31. Distilled With Discipline - Hotel Tango Distillery

So your title here would be not just owner and founder, but you'd be the sergeant major.

Yeah, a little bit of Sergeant Major. More morale NCO than anything. Morale, there you go.

Well, I guess that will be morale NCO. We talked about that last week about how much alcohol, or actually whiskey, has ties to the military throughout military history.

Oh, absolutely. I traded gallons of whiskey for Copenhagen and Iraq. It's worth more than gold.

Wow.

Thanks, Mom.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Log Heads Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Find out more about their fine rustic furniture at LogHeadsHomeCenter.com. Welcome back everyone. I hope you had a great weekend. Please join Mike and I as we raise a glass once again and thank our veterans for serving this great nation. Cheers. We have a great show for you today. Recently we traveled north to Indianapolis to visit Hotel Tango Distillery. And that's where Travis Barnes, founder of Hotel Tango, started America's first disabled combat veteran distillery in 2014. Travis and his wife Hillary have built a successful company by surrounding themselves with some great people. They like to say they create spirits that are distilled with discipline and are fit to serve. Now the name Hotel Tango comes from the H and the T in the phonetic alphabet. H stands for Hillary and T for Travis. And the military theme doesn't stop there. Their canteen shaped bottle is labeled to remind you of an MRE. And for those not up on military jargon, that's a meal ready to eat or a military food ration. One thing is for sure, we are drinking some whiskey today. So join us as we meet Travis and his team and taste their craft spirits. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Bourbon Road. I'm Jim Shannon. I'm Mike Hyatt. And we are here in Indianapolis, Indiana. And where are we, Mike? Hotel Tango Distillery. We've got Travis Barnes. Travis, welcome to the show. Thank you, gentlemen. It's good to have you.

We'd like to get straight to the whiskey. How's that? Outstanding, yeah.

So we're going to get to your first expression that you brought for us here, and we'll talk a little bit about it and drink it, and then we'll get into your backstory. Sound good? Great. Sounds wonderful. All right. So what do we got in our glass today?

So this is our Hotel Tango Reserve. It's our six-year bourbon. This was something that we sourced from Wyoming Whiskey a few years ago when it was turning about four years old. It's a weeded bourbon, about a 65-35 mashbill with corn and wheat. It's very, very soft in the beginning. It gets very sweet, I think. But you'll definitely see the wheat come through. All right.

Well, I'm looking forward to it. Let's go ahead and check it out. Cheers. Thanks, guys. Cheers. What's the proof on this?

This is 90 proof.

Okay. 90 proof. Yeah. The nose on it's a little, um, it's a little, it's a little light and a little delicate. I kind of like it. It's, um, absolutely. Yeah. Mike, you're a big fan of Wyoming whiskey, aren't you?

I actually am. I think it's the weed whiskey and stuff, or it could be this we're sitting here down beside a crackling wood fire. It makes it even better. I don't know.

Well, it's just not as spicy as you would, you know, from a rye.

You get a little floral on it, I think, on that taste. You can get it in the nose a little bit, but then the taste, it very comes across as that sweetness, that toasted marshmallow again, man.

On the back end, I think it really opens up and it's bright. I mean, it's floral, as you said.

But it's not bright at all in a green way. I mean, it's not brittle, as you might say, with a younger whiskey. This has got some age to it. This is a six-year, you said, right?

I get a little bit of white pepper on the back end of it. Maybe cloves. That baking spice. That's pretty good.

Yeah, so it's got a little bit of toffee to it, also. Not too much, but a little bit of toffee to it. You getting any cinnamon, Mike?

A little bit. Like I said, some of the baking spices and stuff. Man, this is a purse. For me, I like to sit down in front of my fireplace at my house on a big old fire and just sip the night away with my dog sitting next to me. Absolutely. It's a great supper.

Yeah. Yeah, one of the things that makes enjoying bourbon a good thing is an ice fire. And we're actually sitting on some comfortable log furniture here in a very rustic room. Tell us a little bit about this building we're in here.

The building was built at the turn of the 20th century. It was built as a carriage house for a funeral parlor that sat out front. And the funeral house burned down in the mid 20th century. And the carriage house has remained in use till about 30 years ago. And they boarded it up. And it was when we got it, there was no doors, no windows, no plumbing, no electric. and we turned it into our distillery. But originally it was broken into half. One side was for the stables where the horses would have been stabled and the other side was where the mechanics work on buggies and the hearse buggy.

Wow, that's interesting. So you were telling us about the turnstile or whatever it was that

Yeah, so they had an old turnstile where they would have turned the buggies around and they told us that the reason they had those was that horses don't like to go in reverse to back up with the buggy on it. So they would have unhitched it, turned the buggy around and then reattach the horses and pulled it back out the same way they came in.

It was a lot more difficult back in that day, wasn't it? You couldn't just put her in reverse. I guess you could, but it'd be tough to get her to back up.

Absolutely. Travis, your stiller is a little bit different. You know, hotel tango. People are thinking, oh, we're going to a hotel or something. But that's not the case here, right? Tell us a little bit about something about you and your background, and then tell us about the hotel tango.

Yeah, so we are the nation's first disabled veteran-owned combat distillery. I dropped out of college shortly after 9-11, joined the infantry and the Marine Corps. I got picked up by First Recon and did three tours with those guys, came back to Indiana, met my wife, who is a pilot. So one of the first things that we kind of had between us was the phonetic alphabet. Her name's Hillary and my name's Travis. So it was always hotel and tango. And I was doing this in the backyard and making it and giving kind of a moonshine or a little bit of aged bourbon away to friends and for birthday and Christmas. And folks said, this is really good. You should, you should do it legally. And that's when the law changed in Indiana and we went after it and were able to start producing in 2014 and that was four years, five years ago now.

So what got you to get the bug about distilling? Were you a beer brewer as well?

Yes, I was doing that as a hobby and I really wanted to see, one, I built my own still and I wanted to see if we could actually produce something that turned out palatable and enjoyable. And, you know, after several attempts, we got something that was really nice. And from there, that was kind of the encouragement along with the laws changing and allowing us to open it as a business. That was kind of the big kick where we thought, make a run of this. You still got that steel over there. You show me. Yes, sir. Yeah, that's pretty awesome.

So how do you, how do you figure out how to make a steel? I mean, was it Google or, or did you watch popcorn setting or, you know,

There's a lot of stuff out there on the internet. There's a lot of, there's, I mean, there's a lot of good books out there on, you know, people have been doing this for 5,000 years. Right. Yeah. Then caves. So, uh, some modern plumbing. So it was cave paintings, right? I believe so. Yes, sir.

Well, I think, you know, you, You're the American success story through and through, right? You served your country. You came back from war. You didn't let that get you down or anything. They probably taught you just like your brand says, to steal with discipline. I love that.

Yeah, definitely take a lot of the lessons learned from Marine Corps and time in Iraq applied to our business model. And, you know, we're always looking to improve the foxhole. We're not, you know, everyone will sit back on laurels. But yeah, it's really helped drive the company forward and I think create a platoon or a family atmosphere.

Wow. Yeah, we had a guest on, it's been a number of episodes ago, his name's Noah Glanville. He owns Pit Barrel Cookery Company. I don't know if you're familiar with Noah or not, but he said that when you exit the military, particularly a veteran who's served during wartime, you come back fully prepared. Well, you've got some challenges, obviously, but you come back fully prepared to be an entrepreneur because the kind of stuff you learn in the military is good equipment for an entrepreneur.

Absolutely.

Figured it out. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you guys recently just did a rebranding, is that correct? Yes, sir. And your labels, they look like an MRE package. Yes. I think that's almost awesome. And each label is a different color. You got a red, you got an orange, you got a green, a tan, and a blue one. And then a dark, I guess you'd call that dark brown, right?

Yes, sir. So we really wanted to focus the brand and help tell the story a little bit better, connect my time in the military with a quality craft spirit. And I think the packaging here really kind of links those two together, specifically the distilled with discipline, which I think our process and the way that we produce our spirits is really what sets separates us and sets us apart.

So, can you talk a little bit about the types of disciplines you employ here? Some of the things that you require of your people that sort of help you to get to that endpoint?

Sure. You know, I think I like to say extreme transparency and accountability up and down the chain of command. If there's a problem, I'm the problem. And that, you know, it's, you know, the buck does stop here, but I also count on our leadership to take that on them and live that every day. figuring it out. And most of the time people step up and knock one out of the park. Wow.

So you don't, you don't have a lot of people holding stuff in there. They're saying, Hey, we've got a problem here and this is what it is and take an ownership of it.

It's expected.

Yeah.

Good. So your title here will be not just owner and founder, but you'd be the sergeant major.

Yeah, a little bit of a starter major. More morale NCO than anything. Morale, there you go.

Well, I guess that will be morale NCO. We talked about that last week about how much alcohol or actually whiskey has ties to the military throughout military history.

Oh, absolutely. I traded gallons of whiskey for Copenhagen in Iraq. It's worth more than gold.

Wow. That's nice stuff to know right there. I guess so. Thanks, mom.

Smuggled it over with some green bottles.

So let's go back in time a little bit, back to when the idea spurred in your mind to start this. Can you tell us a little bit about how that blossomed?

Yeah. I think it was actually on our honeymoon. We were just talking and what-ifing and I said, I started a distillery. And she said, Jesus Christ, focus. You're almost through law school. What are you talking about a distillery? Just kidding.

That's not really what she said.

Well, I think it was, you know, she was like, oh, you know, that sounds great. I don't know. I think, you know, you need to follow through and finish. And I did. But at the same time, I think that she knew it. at that moment that, you know, the law was probably not going to be the path for me and that I was really going after this. And she went from, I guess, being a barrier of entry to the biggest fan, you know, and support and still very involved day to day and handles all of our she's our legal counsel now. So.

She's a lawyer? Yes, sir. So did you go ahead and finish up and pass the bar?

I didn't pass the bar. I passed another bar.

Okay. And then you stopped at the bar. Right.

And I opened this place and that was my focus and I really ran with it and never looked back.

Wow. That's a great story. It really is. Sometimes it's good not to look back and just look forward. And I'm sure you're still looking forward about putting up brick houses and building your brand, right?

Yeah. So we have in five years, we started in this facility here in downtown Indianapolis. It's about a 3,500 square foot building. We've added another production facility of about 7,000 square feet. And then we bought a farm five acres that we will eventually Build our Rick house and I would like to eventually get our entire Production facility out there as well kind of a one-stop shop Okay, so you You had that talk with her you guys to start this.

I just start this distillery How did that process go? I mean you had to find a still or make a still or whatever. So how did that start?

so Being in our last year of law school actually really helped. We had a few of my buddies that came on board early in the company and they were really good researchers and really good at administrative law, which is very important to get through the processing to get a DSP, Distilled Spirits Plant license from the federal government, the Tax and Trade Bureau. We were little honey badgers and we went and dug and dug and knocked on doors and kept resubmitting paperwork. It's funny because There's no fee that comes with the actual distilled spirits license from the federal government. It's free, but you essentially have to be operating as a distillery without producing anything before they'll give you the license. So it's a lot of the cart before the horse thing.

So you have to have a functioning distillery prior to getting issued?

At the time, they've changed a little bit because they understand the lag of, you know, if you're buying a still from Germany, That could be a year to 18 months before it actually lands in the US. Do you actually need to have it on property before they issue you the license? I think they've eased up on that. Back then, you had to have an actual serialized stamped still and all of your other equipment on premise, insured, bonded, ready to go. I mean, I got to tell you, understanding what a bond is, which is essentially an invisible force field that pays taxes if the place burns down, you know, how to put that in place was just a learning experience when you've never done it and you just got to ask.

Did you have any mentors? Anybody in the industry that said, hey, we'll help you with it? No.

No one that wanted to not charge an arm and a leg. Now, I will say we've met some very good folks along the way that have become absolute, I would say, partners and assets. Donald Snyder from Whiskey Systems really, I think, He was another kind of just out of nowhere person that we ran into at a conference. And it was early on when he was starting and just really got us in line early on taxation, bonding, transfer and bonding. Just understanding the intricacies within the business that you don't think about when, you know, I was naive starting out and just thinking, oh, I just want to make whiskey. And like, that's all I ever want to do is be on the still. And holy shit, did that change fast? And I'm rarely, if ever, actually in the art of making it now. I'm very jealous of the guy you're about to talk to here in a little bit.

So you really gravitate towards the actual operations. You like that a lot.

I do. So my dad built this thing right here. These are all Hoosier fieldstone that we pulled out of the ground.

And for those who can't see what he's pointing at, he's talking about the huge stone fireplace that's in the center of this room. And if y'all get a chance to come out here and visit, you'll get a chance to see it is really something.

Yeah, so he's third generation. So I kind of left the family profession, but I really, really enjoy the art of seeing the product of your labor at the end of the day. And this is my version of that. different than stone, but still enjoyable. And it actually pairs pretty well at the fireplace.

Absolutely. I think I'd be in trouble if I had this place, because I'd sit right here where we're sitting right, drinking some bourbon.

The worst is old, old elder ladies. They chicken hawk these seats and you'll see them fight over it on a Friday and Saturday night.

Yeah, I think I told you earlier that these two sofas here, that's a love seat and then this couch here, were both made by our sponsors of the show.

So they're going to love this, that we actually got to sit down on some of their stuff and record an episode.

These have hosted, these have seen a lot of butts. A lot of butts in these seats.

A lot of whiskey drinking out of these seats.

Absolutely. Nothing wrong with that though, right Jim? That's right. Absolutely. So I think I'm ready for that next pour. Cool.

Let's do it. So this, let's just recap here. We just had the six-year-old Reserve bourbon. It's a 90-proof bourbon that you sourced from Wyoming Whiskey. Yes, sir. And now what are we going to?

So the next is going to be a two-year high rye whiskey that we have contracted with Middle West Spirits out of Columbus, Ohio. So this is our recipe that we've worked out, and they've allowed us to use their equipment to produce it with.

Okay, so you provided them with the mash bill, and then you more or less were present for the first distilling run to make sure that they were doing everything the way you wanted it done. Absolutely. And now they're running with it for you. Yes, sir. Okay.

ramp up production size, right?

Well, it's two things. One, it is absolutely ramping up production. And two, it was something that we consciously knew that the size of our skill, there's only so many hours a day that you can run a mash through 150 or 600 gallons. Still, these guys had the capacity. We knew we were going to need it. Our only other option at that point was to go and source something that from MGP, which MGP has great juice. We love it. That's, you know, very good stuff. However, they have kind of a, it's, you know, this is what we have, take it or leave it. So a lot of the times we wanted something that was going to be closer to our end expression than jumping from something that might not even be close to something that was ours.

No, that's not, you know, that's not all that uncommon nowadays for young distilleries to contract out the production of their mash bill. And then as they start to build out their facility and get ready to produce that same mash bill locally, trying to mimic that so they can transition from one to the other. Right.

And we're doing that now. Eventually, this is a means to an end. Obviously, we would love to take everything in-house sooner than later. But yeah, as you just said, equipment's expensive, permitting takes time. So it's really growing into the space and while also creating a very good product, uh, that, that we own. So let's go ahead and taste this.

Just taste it. Cool. Cheers. Cheers guys.

Thank you.

Well, you can, it is a little younger, but it has a, it has a great, um, it has great first impression on the tongue. I like that. That's a, that, that is a, um, a little bit of a peppery on the side. What do you think? Definitely peppery.

Almost that black pepper taste on the sides and on the back end. Yep. Sweetness on the front though.

Absolutely. And again, this is 90 proof, so it is for that bad high alcohol content, I think it's for a rye, it's spicy, but it's not overpowering.

Now, when you say for a rye, you mean for a high rye bourbon. Correct. Yes, sir. I'm just thinking that's what's giving it that punch right there. And the mouth feel on this is different than your reserve. Absolutely.

Yes, sir. I'd almost say this almost drinks like a hundred proof.

Yeah, I would. I would agree.

Jim's a rye guy. He loves some rye.

I do like rye. I like rye a lot. In bourbon, much like food, I like my food spicy. I like my bourbon spicy too. Mike, you're a little bit on the sweet side there.

You're a sweet guy. I love spicy food. For me, weeded bourbon is the key. I'll drink some rye whiskey with you. There ain't no doubt about that. I wouldn't say that to me this isn't a sipper. To me, you could sip it, but you could also, it'd be a good mixer.

Absolutely. What about you, Travis? Where do you lean? Spicy or sweet?

I mean, I really do like the spicy. I think that the sweet is nice, but I'm going to drink a bourbon whiskey. I like a little bit of heat on it. Yeah.

Is that the Marine in you?

Yes, sir.

I tell you what, I think your two-year bourbon would stand up great in a cocktail. This is a good bourbon for a cocktail. And I'm not getting the extreme youth on this that I thought that I might on a two-year product.

It's good. It's not green. But yes, it is younger. But for a high-bride bourbon, I think it stands up very, very well. How do you typically drink your bourbon? Generally straight if I'm sipping. Highball every now and then? No, I mean ice. Ice. Maybe if it's hot out. Yeah. Remember right now and around the campfire, no ice.

I guess my thing on that is some of my friends say, why do you drink your whiskey neat? Why do you not put any ice in it or why don't you mix it and stuff? And I'm like, to me, The neat is the way the distiller wanted me to taste it. He's already cut it down. He's proofed it for me I want to taste that what he tasted or her I want to taste what they tasted and that's the way they wanted me to taste it. So

No, no, I mean, I agree. It's how I like it. But I think it's different strokes for different folks. And, you know, who am I to tell another man how to drink his whiskey?

Well, I mean, you guys are entertaining a lot of visitors here to your facility and you've got a lot of husband and wives popping in off the interstate, I'm sure.

You know, we have a great demographic. We joke, but it's true. It's 21 to 81, black, white, gay, straight. I mean, we get a great cross-section of people. You get America that comes in here. Absolutely. I mean, it's crazy when you see college kids with grandma and grandpa in here on a Friday night hanging out across the table from a completely different group of folks and getting along. It's a microcosm, but no one's on their phone. We have one TV in here that's usually off and everybody's in conversation drinking Our whiskey is usually off.

When is that time that it's on for the game?

I mean, it is, but we're not a sports bar. So it's kind of cool because we get the non sports folks and, you know, on the Colts day, you know, people will be busy, but it won't be sports fans.

So this is not your typical tasting room of a distillery. This is more of a four to close kind of, I don't know, speakeasy.

We get a great cross-section of people from business folks celebrating a business victory at the end of the week to reunions and homecomings. I love it. I think it's great to see people in here and not need Wi-Fi or you know other distractions that they can sit down and have a drink together and talk things out and Be real and and for those people that are showing up here To try out your your spirits.

I mean, they're gonna have somebody in tow Sometimes it needs something with a little bit of mixer with it. You guys have the ability to mix up you know, high balls or cocktails.

So, yeah, I can't speak highly enough of our mixologist and our bar staff. We create essentially everything from scratch. We've really taken the kind of craft kitchen into the bar scene. We make all of our own simple syrups, our bitters. So you make your own bitters here as well? Yeah, we do shrubs. Everything's seasonal. Our menu rotates, actually just rotated on Monday. So we're kind of into the fall, winter side of the menu. So you'll see you got more high balls. old fashions, stuff like that, but we will have a few classics that we keep on for everybody. We realize that not everybody is a bourbon or whiskey person, so we have several different selections. We have a gin, a vodka, a rum, And we have some liqueurs. We have a lemon cello, an orange cello, and a cherry liqueur that's all very good. And I think those stand up very well on their own, on ice, as a sipper. Or the orange on top of an old-fashioned is very good. So yeah, trust me, those bartenders will find something you like.

So if you're driving down I-65 or I-70, heading east or west or north or south, And you're sitting there listening to our podcast with your spouse. And you're thinking, they ask you to say, hey, we want to stop tasting bourbon. And you're like, I don't drink bourbon. Stop in at this place. And I guarantee that'll make you something you like. And you probably take a bottle home with you.

Absolutely. And that's one nice thing that we can do here, sell bottles from our tasting room. We don't do food. But that's OK, because we're in a very kind of cool, eclectic neighborhood where you've got many options from high end to good bar food within a block or two.

And does some of them deliver here? Oh yeah, absolutely. So people are ordering out and having it delivered here. Yes, sir. That's great.

You ever have food trucks or events here? Absolutely. We actually have our event space next door that you can rent out, but we also do things, smaller groups in here. We're pretty flexible on those. If we have enough time, we can usually pull off anything.

I could even see your orange cello taking some really good vanilla ice cream, pouring some of that orange cello in there and mixing it up and making like almost a sherbert ice cream.

I believe one of our, I swear to God, local ice cream vendors as we have one of those. I think they did it with our lemon over the summer, right? Doesn't that sound good?

I love some sugar ice cream.

Yes.

Yeah, that's really good. So we're going to get to try some of your other expressions in the second half and we're going to talk a little bit more about your facility here and your production operation and we're going to bring in your head distiller.

Absolutely. Bobby.

What do you think? Take a little break here and then come back? We'll finish this up. We'll finish it up and cheers. Cheers, guys. Thank you. We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Loghead's Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Loghead's Home Center, nestled in the hills of Kentucky, is an industry leader in building handcrafted rustic furniture. Family owned and operated, they take pride in offering only the very best for their customers. The Logheads, and that's what they like to call themselves, are skilled wood crafters who are passionate about creating rustic furniture for people who appreciate the beauty of natural wood. Owners Tommy and Gwen don't just sell the rustic lifestyle, they live it. And you can be sure that Loghead's furniture will always be handcrafted in Kentucky by artisans who embrace the simple way of life. Loghead's rustic furniture is made from northern white cedar, a sustainable wood that's naturally rot and termite resistant. Its beauty and quality will add warmth to your earthy lifestyle for generations to come. Be sure to check out everything they have to offer at LogHeadsHomeCenter.com. And while you're at it, give Tommy and Gwen a shout on Facebook or Instagram at LogHeadsHomeCenter.

We were back from our little break and

We've got a new guest with us. We've got the head distiller, Bob Yates. Welcome. Hello, thank you. Good to have you on. Good to be here. So we're gonna we're gonna ping you a little bit. We're gonna ask about some some technical stuff, what you do here. I love it. And about the distilling equipment. Hey, hey, hey. Hold up a minute now.

Before we get all into that technical stuff, what do we got in our hands, Jim?

Oh, yeah. What do we got? Man. Who wants to introduce what we have in the glass right now? Let's hear what old big Bob has to say.

Yeah, I'll let Bob take it from here. Go right ahead. All right. It's our straight rye whiskey. It's 95% rye, 5% barley, bottled at 100 proof. Liquid spice, right? It's spicy. It's got some baking spices, notes to it, some cinnamon, some nutmeg-y qualities to it.

Okay. Well, let's taste it. And then after we taste it a little bit, we'll talk a little bit about it. Perfect. All right. Oh yeah. It's candy.

Yeah. Yeah. It has like a, it definitely has a perceived sweetness to it almost. Yeah.

On the nose, I'm getting a little bit of citrus, like an orange. Yeah.

Absolutely. I may have needed the suggestion to get it, but I could do kind of get it now that you said it.

Have you ever smelled like... I'm going to really reach here, Mike. Don't say cedar. No, I'm not going to say cedar. I do get cedar a lot. Who's explained... Oh, Caleb was explaining that some people get cedar that's in their DNA. It's kind of a...

It's a memory that you have. Yeah, it's a memory. From something like if you worked in a horse barn and you've got that cedar clippings and you have that smell and that sensory that you grew up as a kid or something will come back to you when you smell something.

So what I'm getting is you know those incense sticks that you buy that you light and they burn down when you're in that, but they're not lit yet. So this has got that kind of a... Nogchampa.

Yeah, I agree, but I'll also admit that I have a very suggestive palate. If I hear it, I'm like, yes, of course.

Yeah, but I've always said this. I've always said, you know, if somebody says I'm picking a note up and you get it yourself because they suggested it, it's probably there. If somebody said they were getting something and you didn't get it, I don't think they could fool you into saying, yeah, that's pickle juice. I got it.

I would absolutely agree. If you said pickle juice, I'd say, I'm not picking that one up.

I was going to say I had a little smokiness in here, but it's actually the fire I smell. It smells great. I was going to say a little cat, but you guys, I keep looking up here at the fireplace and I see Fletcher Pickles up here.

Yes. He was our distillery, our first distillery cat. He tragically passed away. coming up on two years and we've since took a year off and now we've brought back another cat, Virginia Dill.

Virginia Dill. I like it.

Yeah.

And so Fletcher served well.

Absolutely. Good mouser, good mascot, laid back cat, came down, did his rounds every day and would go back and chill out looking down on his kingdom.

Now most of our listeners probably don't know, but if you go to a distillery, and you're inside there, you're going to see a cat, 100% of the time almost, right? Yeah, pretty much all the time. Yeah, you're going to see a cat running around. That's because they have all those grains laying around and grains come with what? They have some mice.

Yeah, old buildings, cold weather, dry grains, you're going to have mice and it's dual purpose. I mean, the resident cat people really love and also form and function.

So Bob, this 95 rye we're drinking here right now, what's the source of this rye?

It's a source from MGP. MGP, okay.

Yeah, MGP makes some excellent ryes. Absolutely. Their 95 rye is top of the heap as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, it is.

100%. And it is good at 100 proof, it's good at 90 proof, it's good straight out the barrel.

And this is at 100? Yes, sir. Okay.

And for our listeners that they're on that fringe, they're a French bourbon or whiskey drinker or something, and they're not big into the whiskey world. MGP is in Lawrenceburg, Indiana. Correct. Right across the river from Kentucky. Correct. So it's still southern, northern Kentucky.

Close to Cincinnati, right? Yeah.

Just down the road. So it was the old Seagram's plant where they produced for a long, long time. And then Midwest Grand producers bought it and still produce a ton of great, great products. Yeah.

It's kind of surprising how much distilled spirits that people take in are produced in Lawrenceburg or Southern Indiana.

A lot of corn up there, though. Oh, yeah. Yes, sir. You guys know how to grow some corn up here. Thank you. Yeah. Ain't nothing wrong with that, right? Ain't nothing wrong with it. Yeah, that's a working man's business right there. Yes.

So that's a very good right. Now, are you guys actually distilling a rye of your own now, or for the moment, you're just sourcing ryes?

Yeah. Correct. Just right now, we're sourcing rye. Rye is notoriously difficult to deal with in a mash situation. It binds up real, real tight. Not that we can't handle that or have experience with it. It's just we're knocking the easier things off the docket before we get into the rye. OK.

But that's in your future.

Oh, yeah. 100%.

So you were a brewer before you were a distiller. Yes, sir.

I've been brewing beer since I was 19. Wow. OK. Where were you brewing it? So, when I started when I was 19, I was brewing beer because I couldn't buy it. I moved out of my parents' house.

So, to bypass the laws, you were brewing beer.

Well, that's your words, not mine.

I believe in the law, if you make it, you can drink it.

And that's kind of how I felt. So I started making beer when I was 19, because I couldn't buy it at the store. And I had an apartment, and I wanted to party with my friends. And then that led to making wine, which led to making spirits, I mean. And then I got a job at a local brew pub called 20 Tap. It's in Broadripple. They kind of opened up at the cusp of craft beer. at least in Indianapolis. And the person who taught me how to do that work outside of me messing around in my garage, his name's Kevin, and he was by far the best teacher I could have ever wished for. He's an original brewer, one of the first brewers from Indiana back in the 90s was when the brew pub started. And he just really laid the foundation for me to be able to go forward and expand my knowledge on beer making, which leads to spirit making and the quality of that.

And the processes are the same up until the point where you end up with your distillers beer, right? Correct. So the only time they change is once you start stripping out the alcohol.

I like to refer to it as, because people ask the question a lot, has it been difficult going from beer to distilling? And I like to say that it's the same, but the boil's in a different place. We talked about sweet mash versus sour mash, of having that sterilization or that hermetic environment for your yeast when you're doing a sweet mash. That is beer making. If you were to put the right grains together, you could carbonate that, cool it down, sell it out of a tap. It's just the boil is in a different place, right? Instead of boiling it before you ferment, now we boil it after we ferment and turn it into alcohol.

So a distiller's beer would be a bit more sour, wouldn't it? Yes. OK, so probably not, unless you're a, what's the name of a sour beer? What's it called? Goose. A goose or a, yeah, there's a couple. Berliner Weiss. Berliner Weiss, yeah. So these are sour beers. So if you like a sour beer, you might like a distiller's beer mash beer, but probably not.

It gets a little touch and go.

Are you trying to achieve a little bit higher alcohol content here than you would in a beer?

Yes. It's all about efficiency, especially when you talk about going from, in our distillery, we do 20 barrels, which is around 600 gallons ish of distillers beer. And then once that goes through the whole process of turning into usable hearts, alcohol to sell into a bottle, it's not that much, you know, in the course of watching it from stage to stage, it's not a lot.

Yeah. So what do you end up with? What's the percentage of yield out of a, so you, you, you brew how much you brew 20 barrels, 20 barrels, 600 gallons. How many barrels of distillery white dog do you get?

So, um, on usually we're shooting for around 8-10% ABV. So of pure 100% alcohol coming off of that still, it's only going to be at most 10% of the total volume. And then outside of that, you have heads, hearts, tails. So the usable portion of that is only 30% of that 10%. So when you see it go down the line, The first time is kind of disheartening. It's kind of disheartening. But it's a beautiful thing. It really is. So let's switch gears here for a minute. Yes, sir.

So you're brewing beer. You're a beer brewer, I guess. Where did you meet this fine fellow Travis at?

At my bar.

Yeah. And they're drinking beer.

And they're drinking beer, not my beer.

Not your beer.

And that was my introduction to Travis is why aren't you drinking my beer? Because he was with a mutual friend of ours who does drink my beer when I used to work there.

And then Travis is like, well, you're not drinking my whiskey, so.

Something of the sort.

Something of the sort, yeah. So Travis, how do you get Bob here to come work for you?

Man, I think that we were very lucky. It was a lot of timing. I think that Bob was looking for a little bit more freedom of expression and we were growing and we wanted to have somebody that could take on the role of kind of the driving force of that part of the company. the creative expression part while still maintaining the process and the distilled with discipline that the procedures and are being followed. And Bob is a rule master, which is great when you want to have quality and consistency as part of the recipe.

I thought it was because you liked him because he broke the law too. Are you sure you're not the cops? I keep talking about it all the time. I actually was thinking back to when I was in the army and stuff and when I first joined in the barracks, they had these beer machines. And when I first came in, you had a pay window. So you'd go up to the window and you would scream out your social security number in front of 500 people. And then they would count your money out to you. And then I would take that money, and I would go to the bank, and I'd be like, I need six rolls of quarters, please. And he would just look at me like, why is this guy getting six rolls of quarters? So I take those six rolls of quarters and go back to the barracks. And they had a beer machine down in the morale room. And I would sit there and just shove quarters in that thing at $0.50 at a time for beers and just kept pressing those beers. And I'd get myself a case of beer and go up to my barracks room. We'd go up to the roof of the barracks and sit out there with our legs hanging over four stories and sit there and drink beer for 50 cents a pop.

So my question is, what beer were you getting for 50 cents a pop that you were getting a full case of in one can at a time?

Well, it's on a military base, so things are going to be a little bit cheaper. We're going to get into that about you guys here in a second. It was Budweiser, Miller Lite, Coors, Coors Lite and stuff like that. Pre-craft. This is back in 91, 92, 93. So those were the only options. You had a Bud and a Miller and that was it. I tell you, what if they had had a $5 bourbon that would have shot out of that thing? I'd have drank that too. Yeah. So where are you guys? You got some other expressions here. We're drinking this rye. We're going to move on to that gin.

Oh, we can. I just want to say about the rye. This is complex. This is a good rye. And you picked some good barrels here. Thank you. So I'm assuming you picked a number of barrels and then you blended this rye from those barrels. Correct. Yeah.

Yeah. Again, I really got to say how much we rely on Bobby for these things. I mean, a lot of it is anecdotal, but I mean, you can stand around and what if around a few barrels of, is this the right one or is that lot the right one? And having someone that you can count on that can pull out some of these notes and understand what happens when you do from one barrel to 12 barrels, how that complexity changes is really hard to kind of forecast and he does a great job for us.

So did you purchase and blend the entire thing at once or do you do it on demand? Kind of, I guess.

Well, the first portion of RIE that we got when we first introduced it into our portfolio was a finite number. So that was its own specific blend of

Nine?

I want to say it was nine barrels that we first blended.

Decent size batch, yeah.

Yeah, it was. And so now we are kind of meeting that to sensory analysis.

Okay, got it. Perfect. Well, job well done. That's a good rye. Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Thank you. Let's move on to that gin.

I'm ready. Yes, sir. So when we first got started, as initially, and again, this is back in the, we were just Rob and Peter to pay Paul days to stay alive. We started with three clears, our rum and vodka were the first things we really started to produce here. And then our gin was really the first. kind of jump into something that wasn't a straight distillation, but that there was a little bit more nuance. And more craft too, right? Absolutely. And gin is a real beast for a lot of reasons, but quality and consistency are the two big things that can get out of whack real quick. So this gin is going to be more of an American style, much more citrus forward than a tangere or a London dry style.

Okay. All right. So this is made with your, with your Rymash bill.

It is just corn.

Just corn.

So this is a hundred percent corn.

So this is a corn whiskey that's distilled to a high proof.

I would not, I mean, just for clarification sake, I would say it would be more of a vodka, a grain neutral spirit distilled from corn more so than it would be a whiskey mash. But it turns out the same. It's a high proof all corn mash that we take the distillate from. We steep in juniper, star anise seed. lemon, orange, and angelica root. Okay. Is it lemon verbena?

No, it's lemon peels. Lemon peel itself, okay.

Yeah, lemon and orange peels. That's what I was getting on that nose was juniper, I think.

Yeah, you could say that this is...

So still predominantly juniper is going to be the highest percentage of botanicals within it. Correct. That's what makes it gin. But I think that our Our mix of the citrus, namely the orange and the lemon peel is really what kind of brings out that softness. It's not so overpowering that it tastes like you're drinking a Christmas tree. This is great for somebody that's either a gin ganasaur or somebody that's never had gin or afraid of gin because they're like, that's just, that's like a, that's a drinker's drink spirit. But Actually, across the board, folks love this.

Yeah. I'm getting a great nose on it. It's light and sweet. So we're drinking gin straight here, fellas. Yep.

And it's at 90 proof. Yep. So it'll get the job done.

Yeah. It's mostly juniper, but it is backed up with that citrus. And that citrus doesn't come off as, you know, after it's been stripped from the alcohol into the alcohol and then distilled out. tart or sharp, it is very much so like the, on the breathe out, on the exhale.

This is definitely different. This is different than, you know, so you guys are not doing any chill filtering, right?

No.

Yeah. Cause I can tell. Yeah. I could tell. I mean, there's, there's a creaminess to this. There's a butteriness to this.

Absolutely. Jim, if you would have said, I get cedar in this, I would have been like, yep, got that.

You get juniper, right? Absolutely get juniper.

Actually, this is pretty dang good.

Something that's, as our first kind of delve into gin, I think we really did a good job on this one.

So you're steeping and you've got a gin basket. Correct. So you're really hitting this twice with those botanicals.

Yeah, the gin basket doesn't lend a lot as far as like slap you in the face flavor or aroma, but it does add some nuance. And so you can shove Grapefruit or we at one point we shoved grapefruit and rosemary just to as a little small test in our gin basket. And it really, you know, just a little bit goes a long way and it adds a lot of depth and nuance. So how long have you been here? I think that is it's over two years. Yeah. I didn't start off as the head distiller. I started off, um, just juice and lemons, juice and lemons, juicing lemons, the lemon juicer guy. That was me.

Okay.

And then, yeah, it was, I, I started here when I was still running the small brewery that I was running. Okay. Um, and then one thing led to another and I, I kept saying, Hey guys, I would, I'd love to come and make some booze for you.

You were looking for, you're looking for that promotion.

Always. Aren't we all?

Well, I tell you what, don't change this. Leave it right where it is because this is really good.

It's very enjoyable. I don't know. I know that it is a trend in other countries. I don't know a lot of people that drink gin just straight or neat, but this one you could do.

This one you can do. So I've got a couple of gins that I really like. I don't know if you had the Castle & Key gin. Delicious gin. Tasty. But different than this. Absolutely. They're very different, but they're both Equally good. I think thank you. You did a good job here.

Thank you. Yeah We're gonna move on to that next one. Yeah, what do we got?

This is Travis's favorite Too much coffee, right? All right.

So this has been really fun It's it's a cherry liqueur Again, this was born, a lot of our stuff comes out of the tasting room that our staff wants to be able to put something on the menu, but there wasn't something in our current lineup that they could use. And they're pretty creative. So when they asked to have something with a little bit more of a tart background on it, we thought, well, let's do something with a cherry. Most cherries that you see in a bar are going to be the super sweet kind of Luxardo and super expensive. We were able to find some places up in Traverse City, Michigan that has some very good cherry farms. Did you guys go up there? Well, my sister and I actually have family up there, so we're very familiar with that area. Been going up there since we were kids.

Beautiful. If you haven't been up there, it's an absolutely beautiful area. Right.

And kind of the one thing that they have up there with those cherries in Northern Michigan, their short growth season is they don't get as big and they're really tart. And when I say tart, they're not sour, they're still sweet, but just not so almost that syrupy kind of sweet sweet from some of the Italian cherries. So we got this and I'll let Bob kind of tell you about the mix and

So it is actually a whiskey-based liqueur. Okay. Well, bourbon, should I say.

Okay. So are you starting with your... Two-year. Your two-year bourbon here. So this is an aged bourbon. Correct. That is then enhanced with cherries.

Yes, so it starts off with a blend of our two-year bourbon and some grain neutral spirit just to make sure that the ABV is up where we want it. It's bottled at 56 proof, 28%. Okay. So it is a blend of grain neutral spirit, our two-year bourbon, and Montmorency cherry juice with a little bit of lemon and vanilla just for some depth. But it is very simple, very few ingredients, and very, very good.

My God, this is like drinking your next door neighbor's baked cherry pie. Yeah, it is. That bourbon maybe give it that crust of it. And then that cherry kicks in. I mean, it is delicious. It is tart.

It is sweet. You know, being low ABV, you don't get a lot of the bite from the alcohol as far as it being kind of the back of the palate. But you still get some ump from it being whiskey or from it being bourbon.

I'd say this is pretty sexy.

Yeah. Thank you, sir.

I love it. Is it wrong to say that there's a little bit of tobacco to this?

I'd say a little bit of leather, a little bit of tobacco. For sure. Wow.

I think that comes from the skin of the cherry, plus the bourbon, plus the barrel and smoke.

That is so interesting. I could serve this at Thanksgiving dinner. It truly is. Where's the pumpkin pie or cherry pie at? You're drinking it right here.

I tell you, if you want a cherry liqueur that's not overly sweet and just has an amazing depth of flavor,

Yeah, on ice. This is one cube of ice on this and just let it melt. Honestly, this is what I'm going to kick on right now. I'm amazed.

I can't get over the tobacco in this. So yeah, I guess I'm picking up tobacco. But yeah, I mean.

I'm glad you said that because I've been telling people when they ask, they're like, what is that extra? And I'm like, it's just got this little funk or this little kind of little stank on the end of it that you're like, it's nice, but it's kind of.

It's red man.

Yeah, it is.

It is. Let's not turn people off. No, but it's in a very good way.

In a good way. I still taste that good baked crust on it almost in this right here. To me, that brown, buttered, caramely delicious top and that deep crust of apple pie or cherry pie being this right here.

And it's a little bit thicker. If you put it in the freezer, it'll thicken up a little bit more. It won't freeze. It is so good in the summer. I mean, it kind of goes all year round. I mean, yeah, it can go good as an after-dinner aperitif in the wintertime or as a crushed ice on the front porch in the summertime.

I think our wives will beat us if we don't bring home some of this. I think I got to take one home. Yeah. Man, this is amazing stuff.

Okay, so you have some other flavored liqueurs that you make here. Can you tell us a little bit about those?

We have a lemon and orange cello. So lemon cello being the kind of classic Italian liqueur. We bottle ours at a higher proof than what you see usually. It's at 70 proof. And then the orange liqueur was brought in just for a little bit of flair. They are made the same, just different citruses.

And when you get people coming into your tasting bar here or into your bar in the evening times, I mean, which of those are they drawn to the most and what kind of drinks are they ordering with those?

I would say that people gravitate towards the limoncello. Okay. And then say, well, now I'm going to try the orange.

Okay. Yeah. I think lemon's probably something they're either come across or more familiar with.

As you're starting that on ice, just drinking that on ice or?

So our lemon cello, we have on ice, but we also have it as, I would say, both that stands on its own in cocktails and as a topper or mixer for other ones.

So we kind of use it in three different phases. You said a creamier here or ice cream company here is using your products. Yeah, we've got several local partnerships.

Circles. circles ice cream. Yeah.

Okay. What are they making out of it?

His name is Wes. Wes Duboy. He has like the best name I've ever heard in my life. Wes Duboy is his name. And he makes so many. I mean, he, I think that he's used every one of our spirits for his ice creams. He makes a bourbon apple pie. He makes lemon blueberry with our lemon cello. He's just all over the place. Very heavy support.

I guess as long as you circle less than what is it? One and a half percent alcohol. You're OK. Is that what it is?

Yeah. I don't know what happens with ice cream making. It could be the same way that heating it, cooling it.

He had some rum raisin too, I think. He might have. He's awesome.

And ice cream is good. What states can our listeners find your product in?

So we're distributed in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio. We're entering Wisconsin, Texas. And then We kind of count the United States military as our other big market. So we're in all branches. We're in 75 bases throughout the United States from Maine, sold all the way up in Hawaii.

Yeah. And you said you're going to be going up to Kodiak pretty soon here too, right?

Yeah, we just got a really, we had a great meeting with the Coast Guard last week. We're hoping to get an expansion to Kodiak in the spring. And yeah, we'd love to go up and do some bottle signings and tastings with those guys. And, you know, Hopefully get to hang out and we love to support vets. And when we go out and do meet and greets, it's always fun to hang out and party with the guys a little bit.

Absolutely. Yeah. So you've got some things happening in your future. You got some plans. Can you tell us a little bit about what the next five years look like for Hotel Tango?

Yeah, I think that one, really starting to bring some of those barrel production, bourbon stuff in-house. I'd really like to expand our capacity to store bourbon barrels out at our farm. Another big rick house is definitely in our future. We're going to outgrow our current production space and I think if we could put another big barn out at the farm and kind of a one-stop shop where folks can come and actually see the entire process from grain to glass, that's what hopefully in the next five years that's the goal and continue to grow. We'd love to go Oconus, so outside continental United States with the United States military. That's another big goal we'd like. Honestly, just keep growing. Saturate and push out through the Midwest. People just keep asking for it. Wherever they're asking, that's where we want to go next.

Where can our listeners find you guys on social media?

They can find us at Hotel Tango Distillery.

Okay, and you've got a website as well.

Yes, it's HotelTangoWhiskey.com.

Okay, great. So guys, we really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with us today. We really enjoyed drinking your bourbon and your whiskies and your liqueurs. They're all very good. You've got quite a craft here. Thank you.

Thank you guys so much. I guess we'd like to end it with a thank all our veterans out there. Travis, thank you for your service and thank you sister for her service. And we'd like to thank all our veterans out there this time of year.

Absolutely. Thank you guys so much. Happy Veterans Day. Hope you guys are always welcome to come on in. I'm generally here day to day, so if you're a vet and you're listening and you're stopping in, just let me know and I'll come over and have a drink with you.

Sounds good. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Cheers. We do appreciate all of our listeners, and we'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to hang out with us here on the Bourbon Road. We hope you enjoyed today's show, and if so, we would appreciate it if you'd subscribe and rate us a five star with a review on iTunes. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, at The Bourbon Road. That way you'll be kept in the loop in all the Bourbon Road happenings. You can also visit our website at thebourbonroad.com to read our blog, listen to the show, or reach out to us directly. We always welcome comments or suggestions. And if you have an idea for a particular guest or topic, be sure to let us know. And again, thanks for hanging out with us.