462. Smoked Bourbon, White Wine Rye, and a Trip Abroad

Oh friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon. And I'm your host, Todd Ritter.

We've got a great show for you today. So grab your favorite pour and join us.

Hey roadies, it's Diane Strong with Bourbon on the Banks Festival. We've got another amazing event coming your way this year. Be sure to join us at the half and I'll tell you a little bit more about the event taking place October 4th, 2025.

Todd and I are proud to have Smokies Lifestyle Cigars as the sponsor of this episode and as the official cigar of the Bourbon Road podcast. Our hosts and listeners alike enjoy the ultimate experience of premium cigars. Smoky's Lifestyle Cigars are where flavor and craftsmanship meet. Find out more during the halftime break and at smokyslifestylecigar.com. The Surgeon General warns that cigar smoking can cause lung cancer and heart disease and is not a safe alternative to cigarettes.

Hello, listeners. Welcome back to another episode of The Bourbon Road. This is Todd, and my good friend and co-host is back from his worldly travels. Welcome back, Jim.

It's good to be back. It's good to be drinking bourbon again. I actually had a vacation away from bourbon as well as work. So zero bourbon. Well, not zero, but Well, yeah, zero, because the only thing I had was Jack Daniels while I was over there. One day, I just needed a Jack.

I'm assuming that's just the classic... That's all you could get.

I mean, that was it. It was mostly beer and wine, Belgian beer and good wine. They can't go wrong with Belgian beer.

But we've also got another guest. Who's with us, Jim?

All right. Amzie Winning, longtime participant on the Bourbon Road. I don't know how many episodes you've been on now, Amzie, but we're just not going to count anymore, because you're an old hat at this. Yeah.

Welcome back. Great to be back, as always. Yeah, I think I've run out of fingers, and I don't want to have to take my shoes off to count on my toes. But I've been here a few times.

It's also becoming kind of like our Alec Baldwin. He's been on, sorry, now live a lot. So I guess Amzie's our Alec Baldwin.

Well, it's definitely good to be back. I mean, the bourbon does taste a lot better when you take a break from it. There's no doubt about it. And I really enjoyed it. We did get to go to Amsterdam and Brussels. We were actually in Brussels for the World Belgian Beer Festival. Oh, my. The Grand Place was just filled with beer. It was unreal. Then we went to Germany and drank some more good beer and then to Paris and that was mostly wine and good food.

But anyway, it was a fun trip. The funny thing is you'll see a lot of Budweiser, actually in a lot of those places now. I was really surprised when I went over to... England and you'd see Budweiser and you go to France and there's Budweiser, but in Heineken, Heineken's big, Amstel, Stella, Stella Artois is huge.

But I would say no to the Budweiser, I would think. I wouldn't pick it, I would say.

Could be the good one, though.

There's too many great beers over there. That's true. And then I learned something about Heineken beer that I didn't know. And did you guys know that there's a difference? Between the red star Heineken and what is it the sort of a white star on the normal can? I don't know There's whatever the US can of Heineken or bottle of Heineken you buy has a different color star on it than the one over there though There's a red star and that's supposed to be a All the stuff, you know. I didn't know that. I didn't either. Anyway, good to be back. Great to be back. I did travel with Randy, the first co-host of the Bourbon Road podcast. He and I and our wives went over together. Oh, that's awesome. Lots of fun. We did enjoy ourselves, no doubt.

Constant going here and there.

We did backpacking and bed and breakfast and trains. No easy traveling for us. We carried everything we owned with us and we walked about five to eight miles a day. That's really cool. It was really good. We had a good time.

Got to burn off all that European fear somehow. I still managed to gain weight.

Even with all that. Good to be back. I hate that we missed an episode a couple weeks back. It just fell in the crack. We didn't get it out in time. We apologize to the listeners, but Todd promises we're going to maybe do a bonus. Make up for it. We'll make up for it somehow.

All right. What do we have today, Todd? Today, a little backstory here. Sometimes the stories reach out to us through their PR company. So this PR company hit us up, and they send us the samples. And we always kind of preview them just to make sure, because not everything that's sent to us is great. But it seems like with the craft getting a little older, we've not had many misses in a long time. It mostly is good. I know. But this company was called Oak Lord Distilling Company. And we literally had a night set to record. We had the link and the stream yard link and all that stuff, the way we set these things up. And I guess it was, what, maybe an hour or two before we were supposed to get on there, maybe a little earlier before that. They canceled for some reason. And well, for whatever reason, the PR company has never gotten back to me. And no one from Oak Lord has gotten back to me. And well, I just kind of wanted to feature them.

Well, it's good that the whiskey is making it to the show because I've kind of been looking forward to trying this. Yeah.

So a little background behind them, they are located in Matthews, North Carolina, which is just outside of Charlotte. It's two neighbors and friends. They were actually just recently, if you want to hear a little more about their backstory, you can go to our friend Drew Hanish's Whiskey Lore podcast. And he was able to record with them. But they were neighbors and would meet up at like bourbon chairs and things like this. And they just kind of. really became really good buddies and decided to start this company. What they do is they source someplace in North Carolina, which I didn't catch where. I'm sure there's an NDA or some sort. They also source from Kentucky. We've got three of their products to feature today. The first one we're going to start with is a four-grain bourbon whiskey. It's a unique blend of wheat, rye, corn, and barley aged for four to six years. It's their flagship spirit and describe as having a bold and savory character. So a four grade. Yeah.

Yay. I bet I can guess who they're getting it from.

I mean, say the list has got to be kind of small.

Yeah. I mean, Southern distilling is right there, right? Right up the road, I guess. Right up the road. They do a lot of contract work, so.

So what are you guys getting on the nose?

Well, I wore a new beard balm today, so wonderful notes of vanilla, leather, tobacco. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if it's the bourbon or my beard balm.

Now this retails for $69.99. It's a very fresh nose, very light, a little florality going on there. Yeah.

It's got like a sweet cream, but also a little bit of a heavier oak note to it.

And all these three products from Oak Lark will be 92 proof too. And I'm not seeing anything like where they've got like a higher proof version of anything or anything like that yet.

I almost get like a very light, like a light spice note to a little clove almost maybe, but it's pretty, pretty light.

There's not really much in the way of fruit on this. It seems to me like it's more in the spice cabinet.

But the oak's there, definitely.

I'm just wondering if oak lore means that they're really going after the oak influencer.

Yeah. And I think just from listening to Drew's show, oak is what imparts so much character to the Bourbons and Rye. So I think that's kind of where their name oak lore came from. Did you mention age? It says like a blend of like four to six.

Yeah. I'm wondering if that is a little bit like a... Maybe like a light spice cake kind of thing. Um, but yeah, I'm getting that sweet, that sweet cream, like no honey, no, uh, maybe a little tea, but no, uh, no fruit. I'm going to try it. Cheers. Cheers.

A little bit of a bite to it. It does. And it is kind of savory. Yeah.

It's kind of holding true to the, to the nose on it.

I think it didn't depart a little bit of, um, like all spice on the finish. Sweet.

It is sweet and spicy.

That second sip delivers even more spice, I think.

So what was the price point on this bottle?

$69.99. Okay. Like I said, sourced from somewhere in North Carolina and then blended in with some Kentucky juice of some sort, which like I said, I didn't do a super deep dive, but I mean, there's only a few places like I think maybe Southern, Bardstown, maybe Green River. I mean, those are the...

Those are the ones that seem to be predominant these days right now. Yeah. If I had to put money on it, I'd say Southern, but who else is in North Carolina?

You know, I was just thinking this might be the first North Carolina distillery products I've ever had. Uh, Virginia.

Is that Virginia? Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's somebody and there's somebody else in North Carolina. I thought, Oh, it's tough to get old.

Is it high wire, but there's, is that right? South Carolina? Charleston. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Cause I was, I actually got that confused with the brewery, which is in Asheville. Yeah. That's two different highs and wires. Yeah. But yeah, this is a solid little pour. I think. It's good. I mean, I'll let you know it's there.

A teaberry gum. Teaberry gum. Oh, there you go.

That's what I get. This is why we bring AMSE. He brings up the old candies too.

Yeah. You know, that's what we have to do is something where we have all the like, you know, a tasting where let people try whorehound, candy, some tea berry, some marzipan, because people say it, but nobody has probably tried it for the most part.

It's Fred's jam. Necco, bubble yum. What was the one I brought up recently? peanut, the elephant peanuts, the circus peanuts, the marshmallow ones. Yeah. Yeah.

I can't remember what they're called. I love those by the way. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Orange and- It's polarizing, but I also love candy corn.

Do they blow up in the microwave too?

I would imagine they would.

I don't know. Well, I have to say, I would not have guessed this. If I was drinking this blind, I would not have guessed it as a four grain.

No? Be interested to know what the blend of that is, like how much weeded bourbon is in there. Because I kind of get the feeling it's probably, they're purchasing a weeded bourbon and then from maybe the Kentucky source. That definitely could be Bardstown maybe.

Yeah, it's like the rye just kind of, I think the wheat gets lost maybe.

So, did you get a match bill on any of the four oak lorries? You didn't? Okay.

So, those two neighbors and friends that started this company are Matt Simpkins and Tom Bogan. And yeah, the oak lore is a nod to oak staves of the barrels, which are essential to the aging process. And according to the founders, each have a unique story to tell. So they're adding staves to the barrels then? See, it doesn't even make it sound like that. It's more like they're just saying that the oak imparts your flavor. Obviously, temperature can change. It's a thing too, but I think they just like that oak takes that distillate and changes it in numerous ways and gives it the flavor it does.

Also, each stave could come from a different tree and it's going to impart its own unique flavors.

It says here, their philosophy is centered on the idea of community and the stories that are shared over a good drink. Cheers to that, right?

How awesome is that, two buddies starting a whiskey company? I mean, it's happened a few times.

Yeah, I was going to say, the Penelope guys, that's two good friends. You think of Watch Hill Proper, you have Pursuit, two buddies.

I'm not saving any this time. All right. I like it.

Say you've been on vacation. I've been on vacation. Make up for lost time. I have to. All right. Let's move on to the rye, you think? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. So this is a North Carolina straight rye whiskey, a small batch, grain to glass product, aged for six plus years. So no Kentucky juice added to this. Again, 92 proof and the price is still, let's say $69.99. So yeah, it's going to make me do a dive later into like, who's got, you know, six-year-old juice in North Carolina. I mean, it's got to be a decent size operation to be able to sell some barrels, you know?

Yeah.

That's why I'm leaning Southern.

You know, this is, I'm nosing this and there's a good corn component in this, I think. I think so. I feel like it.

I have been fooled before. I'm getting a little bit of that like candied orange almost. But there's a nice smooth menthol-y mint thing going on too.

Almost a little piney. Pine, yeah, like that. Note that I got. But I do get the citrus now that you say that.

I'm still picking up just a teeny little bit of youthful note in it too.

Yeah.

Could be that crafty. Yep.

Crafty North Carolina. All right. Let's cheers. Yep. Cheers. Cheers.

Wow. Take that back. The corn is not like over the top on this. Got an interesting texture to it.

There's some dark berry thing going on there. Yeah. That's really interesting. I mean, there's a bit of that rye spice, but like blackberry jam and like, I wonder if it's in smaller positions, like smaller barrels. There's a very intent, like that oak. Spice on this is pretty intense, and I'm sure they cut it to 92 proof to get it there.

Yeah, and I'm getting the kind of the cereal note, the kind of- A little grain. A little grain. I don't want to say a rye muffin because I'm not getting a rye muffin, but I am getting kind of a biscuit. Maybe it's got blackberry jam on it. There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah. I could go there. A little bit of blackberry jam on a beaten biscuit.

Oh, that second sip was like black tea. So, Aimsie, we're about, I guess, three or four weeks out from bourbon on the banks. Do you want to talk about what we just did last week? We made one more pick and I think we got one more to go, right?

Yeah, last week we did the single barrel pick at Whiskey Thief. Yeah, I picked a great one out there. I would say very different from the pick we did there last year. This one is, I would say it's intense. It's dark. You know, like I think you said a lot of cola type notes to it. Um, yeah, I really enjoy it. And I forgot the, uh, yeah, eight years. Um, I had to turn around and look, I've got the sample bottle back there.

I think it's eight years, 117, 118, 16, something like that.

Yeah. 118 proof. Yeah. Um, got a pretty good, uh, Barley content. What was it? 15, 15. Yeah.

It was a split decision too. It was kind of a- Yeah.

And you know, like my two favorites in that pick were completely different from each other. And I really think this one is the bourbon drinker, the bourbon connoisseur would like this one. Like I said, it's a very intense in your face bourbon. Really enjoyed it. Anybody getting like a roasted coffee?

I was going to say I was getting like a head of chocolate, but maybe there's coffee. On the finish as we're talking a little bit, yeah.

The more it's had a little more air time, kind of reminds me, like the only other thing I've ever gotten that on was the Detling we tried that one time. Very like roasty coffee vibe. That's really interesting.

That's another thing that's really good in Europe is the coffee.

Yeah, you can almost think that like this had a very, very light roasted malt component or something. It is that kind of chocolate malt type note.

I know the guy in Dettling plays around with a lot of different malts and to get that. chocolate and get coffee note, roasted, roasted notes, I guess.

This is a really interesting, a different intake of rye. This is something that you could, you could sit and enjoy for a bit. It kind of develops as you taste it.

Yeah, it's been changing ever since. Like every sip is a little different.

You know, I absolutely love rye whiskey and this is one that is pretty unique to all the other ryes I have. And this is one I would like to get a bottle, add to the collection.

So let's recap on this one before we move on. This was a rye.

Small batch, grain to glass product, aged for six plus years.

It had a little bit of citrus on the nose, but I didn't really get much of that on the palate. I think the deeper notes started to show up on it. I think it's unique. It's ever-changing. And it kind of surprises you late in the sip with a finish that kind of develops. Like you said, it's coffee. I'm just thinking chocolate.

Maybe even like dark chocolate, like coffee beans with chocolate on them. Chocolate-covered espresso beans.

There you go. There you go. Very interesting.

All right. We got one more from these guys to try. And this is part of their story series. This is a limited edition, and this one was a pork cast finish rye whiskey. rye is aged for several years and then finished in freshly dumped port wine barrels for 12 to 18 months. It doesn't say if those are from across the seas or local or anything like that. Are these young ryes except for several years? Whenever you say that, what does several mean to you? Three to four? Yeah, I would say three to four probably. I'm assuming it's a sister rye to the ones we just had. Okay.

So this is along the lines of what you might get, uh, from like angels envy, like a port finished dry. There's are a little bit, uh, what's the proof on this 92 92. Okay.

It does have kind of a familiar nose to it. Get a ton of, you know, from the port, I guess, ton of fruit on the nose. Yeah.

Yeah, 12 to 18 months is going to impart quite a bit of character from that finish. Yeah, I would think so. And the first two pours, we didn't get much in the way of fruit notes. No. So this is nice to finish up with their third expression with a little bit of fruit. The color on it's pretty decent. Yeah, it's definitely the darkest of the three. The darkest of the three for sure. Cheers.

That's like a berry pie to me.

Cheers.

So caramel there too.

Oh yeah. But that picked it up there. It's almost like a tawny.

That's nice. It is. It kind of reminds me of that, uh, Templeton, you remember the Templeton that was part port, part. Yeah.

What was that stuff called? I can't even remember now, but that was, I really liked it, even though it was a, I mean, it was, they broke every rule with that.

What did they call it? The flavored spirit or something like that.

It was really interesting too though. Yeah. It actually does remind me a little bit. You wonder when you taste something like this, well, 18 months is a long time to sit in a pork barrel, but you wonder if they emptied it all the way.

You always wonder that, right?

What are the rules there? You should dump it, but do you really need to sweat it first? No. Do you think it's a tawny pork? I don't know. It's got a little bit of that kind of meaty, savory.

A little bit of that toffee kind of note you get. The berries are still really like that bright raspberry. I swear I can taste the grape seed.

Yeah, the grape, scrappy.

You know, this is not a finish that's overdone though. This rye really stands up to it well. Yeah.

Yeah, I would say that this is a good drinker, no doubt about it.

But yeah, I kind of hated sitting on these. So I'm like, well, we'll sample them and we'll let them know we did it. And maybe we can meet them on down the road at another time or something. We'll do it.

We'll catch up with them one day or another. Because yeah, those are both, I mean, all three pretty impressive. I am definitely getting the grape skin, like the skin. Yeah. Are you getting that?

You're getting like the tannins, the drying.

Yeah. Like when you crush grapes, that skin, particularly on a darker red grape.

A little bit of like that astringency kind of like dries up your mouth.

Yeah. And see, since Jim just got back from France, now I'm picturing him like stomping on grapes like Lucille Ball.

You can tell we're old.

I just brought up Lisa Ball, but that's one of my favorite episodes from when they're stopping the Greeks.

That was funny. It is funny as hell. Yeah. We drank a lot of wine over there. A lot of wine. Tis the place for it. Tis what you do. Yeah. I don't know how many times we've said, when in Rome. When in Rome?

Yeah. Yeah. And there's something about having it over there too, because I remember when we were in Rome, I had a I used to pour wine at a liquor store here in town and do a lot of wine tasting. So I got, you know, how you get into that kind of stuff. So like a nice Barolo or Malta Pulciano or, you know. Yeah.

I was only a couple of blocks from La Masada Whiskey and I almost, almost made it there. And I was like, but I couldn't drag the rest of the crew over. We had another thing we had to be at and it was like, it was so close.

Yeah. For those that don't know, that is... Mecca. Yeah. Well, renowned, I guess, liquor store in Paris, right? In Paris, yeah. And you get a lot of single barrels from Blanton's that are highly sought after.

Yep. And a friend of mine and I, we actually did the labels for the 60th anniversary of Lama Sandoiski. So we actually did several Blanton's labels, but that was one of them we did. That's really cool. Yeah.

I forgot you did that.

Yeah. Man of many talents. Yeah, well, I was sidekick. I was tanto. I was not the masked man. Got you. What do you call it? Lone Ranger. Lone Ranger. On that one.

Wow, go back to that. Anybody have any rile up? Yeah.

A little bit, not much. Now knows it. Oh, yeah.

That's nice.

Man, it's changed again.

It's like a- Buttery, a little buttery. Yeah, a little buttery. burnt molasses, fun pours. Yeah, definitely.

Are we doing winter, winter chicken dinner tonight?

I mean, I think we could probably do our top three, like pick our top three rather than go through the whole thing, you know? Yeah. Okay. But I think we'll start at three, two, and one. Yeah.

Sounds good. So everybody has something to look forward to at the end of the show, folks. That's right. So we got three expressions. We're just finishing up now in the first half. And then the second half, you have two more. Two more. So, yeah. Folks, stick around. It's going to get crazy in the second half. Yeah. We're going to get experimental, I think. I know. Good deal. Yeah. All right. We will be right back.

Hey, roadies, it's Diane Strong with Bourbon on the Banks Festival again. We have another amazing event this year, but we want you to come early because we've got a lot of events leading up to the festival. Starting on Thursday, we've got another mixology with master mixologist Heather Wibbles on the Bourbon Bell and O.H. Ingram. Leading into Friday, we have got Peggy No Stevens. She's back with another bourbon pairing and a lesson called The Stave is the Rage. It's going to be amazing. Limestone Heritage Distilling is going to be bringing in three single barrels. You're going to learn a lot. We've got the VIP coming back and this year we are celebrating women in bourbon. This year, Bourbon on the Banks Festival promises to be even better than ever. We've already got more than 70 distilleries that are going to be there. More than anything, I need to encourage you to get your tickets as soon as possible. They're selling fast. Some of them are already sold out. If you want to come this year, please get your tickets. We don't want to miss you on October 4th in Frankfurt, Kentucky on the banks of the amazing Kentucky River.

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Yeah, so there was their four-grain bourbon, their North Carolina rye, and then their North Carolina rye finished in port cask.

Now, just a quick question. I think when you talked about the North Carolina rye, I think you said it was around six years. Yes, but then the port finish was, it said about four. Several, so yes.

Several, we figured probably three or four, maybe a little younger.

All right, so that extra time in the port barrel kind of softened it up a little bit.

Yeah, you got to think if it was three or four, that would put it like five and a half or so, maybe six. So yeah, really, really fun. And I'm one to check out, I think.

Right. But you've got an experimental, a couple of experimental pores here for us.

Yeah. A couple of exclusives from the Desiris. The first one we're going to start with is from Sagamore out of Baltimore, Maryland. This is sourced from MGP. They are distilling their own rye there and that's kind of, that's their jam. They don't, they don't have a Sagamore bourbon. It's just all rye. But this one is finished in Alborrino cask finish. So if you know anything about wine, you're probably thinking, oh, the Spanish red wine. Because I think I told Amzie what we're trying today, and that's the first thing he said. And I'm like, no, these are actually Alborrino barrels that were there in Maryland at a nearby vineyard called Bordy's, B-O-R-D-Y, vineyard. So this particular rye aged four years charred New Oak barrels and then finished for four years in the Albariño barrels. I know, I think that might be the... Longest finish I've ever.

It's pretty long. So do either of you know more about the albariño expression?

So Todd, I'm going to correct you on that. Is it not a Spanish? No. Well, I was thinking red too. It's actually a white. Oh, you're right. Yeah. I started to kind of question myself, so I looked it up quickly.

But it is typically a Spanish grape though, right? Yes. Because of the albariño. Yes. You're right.

It grew in Galicia, Northwest Spain.

I've been thinking like Garnascia.

Okay. So, so, um, will you think that, uh, four years in a white wine barrel would be a little bit easier on the rye whiskey than four years in a red? I would think so for sure.

And that might be why they're like, let's just keep letting it roll, you know? Uh, so this one's 103 proof. retails for $79, and I'm actually looking at their website now, and it's available. I guess directly from Sagamore if you're one of the states that allows that kind of thing.

Is the Sagamore Rhys, or are they typically like a typical Maryland rye mash built?

I think their own stuff is kind of what they're going for. But like I said, they also source for MGP. So it's going to have that 95.5. Got it. I know they just dropped a 10 year when I'm assuming that's probably all MGP too.

But, you know, something I wonder though is MGP does custom mash bills. No, I think Sagamore's got custom. Yeah. Could it be some kind of a traditional Maryland style mash bill maybe?

And they've also got some additional match bills and barrels available. I know they actually had a, MGP had a 51% rye as well.

Yeah, they may have a nice mix of both then. Yeah, that's true. Actually, that'd be a good question to ask Jason. They've done a couple barrel picks up there. They actually just released one this past week, I think.

Okay.

Good deal. So yeah, four years in a Alvarino barrel.

Oh, wow. That's an interesting nose.

So, uh, Alberino, that would be like, uh, uh, one of the wines made with that would be a vino Verde. Um, they tend to be pretty acidic, citrusy kind of crisp. Yeah.

Wow. Minty, cool, fresh.

Then there's like this grape must. It's like a little bit of grappa. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's really like a floral, fragrant nose. It's great. Kind of perfumey a little bit.

Yep, very nice. Wild flowers. Very interesting.

Yeah.

Wanna taste it? Yep. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Oh my. Ooh. That made us all stop and pause.

Yeah. That's not what I was expecting.

It's very concentrated and I'm getting an interesting spice note on it.

I also get like this wildflower honey thing.

That's a great shout out. Yeah. Funny enough, they're like the flavor profiles on this label and that's the very first thing they have on here is wildflower honey.

Wow. Good job.

I did not see that.

You didn't write that for her? I'm just going to quit for today. I'm not going to throw any more notes out there. You nailed one note, so you're good. Yeah.

Yeah. There's still like the oak spice. I mean, the rye spice is very, it's sitting there nicely. This is kind of savory too. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, getting lots of mouth noises here folks. Sorry about that. But you know, this, this one requires a little chewing. Yeah. It's a little,

It's not anything I've had before.

Yeah. You have to kind of take a sip and contemplate this pour for a little bit. Yeah.

There's a big like vanilla note going on. There's like, we have that rye spice and oak spices just sitting right in the middle of the tongue.

It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a combination of a lot of things.

I mean, all at once. The all spice, nutmeg, nutmeg, a little bit of anise.

There's the mint from the rye. Like, like the, but like a little bit like lavender too, though, as part of the floral component.

It's a really interesting, um,

Now I kind of want to have a bottle of that wine. It makes me want to try that wine.

It'd be a great day for it. It's pretty warm here today.

But it's funny because now that I think of like an Alberino, like I don't, I don't know that I get that. Cause I think it tends to be a very bright, acidic type wine. And, uh, this is sweet, you know? Not overly though. No, except like that honey, that honey like this.

Like it's a little drying after a minute though. Like my back of my tongue is really dry. But for those out there, the Sagamore is like one of those like nice, quiet, hidden gems. They put out some great rides and do a lot of fun finishes. They've got, like we said, the port finish. They have a port finish. They've got a sherry finish. They just released some 10 year. 10 year and they've been, yeah, kind of gone up the line. So seven, eight, nine, 10. This would be nice to have after dinner, after a big bowl of paella. Paella, nice. You can tell he came from across the pond.

finish on this is great too. Jim, it's really good. Yeah, really lingers. Yeah, there's nothing bad to say about this whiskey at all.

No, it's good.

This is good. So speaking of paella and food, you made me hungry for one thing, but so what was the best meal you had over there, Jim? Because there's something about, like, you go over to Europe.

Yeah, so I used to travel there quite a bit. So I worked in Europe. And so I spent a lot of time in Holland and Germany and Brussels. And so I didn't really venture out too much. I know what I like. I like steak frit. So I love having steak and fries. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. I had a croque-mange in France. But I really didn't want to have the onion soup and all that kind of stuff. I love their mashed potatoes in Paris. They're just amazing. They're whipped to perfection with a little bit of cheese in them and it's just so good. In Holland, in Amsterdam. Man, for me, it was breakfast. I mean, just going to the coffee shops in the morning. Not the coffee shops you're thinking of, the real coffee shops.

You do, you. Nobody's judging you.

No, I mean, they're everywhere for sure. I mean, you can have all of that you want. But we had a really good time, and the food is amazing over there. My wife said it's really a lot like our food, and I said, yeah, it really is. It's a lot like our food, because American cuisine was developed from European cuisine, so of course. Was there anything in particular that stood out? I just love the atmosphere of the street cafes. It's a different world. It's a different world. When you go to Europe, when you walk the streets in the United States, save Chicago and New York, but when you walk the streets in Europe, People are eating at 8, they're having drinks at 9, 10, and 11. The streets are full of people. It's alive. Nobody's at home watching TV. Everybody's out. Everybody's active and moving and walking. They're not driving their cars. And it's just a different world. And if you haven't experienced it, it's something you definitely should experience. And my recommendation to any listener that's pondering a trip to Europe is just immerse yourself. Immerse yourself in the local way of living and don't worry so much about seeing the Eiffel Tower and all the grand sites. The real joy of being over there is living as they do and enjoying the lifestyle they enjoy and just immerse yourself. Going and grabbing a baguette and just go somewhere to park.

You take a bottle of wine with you and you can make a day of it.

You get up in the morning and the first thing I'm thinking about is that mile walk. We had a little bakery in Amsterdam called Bake My Day. And I look forward to that every morning.

Are you sure that wasn't one of those coffee shops? It was. Baked my day.

It was across the street from one of those.

That was baked my day, right?

But yeah, it was fun. Well, this Sagamore is just fantastic. It's wonderful. And I can't say that I've ever had a bad pour from Sagamore.

They've always done things well. Yeah, that's a great pour. You know, having having some friends in the industry that have distilleries that finish some whiskies here and there, I want to be like, have you ever tried an alberino barrel? Because you should. Yeah. Yeah, Jim, I'm not going to save any of this one.

No, I've kind of got my my running total in my head already.

I kind of know where we are. All right, we got one more and this one's kind of interesting. We're ready to move on.

Yeah. This one looks like a, like a jug from the Hills of Kentucky.

Yeah. So this is a three 75. It's from holiday out of, um, Missouri. Uh, shoot. Been a holiday, huh? Yeah. Been a holiday. Weston, yeah, Weston, Missouri. That's right. So this is a part of their ancient cave collection. And they've got kind of a drawing on the label. And I'm guessing they have kind of like a, what would you call that? It's like one of those- Like a cellar, a shelter.

Yeah, a cellar, like an old room cellar, right? Yeah, so built in the side of the hill, kind of cut into the wall of the hill.

So they've taken it, putting some barrels in there on occasion, which is kind of, you know, I think Makers Mark is kind of doing that with their cellar aged where it kind of goes in that cave or something like there and it sits for a little while. But this is a smoked bourbon. And while I kind of brought this, you know, we All three of us like to smoke peated scotches and things like that and like a little smoke on our bourbons occasionally. My good friend, Adam Dorman from Missouri, he's a roadie and he was kind enough to send me this bottle. So I thought it'd be fun to talk about. I don't know if it's still available there because these are only released there at the distillery. I know it's kind of They've kind of got a cult following now because of these. There's been a spiral cut stave, a wave stave, which sounds interesting, a double oak, a toasted. They have a wheat mashbill, soft red wheat mashbill that they did a double oak to that as well. But this is finished in hickory smoked American oak char, seven years and five months. Wow. Hickory smoked American oak. 100 proof.

And let's see, I'm trying to find the price. So it's not the grain, not the malt that's smoked. It's the barrel. It's the barrel. You know, Hard Truth does that. Yeah. Also.

The little bottle looks like an old fashioned whiskey jug. But you might see something like this on the shelf in the grocery store holding maple syrup. That's true. It does look like a maple syrup bottle.

It's kind of my first thought. Yeah.

We've had the bed holiday on the show before it's good stuff. So they've, they've always had really good whiskeys.

All right. So what's on this nose? Just a light smoke. It is a light smoke. Almost smells like baked, like grilled apples almost a little bit.

Yeah. There's still a fruitiness of some sort that comes through.

Like if you took an apple and just threw it on the grill for a little bit.

You know that the nose is promising because sometimes you hear a smoked whiskey and it's going to be like liquid smoke. And the nose on this doesn't indicate that at all.

So retail is $45 for a 375. So it's about 90 for a fifth. Yeah, fruits and light smoke. I'm picking something up that I can't identify. Honor proof, I don't know if I said that or not, but just in case. Yeah, holidays become one of those like they were, they've been around that. It was the old, oh shoot. I'm not Glenn Moore. That's Owensboro. Oh, it was a distillery there in Missouri. It's been there for years and they decided to open it back up.

Apple butter. Yes. Smoked apple butter. Yep. Yep. Smoked. I was trying to think. I was picking up a note and I couldn't put my finger on it.

That's a great, yes. It's like a cracker barrel. Because it's the apple, but you got a little bit of that cinnamon there too. Cracker barrel. Yep. That's what it makes sense. Cracker barrel. The old cracker barrel. The old cracker. Old label, yeah. Not the new, no, I'm kidding. Cheers. Don't want to start that debate again.

Cheers.

Cheers. Oh, that's nice. Concentrated sweetness. Yep. And the smoke is still, it's still light. Yeah. It's very light. I guess when you smoke oak staves with hickory smoke, it just doesn't take on a, it's just a light touch. Yeah. Cause I imagine it doesn't penetrate deep into the wood.

Still getting that light. sweet apple juice or apple butter.

It's maybe like your apple cobbler was cooked in a Dutch oven over a fire. It's like there's just the slightest little smokiness to it.

I bet that's one of the things that got messed with when technology came around is people used to to cook their apple pies in Dutch ovens over the fire. They would finish them with the top off, so they would toast up a little bit. I guess people, when they moved to gas ovens or whatever, you lost that. You didn't have that any longer. Great, rich sweetness in this. It's definitely dripping on the sides. Definitely kicks in the salivary glands. Yeah, a lot.

All right. Go back and nose it. And to me, even the apple is there even more now. Yep.

Smoked apple sauces, or like you said, smoked apple butter. Okay. I've got my three. I think I got my three too.

And they're not that far apart.

They're pretty close.

Amzie, you ready? Yep. All right. Jim. Oh, you want me to go first? My number three? Yeah. The one we just tasted.

Okay.

Number three?

Yeah.

the holiday ancient cave collection. Now what was the particulars on this again?

It's a hunter proof. This is their straight bourbon whiskey. And it was finished in the hickory smoked, let's say hickory smoked char wine. So it's actually a light char. So maybe that's where that subtle smoke's coming from.

I think we're going to be all over the board on these three.

I think they're all really close. I mean, to me, there's probably one standout. Can we go next, Amzie?

Are you ready?

No, I can.

I think we are kind of splitting hairs here. And it may be because the most recent one is the holiday. So it's not going to be third place for me. Um, that may have bumped it up a little bit. So I think third, I would probably do the, uh, pork finished, uh, yeah. Okay.

Very nice. My third place is going to be. I think I'm going to go with the ancient cave. I mean, it's really close. With which one? The ancient cave from holiday. Sorry. Okay. The smoked one. Okay. All right. Yeah. Good deal.

So we want to keep in the same order or do you want to swap it up? We can go to Amzie and then you go too.

Like I said, we're kind of splitting hairs here. So for me, second is probably that ancient cave. And it could be that it was the one I tasted most recently, bumped it up ever so slightly.

Okay. My second is going to be the oak lower rye.

Same for me. The oak lower rye. And the reason for that is it's like a chameleon. It just keeps changing.

And that's kind of interesting for a low proof rye. I mean, usually you'll get that with some higher proof and stuff like that, but every time I've gone back to the nose and I still have a little bit left, I get something a little different. Every time I sip, I get a little something different. And it's, yeah, a chameleon is a great word.

Yeah.

And you know, the port finish was also very, very good. I really liked that a lot.

But this one had no help from outside finishing. It was just the rye.

And I was like, wow.

Just a very interesting rye. Yeah, just a very interesting rye.

All right. That leaves me going first, I believe, right? Yeah. My first place is going to be the Sagamore. That's special. It's kind of cool. Again, that's one of those I think you can sit with for a while and maybe get some different things going on with it. But yeah, even though I call it the Albariño red and it's a white, well, it's an interesting finish for sure.

Yeah, so the Sagamore is also my first pick. And I'm going to go out and buy a bottle of Albariño wine just so I can

Figure out why that turned out the way it did. That turned out the way it did.

It just might just be the fact that it sat in there for four years and it took on all kinds of great stuff.

The Sagamore Albrinio finish first. I agree it's special. You know, and another thing could be that it was a, maybe that vineyard and whatever they do with Albrinio.

I was going to say, I've never heard of Bordy. Of course, I don't know if I've had much from wines from Maryland. I don't really, you know, don't think of, and a little bit about the barrels they might be using too.

Who knows what barrels are using? Are they using, are they, are they first use French Oak? Are they, you know, what are they? Really, really a good lineup tonight.

Yeah, kind of fun. Like I said, I just wanted to shine the light on Eau Claire. I don't know. Maybe they'll be peeved if we did this without them. I don't know. But I just kept waiting to hear back because I even responded.

We have a schedule to keep too.

That's right.

But we did give them a fair shake. We gave them the whole half of the first show and one of their whiskies, actually two of their whiskies made it into the final three.

And worth a look, I think.

Yeah, I think so too. The rye is just interesting for being something around six years. And that port finish, it's got some deep, rich flavor, no doubt.

And I do appreciate a finish that has done well. And I do think that one has done well. The unfinished dry would have been a very close fourth for me.

I'm doing what I always do, Todd. I'm putting them all together. I see that. I didn't have much left because I was starving for whiskey. All right. The combo knows here. Combo knows. All right. It's confusing. Five different pours. Yeah. It rarely works. It rarely works.

I think it's probably only going to work when you do, say, a logic Craig Barrel proof comparison, or kind of the same thing. Because when I used to do the infinity bottles, I would I wouldn't just throw anything and everything in it. I'd try to be very selective. I'm like, yeah, that'll work in that.

That might not work in that, you know? How's your infinity bottle doing, by the way?

Oh, I don't have one now. I don't have time for that. What about you, Andy? I just finish them now.

So I don't know. It's been several months ago now. happened to look over in the cabinet, saw mine, pulled it out. Just tasted phenomenal. And it was one of those late nights. I'd probably sampled too many. And then I kind of went in mad scientist mode and added a whole bunch of stuff to it. And letting those meld for a while.

I need to go back and try it again. They need to do that. They really do. They need to spend time together. They call it marrying, right?

Well, actually, what I do have is, and you tried it, and my friend Jeff Wack, when we did that show with the Four Roses comparison, the limited edition comparison, I recreated my original winning blend for Blendageddon. Yep. So I have, I bet I have a fifth and a half of that blend. There you go. Yeah, it's three different Nelodgic Crag Barrelproofs and Dusty of Heaven Hill. We're going to have to blend some again at some point.

Just have a blend tonight where we put some together and just have fun. Yeah. We could do it. It's fun. It's fun.

Mad scientist.

That's right. So earlier in the show, you mentioned that we were three weeks out from Bourbon's on the banks. But actually, I think by the time the show airs, I think we'll have a little over a week left before the show.

Yeah, I'm excited. Looking forward to seeing the roadies coming to town. I'm actually going to probably do some sort of fun post just to see who's coming, and then maybe just kind of have a special drawing for them. And when they get here, I'll have a Frankfurt gift package, if you will. Oh, there you go.

They have to show up at the tent at a certain time. They have to shove the tent, yeah. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Yeah, definitely. If you have not gotten your tickets to Birmingham on the banks yet, we know there's very few left, and there are the Twilight tickets only. It's still a worthwhile thing. Whether or not the Twilights are sold out at this point, we're not sure. But one thing we do know is that Frankfurt is still fully accessible on that weekend. Whether you have tickets to the event or not, you can still really enjoy yourself in Frankfurt at all the sideline events that happen on the weekend. So it's still a good time to come to Frankfurt, hang out and have a good time, go to Buffalo Trace, see if you can get something.

Come Thursday night to, uh, whiskey thief.

If you haven't made it to that, that is a great event. Um, Walter's ouch. Uh, they're at whiskey thief. He always gets, uh, you know, a nice musical act lined up. Um, you know, have some bourbon and rye thieves straight from the barrels. That's always a good time at whiskey.

We haven't heard who's playing yet though. I mean, I don't know. Last year was the pretty goods.

Yeah, he dropped the farm schedule, but I don't think it included that. They have music out there every weekend, but I don't think it included that day.

Well, they usually do have somebody good. They're always burning a barrel or something out there in the fire pit, so it's a lot of fun. All right, folks. Well, it's been another great show. We do appreciate you hanging out with us tonight. You can find the Bourbon Road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, threads, all those things. Todd and I get together every week and we do an episode. Sometimes it's with friends like Amzie, sometimes it's with industry people. We're always having a good time. We're always drinking whiskey and hopefully We're enlightening you just a little bit on the things that you might want to try from your local liquor store. So always check us out. The best way not to miss an episode is to scroll to the top of that app you're on, hit that subscribe button. That way you will get a bell notification every week when we release an episode. You don't have to miss any. That way we can be part of your day. Whatever it is you do with your headset on, whether it be cutting the grass or driving to a sales call or traveling to see friends, whatever it is, we'd love to have you plug us in and be a part of our day and let us be a part of your day. But until the next time, we'll see you down the Bourbon Road.

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