483. Craft Innovation & Contract Kings: Inside Lofted Spirits

Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon. And I'm your host, Todd Ritter.

We've got a great show for you today. So grab your favorite four and join us.

Hello there, this is Drew Hanisch of Whiskey Lore and I'm so happy that the Bourbon Road guys are going to let me promote a little bit about my new book coming out called Experiencing American Whiskey. It is a travel guide to whiskey distilleries in the entire United States. Lots of details in this book to help the traveler along the way and I'll tell you more about it at the break.

All right, listeners, welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road podcast. Todd and I are once again happy to have a guest today. We've got a great show ahead for you. We've got four great whiskeys, a lot of good conversation. Todd, who do we have with us?

We've got Pete Marino from Lofted Spirits. Now, some of you out there are scratching your head. What's Lofted Spirits? Well, that's kind of why we got Pete on here, because you're going to know Lofted Spirits based on what he says. And so Pete, welcome to the show.

Thanks, guys. It's great to be on here. I appreciate the time. And I'm looking forward to telling your listeners who Loft and Spirits is. I'm sure they're familiar with our two brands. But last year, we made the decision to create a parent company over Bardstown Bourbon Company and Green River Spirits. And the parent company over the top is now called Loft and Spirits. So we did that for several reasons, one of which was just to show the world that we actually own both of these brands. neither Bardstown or Green River was subservient to the other. They were, you know, they were the same in terms of two great companies owned by the same great parent company. So we're just clarifying that parent company a little bit.

Awesome. Well, one of the things we like to do first is get into that first pour and we've got the bottle and bond bourbon and our glass right now. So you want to tell us a little bit about that Pete?

Yeah, Bottle and Bond is one of the main core four products in our Origin series. It is obviously a hundred proof, as you guys know well with Bottle and Bond. It retails for $49.99. And the mash bill is $60.2012. And it's a six-year-old bourbon like all of our Origin series are. And it's a very smooth, decadent, beautiful pour. And it's getting a lot of great receptivity in the marketplace.

Well, fantastic. I'm really looking forward to this. I, I, I have had a quick taste of it when it first came in, but, uh, I tried not to spend too much time with it because I really wanted to spend time enjoying it on the show with you. So I appreciate that.

Cheers.

Cheers. All right. Cheers. Six year bottle and bond $49.68, 2012.

If you are familiar with our lineup, um, this would be the black label.

Great nose, traditional bourbon. Yep. Nice baking spices. It has a nice color to it. Sort of a medium Amber, uh, nice legs on the glass.

No, not diving fully into the label change, but I've noticed the origin series is gone from the label. Correct.

Correct. Yep. And the new, uh, in the new visual identification that we're, we just rolled out recently, won't hit the market for another couple of weeks, but yes, the origin series is gone.

Now, is there a story behind that change?

Yeah. I mean, we, you want to get into it? We can get into it now if you'd like. Sure.

We're just going to taste the whiskey. We'll talk about it a little bit, but yeah, go for it.

So. one of the things we get a lot of great feedback on on our on our on our bottle shape on our labels and you know they're beautiful but As we're starting to expand across the country and we need to start in order to scale our brands, we need to appeal to the less enthusiastic whiskey drinker. The bourbon community is made up of incredibly knowledgeable, passionate fans who know how to seek out our brands. Those guys, like yourselves, are awesome. We love the bourbon community with all of our hearts. However, as we're starting to scale across the country and you start to get into more of the lighter whiskey drinkers, our product can come across as fairly recessive on the shelf, either on a back bar in an on-premise location or in an off-premise liquor store. It can be kind of tough to see. It doesn't jump out at you. So we tried to Rather than do a wholesale revolution of our packaging, we wanted to do an evolution that did a couple things. Number one, paid homage to our current products because it's the same exact bottle shape and design. So we wanted to keep that the same, but we did want to make sure that our branding stuck out a little bit more, that it popped in the shelf. We had to improve our product clarity, which is why um that origin series is going away because an intuitive bar call is not i will take the bardstown bourbon company origin series bottle and bond black label so we try to shorten that up a little bit make sure it had a little bit more of an intuitive bar call and then we also try to think about colors a little bit differently so our rye is still green it's a different shade of green our bottle and bond is still black our Kentucky straight is still white, but we went with a pretty interesting, you know, some people call it Tiffany blue for our high wheat from kind of the cream color. And that was all designed to kind of, again, make the product stand out a little bit more. We've put a lot of thought and care into the labeling, not only the structure of the label, but the actual materials. It's a very high quality tactile label. It's got a de-boss topographical map of Bardstown on it. The crown and the cork has got a little bit more weight to it, so it's got a little bit more of a premium feel to it. So that's kind of what we were thinking. We wanted to make sure that we were giving homage to what's been working so well for us in terms of the bottle shape and design, but really wanted to make sure that we popped off a little bit the shelf a little bit without, again, going into a wholesale revolution on packaging. It's more of a kind of a thoughtful evolution.

Yeah, the label is more simplistic and it does have a pop to it. Yeah, for sure.

The old typeface really.

Yeah.

I mean, that first thing you see is that Baldwin bond. Boom. And then you're like, okay, whose is that? And then you go up and there's Bardstown.

Yeah, you know, the current label structure, if you see in sometimes like in Costco's, for example, the way they cut the boxes off, the label is actually below the cardboard. So you can't even tell in some in some retail outlets what our products are. So the two part label allows, at least in those environments, you'll be able to see Bardstown Bourbon Company.

Right.

So we try to be thoughtful.

Well, this is a, this is a great traditional bourbon. This has a solid punch to the palate. It has a nice round, broad flavor. The oak is ever present. Six years is a great number for a bottle and bond. You're not stopping at the four, you're moving on up to the six. That's great. It's kind of a good place to sit. $49 is a good price point.

Yeah. All of our current origin series, again, speaking about the past, those are all six year products.

Now, Pete, it's my understanding you have a very interesting background. You came from the beer side of things, right? You want to tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, sure. Yeah. I was in the beer world for, oh gosh, 25 years or so, mostly around the legacy Miller Brewing Company and Coors Brewing Company organizations, which combined are now the same company under Molson Coors. And so I worked in and around the beer business for a long time. I led the craft beer business for Molson Coors for a number of years. I went around the country visiting with a lot of craft brewers. We acquired five of them. And then the last role I had, I was in charge of the Emerging Growth Division. So we were trying to figure out ways to expand the company's portfolio beyond beer. So we had a cannabis beverage business up in Canada where it was federally legal. We started a non-ELK division. So we had an energy drink with Dwayne Johnson called Zoa. that we started. And we also created a whiskey company. So we created the Coors Whiskey Company. And that's how I kind of discovered Bardstown. We came to Bardstown to blend and create our whiskies. And so I came in as a customer. So it was a great way to get introduced to the company through our Custom Spirits Division and kind of seeing the customer experience or the customer journey, if you will, for somebody trying to create a new So we commercialized two brands under the Coors whiskey company umbrella. One of them, um, was called, uh, five trail. The other one is called Barman and Bardstown is the home of both of those brands. And then, uh, shortly after I left, the company bought the blue run distillery, um, which is another, you know, set of products that are, that called the Bardstown distillery home.

Fantastic. Yeah. We, uh, we've had those products on the show and we certainly, um, we've had a lot of them. It was a joy to have the Five Trail brand on our show when it released. That was fun.

You know, one of the things that I thought was really interesting for me coming in from the beer business into the whiskey business when I did almost three years ago, the craft beer business was not nearly as welcoming as the whiskey business is. And what I mean by that is if you've ever been to a craft brewery, someone puts a triple hopped IPA in front of you and says, hey, Todd, Jim, try this great product our brewmaster just came up with. I think you're going to love it. And you're going to take a sip and you might really love it. It might hit your palate perfectly, but it might not. And if it doesn't, This is a generalization, obviously, but the craft beer community made you feel like you weren't cool enough to like the products if you didn't outwardly express joy for them. And the thing that I loved about the whiskey business is I remember the first time I met with Steve Nalley. And here I am sitting across the table of a bourbon hall of famer, guys forgotten more about whiskey than I'll ever know, and just a great guy with a great track record of you know, tremendous success in the space. And he said, find a way that you like whiskey and welcome to the club. I don't care if you put Mountain Dew, Kool-Aid, Coca Cola, ice, water, whatever. That was really, I thought, this whole welcoming aspect of whiskey that I think is going to bode really well for our category for a long, long time because it was very inclusive, very welcoming. There was not a lot of judgment made about how you wanted to drink your whiskey. It was find a way you like it and come on in.

Yeah, exactly. Don't, you know, just drink it however you like it, but just drink bourbon, you know, just make sure you make sure you're drinking bourbon. Yeah.

Yeah. It was this, it was a great, um, you know, rising tide lifts all boats mentality that I think still is, is, is fostered in this, in this community that, that we call the bourbon business, which is great.

Now, were you yourself into bourbon when you're working at Coors or?

Yeah, I liked it, which is part of the reason why we wanted to get into that category, because there are a number of us, David Coors and myself, were the guys who were the shepherds of that project. And we both enjoyed bourbon. And when you're in the beer business, And you go to beer events, you kind of get sick of drinking beer after a while and you want, you want a bourbon. And now it's funny. Now sometimes you're getting the bourbon business, you're drinking bourbon all day and you just want a beer.

I hear that. Yeah, I get it. I understand completely. Yeah. It was a pleasure to have David on the show.

Yeah. David's a great guy. Good friend of mine.

This is a, this is a great whiskey. Yeah. It's just solid. Yeah. You open the dictionary to bourbon and this, there's a picture of, uh, of this right there next to it. This, uh, this is a definitive bottle and bond whiskey, very rounded. It's got a nice finish to it and a little bit of hug too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You get a little bit of that Kentucky hug in there.

So David kind of explain why you guys went the, like, you know, you own two different distilling companies, but you're kind of keeping them, I guess, separate, but equal, if you will.

Yeah, I mean, they're two very unique different places. So you've got Owensboro, Green River, the 10th oldest distillery in Kentucky, and it's everything that is authentic and tradition and just amazing heritage that just is cranking out some incredible juice. Then you got Bardstown, which is 2016. It's coming up on 10 years old this year. It is innovative. It's glass versus the clay rick houses that you got in Owensboro. This is wood and glass and just very modern and innovative. And so not only are the facilities very different, In terms of when you step on either campus, you know, you're only in that location. You're not going to ever confuse Green River for Bardstown and vice versa. But they also the brands and the way we're the way we're communicating the brands I think is is in line with what the character. characteristics of those distilleries are. So in Bardstown, we have this thirst for innovation and creativity. And you see that in some of the collaborations we've done. You see that in some of the distillery reserve products we came out with last year. Dan Callaway and Nick Smith and Steve Nalley, they're constantly kind of looking at ways to create different unique flavors. And so our line that we use in marketing for Bardstown is nowhere we won't go. And we talk about there's nowhere we won't go to find incredible whiskies and create kind of whiskies that are at the forefront of flavor and all of these things. And I'll give you a little sneak peek about where we're heading on Green River because this is going to come out here in the next couple of weeks. But on Green River, we're talking about kind of something that's very different from that. It's going to be the bourbon without the bullshit. And it is not all we all we do. We don't have celebrity endorsers for Green River kind of stuff. It's everything we do. We're trying to create the best whiskey we can from the 10th oldest distillery in the state of Kentucky. And so there's a lot of romance. There's a lot of sophistication. There's a lot of interesting ways you can market a lot of whiskeys in our in our category. And I'm sorry, Green River is going to be bourbon without the bullshit. It's just going to be no nonsense. Great whiskey. Full stop.

Now they are two companies, but they're under one umbrella and whether the feedback has gotten back to you or not. I could tell you from our perspective that we've seen an elevation of the green river brand. Once it joined the Bardstown team, once they came together, we could, we could tell that some of their, some of their labels have. At least we sense that they've improved, that they've gotten better. They were always good. They were always great. But I'm wondering if some of that, that technical craft knowledge from Bardstown made its way into Green River somehow, because, uh, you know, that foolproof just, in my opinion, got elevated once it got acquired.

Yeah, I mean, I think that we certainly have helped each other. There's a lot of collaboration between our distilling teams and our operations teams. And as my understanding, I wasn't there when we purchased Green River. But there was a lot of cleanup to do, but the bones were really good. It's kind of like buying an old house with the foundations being really solid. I think that's what we found when we went to Green River, an unbelievable property with a beautiful foundation that just needed a little bit more love to take their potential to greater heights. And that's what I think we've been discovering.

Yeah. The, the green room foolproof has become my favorite cigar whiskey. It just is, I love it. It's, it's just, it's, it's what I order every time I'm at the cigar bar.

Well, keep going to that cigar bar, Jim.

I'll do it. I'll do it.

All right. We're ready to move on to poor two. Let's do it.

This is the highway. This is the highway. Yeah. The Bardstown highway. I'll tell you what, this one has been an absolute screamer for us. So this is a $53.398. It, again, retails for about $49.99. It's also six years old. It's 106 proof. And this one, we were still on allocation on this product until probably the midpoint of this year. It's gotten... We'd spent on a little bit of a tear across our category overall. And so this one got off to a hotter start than we originally laid down. And that's obviously the other interesting thing about this category, as you guys well know. I mean, I remember talking to Bill Goldring one time. I knew Bill a little bit in the beer business because he owns a couple of beer distributorships in addition to owning Sazerac. And I went and spent some time with Bill. And he said, the thing about whiskey you got to remember is you'll never have the right amount. Because a six year age statement, you're laying that down seven, you're thinking about it seven years ago. So you're always going to have too much or not enough. And this was the case where when we laid it down, we didn't have enough. So this product has been on allocation. It's getting great receptivity across the country. Great consumer pull. I'm looking forward to our next bottling run here in a couple of months where we can replenish some shelves across the country. But this one is this is one of my favorites.

This is my first time bringing it to my nose. And that's wonderful. That's really nice. Yeah, some nice florality. Floral hint of cherry. Yep. Very nice. Got honey sweetness to it. Really drawing me in. I really want to take that first sip. Pete's right though. Wheat is definitely a buzzword these days. It is at 30 39%. That's a, that's a hefty wheat portion there. Yeah.

Compared to, I think I saw something that had 1% wheat and it literally said it was a part, you know, a four grain mash bill, but it only had like 1% wheat.

So I'm like, wow, that's really, really great. I love this nose. What was the price point on this again? Oh my gosh.

Crazy. So good.

Cheers, Todd.

Yeah. Cheers. It's delicious. I love this one. I mean, I'm a Frankfurt boy and like, I'd almost rather have this in Weller. I'm going to say that right out right now. Wow. Yep.

That is really good.

I agree, Todd. No disrespect to Bill who we were just talking about.

Right. Well, Todd, I, you know, it, it's, it does have a softness to it, but it also has a, a little bit of that, that wheat bite to it. Yep.

Just a little, just a little, a little white pepper rather than like, it's your black pepper just to let you know it's there. It's, I think it's, this is a great like proof point too.

You know, one of the interesting things to me, again, and thinking about expansion and trying to continue to grow the category. What I like about where wheat bourbons are coming in right now is I think they're more they're more approachable for more drinkers. So I think wheat products are a better way to get entry level bourbon drinkers into the category without, you know, freaking them out about some, you know, the real the real big huggers.

Yeah. You get them to wheat, then you get them to the bourbon, then just shove them into the rye because you know, everyone has too spicy.

Yeah.

If you're going to give them a little bit of spice, it might as well be white pepper, right? Because it's a little bit lighter, but this has, uh, it says that cherry vanilla honey. Nice. Nice. Very, uh, very approachable.

Who thought to East meets West collaboration between the two or anything like that?

You know, our guys are, uh, they got a bunch of things up there, up their sleeves. So we've got, um, We are constantly trying to think about what are unique and interesting flavor combinations, collaborations. But if it can be explored, then I can tell you, Dan and the team are exploring it.

Yeah. That would be a little easier. It's in-house, right?

Mm-hmm.

I also gave one of the tour guides there a great idea. And I don't know if it's feasible, but you talked about the glass windows at Bardstown. Well, you got to have one called like sun kissed bourbon or something like that.

We do have, you know, some barrels that are in different sections of that glass warehouse that we are doing for things along those lines. Okay.

That's fun. Oh, this is so good. So Pete of the origin series, you got a fave?

You know what, for my palate, I am a wheat guy. Um, so this one would be my favorite. Um, and the green river, you know, the blue label we did on, uh, on the green river, everyday portfolio that we did bourbon. Those, those two are my favorites.

I'm loving this Todd. I'm glad you gave me the, so, so we, uh, we, we love to ship. We have to share Todd lives in Frankfurt. I'm in Simpsonville. We're about 30 minutes apart. And we typically get sent one bottle. Sometimes you guys will send us two, but, um, this time I got the high wheat bottle. So thank you, Todd. I appreciate that. So roadies, if you're coming to town, you'd like to have a pour of the highway. You're going to have to come to the bourbon road bar or go to the bar sound.

It's one of the, uh, it's the spot I go to just about, I have to travel through there sometimes. So I'll stop in, um, for lunch. quite often when I can. And around the way back from, uh, I have my office is in Bowling Green. So sometimes on the way back, I'll, you know, stop in at the gift shop.

So in the, uh, so do you guys still have the, uh, the barrel aged old fashions there?

Yeah.

Oh, that's, those are delightful. They're lovely.

Those are good. Yeah.

Now on those, do you really take like a whole barrel and then add things to it? And then that's it. You got a whole barrel of old fashioned.

Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

So Pete, how do you guys think you guys keep like, you know, you talk craft distilleries, like the artisan side of things. where you guys do a lot of contract distilling. You're doing, I mean, I've read something like 60 different match bills or something nowadays. But you're also kind of small too at the same time.

Yeah, I mean, I think we're this very interesting, unique animal in that we're sizable. I think we're the largest contract manufacturer of Kentucky whiskey in the state. But we're also very nimble and agile. So to your point, at Bardstown, we make more than 60 unique mashpills. We've got hundreds of customers across Green River and Bardstown. The contract manufacturing is very much a part of our DNA. When we started the company, when our, when founder Pete Lofton started the company, we started out as a contract manufacturer. And so the reason why all of our original project products were, we were a blender. We were taking, we were buying whiskey because we didn't have any age product and we were blending it and putting it under our label. And the origin series, which came out, you know, and a half years ago, whatever it was now, that was the first estate distilled six-year-old product we were able to get out of the property. So we've got two great brands that we are, again, we're in the process of scaling. And we also are... It's not an either or for us. It's a both and. We are a great contract manufacturer. And we are commercializing two great brands. And What that allows us to do is it allows us to not only have the scale that our customers benefit from, but I'll tell you what, the amount of branded customers that come to us and ask us for questions about how do we commercialize our brands, can you give us a perspective on marketing, We want to break into this state. What is your perspective on route to market partners for that state? You know, how do we solve this challenge or that challenge? So we do a great job of sharing information and really supporting our contract customers with stuff that we've already lived or are going through right now on our own brands.

So you're able to provide as little or as much as the client needs depending on their, their case.

Yeah. Yeah. When you're, when you become a brand partner of ours, we take that partner word very seriously. We take customer service very, very personally. And so we want to make sure that if Todd had his brand and Jim, you had your brand. We wanted to make sure we were doing everything we could to help both of you guys make your brands as successful as they can be. And so whatever information we can share and however we can help you along your journey, that's what we're going to do.

That's awesome. That's great. All right, Todd. Well, what do you say we, uh, we take a short break here. We continue sipping on these, uh, these two barge down origin series, the bottle and bond and the high wheat. And, uh, when we come back from the break, we've got two more and more about lofted spirits from Pete Marino. Sounds great. All right. Stick around folks.

We will be right back. Hello there, Drew Hanisch, Whiskey Lore, and I am excited to announce that I have a brand new book coming out called Experiencing American Whiskey. If you have checked out my travel guide to Experiencing Kentucky Bourbon, you'll know that I go deep into the details of Kentucky Bourbon. Well, imagine that I've spread this out across the entire United States now, and I'm covering a thousand distilleries, coast to coast, and even Alaska and Hawaii. I have 227 detailed profiles in there from the distilleries that I've had firsthand contact with. I give you all the details that you need to know, like when they have tours, if they do tastings, cocktails, and everything is in a state by state format so that you can roll through, find your particular state that you're traveling to, and have all that information at your fingertips. On top of that, I have a website resource where you can bookmark and actually create a wish list of the distilleries that you'd like to visit. I cover state regulations so you know how many bottles of whiskey you can walk out with from a store from a distillery and so on. So it is an exciting book. It is the biggest thing that I put together to this point. And right now it is going to be going on sale on January the 13th. It is actually available for pre-order right now at whiskylore.org slash shop. That's Whiskey Lore's travel guide to experiencing American whiskey.

All right. Listeners, welcome back to the second half of the show. We've had Pete Marino from Lofted Spirits on tonight and we've gone through the Bardstown Bourbon Company bottle and bond, a six year bottle and a bond and their six year high wheat and

They're just darn good bourbon. Yeah, really good. I enjoyed them both. And you know, at the price point of $49, you can't beat it. It's fantastic. And I'm assuming Pete, and we'll bring you back in on the second half here. Distribution on this is widespread.

Yeah. So, both for Bardstown and Green River right now, we're in 45 of 50 states. So, we are really making a concerted effort to try to expand our points of distribution. We've overhauled our route to market partnerships over the last 18 months. And so, we have a big aspiration to make sure that these products are widely available across the country.

So, I got to know, who are those holdouts?

Uh, I think it's brand, it's, uh, I think Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, um, think South Dakota and, and maybe one of the new England states. They're not big volume states. I think we'll get those closed out in relatively short order.

Roadies in that state are just like, please bring in here.

Yeah.

All right. Well, let's move on to the first pour of the second half. And I guess that's going to be the, uh, green river full proof. We did bourbon. Yeah.

Back to back wheats can go wrong.

So this one is just coming out soon. It's a brand new product for this year. I think it's only going to hit 25 states initially given the allocation that this product's under, but then it will take off from there. It's $49.99, which is a little bit higher. Then the average price point for Green River Green River is usually mainstream products are in the thirty five dollar range, but because this is a full proof product, this one is a little bit more expensive. It's a seventy twenty one nine mash bill and it's aged between five and seven years. And we're really, really excited about this. The Green River Weeded was named the world's best bourbon by the New York Spirits competition last year. And so we said to ourselves, what do you do if you win the world's best bourbon? Will you take it up to full proof? And so this one is something that we're really, really excited about. We just got back from the Wine and Spirits Wholesalers Association meetings recently, and we had a chance to engage all of our wholesalers and sample them on this product. They're very enthusiastic about it. We've seen a lot of great consumer feedback online about it, who know people who know it's coming. And so we're really, really excited about this. And this one is a proof that 109.3. 109.

I love it. It's a little less brighter than the, uh, it is. It's got a little bit more of a, a little bit darker fruit to it. Yeah. Not as floral. But more of an oak influence, maybe that's that, that concentration of the proof. I don't know.

Maybe a hair darker to just looking at it in these two glasses.

Yeah. But you know, for 109 proof, it just, it knows is really, uh, without any ethanol impact on the nose. Very nice.

So Pete, do you ever think of like the, uh, you know, you have two kids here, right? You have your Green River kid and your Bartstown kid. Bartstown's kind of like the showy extravagant, you know, I guess the, the swan, if you will, whereas, you know, Green River, you know, I've been to Owensboro. It's obviously it's got all the history and a little, a little more rough and tumble, I guess. So is that kind of the way you see them too, or?

Yeah, I would say that that's, uh, that's, that's, you know, like anybody who has multiple kids, every kid has their own unique personality. And, you know, Bardstown might like to dress a little bit snazzier than our green river child, but we love them both. And they both add a lot to the, to the family.

Some great barbecue in, uh, Owensboro. I'm ready to do this.

Absolutely. Moonlight.

Yeah. Cheers. Cheers.

Ever been to Gramps donuts?

Oh, that's another good spot. Oh, this comes across a little bit more bolder. This is, uh, this is the big brother kind of more concentrated older. but still well rounded and balanced across the palette. Nice nose. It's like those bright cherries turned a little darker, like almost like, um, cooked cherries and, Oh, this is a really good whiskey. This is really good.

It had to be good to follow up that. Like you said, it had to be good to follow up that foolproof bourbon. That's like, I mean, that is, For the price, that is probably the best deal in, in bourbon, I think the foolproof, uh, green, green river bourbon.

Yeah. The regular weeded bourbon up to 34 99.

Yeah, this is, uh, this is really delicious. You know, I'm looking at it in the, in the bottle and I got one of those pocket pints and it's, uh, so it's, it looks a little bit lighter, but when you get it in the glass, you can see it still has a good color to it. Very nice.

Yeah, we're, we're really excited about this one.

Yeah. Big thumbs up for this one. I like it a lot. This is, uh, this is more, uh, so I think that maybe the, the high wheat from Bardstown is a little more, uh, approachable for maybe a new bourbon drinker. This one's a little bit more towards your core bourbon drinkers. I think your core weeded drinkers, it's, it's still delicious. Wonderful.

Really good, but it's got a little more body and boldness to it.

So how do you, you know, we talked about you guys doing contract distilling. How do you balance like, you know, doing great contract distilling for those guys and yet also trying to grow your own brands? I mean, because I mean, you guys obviously do a lot of, I guess, legwork for your contract brewers too.

I mean, yeah, we've got an incredible operations team who is really makes all this stuff happen and make sure that all the whiskeys come out great. And if you're bottling with us, we've got an incredible state of the art bottling facility, which we're expanding this year with a smaller bottling line at scale, which would be great because a lot of our customers were asking us if we could do some of those smaller pack formats and, you know, kind of given the state of the world and the economy and all those things right now, it's no surprise that some of those smaller pack formats are growing fast. And so we wanted to make sure we had a scaled offering for our customers. But to answer your question more directly, we have our sales and marketing team. is walled off for really supporting our brands. And then they're on advisors, if you will, or consultative basis for our brand customers who have questions that we can be helpful with. So we have a lofted custom spirits contract sales team that interfaces with all of our contract customers. And so it's between our operations team and our lofted custom spirits contract sales team. That would be the interface for all of our customers in our contract distilling organization. And again, then we were, we're happy to facilitate the conversations between our sales and marketing, uh, professionals who are really kind of thinking about our own two brands on a day-to-day basis.

It takes a lot of planning and a lot of, uh, internal structure to have something so, uh, so well defined and the ability to share departments between, uh, you know, kind of between different goals like that.

Yeah, I mean, I think we're we are, you know, we're very nimble and we like to make sure that we are bringing solutions to our customers at the same time that we are, you know, one of the other things we talk about our kind of internal motto is never stand still. We want to make sure that we're continuing to drive forward. We're continuing to do our part to grow not only our own brands, but the category. And when you think about the category, we want to make sure that, again, as I mentioned earlier, all of our brand customers are being as successful as they can be. Because that whole world of people bringing great bourbon and great American whiskey to their parties and their friends is how we're going to continue to grow this great category.

So you mentioned something about how the kind of the landscape's changing a little bit, at least within the last year and a half to two years, things have changed a little bit. I think we've all sensed it a little bit, but, um, you know, how, how does, how does a Nimble company, uh, readjust themselves to deal with a changing market like this?

Well, I mean, we've been we've been trying to help some of our customers with some creative financing opportunities. So facilitating conversations with different people who are looking for financing solutions. We have been starting to step up our penetration overseas and at least in terms of selling bulk whiskey or American whiskey to people who are looking to create products over there. We have been really trying to identify ways where we can be better partners. So we created an alternating proprietorship that allows brand customers to take advantage of the, of the craft distillers tax in a compliant way. And we also have bonded storage facility that allows them to save on FET before they, before it gets shipped off to their distributors. And then the last thing I would tell you is again, I just mentioned it earlier, but we're now, We're opening up a brand new small packaging bottling line at the end of April, early May, which will allow us to, again, have another opportunity for something that is in response to customers saying that, oh, this would be great if you guys could do this. We believe the only grain to glass facility in the state of Kentucky that we can help you all the way through every part of the supply chain. And so it has been incumbent upon us to kind of create creative solutions to allow us to make sure that we are bringing all of those opportunities to bear for our customers.

Now, when you say small packaging, do you, are you talking about three 75s? Uh, you know, three 75 down to 50 mls down to fifties. Okay. So including the minis. Okay. Awesome. Wow. That is exciting. That's a big deal. That's, that's a really big deal. That's awesome.

Yep. And, you know, we did that. I mean, obviously we don't have our head in the sand about what's going on in the category. And certainly our business has been affected just like everybody else's has been. But we have an ownership group that is very supportive of what we're doing and what we're trying to do and the role we play within the in the broader category. And when we have customers coming to us, this would really solve a pain point for us. our ownership group said, we understand the strategy. And we think that's a smart investment. And so we continue to demonstrate we're investing through the downturn. This is one instance, and there's been several others as well, whether it's more rick houses, whether it's better equipment, whatever it may be. We've got the support of a great ownership team that is really helping to facilitate our role as Kentucky's largest contract manufacturer of amazing American whiskey and bourbon.

I mean, with the 375 distillery, like the Hokkaido, is that like, hey, this is, we're going to go this way with this.

So maybe we opt- No, that Hokkaido, I mean, the distillery reserve, those are in such limited runs that we can do those on our existing bottling line. This one, the new line we're putting in allows us to do it at a lot more pace and scale. Gotcha.

Excellent.

All right. Shall we move on to the fourth and final pour? So let's do it.

This is the big dog. This is discovery series number 13. So the 13th iteration of our discovery. So this remains, you know, kind of a blend of a bunch of different barrels. So this particular one ranges in age from eight to 15 year old whiskey. As the discovery series has gotten higher up in number, more of that whiskey is coming from our distillery. You know, it's starting to, it's starting to, when we first started, all of the whiskey was, acquired whiskey that we brought on the market. There's more of our whiskey in this one, but it's still a blend of other people's whiskeys as well. This one is $140, $139.99. It is double barreled in American and Hungarian oak, and it is a 110.8 proof.

110.8 Hungarian oak.

We've got to brag. Danny, like a discovery series has really taken off. Like he's just doing some magic and I'm hoping Steve has some mess. I'm sure Steve has some saying it too, but.

Yeah, look, we are blessed between Steve. Nick Smith and Dan Callaway, we've got, you know, just at Bardstown, we've got three, you know, unbelievable talents. And this particular discovery is probably my favorite of the ones that I've had. I just think it's a really unique port.

I think we compared like four of them. I think I chose 10. We did like Nine, 10, 11, 12. And I think 10, I mean, it was all, it was like, you know, neck and neck lineup. So we'll have to revisit that after 14 and 15 come out.

Yeah. Well, 14 will be out before we know it here.

Now we see a little bit of a label change with that too. Are you going to keep it intact?

Yes. We're still working on that. It will be in, it will be in line and it will be evolving. Um, we haven't quite sorted it out yet, but it will be, uh, it will be evolving as well.

Okay. And I assume the same goes for the, uh, collaborate collaborative series. Okay.

Yes.

Any teasers on the next one might be on the collaborative. Any teasers maybe?

Well, I'm going to hold that off a little bit, but we'll make sure we get it to you guys early. But we want to, you know, again, the idea for the labels is we want to create a nice billboard effect on a shelf. And so we want to make sure that the discovery and the collaborations at their price points have a little bit more of a separator and that there may be some little, you know, some other elements that we're building into that that we're still sorting through. But but it will the idea will be for the whole line up to hang together pretty nicely on a shelf.

So this is, uh, this whiskey is quite a bit darker. It's, um, so, uh, you know, the first three were phenomenal, great whiskeys, but we have leveled up our game just a little bit here. I will say no doubt. Oh, and this, this earns the money right here.

Well, look, we want to make sure that if, if we're, you know, there's some, there's some, there's some old whiskey in here for sure. Um, at $140 a bottle, it's gotta be, it's gotta be special. Yeah.

Now, do you think you guys will continue to source a few barrels? Like, okay, just to kind of keep this going and playing around with like, that's great.

Yeah, I mean, I think that I think the discovery series allows us to continue to source barrels and it allows you to kind of put in some kind of unique things that we might not be able to meet. We mean we maybe have not laid down or a different mash bill that we you know that. we might need a few more barrels of. So I think we have the flexibility and freedom within the discovery series that continue to source some barrels. But I do think as that discovery series ages, you will see more of the whiskey being distilled on our, on our properties. But, um, but, but, but certainly that door is open.

Cause I thought that nine was really fun because it had that, um, I believe it was from Virginia.

There's been some Georgia juice or Georgia. Yeah, that was it.

And, you know, you guys are, very upfront about, you know, you put the mash bills and years on there and everyone was like, where's that Georgia to sorry. And everywhere is that Georgia to sorry, but it gave it a nice, like, I mean, yeah, like just something a little different than you get, you know, from a lot of blends, man, this is delicious.

Yeah. And that gives you guys a little bit of something extra that the, uh, the big legacy brands can't do. I mean, yeah, they could, but they normally don't reach out. across distilleries to bring in barrels, to blend them. Whereas you can, you've got the freedom to do that. You have been doing that for a long time and you're able to bring in very unique and, uh, and exceptional barrels that are available. Well, like you said, Georgia or Virginia or wherever it might be and introduce them alongside your juice. So, wow. Amazing. This is really good.

Well, I'm glad you guys enjoyed them all. That makes us happy. That's what bourbon should do. It should make you happy.

Oh, you'd be surprised how many friends I have that like went by Bardstown anytime soon because I did say I stopped there and it's not always for me, but yeah. Can you check and see if they've got this and check you see if I got that?

Let's talk a little bit about the facilities. Let's talk about Bardstown. Let's talk about Green River. and the visitor experiences and what people can expect when they come. Let's dive into that just a little bit while we're sipping on this.

Yeah, I mean, we take great pride. And again, in our hospitality that we deliver and drive at both properties, we now have four places, four locations. So we have two tasting rooms in the Urban Bourbon Trail on Whiskey Row in downtown Louisville. one for Bardstown, one for Green River. And then we've got these unique distillery experiences in Owensboro and Bardstown. And again, when you take back to the founding of our business, when Pete Loft and our founder, he wanted to create the Napa Valley for the Bourbon Trail. So it was very important for him to have a restaurant at our distillery. And I believe we were You guys would know better than me, but it's been told to me that we were the first distillery with a restaurant on the Bourbon Trail. Now, that's very typical. And Pete's in the Hall of Bourbon, Hall of Fame, I think, because he had a vision that was centered around hospitality. And if you look at the expansion of bourbon tourism over the course of the past 10 years, even last year, when the doom and gloom, every time any one of us in the industry came out of bed, there was a story somewhere in the press about how bad the whiskey business was. Despite all of that doom and gloom last year, I believe bourbon tourism grew again in Kentucky. And so, the enthusiasm for the consumer from the bourbon drinker is there. Just anecdotally, I've heard a lot of stories over the course of the past three years of different people who are either planning their first trip or had their first trip and can't wait to do another one. Because the hospitality that you now can experience across the Bourbon Trail is getting to be world-class. And that's something that we've always had deeply embedded in our DNA was to deliver and drive world-class hospitality, whether it was the knowledge of the tour guide, whether it was the experiences that you could do, whether it was the food you're going to be able to eat, some of the special pours you're going to be able to taste. That whole orientation around world-class hospitality is deeply woven into our past, present, and certainly will be a part of our future.

I think over the last 10 years, maybe more, maybe 12 years, 15, you know, we've built an army of bourbon connoisseurs, bourbon lovers, bourbon enthusiasts, people who may not have associated themselves with the bourbon drinking community, but have come on board. Those people didn't necessarily go away, you know, but your average You know, your average liquor store visitors, the younger ages are not visiting as often as they used to. So there's some changes in the industry, but I think. There's this, there's army of bourbon lovers that will stick around for a very long time. And they're the ones coming to the distilleries. They're the ones looking for, uh, you know, limited releases. They're the ones buying the single barrels. They're the ones that are interested in all this, uh, this wonderful whiskey that's coming out on a regular basis. So, um, yeah, I think it's, there's still excitement in the market as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, unquestionably, Jim. And that's that's really exciting. And that's why that's one of the reasons why I remain very bullish on this category. One of the benefits of the downturn that I'm going to put in air quotes here is that you're going to have in the next couple of years, you're going to have some older whiskey on the shelf at price points that are going to be, you know, very approachable. And I think there's going to be some unbelievable... The quality of the category is going to continue to increase. And I think that there will be... Certainly there's been some pain in the category and there will be some brands, some distilleries that have gone out and will go out of business. But I think when we look back on this period of time, 20 years from now, I think we're going to see that the category will, despite the blip that we're in now, is going to continue to expand and grow because of the quality, the imagination, and the sophistication of the people who are making the whiskey and people who are being introduced to it and are coming into it with a lot of enthusiasm. I think that we are, as America's only native spirit, I think we are in a good spot right now over the course of the long term, and I remain very bullish on this category. Over the course of the rest of my life, that's for sure.

Yeah, I've got a good friend that runs tours and he just was talking. I had him on the show recently and he was talking about the KDA numbers just came out. And you're right. You know, tourism is huge here. I mean, I live in Frankfurt and, you know, Anytime I drive by Buffalo Trace, it's, it's a mob over there. And, you know, especially when you release something crazy, but I mean, I think the same goes for you guys too. Anytime I drive by there, there's always a nice crowd there. I'm going to also recommend the chicken sandwich at the restaurant. It's usually my go-to.

I do. Yeah. So it's, I mean, look, I think that that, that, that bourbon tourism and it's just a really interesting way for, for people to come to experience the category. And, you know, the trail hotel opened up outside in Bardstown last year, which is, you know, a great new facility for people who are wanting to experience the bourbon trail. And So there's a lot of supporting parts of that tourism that are being built out right now. Obviously, you've got Mint Chulip and some other tour operators that will drive you around. The Kentucky Bourbon Festival this last year was the biggest one it's ever been. I guarantee you this September, it'll be the next biggest one that's ever been. So the enthusiasm for the category is there. The community and the manufacturers are all, I think, creating some really unique pores that I think are adding to that enthusiasm. And so, um, yeah, I think, I think, I think the category, you know, what's that old Dickens line, the rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. I think that's where we are.

And I mean, you guys are getting hit double digit juice. I mean, that's, that's gotta be super exciting. I mean, you know, everyone tends to, my sweet spots kind of that eight to 12 for me. So like, and like I said, I've had some of your single barrels have just been dropped dead delicious. So I'm looking forward to some special 10, 10 year stuff for sure.

That's coming soon. That will be coming soon. You know, it's just, uh, it's, it's, it's that 10 year old juices is, uh, is coming of age shortly.

Fantastic. Well, Pete, we've had such a great time today. This has been great. Go, go through and going through four of these exceptional labels and just enjoying this whiskey with you. Thank you for sharing it with us. Thank you for sharing your time with us. Thank you for, uh, sharing your story with us. We really appreciate it.

Well, I enjoyed it a great deal. Jim and Todd, thank you guys for what you do. Um, what you guys do is, is part of the reason why this, this community and this category are so special. So appreciate you guys.

Thank you. We're blessed. All right. Well, we'd like to give you an opportunity to let people know where they can find Lofted Spirits, Green River, Marston Bourbon Company on the internet, social media, all those things. Uh, I'm sure it's easy to search out, but I'll give you an opportunity to make a shout out.

Yeah, you can find us on Instagram. Bardstown Bourbon and Green River both have their own Instagram handles. It's a great way to keep up to speed with things we got cooking on both the brand sides. You know, if you're on LinkedIn, Lofted Spirits is a great place to see what we're see what we're up to across the company. And then, you know, hopefully with if you're in Kentucky, we've got four great distillery locations, two home places in downtown Louisville are Green River Distillery in Owensboro, Bardstown Distillery in Bardstown. Um, so come check us out, enjoy the bourbon trail. And, uh, if you're not in Kentucky, hopefully you can find us at the liquor store near you.

All right. Well, thanks again, Pete. We really appreciate it.

Thank you guys. All right.

Well, you can find the bourbon road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook threads. We do all those things every single week. Todd and I will drop an episode on Wednesday. Make sure you're standing by for it. We're always having fun. We're always having a good time. Sometimes we'll have a guest on, sometimes we're just reviewing whiskeys. We're always chuckling, having a good time, drinking great whiskey, letting you know what we think you should add to your bar. So make sure you, you set your timer, set your clock, scroll to the top of that app you're on, hit that subscribe button. That way every week when we do drop an episode, you'll get that notification, let you know that Jim and Todd have dropped another one. You can put those headsets on and you can join us for a trip down the Bourbon Road. Check out our Facebook group, the Bourbon Roadies. It's a lot of great people, about 3,500 or so bourbon enthusiasts that love to drink whiskey, share stories, share pictures, share experiences, share birthdays. Just good people all the way around. Just go onto Facebook and search out the Bourbon Roadies. You'll find us there. Uh, check out our website, the bourbon road.com. We've got our swag on there. We love it. When you buy a few pieces of swag, it helps Todd and I get down the road. Our articles are on there. Our podcasts are on there. It's a great stopping place on the internet, but until the next time we will see you down the road.

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