458. Back to Lexington: Four Pours at RD1 Distillery

Oh friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon, and I'm your host, Todd Ritter.

We've got a great show for you today. So grab your favorite pour and join us.

Hey roadies, it's Diane Strong with Bourbon on the Banks Festival. We've got another amazing event coming your way this year. Be sure to join us at the half and I'll tell you a little bit more about the event taking place October 4th, 2025.

Todd and I are proud to have Smokies Lifestyle Cigars as the sponsor of this episode and as the official cigar of the Bourbon Road podcast. Our hosts and listeners alike enjoy the ultimate experience of premium cigars. Smoky's Lifestyle Cigars are where flavor and craftsmanship meet. Find out more during the halftime break and at smokyslifestylecigar.com. The Surgeon General warns that cigar smoking can cause lung cancer and heart disease and is not a safe alternative to cigarettes. Alright listeners, welcome back once again. Todd and I are on the road. We have traveled, we have turned our sights eastward and we've both traveled. We're sitting in Lexington, Kentucky today. We are at RD1 Distillery. They happened on the show. It has been a minute.

Yeah, episode 340 is the last time they were on.

Alright, well time to get some update.

Yep. We're here with, and not his first trip here, Barry Brinegar and Jared Gullohue. Welcome to the show, guys. Thank you. Thank you.

Great to have you guys on again. Barry, we go way back. I think I had you on probably in one of the first 20 episodes, maybe.

Yeah. I remember it was when I was with the Lexington Bourbon Society and we were at base 110, right? Yeah, yeah. That corner office there.

That was a blast. We had a great time. We had a great time. It was a lot of fun.

So Base 110 was the building?

Yeah. Kind of a co-working space.

It is, yeah. That concept's kind of out of vogue now. A lot of people are working from home, but it worked during that time.

Sure, sure. Yeah, and I think I had David Jennings on there too at Base 110. It was kind of fun. Kind of a fun place to do episodes at. Yeah. But anyway, we are here and we've got some RD-1 whiskies with us. Our listeners obviously like us to get to that first pour pretty quick. What do we have in our first class?

Jared, do you want to talk about this? This is your baby.

Oh, yeah. So our first pour that we have here is our limited time release that we have. It's the Sister Cities release. It's a Kentucky straight whiskey. So it's a combination of bourbon and rye. So five and a seven year old bourbon and an eight year rye. And then, you know, following with RD1, we do a lot of really good wood finishing. We have this with a combination of Mizunara and French oak. And then the the naming on this is, you know, we try to to do things, to celebrate Lexington in central Kentucky. Lexington has two sister cities, one in Shinodaka, Japan, where the Mizunari comes from, and Deville, France. Now, there are a few other sister cities, I was told, after we released this, but they have the all same species of oak. So, yeah.

Well, if you do a second release someday, you can mention them.

We'll give them another sister city. It's the same species of French oak.

Now, our listeners will, if they've listened to us lately, we have tried this. We tried it on just kind of a show where we had some sample bottles sent to us. And yeah, this is outstanding. It's really unique.

Well, let's give them a fresh look. What do you say?

Because I think this is the first Mizunari French oak I've ever seen, maybe. I think it is the only one.

I don't remember if I saw anything else whenever I was writing my plan for it. Yeah.

It's pretty unique.

Yeah. All right. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. And it's a light touch. It just, the Mizunara comes through. It does, but it's not been like... It's measured. It's measured. That's a good word.

I like that. Yeah. And you can, on the aroma on this, that eight-year rye, you're picking up a lot of nice floral notes from that eight-year rye. I absolutely love the nose. It's very complex. Because you're getting some of the influence of that Mesonara wood. And I think for me, the French oak comes across better on the palate.

So these whiskeys spent a good amount of time in their original barrels. And then they were exposed to Mesonara and French oak afterwards. How long did they spend in that environment?

We don't usually talk about that. That's our trade secret kind of thing.

But sometime. Oh, yeah.

And with all of these, we're going to the profile that we want. So it's a lot of sensory on it.

Now, is Mizunara a species that imparts its flavors rather quickly, or is it one that takes time? Because I'm curious. I know there are some out there that really stomp on the whiskey a little bit. And I'm just curious about the Mizunara.

Well, what I've found, because we do also have some barrels of straight bourbon finished with Mizunari that kick around, and it depends on the mash bill. It really does. So on just the straight bourbon, It takes some time to get established. I have noticed sensory impact with as little as three weeks. Oh, wow. Well, it's subtle, but it's there at three weeks. And then I'm more happy with it when we're talking like half a year. But then it gets pretty dominant. It's one of those things that you're playing towards what profile you want. Light touch or heavy touch?

I ask the question not because I want to know how long it's been in contact with the whiskey. It's just that I wonder how much on the edge of your seat are you while you're making it? Are you concerned that it's going to get there really quick? Because some of that stuff, and let's just take one out of the air, one real quick. You know, if you've got an Ambarana, you're on the edge of your seat. You're like, win, win. Tasting it quite often, right?

Oh, well, yeah. I've got stories about the second pour. Let's just say I put a lot of miles on my truck for the second one. Yeah, you're right on that. With this one, I wasn't super worried about over-influence because I knew we had the French oak in there to kind of back it. And then for me, I was real happy with it as we were moving forward. It was really figuring out that final proof point on it. And Barry saw me during the blending process of all of this. And it's always funny as we get to talk about these, but this is getting close to like a year ago for me. I'm like, what was I doing a year ago? And it's really the playing with the proof to get this like nice aroma and complexity, but then also to tone down the heat. Because what I was finding with this base whiskey was is that if it got too hot, it It got real hot the higher proof it was, because we obviously did this at a higher proof for the finishing and then brought it down.

Sure.

So yeah, Mizinar can be overly strong, but it really depends on if you're doing wood finishing like we are by just adding additional wood or if you're using a full barrel. And full barrel Mizunara has some other challenges to it that, thankfully, we don't mess with too much.

And Mizunara is not a cheap wood to work with, right? I mean, it's pretty pricey stuff.

It is. Yeah. When you get the full barrels, they're usually made in Japan, known for making very expensive things that are artisan-y. Yeah. And then, well, I haven't worked with the barrels myself. I have heard that they can leak pretty bad. just because the wood lacks some of the, it's called Tyloses. It's one of the structures in a wood that prevents leakage when you make a barrel. It's like a balloon. So I usually describe it as chewing gum in the straw.

Wow.

So one of the things I noticed when we got the press release about this was it spoke of, like you guys use some sort of chains with, like a necklace almost, I believe is what it was called?

Yeah, the oak chains. That's how we use to make our French oak skew that we have. And those are from central France where we get that wood. The way that their production system is they have to split their barrels or split the wood to make the barrels there. And that leads to a considerable amount of waste. And what these oak chains allow us to do is to use some of those waste products because the wood is really limited. And whenever you're working with French oak, you're also fighting against winemakers. And I always joke, winemakers have a much larger oak budget than distillers do, because they're going to keep that barrel forever. I was trying to source a French oak barrel from a winemaker and you thought that I was trying to buy his mother. It was kind of crazy. We use these oak chains for our French oak and we really like them. It gives us a lot of control and then it gives us some logistical control as well. Whenever it's done, I can just yank it out of the bung or the tank or however. Yank the chain so to speak. And then we'll sell some of those in the gift shop and I usually keep a nice stockpile of them at the house for smoking barbecue where we do a smoked oak and maple that I'll use pieces of wood from the gift shop or from our production.

There's a nice nuttiness coming through on it too. Is that the French oak?

Contribution more or less? That's more of the base whiskey is the nutty part of it. And then the French oak kind of rounds it out. Cause the way it was going while I was working on it, it crescendoed instead of like having a round note at the end. So like it, it really balanced it out by with that French oak. Cause it, it ended on a high point and I didn't like that. I was like, let's, let's soften this a little bit.

It's got a light bright flavors to me, like a bit of citrus.

That's a combination of the rye and mizunara.

It's also that savory note that you get from mizunara.

It's really balanced on the palate. It washes back nice and clean. I'm getting a little bit of the salivating going on and a little bit of a small bite on the back.

Yeah, you know what I call that? I call that a Kentucky whisper. You know, typically with like a Booker's, you get that Kentucky hug where it burns from the mouth all the way down to the stomach. This one is, like you mentioned, it's very well balanced. The friendship for me gives a little bit of the chocolate note, you know, kind of a baking chocolate note. But that stone fruit is evident on my palate. The Mizunari for me gives a little bit of spiciness on that mid palate, but there's a Japanese incense that's been associated with Mizunari wood, and I get that whisper kind of right on the finish. But it's very well, it hits a lot of the flavor parts of the palate.

Have you had this with a cigar?

I have not had this one with the cigar. The next one we're getting ready to sample that we get into, I have. This would absolutely pair nicely with different styles of cigar.

Yeah, I think it would. Really nice.

It's been a while, Barry, since you've been on. If we've got some new listeners out there, give them the background of RD1, if you would.

Registered distillery number one. We started the brand back in January 2020. Really, the goal was to recognize Lexington's contribution to the distilling world. There's a lot of history here in Lexington specifically. The first registered distillery was called the Ashland Distillery. The Ashland Distillery was started in 1865. Then, of course, William Tarr bought the distillery in 1871. So significant amount of history. So one of the things that we set out to do was to kind of help recognize that by getting Lexington on the Bourbon Trail, on the Kentucky Bourbon Trail. We were not listed on there. And so fortunately, we, along with other distilleries, had a conversation with Mary Quinn, the the president and CEO of VisitLex. So she stroked a check for $25,000 to get Lexington on the Kentucky Bourbon Trail. So we checked that box off in 2023. We're on the Bourbon Trail since 2024, seen significant amount of people coming to Lexington for the Kentucky Bourbon Trail. But, you know, so the What you're seeing right now is this brand, what more can Kentucky bourbon do with wood finishing? And we doubled down on it, so much so, we brought in a wood scientist. Jared Gollohue is very educated. He understands flavor development, as you can see with this LTO, which was his first expression that he brought to market. Super excited, you know, you look at our brand destination here, we could go and take a deep dive into the history, but we can also, you know, give visitors an experience that's more of a immersive experience where you can come, you can, you can, you'll be able to book a tour with Jared and have this whole blending experience. So we're super excited about the future of Lexington and what this area is going to offer. We'll talk a little bit more about the development here and what we'll have coming up in the next 12 months.

Awesome. It's a beautiful place and it is my first time here. Todd has been here before he came to your grand opening, but this looks like an up and coming little area right here. It's got a great future.

Yeah, absolutely. 100% does.

Bring your pickleball.

Pickleball kingdom. Largest pickleball courts in America have just been opened up here. I don't know how many courts they have, but

Can I tell a funny story? Yeah, of course. So there was the other day we were here doing a different podcast and I was here on Saturday morning and this this older lady comes up to knocks on our front door before we're open and and she goes, are you Pickleball Kingdom? I said, no, ma'am, we're a distillery and point to the large pot still. And she's like, where's Pickleball Kingdom? I'm like, it's down the road on the right.

But you can have a drink here and go play pickleball or the other way around.

Or there's also an axe throwing place down there. So you could come and have a drink here and go down to the axe throwing place. You have no liability for what they do after they leave your spot. All right.

Those axe throwing places. I love it. I love it. Well, this is a great whiskey. I think it's wonderful. We haven't had it on the show before, but it's nice to sit with you guys and have you talk about it a little bit and tell us what went into making this wonderful expression.

Yeah. And you know, one other thing to talk about here is the price point. You know, typically when you see an allocated bourbon or whiskey come to market, it's fairly expensive. And what we did, we were able to keep our costs low and bring this out at the same line item price as all of our other wood finishes. So $69 for this, same as our French oak, our Ambarana and oak and maple. It is priced to move.

That's fantastic.

That is fantastic.

That's really, really good. Now this, just to be clear, this is not a bourbon, this is not a rye, this is a... A whiskey. It's a whiskey, so it's an American whiskey.

It is. The classification, Jared, you correct me if I'm wrong, it is an American whiskey. I don't like to say blend because blending kind of brings the connotation that we're using neutral grain spirits, and they're all straight. So it's a straight five and seven year bourbon and a straight eight year all Kentucky distillates, the eight years of rye. So it goes from being a straight whiskey to finished in French oak and finished in I'm pretty clear on the label though.

You guys put it all out there for everybody to see, absolutely.

Oh yeah, it's right next, it's the second largest text after RD1. We have a joke of like, I wonder how much I can fill the bar with descriptors.

Well, in addition to being podcasters in the industry and makers in the industry, we're also whiskey drinkers. And we appreciate those kind of things, don't we? I mean, it really makes all the difference in the world when you can look at a label and know exactly what you're getting ready to purchase. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Now, do you guys know about how many cases you put out of this?

We do, yeah. We produced 1,500 cases to the market. We're just in a meeting, a staff meeting, and I think we have depleted at this point. Jared, I don't think you were on the call at that point. I think it's like 880 cases have been depleted, and we've shipped probably a total of 1,200 cases. So we have a few more left over. Kentucky may have a few more cases than any other markets across the US.

So it's still out there, folks. Still out there.

You can get it.

We are bringing it to the Bourbon Festival coming up in Bartstown. Yeah.

Fantastic. All right, so shall we move on to the next board?

All right, so this next board, Jared, you want to talk about this? You want me to? You can start and I can chirp in with. So this is a 10 year Kentucky straight bourbon. We really felt that we wanted to showcase our Ambarana wood with an aged distillate. And I don't know how much you guys know about wood finishing, but you have to be really delicate once you get to that 10-year mark, as Jared will testify here momentarily. But this one is a bourbon drinker's bourbon. Like you guys, I'm a consumer, and I love a full-bodied, Rick House experience. So when you walk into a Rick House, you get hit with that angel share, that beautiful aroma, but then you get the influence of those barrels. So you get the oak, you get the leather, the tobacco notes. These are all going to be part of the flavor components on this one. This one is a Rick House experience.

So, you're saying that when it gets to 10 years, all these wonderful notes that you talked about, the leather, the tobacco, all the extra age notes start to shine, and that's why you have to be really careful with finishing on it?

No, and I didn't describe that too well. So once you start getting a barrel in the eight year plus range, seven to eight year plus range, there's so much wood extraction that's happened in that original distillate that it's going to take on any more wood much more quickly. So as you're finishing it, you've got to be aware of that and make sure that we don't over extract.

So the wood kind of becomes hypersensitive to additional wood additions, or whatever you want to say. The additional wood.

Much wood could have wood chucked.

Much wood could have ate barrel take.

Yeah, and a lot of this is going to be mash build dependent. So one of the things I've been thinking about this a lot lately is that each distillery has their own liquid streams as everyone in the industry is going in towards finishing. You can't make assumptions between finishes because there's different styles. So different ideas about how heavy touch you want to go. And then we have, you know, a lot of different stuff in our warehouse and I've played with a lot of it.

And I'm like, well, that mash bill doesn't work for this.

OK, so this is 10 year old. bourbon in it, we wanted to go light with the Ambarana to respect that base whiskey. So if anyone that's had our normal Ambarana, this is a very different experience. It was from the beginning when we had our first call about making this product. And this was just as I had finished out at the university and had my farewell party and it was coming on. And we're like, OK, we're going to release a 10-year-old and you're going to finish it in Ambarana. Are you sure about that? And so this was, I was like, okay, if we're gonna do this, let's go real light touch with it and add accent and nuance rather than smother, because Ambaronic can be really strong. So this one, why it was finishing, I would go down and taste it twice a week. and racked up several thousand miles on my truck.

Yeah.

Driving to the warehouse to do it. Because we were really worried about that over influence on it.

I can believe that.

Yeah, I think I mean, you hear a lot of folks say you guys probably do Ambarana better than than anyone. I mean, that's I think it's absolutely true. I think it can be overdone and you guys just give it like I'd say the chef's kiss almost of Ambarana, but

Yeah, I mean, it can be, and I'm sure it will be as we taste this, an amazing experience. But by the same token, you know, we received a lot of Ambarana barrels from distilleries all over the country and some great and some a little bit too much, you know. And it's hard to get past the neck on one that's too much. Right. So whenever you get one that's that's has been done well, it's a it's a real treat.

Thank you.

Nice ginger note on this. I love it. Yeah. Candy ginger.

You know, as I, as I know this, I'm thinking Melody, where are you? You would love this. She loves this stuff. Yeah. Really nice.

Still getting that age of that tenure though. It's just kind of in the background. It's nice.

Yeah, you're definitely getting that, that earthy, you know, kind of leather oak.

Oh, wow. That is concentrated flavor. Cheers. Cheers, by the way. Yeah, that's wonderful. That is so good. The nose leads you. It's like this, uh, this old friend that just leads you into the palate. You can smell that nose in the palate comes in. It's like,

And while we're being pretty responsible with these pours here, when Barry and I were doing the sensory on it for the tasting notes, obviously using larger pours on it, it's a whiskey that was really frustrating to write the flavor notes because as you sit with it, it changes. And you get new things that pop in and out of it. And there were some times where we would compare notes and we learned a lot about each other's vocabulary on that one, because I was just like, yeah, I'm getting this like weird licorice note. And he's like, licorice. And then I look, I go, oh, no, that's got the. And it's not like overbearingly licorice. It's just every once in a while you get like this little pop of anise in there.

I can see that.

And everything kind of goes in and out. This is definitely more of like your bourbon connoisseur. I'm going to sit and pick it apart with some buddies. Yeah.

This is fantastic. I mean, it was a wise choice to pull in a 10-year whiskey for this. This is really nice.

Yeah, that's a fun one. And I got to clarify this. You know, Jared said we learned a lot about our vocabularies. He's at a PhD level, right? So, I mean, his vocabulary is at a PhD level. You know, little Barry's vocabulary. I'm like elementary school.

This is good. Jared just kind of looks at me. There have been times in the warehouse where we both just looked at each other and put good on the barrel.

Good and smooth.

That's a nice barrel. Check.

That's all right. I mean, that's the main thing, right? First, it has to just appeal to your palate overall without notes, without all the other things. Does it drink well? It drinks well.

Yeah, I could see that definitely going well with a cigar for sure.

Yeah, this one's a barrel proof.

Yeah, 117.78. Okay. Does it not drink that?

It doesn't. And what I love about that Ambarana on the finish is that it's light. It is a hint of some of the spices that you get in a typical Ambarana. Cinnamon, nutmeg, clove, allspice. But it's just right there on the finish for me. It's not overpowering. You don't want, you don't need anything overpowering. The whiskey itself has enough legs.

I know when you're walking through a Rick house and there might be 10,000 barrels in there and you're walking through a Rick house and you walk within 20 feet of an Ambarana barrel, you're like, you get it, right? I mean, it's very apparent that there's an Ambarana barrel within shouting distance. You just know it. It's a strong flavored wood and it does such a wonderful job when it's treated right. This is really good. You guys have got these amazing hummingbirds out here.

Actually, I think that's just a sparrow, but it's pretty funny. I think he wants a drink because he tried to come through the window. It's a sparrow that likes to drink. Yeah. If the folks out there heard a thud, that's what that was. He bounced into the glass here.

So again, what was the proof on this?

117.78. 117.78. And one more time, the price on this is going to be a little bit different than what we had in the first port.

Yeah, this is an expensive bottle. The limited time offering, it's $299 retail. Delicious. It's a real treat.

Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. So that's something that people can try here at the distillery.

Yeah. Yeah. We've got these for sale here. We got them for sale by the pour on the bar.

Yeah. Fantastic. I would imagine that there'll be some people come in here and take a tour, have a pour at the bar, taste this one and walk out with a bottle, even a $2.99.

Yeah, it's a special bottle for sure.

It's not something that you're going to make disappear in the weekend. It's not a porch whiskey. It's something that you're going to share with friends on a limited basis. People who can appreciate it. I was going to say I appreciate it for sure.

We all know Freddie Johnson, the third generation Hall of Fame tour guide at Buffalo Trace. Freddie says, I don't bring out my good stuff for anybody, but when I bring my good stuff out, you're obligated to hear the pain I went through getting that bottle and the experience. It's one to create a memory with. For sure.

Fantastic. Well, Todd, I think this is a great spot for us to break for the first half. Sounds good. Now folks, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to sit here and continue to sip on this wonderful RD-1. What's the expression name on this again?

We didn't call it the 10 year thing. It's the 10 year is what we call it. After that, I was like, we need to give them names.

We're going to sit here and continue to sip on this 10 year Ambarana finished bourbon. And when we come back, folks, we have two more exciting bottles to try and a lot more stories from our guests. So stick around. Love it.

Hey, roadies, it's Diane Strong with Bourbon on the Banks Festival again. We have another amazing event this year, but we want you to come early because we've got a lot of events leading up to the festival. Starting on Thursday, we've got another mixology with master mixologist Heather Wibbles on the Bourbon Bell and O.H. Ingram. Leading into Friday, we have got Peggy No Stevens. She's back with another bourbon pairing and a lesson called The Stave is the Rage. It's going to be amazing. Limestone Heritage Distilling is going to be bringing in three single barrels. You're going to learn a lot. We've got the VIP coming back and this year we are celebrating women in bourbon. This year, Bourbon on the Banks Festival promises to be even better than ever. We've already got more than 70 distilleries that are going to be there. More than anything, I need to encourage you to get your tickets as soon as possible. They're selling fast. Some of them are already sold out. If you want to come this year, please get your tickets. We don't want to miss you on October 4th in Frankfort, Kentucky on the banks of the amazing Kentucky River.

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All right, welcome back listeners. We're here with Barry Brinegar and Jarrett. Gollihue. Gollihue, yeah. I keep wanting to say, see I knew some Gollihues back in school, so I apologize. Gollihue, okay, I got it. But yeah, we've been, man, two great pours. We've had the Mizunari finish before, Mizunari and French Oak, the Sister Cities, great pour, but then they, They set the bar really high on that second pour with that 10-year Ambarana finish. And thank you again for sharing that with us. Yeah, it was wonderful. Really good. Yeah. So Jared, like I said during the break, Barry's kind of an old hat. And I've known him for some time because he's up. Well, he used to be a very attending, let's see, what's what I'm trying to, used to come to a lot of the Frankfurt Bourbon Society. He drinks a lot. He's just a member of a lot of things. It's a better way to put it. So, you know, I've seen him a lot, but tell us a little bit how you got here at RD1. Okay.

Yeah, so I come from the University of Kentucky is where I was at originally. Did my undergrad there looking kind of straddling plant sciences and enology sciences. So most people don't know this. The University of Kentucky has a enology and viticulture group. and I got really interested in alcohol production and food science and plant biology and got a degree in horticulture science and then worked at the university winery for a while. I also did some other research that's more on like pesticide mode of action, why I was there and why I was Working at the University Winery, I got a phone call from my old scientific boss that I was doing that other research with. And he's now Seth DeBolt, the director of the Beam Institute. This is before the Beam Institute came about. And he goes, hey, there's this job in New Jersey. Are you interested in? I can put you in connection. And I was just like, no, I don't want to move to New Jersey. I really want to stay in Kentucky. And he had made an offer for grad school. And I said, well, Seth, can I go to grad school with you? Like, is that OK? And he's like, yeah, I'll see you in January. So I went, like, you know, I have, like, wind up to my elbows asking if I can go to grad school for a PhD. Didn't really think about it that much. And he said, OK. So I get into his office, and we're going to talk about what your grad school project is. So whenever you go and you start a PhD, The idea is that you're going to increase the field of knowledge in an area. That's the hope. He said to me, he said, well, you know all this stuff about alcohol because you just spent all this time learning how to make wine at the university doing experimental wine research. You know all this stuff about plant cell walls, which is basically wood, that you learned with me. We're going to merge them together and you're going to work on barrels. And I was like, OK, sounds good. So that's how that started. And so I did that for five years, learning how barrel variation exists, because I was like, that's the most interesting question. Before I kind of got in there and started rooting around in it, a lot of the barrel research had been done by wine people. Wine people have a very different kind of thought process. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. They're just OK with variation. Because wine, by the way it's made, you're farming something. And when you farm something, you're going to have natural variation from year to year. So they're OK with that variation. Where I was trying to answer the question, when you go into a rick house and you have a line of barrels next to each other, that you know we're on the Cooper line together, it has the same distillate in it, why does this taste different? And it's not just all the microclimates in the warehouse that has this thing. And so I spent my time and documented and came up with like a chemical mechanism for why that happens. So that was what I did my PhD on. I moved into my postdoc, which is what you do. PhD plus is the way I kind of put it. And during that time, the Beam Institute had just gotten its grant funding from Beam. It's building it. We got hit with a setback with COVID going on. And we then We go through all that, and I come on as the technical director at the Beam Institute. But I'm a postdoc. I'm teaching classes at UK. And Seth is still my boss, Dr. DeBolt. And I get a phone call one day, and he goes, hey, there's this group called RD1. They want to meet. They want to do something with us. And he said, so will you go meet with them and see what's going on? And so that's when I met Barry. I met Barry at the original Manchester Street location. And he wanted to host a UK class using their location and their distilling equipment, because this is before the Beam Institute's built. And we did a class there on gin production. So that was the students did everything from concept to completed product with the labels, recipe development, they used the still. RD1 was super generous with the time and supplies for all of that. The gin at the end tasted terrible. I have a 55-gallon drum of it that I need to dispose of still. But I still have students from that class that are just like, this was a great class. I got to learn a lot. The office staff from RD1 came in and would talk to the students about business plans and how things work and how not to shoehorn yourself with a seasonal product only. At that time, I was kind of still thinking I might be a career academic. And I was like, well, I'm going to do what good instructors do. And I'm going to keep contact information so I can send job offers and stuff out to my students. Because a good instructor should help his students get jobs. And then a couple of years later, I get an email saying, hey, we're looking for a master distiller for our new facility. And I look at it, and I go, OK, I'll do what I said. I'm going to send it to my students so they can apply. But I'm also applying. And yeah, so I got a phone call. It was like, so will you do this?

And I was just like, yeah, yeah, we'll do that.

And then since I've kind of come on, they've changed the position a lot to work with my specialties on knowledge of wood and agriculture. And then I'm pretty comfortable with the public speaking aspect because you get used to that when you're teaching classes all the time and giving industry lectures. So it's been an adventure and it's been a good one. There's a lot of challenges in the industry right now that have been interesting to face.

It's fantastic Barry, you did good.

You did good. We were so lucky. We're very fortunate. It's a wonderful relationship and we're so proud to have Jared with us.

Yeah. So are you still writing papers and doing sort of the scientific end of things at all?

There's a few papers that I have that are trickling out. OK. But I'm not writing a whole lot. A lot of times, I get them to proof.

Yeah.

And that's pretty normal. So whenever you have people doing research, it usually takes a while for those to trickle out. Sure. So yeah. just had one accepted. And I think there's one more in the works. And then that's kind of the end of it. Good for you. I still go and do some work with the students. So I get invited in as an expert on wood maturation, which I guess makes sense. And we try to host the students here so they can see what is a different style of distillery. Because every distillery you go to has got its own feel. challenges and advantages to it. Sure.

The nose on this is very inviting. Yeah, very French vanilla.

You want to tell us a little bit about this one?

So this one, I think that's the Frasier Museum's single barrel. It is French oak at barrel strength. It's 121 and change proof. What I love about French oak is that this is very well in the flavor wheel of a traditional bourbon. The nose has a sweet nose on it. I mean, at first I was thinking, is there some maple left in there? Yeah, we had the same thing.

Maple and French vanilla. Yeah.

Somebody said this the other day when they were drinking this, and I'm like, oh, they just got cross-contamination from one of our oak and maple pours. But no, it has a very distinct maple note on it. It does.

Yeah, that's actually, you can generate that maple character from how you toast the wood. Yeah, I thought for a minute you pulled a fast one on me on the nose.

I was like, is this just a really weak maple? Yeah, it's a fun one. But I haven't gone in for a taste yet. Let's taste it. Cheers.

Cheers. Oh, I did a jam and drank it already, or drank some already, sorry.

Are we supposed to be drinking this together? I've been drinking the whole time.

It's kind of, we just kind of like Mavericks do it, do it when you're ready. This is really good. This is delicious. This is good stuff.

So why Frasier? You know, we'll, we'll sell a single barrel to anybody. Even you guys, we will sell a single barrel, but the Frasier museum, you guys have been there, right? The Frasier museum is really, I think it's either the official or the unofficial start of the bourbon trail. There's so many wonderful things to see at the Frasier Museum. And so they do several events a year. And Jared, you went to Watch Hill proper.

No, no, no. I did a nice speaking event at Frasier.

Yeah. So some of the events that we do there, they highlight single barrels. And so we had sold in this single barrel to them for one of the events.

Well, fantastic. This is really, really good.

It has such great, you know, the mouth, and we're all pros here. You know, we drink a lot of bourbon. Our palates don't really understand that we're drinking a barrel-proof sample. I mean, it goes down really easy to be 121 proof. It does. Yep. You know, and I typically get more of a baking chocolate, a stone fruit note, but For whatever reason, and Jared just talked about it, some of the French oak can come across as maple. This one definitely has a maple aromas.

You can also get that with American oak every once in a while. Occasionally I'll find a single barrel and it's like, ah, it's a maple balm there.

Yeah. I'm definitely getting the maple. I'm getting a little bit of walnut. I just need to find one more thing. Vanilla. A little bit of vanilla. I think it's a maple walnut vanilla.

Yeah. There's no baking chocolate on this. Typically, our 101 proof that's always on the shelf, that has a lot of baking chocolate. A lot of people get wood tannins with French oak. It just comes across very drying and tannic. This one doesn't on my palate.

Yeah, this one has a tremendous finish on it. Yeah. Really, really good finish. Very pleasant and a little bit more than medium, maybe medium long. It's kind of nice. It really sticks with you.

Yeah. I'm getting a little bit more heat now as I'm sipping through it. So. Yeah.

Now this, this is a porch whiskey.

I could sit out on the back porch and. Actually we could sit on the deck here and sip this. Yeah, we could.

You got a nice little porch out back here. This is, this is beautiful.

Yeah, maybe in our next pour, we'll talk a little bit about the brand destination and the next 12 months and what you're going to see as far as transforming the Commons.

So this whiskey we're drinking now is typical of what a single barrel pick would look like here. What it tastes like.

Yeah, a single barrel pick for French oak. I am finding a lot more customers, retailers are asking for our French oak. And we may or may not have a few barrels out there that have been extra aged in French oak. Jared's looking at me saying, you can't disclose that.

You got to leave him alone. I want another allocated out of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I've been I've been out selling single barrels and I'm like, Jared, I got another taker for that extra age. He's like, stop it. Don't talk about it.

Well, he also will send me notes like, hey, I see this is on your R&D lists. Can you let go of that? And I'm like, maybe.

Yeah, that's a tough call, right? Because you've got this project you want to do, but you also have this customer today that's ready to write a check. So I get it. I understand. It's a tough call because you've got a business right here. You've got a beautiful, beautiful facility that you've got to pay for. Or maybe it's already paid for.

No, no, no, no. We checked the box off in being on the Bourbon Trail. We checked the box off on getting significant distribution across the US. We're still waiting to check that box off on being profitable at the brand destination. We're hopeful, but yeah, our bankers are hopeful.

Well, speaking of the destination here, it's a little tough when you're on audio-only podcasts, but let's try to give the listeners a little bit of a what can they expect when they come here?

Yeah, and Jared, you pipe in as I'm talking here because you're going to have some unique perspectives. But you can book a tour online with us. You can walk in. We're open seven days a week up until Sunday through Thursday we're open until 6pm on friday and saturday we're open until 7pm so when you book a tour you can come in and any door we have two doors you can come in upper floor door or lower floor and the tour actually starts on the lower level We have an immersive experience, kind of a self-guided tour where you can see a video of how we do our new make production. And then we have a video of Jared and I talking more Jared talking about the wood finishing aspect of what he does and his expertise here. And then we have different Stations where you can see our accolades that are in print. You can see the significant amount of metals that are core for have won over 125 major awards over the last two and a half years. You can see historical. kiosk where you know we've got some of the artifacts of the first registered distillery and then and then right there in that in that area is a very large it was 800 gallon pot still it's a beautiful pot still and and that one We're not a production distillery here. We're an R&D distillery. So we have a functional 50 gallon hybrid still that can function as a pot still or as a column still. That's really for Jared to kind of run some rifts on different mash bills. And of course, I think Jared is very passionate about gin distillation. Is that an accurate statement, Jared?

Yeah, I do like Jen quite a bit. I usually make the joke. I love Jen. My wife's name is Jen and I call her Jen. So you always make the joke.

Jen is my other bourbon. So I love Jen.

Yeah, it's one of those things that, you know, I like lots of different distilled spirits. Crafting them is really exciting. And we've got a place here to really do a lot of unique and creative things. We built a lab.

Well, anytime you need a gin buddy, somebody to sit down and drink some gin with you, I'm your man.

Yeah, I love that.

I don't want to sound creepier.

It's a little gin buddy. We have a VIP room downstairs. That's our blending room. And that's one of Jared's other playgrounds where we have a retailer, we have a bourbon club, or just an individual that wants to come in and crack their own perfect blended barrel. Jared can do that with you. We have a a wood forest downstairs. And in this wood forest, we highlight different woods that we're using for finishing and some of our barrels. And so the tour experience there can kind of take you down a wood path that really nobody else does. I don't know of anyone else that has a forest in their distillery experience.

The part that's interesting about this I want to highlight is that we have a list of lots of different woods that we've used down there, and there's these little placards all through it. And we're not just showcasing the ones we're proud of. And that's important, because whenever you're doing any type of experimentation, you end up with some terrible things. We joke about one that we're like, ah, I had this lovely roadkill note.

Not a flavor note you want.

No, it was a bottle. That was a bottle, so it wasn't a barrel that ended up being lighter fluid. So yeah, we were honest about that. Whenever you're trying to push that edge, eventually you fall off.

Yeah, sure.

And, you know, we did some events recently, or Barry did, with the Lexington Bourbon Society, was that it? Yeah. That, you know, we had some whiskey that I was like, well, I need to clean the lab out. Why don't you invite your closest 80 friends and get rid of it? So, you know, we showcase the good and the bad in that case. And we do like to have, you know, we have four experimental barrels here all the time and we like to think that we'll have something to someone's palate. But usually there's things that you've never seen before.

Yeah, we've been to a lot of distilleries. We've had a lot of great companies come on and talk about the areas that they focus on.

But I don't think I've had

a company that dives that deep into the science of the wood. And that's pretty cool, because it plays such a big part. It really does.

Yeah, nobody else has a Jared as their master distiller. Part of the tour experience, when you come upstairs, we have a room that you can thief straight from the barrel. And we currently have two of our Core Four products in barrel strength, right in the barrel, a straight bourbon, a French oak. And then we have two experimental barrels. One is a pecan wood, and I think we still have the Mizunara wood.

Yeah, and to be honest, as soon as I get an hour or two, we'll have two more experimental barrels coming in.

Nice.

So I think it's Holywood is coming up and Eucalyptus wood.

Holywood?

Yeah, and then for September, we'll probably Mizunara will be done and we'll bring in a smoked oak and maple.

Oh, the smoked oak and maple. So Jared makes his own smoked oak staves. They are super fun. It brings a whole different component to wood finishing. And I don't know if you all have seen recently in the news, but the Scotland is looking to limit the amount of peat that they're able to harvest for smoking their grains. And so there's going to be a whole new level of how are they going to impart the smoky flavor note without using the peat. And I think we've got a master distiller here that's got his PhD that's working on some really fun stuff. But that one, that is a super fun. We have a smoked oak and maple. And where our oak and maple is really sweet, It brings that savory component to it. It's a fun one.

Yeah, and I don't use Pete on that one. I am playing with Pete as a medium because I know that there are people who really like that scotchy profile. I'm still trying to learn how that one works. It's a little challenging to be nerdy for a minute. Sure. Whenever you're trying to generate smoke, what you're burning changes the smoke flavor on it quite a bit. So if you make barbecue, if you're a barbecue folks, you would know that. Pete has a different structure to it than what wood is. In this case, this is a wood smoke, is how I use it. So throughout the year, I find a barrel that's just dried up. It's done. So usually, I'm like, well, we'll use this as fuel for the smoked oak and maple going forward. And it does. It has a lot of balance in it. I always joke that the I have to let those staves air out for a period, and I just go, oh, smells like Bush's baked beans. It's ready to go.

I'm just wondering if, and I'm just thinking here, I'm just wondering if anyone has done anything with an old growth tree, an old oak, like an old bur oak or something, three, four, 500 years old. Has anybody ever been able to get a hold of one of those and see?

So I know a little bit about bur oak. There's probably a lot of bur oak and post oak in our American white oak barrels. While people wouldn't admit it, the way that the tree genetics work and the phenotypes It might be a situation where it'll look like an American white oak, but the genetics is more burry oak or something like that. So there's also a lot of misidentification that kind of happens in that space. So I have wanted to play with some bur oak because I'm really interested because bur oak, to my understanding, I'm not like a big woodworker. I'm interested in what wood tastes like. My understanding bur oak's got a lot of knots in it.

Yeah, but it's also a tree that tends to survive the centuries. It's a tree that does well and makes it to a very old age.

Yeah, and I'd be interested in getting some. I'm trying to source them right now because, I mean, Barry sees my R&D list where it's like, so this is my wish list. If you see, you know, and I talked to Cooper's and I'm like, if you could get me oak from this forest in Europe, that'd be great. And they're like, I've never heard of this. So, I'm like, okay, well, okay, you got your homework. And Baroque's selling that list too. I'd like to get some of that.

Awesome. So, I want to go back to the Hollywood. Oh, okay. Has it been blessed? I mean, what is that all about?

Okay, yeah. So, it's Paula Santos is the wood name. Okay, gotcha. Okay. Holywood is what I've seen as the translation in English. I don't, I barely speak English is the way I say it. But I think it directly translates as saint stick or something like that.

Yeah. If you stood in a duck fish head at a beer that was finished in like Palo Santo. Yeah. And shout out to my good friend, David Sandlin at the House of Commons when we went and did a barrel pick at Russell's, I'm sorry. But one of his tasting notes was Palo Santo.

Yeah, it's something that can be used as an incense, but it's also allowed to be used as a flavor and food additive in the US. So it was one that a lot of times I bring these new woods in, and there's several of them, and our tasting panel will go, oh, that's too much. And I go, OK, let's turn it back down. Let's chill this out a little bit. And it's just kind of fine tuning it. Holywood, it doesn't take much. It's a very strong tasting wood, but it adds a unique incense note that's really unique.

I think like sandalwood almost kind of like a... Yeah, but sandalwood is bad.

Sandalwood adds a real kill. That's what we found.

All right. Well, shall we move on to the last pour of the night?

Yes. All right. So this one is a Kroger, Chris's pick. Ah, Chris. This is a red oak finish. 122 proof.

OK, now red oak is typically what? What are these red oak? Furniture building? Fence posts?

It's a fire collar and it's Quercus rhubarb. Is that a Latin name? I could be wrong on that. I always look this up. You can't really use it for barrels. It lacks thyloses. So actually, one of the last papers that I did on the way out of the university was looking at those structures.

Tell them what Tyloses are because that's critical.

Sorry, I get used to speaking in jargon and I forget. What Tyloses are is that if you think about a piece of oak wood, it's like a bundle of straws is a way to think about. You have these little tubes that are going to be wicking water up and down the tree. What Tyloses do is that as the tree grows, it puts this balloon structure that prevents liquid from passing, going back and forth, because the interior section of the tree is kind of dead. And if you didn't have that, what ends up happening is you have potential for pathogen issues that would kill the tree. particularly in American white oak. It can also be a response to some different other phenomenons, drought stress, things like that. But red oak does not have them. And white oak does. And that's the reason American white oak actually is so good for barrels. And different species of white oak have varying content. So French oak, those staves are generally split instead of quarter-soled like American white oak, and you end up with a situation where they don't have quite as many Tyloses, they have some, and then Mizunari I think has even less, but red oak has the absolute least.

Like almost none.

Yeah, almost none. Although it was funny when we were doing a research project on it, we got a hold of a a very sick red oak. And it was, it had way more than we expected. And I was just like, oh.

Oh, this has a great nose. It does. Wonderful nose. Yes it is. Yes. Wow. Actually all four of these whiskeys have had a really, really good nose, very inviting nose to it, but this one is extra special.

It's going to sound weird. I get like a carrot cake thing.

Yeah, I'm trying to put my finger on it, Todd. And I want to, it's got some kind of creamy. So I would say it's the icing.

The vanilla cream icing kind of?

Yeah, yeah.

Is that what icing goes on carrot cake? It's cheesecake. Vanilla cream.

It is on typically the cream cheese type of icing.

Some kind of like citrusy thing.

I'm getting a citrus note.

Yeah. Like a burnt orange.

Oh yeah.

Cause it's like a really expressed.

Oh, that's really nice.

That's really nice.

Ready to dig in.

Yeah. We have several of these bottles and I told our general manager, I'm like, you're going to hold one of those bottles back for me. I've got to have one of these at home. So good.

Again, what's the name of this particular expression and how do you describe it?

This is a Kentucky straight bourbon finished in red oak. This is a pick from Kroger's. Chris, the buyer there, he typically puts his logo, Chris's pick on any of the barrels that he buys. I have a few of his Russell's picks, yeah.

This does something really wonderful in the back of the palate. This is lovely.

Wow.

Really good.

Yeah, it marries nicely with that mash bill. Has a lot of flavor, crescendo on the end. Spearmint? I can see that. Spearman at the end? I can see a little.

Yeah, it finishes with this minty thing going on. Yeah.

Not quite like, when I have Aspen, I'm sure you guys have maybe tried some Aspen finish. I didn't like it. Like 291.

Yeah. Yeah.

But sometimes it can come off like a very barbecue-y, smoked meats kind of thing. But towards the end, I get just that little bit of fresh spearmint on the end of that.

Yeah, I can get that.

Yeah, I've also gotten those smoky barbecue notes from Chickapin.

Chickapin, OK.

Whenever I've messed with it, yeah.

Have you guys played around with Spanish oak?

I've started to see a few of those. So Spanish oak is the same species as French oak. It is just grown in Spain and it's the same with English oak, Irish oak. It's all the same species. It's all European oak.

Western European oak.

Yeah. And then, you know, if you go far enough into like central Europe, there's Hungarian oak is when it switches over to something different.

This is delicious. This is really good. So nice. So did we talk about the price point of the single barrel? I can't remember.

These single barrels were some of our first ones and our single barrel prices is $10 north of what's on the shelf. So if our core four wood finishes are 69 on the shelf, these will come in at 79 on the shelf.

Okay. And then this one.

Yeah, same, same, same. Got it.

So the Frazier in this are, they're, they're different, but so, but the price is the same.

I should mention that the red oak is not available. I mean, it's sold out, and probably the Fraser Museum sold out too. We have a few of those bottles that we put out on our bar here so people can kind of taste some of the fun wood finishes that we've done. But we also do have some of these for sale, retail at our shop here.

Yeah, because what happens is that we'll have a situation where we can't ship in complete cases. And then the extra bottles come here and we'll sell it. So if you come and look, you'll find all sorts of oddities. Always in lots of six.

Yeah. Yeah. And I love that because just the other day I was looking and I saw one of the new bottles, the smoked oak and maple. Oh yeah, that did sneak up there. And one of the dunkle beer finishes that was there.

It was a shame there was no blackberry wine. finish around. We had a Blackberry wine barrel and it just made this beautiful one. So good. It was so good. But yeah, Longhorn Liquor got all those bottles. It came out in a perfect six.

You know, I don't maybe spilled some just so it wouldn't. That way you have like five and a half left over.

Well, four absolutely wonderful pours. Every each one of them distinct in its own right and delicious. And I've enjoyed every one of them. So great job, guys. Thank you.

Thank you.

Why don't we give you guys a second to let our listeners know where they can find you on the internet, on social media, your address. Sure. Do you want to drive in?

Yeah.

Jared, you want to go first and I'll... Oh, well, everything I do is through RD1 Spirits. I don't have a personal social media or do anything quite like that.

So you're not you're not dancing on TikTok or anything?

No, no, that's not really my speed. I'm kind of I always joke. I'm like some weird whiskey monk. I come down here, blend stuff and do things and then go home. Weird whiskey.

Hey, there's this tag though. Weird whiskey monk. You just named it. All right. Tick tock. It's coming to you.

You better get it before somebody brings the holy wood.

The monk bringing the holy wood. So, yeah, I mean, we're here at the Turner Commons in Lexington. You know, we'd love to see more people. And, you know, occasionally you'll see me coming through, but we've spent a lot of time making sure our tasting room hosts are educated. And, you know, I helped with that. So it's not uncommon for if somebody gets a real doozy of a question for them to knock on my

So if somebody is like trying to search for you guys on the internet, are they putting in RD the number one or RDONE or what's the best way for them to?

Yeah. Yeah. So our logo is RDONE. But online, our URL is RD, the number one, spirits.com. I think you just type in RD1, whether you spell it out or not, it's going to pull us up. But unfortunately, we're at a location that's new. So if you guys are pretty savvy and you understand Google and all of those things, you have to index yourself. So until there's enough searches and optimization that allow the visitor to hit RD1spirit.com Lexington, Kentucky, it takes you through a weird route. But that will eventually settle itself. But we're here on Main Street in Lexington, Kentucky. We're at the Commons Lex on Turner Commons Way. So it's right outside of downtown Lexington, Kentucky. So you can find us on the internet, the number one, RD1spirits.com. We're on Facebook and Instagram. You can find us there, RD1spirits.com. You can find me, Barry Brinegar, on Facebook, Instagram. Actually, Jared is on one form of social media. It's LinkedIn. That's it. Yeah, I like LinkedIn because you get to tell your story a little bit differently, and you get to tell it to a different audience. On Facebook and Instagram, pretty much you're going to catch a lot of people and a lot of wide types of people, but by and large, Instagram is for business people. People that are trying to, of course, I get sold all the time when people try to connect with me on LinkedIn. I actually quit accepting any friend requests now on LinkedIn just because it comes after that, a pitch, a sales pitch. I want to buy, I don't want to be sold to.

So if they pull into the parking lot of what they think is RD1 and there's a Godfather's pizza, it's the other RD1, right?

That's right. Love Goodfellas pizza. Goodfellas? Yeah. I'm sorry. Did I say Godfather's?

I think you did. Yeah. Goodfellas. Love those guys. He's got a really long beard. Macaulay's usually got a really cool hat. So there's another difference. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, but anyway, we're super excited to be here. I think that you're going to see a transformation of the area that we're located here, the Commons. Within the next 12 months, we're going to have, we already have, we talked about Pickleball Kingdom. We're going to have 20 Airbnbs with retail shops right across the road. We're going to have green space. We're going to have Three restaurants, really nice restaurants, still waiting to hear who's going to come out here, but we're going to have some big players out here. We're going to have an indoor, outdoor, 2,000 person capacity amphitheater. So we'll have acts that will come and perform here that go to Rupp Arena. A lot of those museum musicians like to have smaller venues, more intimate venues. And the outdoor stage is going to overlook our patio outside. So this place is going to scream the entertainment district within the next 12 months.

Yeah, you said when you come here, you can enter in through the lower level through the front door, or you can enter in through the upper level in the back door. I suggest the back door. That's where the cocktail bar is.

Yes. Might as well be your first stop, right? You may as well get a cocktail right when you get here. That's right.

Yeah, I think it's really cool that you guys are here. It's kind of extended the corridor. There's Whiskey Row in Louisville. There's obviously the distilleries in Frankfurt and Versailles and Lawrenceburg. But you guys, Barrel House, Dark Arts, Pepper, it's kind of extend that corridor. And I mean, you know, sometimes you can't get a tour somewhere. This is, this is definitely a place to like keep in mind. It's a beautiful place.

And I appreciate that. Well, thanks again for coming on the show gentlemen. We had a wonderful time. Thank you for sharing your whiskey with us. It's always nice to sit down and have a, have a pour with friends. So thank you again for inviting us.

You're welcome. Always a pleasure. Thank you for having us.

All right. Well, you can find the Bourbon Road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, threads, all those things. Sometimes it seems like a little bit too much, but it's always fun. Every single week, Todd and I get together. We do an episode. Sometimes, you know, we're on the road. We're at RD1, sitting down with two good friends, having some bores. Sometimes it's just Todd and I going through some samples. We'll have musicians on and authors and comedians and... Chocolatiers. Chocolatiers, believe it or not. It's always fun. We're always drinking whiskey. The best way for you not to miss an episode is scroll to the top of that app you're on, hit that subscribe button. That way you get that notification that Jim and Todd have dropped another one. And then we can join you in your day with your headset on, whether you're cutting grass or driving to that next sales call, whatever it is that you do with that headset on, we'd like to be part of your day. But until the next time, we'll see you down to the Bourbon Road.

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