legend that created this amazing place and this amazing whiskey. But the second half, we're going to focus on a whole big old plate of chicken wings. You sure those aren't ostrich legs? They're humongous chicken legs, man. They are, man. But Derek, you cook something for us. What you got for us? Or smoked, I should say.

So I have some pecan smoked chicken wings that I've glazed with. It's kind of like an Asian-inspired glaze, but it's using Blacklands, Texas pecan brown sugar bourbon is the star of the show. So it's got a little soy, a little garlic, a little five spice and pretty much, you know, salt and pepper and a little butter. And we use that to make a glaze for these wings, man. And we did this first at the Fort Worth Food and Wine Festival. And they just took off, man. They were a huge hit. Everybody out there loved them. And they've actually been asking for this sauce. And it was just something that I created on the spur. But I think it's something we're going to have to actually mass produce before it's all said and done. And I'll let you guys taste them and be the judge and let us know if it's something that we should do or not.

Now, what we're pairing this with right now, Marcus, you made us a cocktail and you actually went back there and made it. Nobody else. You're back there working. What would you make for us?

That's true. Don't tell my staff, though, because they don't like me to go behind the bar and everything that goes wrong. It's my fault here. We have one of the cocktails on our menu. It's the salted pecan old fashioned. So we do an ounce of rye, an ounce of the Texas pecan brown sugar bourbon, some walnut bitters and then just a pinch of salt to finish it off.

That sounds like the perfect thing to pair with. Let's grab some of these chicken wings and we'll see. Let's see if this is the fat man's dream or not. All right. Good Lord. I think my tongue just done drilled a hole to the top of my mouth, trying to slap my brain to death. Man, this is almost Slappy Mama so good right here. Derrick, man, the chicken on this is just super tender. Cooked perfect. I don't like when a chicken wing is undercooked. I always get scared, you know, it's too chewy. You start wondering. And because it's smoked, it'll have that red tint to it. You're like, okay. But this right here is pulled away from the bone. Goodness. The sauce that you made with that brown sugar bourbon, delicious. I mean, perfect. And it paired perfectly. The saltiness in this cocktail pairs perfect with the sweetness of those wings. Just a little bit of spice there. What's the spice in there?

It's got some crushed red pepper and then it's got some sweet Asian chili paste. for the spice.

Marcus over there. Look at his plate. Good Lord. He's the skinniest one here, I think. The man's hungry. He's starving to death over there. There's nothing but bone left, Marcus.

That's amazing. How did you cook the chicken? Can I ask you?

I just smoked it over pecan wood for about two and a half hours.

Now that's my favorite wood to smoke with is pecan. Now what's the difference with smoking with pecan for our listeners and smoking with let's say mesquite that most people think that Texans smoke with?

So pecan is more sweet. Pecan is, I mean they're all hardwood so mostly in Texas people use oak. Red oak, white oak. Post oak. Post oak. Some people use live oak. But pecan is also a native Texas wood, and that's what I've always grew up using. That's what my granddad used, so that's what I use. It's a little sweeter. It doesn't burn as hot as oak or mesquite. Mesquite is kind of overpowering if you don't know how to use it. It has a huge, huge smoky taste, and it's prevalent in whatever you cook with it if you don't know how to use it. But I have used from time to time a little mixture of pecan and mesquite. But I always just end up back with pecan, so.

You're preaching, Ram. You're preaching it up right here. I say amen to all that right there. A lot of things people don't know about pecan wood is it doesn't give you that overly smoky taste, right? What I don't want in barbecue is I don't want to be driving the next day and have a burp come up and I taste, it's like an ashtray or something.

Nobody wants that, right? Exactly. So that comes from either your fires choking up or what we call a dirty fire. Usually you got a lot of ash built up or your pit doesn't breathe right. So you get that thick white smoke coming out of there. What you want is that thin blue, what we call sweet blue smoke to where it's so faint that you can't even hardly see the smoke coming out of there. And that's a clean burn. If you do that, you're pretty much good with any wood that you use. You got to know how to manage your fire.

Well, me and my brother, we grew up in the hill country of Texas, right? Two and a half hours away from here. And we grew up on a big stick burner. And we had a big pecan bottom. So naturally, what you'd use is pecan wood. And we'd always have that taste. And then you'd go somewhere else. Our stepdad, we learned how to cook brisket from him and kielbasa, right? Big thing around central Texas. and that's what we learned about that wood and you go somewhere else and you barbecue and he'd be like, that tastes kind of weird. And he would always say, hey, you can't rush barbecue. It takes time. It takes time. Love and time.

It's done when it's done. That's what I always say. People ask, how long? It's done when it's done.

Yeah. Well, I'm, this is done right here. This is perfect. Marcus, I don't, Marcus not leaving us any chicken for ourselves over there. Marcus on tore it up.

Look, and I was trying to eat mine back the way from the microphone because I didn't know if you guys were into ASMR at all, but that's exactly what you're going to do if I'm a little closer to this mic. Well, hey.

I love both of these. I think it's a great pairing. Some chicken with this right here. It's not too fulfilling. Where are you guys located here in Fort Worth?

So we're located at 1417 Evans Avenue, which is right off of 35 near the medical district. We're pretty much centrally located. We're only about a few miles from the stockyards ourselves. So everything we're easy to get to from anywhere is what I like to say in the Metroplex. So we were talking earlier about my latest top 50 nomination through the Texas Monthly Magazine. That's kind of brought some crowds out. Well, we had crowds anyway, but that's kind of brought some more crowds. So we're open Wednesday through Saturday from 11 to 7. it's probably good to get there early on any of those days.

So what happens when you run out of barbecue? Closed. Amen to that, man. I love it. We're done, we're done. You probably assign if a barbecue joint is open at like nine o'clock at night, not a good sign, right?

No, we never make it to seven. We're normally closed by five o'clock, five, five thirty.

Yeah, that's what I love. I love that, man. Marcus, is that some place you go quite often? I know you like it, so.

Uh, yeah, I've been, but the problem when you win an award like that, where you're at Texas monthly and they say, here are the top 50 barbecue restaurants in the entire state of Texas is that then everyone finds out about it.

And everyone goes, which they should.

But, you know, I like great food and it's an amazing spot.

Well, the good thing for you is you know, a man that knows a man. That's right. That's always a good thing to know. Right.

It's pretty awesome that it's coming to my tasting room today. I'm pretty excited about it.

So in your tasting room, you guys don't serve food here. So can people bring in their own barbecue and stuff?

We serve a little bit of food like light grazing, what I call charcuterie boards, olives, hummus, nuts, but we absolutely allow anyone to bring food in because this is all about the cocktail here. And so yeah, we have a lot of parties and events and this stuff is great. And then at the end of the day, the focus is the spirit and the cocktail and this is marketing for the brand. So yeah, it's not a full kitchen.

Well, that's, I think that's beautiful barbecue bourbon. I mean, what, what'd you think about pairing some, some bourbons with your food?

I love it. When I, um, actually the first time I tasted this bourbon, I knew I had many, many recipe ideas and I've only played with, uh, two glazes out of it so far, but I've got some dessert ideas and some other stuff that I'm going to play with as well. So yeah, I mean, Alcohol and culinary go hand in hand. From everything that we've tasted today, I've got lots of ideas. Awesome.

I think you could pour a little bit of this in some banana pudding.

Banana pudding, sweet potato pie, even earlier, the pecan pie. I'm definitely going to do it in a pecan pie.

You hear my little brother over here is like, banana pudding. He's like, mmm.

And my wife also has an award-winning banana pudding. It's also been featured in Texas monthly.

So maybe I think that would just give it a different, uh, little, little kick. I think a little bit of whiskey in there. I've never had any banana pudding with whiskey in it, but I think those flavor profiles definitely work.

Right. And I think too, like the pecan is really good for food. That's where I really use it. And we've seen it like also in bread pudding. It's very popular. It's really good with ice cream, uh, even all the way to brownies. Like. There's, it's so much versatility. But I also think that's why the pecan is so popular as a whiskey just in the, and not just here in another state, but because it's so versatile and so different because there's so much bourbon and there's so much rye and there's so much vodka and there's so much gin. There's not a lot of Texas pecan brown sugar bourbon. People always want, what's the next thing? What can I try that's new? And it's really good. And so that's really why that spirit works so well.

Well, did Marcus and Derek, did you guys know that the mother tree for all pecan trees is in Texas is actually down in San Saba, Texas? No, that's the pecan capital of the world.

San Saba.

Don't let none of them Georgia people tell you it's a pecan. All right. No, it's a pecan straight out of straight out of Texas down in San Saba.

Hmm.

Yeah. Awesome. The many things you learn when you're researching whiskey and talking about whiskey.

You know, that's the thing that I love about, you know, whiskeys and bourbons and sitting around with guys who like whiskey and bourbon and the same thing with cigars. When you sit in the cigar lounge, I learned so much from just hanging in the cigar lounge or hanging at a bar with some guys and having a sip. You learn more there than I did in school.

Probably a couple of lies now. No, you're right. I think it is the great melting pot of America. It doesn't matter whether you black, brown, red, green, yellow, whatever color you are, wherever you come from, city, country. When it comes to whiskey, it kind of brings us all together, right? And messes us together and it's something we have in common. It's kind of that mesh melting ground of American society, I think. And it's super beautiful that we can come together, sit down. We got four gentlemen here. That's a stretch for me and my brother. But four gentlemen, probably from four different backgrounds or at least three different backgrounds, because me and him come from that same background, right? But that's the beautiful thing about this right here, is it brought us together. I don't know if I didn't do a podcast that I would have ever had this opportunity to come in here, open the doors to us, and Marcus was generous enough to put out some whiskey, and you were generous enough to bring over some barbecue. Like I said, a fat man's dream.

It's been an awesome pairing because we, uh, we pair food a lot and we do dinners and we do, but this is, this has been pretty enjoyable today.

Well, gentlemen, I really, really appreciate it. Marcus, what, you got anything that's coming down the pike for Blackland?

Well, we've got our third year anniversary coming up in March. And then, uh, we've got different launches in different States throughout the year from, uh, Louisiana and Arkansas and Alabama and Mississippi and, um, Kansas, Missouri, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico. But the thing I'm most excited about, oh, no, by the way, we just released our 50 milliliter line, which is very popular right now. But the thing I'm most excited about is our straight bourbon is going to come out at the end of the year. And that's what we've been working on since the beginning. And I'm really excited to release that.

One of the things I forgot to ask you. So what's the price points of each of these whiskies?

I think it's incredibly competitive because everything I do is to try and get people to drink it and try it. And so that they won't give me the answer of, well, I like everything, but it's too expensive and I'm not going to bring it in, especially at the bar and restaurant level. So retail, you're looking at about all the whiskeys are the same, believe it or not. And you're looking at about $30. That's it.

Yeah. $30. Yeah. That's super. And how much is the Texas pecan? Same. $30. That's it. Man, that's amazing right there. I really can't believe that. So you're letting the big guys come in and buy some for $30, but they don't care about their money. But the guy that works every day, that struggles, that's feeding his family. He can still afford to enjoy some whiskey every once in a while. That's a great price point, $30. I got to commend you on that right there. That's what it's supposed to be about. I love your bottle too. Thank you. Point that out to our listeners. It is a custom bottle. You didn't go with a stock bottle.

Uh, no, we didn't. And we always say here, the bottle is the brand. Uh, you have to stand out in a crowded alcohol market. And so many people come in the distillery and they say, you know, I bought this because I liked the bottle and then I liked what was inside.

somewhat of a simplified label on there. You know who it is, but there's not millions of stickers or anything on there. I like that. I would expect to see one with a longhorn on there in that old stock yard.

Well, we'll get there.

I love it. So how much does tours, if someone wanted to come and take a tour, do you guys do those?

We do. We do a tour on Wednesday, Thursday. And the Saturday tours are always sold out. And it's a pretty cool experience because we're a cocktail and you come in at $30. You get a cocktail, then we go out and drink on the production floor and we see how everything's made. We go to the barrel room and then we come back in and we have a tasting flight of everything we make. So it's pretty fun afternoon and definitely a little bit different just because of the type of distillery that we are.

Awesome, awesome. Well, I'll give each of you opportunity. Where can we find you on social media, Derek?

So we are on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, all on the Smokaholics barbecue. Awesome.

I love it.

Same for us. We're on Instagram and Facebook, as well as TikTok. And that's all under Blackland Distillery FW. And we have our website, blacklandfw.com.

Listen, I will tell you, if you reach out to Blackland, they will get back with you. That's how I reached out to them was Instagram. They got a great marketing team. Hannah with them. She reached right back out to me. She was very awesome. So I got to say thank you to Hannah. That was a. Great thing for me, it makes our life easier for the podcast. I really enjoy that when everything works smoothly. Derek, man, once again, thanks for bringing these wings in. Any man that shares his food with this fat guy right here, I enjoy it. And Marcus, once again, man, sharing your whiskey with me. It almost makes me cry that I get to taste whiskeys like this. You open your doors to me and my brother. It's a humbling experience when somebody else brings you into their house and treats you great like a guest. So I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me. Thank you. Really enjoyed having you and appreciate the exposure out into your audience.

All right. So listeners, you know where you could find us at. You could find us on TikTok. No, we do not do no dancing. I got bad knees, so I'll probably fall down if I do that. But you can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, all those places. Our main place is Facebook. We have a Facebook group called the Bourbon Roadies, 2,500 strong. It's a private Facebook group, so you've got to answer three questions to get in. Are you 21? Do you like bourbon? Hell yes, everybody likes bourbon, right? And then, do you agree to play nice because we don't tolerate any rudeness? You know, if you want to drink from the very bottom of the shelf, and I started out like that with this stuff called 10 High Whiskey, all the way to the top where there might be pappy up there if you can afford it or find it, we want you to be able to drink that. We want you to come in our Facebook group and celebrate. birthdays, holidays, retirements, whatever you do in your military service. You just had a new child. Even if you want to celebrate somebody's life that just passed away and raise a glass to that family member or friend, we want you to do that without anybody trolling on you. So come on in and join us. We'd appreciate it. All that social media stuff. You know what we like to do? We like to give a whiskey away. Marcus has agreed to give away a bottle of whiskey, some other swag with that. But what you got to do is at noon. Not only do you got to follow the Bourbon Road on Instagram, but you got to follow Blacklands. You got to follow Smokaholics. And then on our post that day at noon on Instagram, you got to tell me where Marcus went to law school. That's what you got to post. So let us know that. We'll hook you up with Marcus and his team and they'll get you that bottle of whiskey and some swag. So what we gotta do to keep you listening to us is what we need you to do is going up to the top of your app, hit that check sign, that plus sign, that subscribe sign. That'll tell you that we got two shows that week. One is our whiskey review, which will be about 15 minutes. And then our long show like today with a guest. It's a 30 minutes of half and a 30 minute half. It'll get you to work and back usually. Do that subscribe. That way that app will tell you we're coming on. The next thing we need you to do is scroll on down. Hit that five star review. Leave some comments because you know what will happen if you don't. The big bad booty daddy of bourbon will come over to your house. dragging his wagon, the big bad booty daddy wagon loaded up with his Blackland whiskey. We'll drink all night. By the end of the night, you will leave us that five star review, I guarantee. But seriously, those five star reviews, those comments, that's what opens up the doors of distilleries like Blackland to us. Gets us great content, gets us great, great whiskey in our hands. It gets barbecue in my belly. So if you would do that, we'd appreciate it. Also, check out our sponsors, Cruise Customs Flags and Seldom Seen Farms. We'd appreciate that. If you want to check out our website, TheBurbanRoad.com, we have our reviews on there. We have some articles on there, just a couple. Give those a read. You can also leave us comments on there of what you'd like to see if you have an distillery in your hometown. You have a barbecue joint in your hometown. You want us to go check out? We'll do it. We will hunt that person down. We'll get them on here as guests. But probably the best way to reach out to us is either our email. He's Jim at the Bourbon Road. I'm Mike at the Bourbon Road. But probably the best way, as we always say, is on our Instagram. You can send us a DM. He's jsan63. I'm Big Bourbon Chief. And we'll see you on down the Bourbon Road.