79. A Four Whiskey Sit-Down with Steve Coomes

when you talk to the people at Heaven Hill, they have close to, I've lost count, but it's close to 70 brick houses over five or six campuses. So they've got at the bottling plant one, they have Glencoe, they have Shinley, they have Deetsville, Cox Creek and then Bernheim. So they have six places between Louisville and Bardstown that have different rick houses, different styles, different elevation, different exposure to the elements. And that's why they can pull off having one They call it HH Reg. It's their one bourbon, rye bourbon, that makes multiple different whiskeys. So if you're a fan of Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna, JTS Brown, Evan Hill, T.W. Samuels, J.W. Dant, all of those are the same whiskey, but because of all of the ways that these rick houses age their whiskies differently, you get different whiskies, profoundly different tasting whiskies.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Log Heads Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Find out more about their fine rustic furniture at logheadshomecenter.com.

Hey, this is Big Chief from the Bourbon Road and Jim's not with us today. He's having some technical difficulties with his internet. That's kind of a funny thing because it's part of his job on a normal basis. So I kind of, I kind of find that as a funny thing that he was having internet, but we both live out here in the country and to get internet for us is, is awful difficult.

But we do have a guest on.

He's been on the show before. He is Steve Coombs, the American badass journalist from Louisville, Kentucky. Steve, how are you doing, man?

Well, once I get done laughing, I'll answer that question. I'm doing well. I appreciate the props nonetheless, untrustful as they are. Journalist was correct.

So how you been, man?

We're doing well. This COVID crisis has been weird, but we're getting through. Everything's kind of working out so far. Business is picking up again. And when you write about whiskey, that stuff disappears for a little while because that's entertaining. But we're getting through. No sickness in our house. We're lucky.

So you're still writing through all this, you're still sampling whiskeys and stuff, but me and you have been chatting quite a bit and you have some big news that you joined a team down in Barstown. So what is that all about?

So I was asked by the Kentucky Bourbon Festival to produce all of its content for 2020. And why that's really exciting is the festival board has agreed to a complete overhaul of the show or the festival, I should say, because it was dated, it needed a real whiskey focus, bourbon focus, as a matter of fact. And it lacked, it had a lot of fun events, but it lacked educational events where people could really go sit down and walk We'll go through an hour session of whatever the case was and feel more learned, more experienced about American whiskey. And that's going to change drastically. The festival, I should say, is the 15th through the 18th of October. We pushed it back a month. And if all goes well and the COVID cases go down fast, we'll pull it off. So I'm excited about it. It's going to be a bourbon event like no other, that's for sure.

So before it had that, like last year when we went home, and I've been before, it kind of has that that country fare field where there's just craft booths everywhere. And some of the distiller showed up and some didn't because at the same time there was bourbon and beyond, loud art and life happening in Louisville. And that was distracting from that Barstown bourbon festival. So is that going to change?

It is. Well, first and foremost, because sadly, Louder Than Life and I guess one of the two company festivals with it, Hometown Rising and Bourbon and Beyond have all been canceled for a couple of months now because they did not believe that gathering 200,000 people together over a three-week stretch was a good idea. And I think that's right. it definitely was a little bit strained or distilleries were a little bit strained in terms of, you know, person power. Employees to be able to staff both events, you know, the Kentucky Bourbon Festival and Bourbon Beyond because It was just a lot to do. The distillery teams are amazing and they seem to be ubiquitous. And we take it for granted that they do all the things that they do for the average bourbon drinker. But they were strained at that point. And it also led them to say, all right, which investment are we going to make? Are we going to make it back in Louisville at those rock concerts and country concerts and so forth? Are we going to pour our resources into the Bourbon Festival? And the Bourbon Festival said, I think we need to convince you otherwise, and here's how we're going to do it." And so they're excited. They're really excited about what's going to go on in terms of content and education and other things that I can't tell just yet. But they're excited, to say the least. So hopefully, we'll get to woo them back to Bardstown, the Bourbon capital of the world.

So you heard it, heard it here first. It's going to happen. It's going to be different. If you're listening to this podcast, you want to make, go ahead and make your plans now to go down to barstown, um, get your tickets, get every, whatever you need together, get your trip plan, come to Kentucky in October. It'll be a lot cooler, right? Um,

Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Historically it is. Here's a couple of bits of information. Tickets go on sale August 15th, so you'll be able to see them online at KentuckyBerberFestival.com. There are also three new hotels opened up in Bardstown. that all but tripled. Overnight stays there, or hotel rooms, I should say. And just remember those dates, because they're valuable. And you can hop online and get your tickets now to events that are going to be socially distanced, so we won't have as large a crowd as we have had in the past. And events which I've done, like chasing events, for 60 people, for 70 people will be 35. So we can socially distanced safely. And so that means fewer tickets will be available. So jump on them.

Well, hopefully the Bourbon Road will get an invite to come down there and do a live podcast down there and do a live show.

I know a guy. he can arrange that.

So you know what? I forgot to tell her the listeners, this is a bourbon show and we were supposed to have, um, Lisa wicker, the president and master distiller from widow Jane on with us. Uh, she, she wasn't feeling well today. And, um, so she couldn't be on with us, but what I'm drinking today is widow Jane, the vaults it's aged 14 years. Just an awesome bourbon. I'm about, I got about a third of the bottle left right now. So that's what I'm drinking. Steve, what are you drinking?

I am drinking and you said bourbon, but I did grab, I've got two bottles. What I'm drinking right now is a mixture 10 year straight rye that just came out. It's a press sample. In case you're not familiar with the bottle, the RC blows. And it is fantastic. I think some of those, I was telling the master stiller Dan McKee and Andrea Wilson, the master of maturation that I thought some of the rye bottles, I've always loved them, but this one's been the best by far. It's so balanced and it's everything, all that mickters goodness that you expect. It's just a terrific bottle of whiskey.

So they definitely have some great whiskeys there at mickters and I'm just waiting for them to come out with a weeded bourbon.

Oh, I bet it'll happen some more.

Well, Jim Jim always gets on me because every place we go, you know, if we go to a new distillery and they don't have a weeded bourbon, I'm like, where's where's this? Where's the weeded bourbon at?

Where where's the where's the where's the wheat?

Yeah. Yeah. So I gave, I gave Victor's a hard time. I was like, so they're out there showing us the silos and stuff. And I'm, I'm like, uh, so where's, where are you guys going to put that, that wheat silo at? And the guy was like, Oh, what are you, what are you talking about? And I was like, yeah, you can have a place, a place to put the wheat silo. And, um, so everywhere we've been, the only place that I know for a fact, that's probably never going to have a wheat. And I could be wrong. I might be wrong about my history, um, is wild Turkey. I can't see them having a week.

Well, the funny thing about that is if you, you've talked to Jimmy Russell before and he'll tell you, if you talk to him about rye, he said, we used to make it one day a year, two days, if it was, you know, if we had capacity. And he said, I would never have thought, and this is three years ago in our last interview. And he said, I would have never thought we'd been making it. We would get up to one week a month. Wow. And, you know, he said, he said, my grandson, Bruce Russell, convinced me and some others here that, you know, granddad, if you don't see it, if you don't see the bottles flying off the shelf right, right now, it'll happen. And it's happening on the back of the cocktail culture. He said, I just trusted him and he was right. We've got wild turkey 101 rye now. We've got wild turkey 80 rye. We're going to get to have wild turkey rare breed rye soon. We had decades. It wasn't decades, it was master's keep, the rye that came out last year. Wild turkey is sold on it. Maybe, I say all that, Michael, to say maybe they'll try wheat at some point.

Man, there's a lot of people out there say that'd be sacrilegious for them, but I hope so. Cause I'm just, I love, I love weeded bourbons. I'm not drinking on weed or bourbon on this half of the show, but on the second half I will be.

Tell me real quickly about the vaults. I don't, I've not had the whiskey and, and why is it so special? Because you and Jim are crazy about it.

So as 99 proof, um, she says it was the oldest, oldest bourbon they had gotten their hands on at the time. That was sourced, right? It was distilled in Indiana and Tennessee.

So we do know that.

But she just has this clever way about blending stuff and making it taste just perfect. And me and Jim love this so much. Me and him were down in the, uh, parking lot of the Getz Museum down in Barstown, Kentucky. And we both have, I have these bottles and I said, Jim, I think I'm gonna take that vaults home with me. And he's like, Wyatt, I kind of want that. And I was like, no, no, I'm going to take it.

I'll give you some sample bottles, Jim.

And he's like, what if I want it? And I was like, okay, well, I was like, I'm the bigger fella here. So I'll take it.

not a bigger character, bigger size.

I did, I did tell him, I said, uh, I said, you're, you're, you like spicy or whiskey. Um, you take the 10 year cause it is spice, a lot of spice in it. This has that more, maybe that dickle sweetness to it, I think. So, I like that. Like that, especially being a weeded guy is a little bit smoother for me. 99 proof. I think that 10 year was like 110 or something. So yeah, a beautiful, just beautiful whiskey. Um, I love it. And once it's gone, I think it's gone. You know, but Lisa's doing great things at the widow Jane. They're, they're just dealing their own stuff up there now. And, and I'm excited to be, or get to taste what she puts out, you know, great, great, great lady.

Yeah, absolutely. And under heralded in this business too, too few people know about the work that she's done already, but she doesn't mind.

No, she just keeps pushing forward. Right. And she's barstown girl. She lives down there in barstown. Um, hopefully after all this COVID stuff is maybe we all get down there. And the story I hear is that her house is loaded down with whiskey.

She said, she said while on walls, on shelves, on floors and like, Hmm, let me come tidy that up for you.

Yeah. So maybe we can have us a, maybe at the barstown bourbon festival, we get her have a night on her front porch and just watch people drive by.

And for listeners who have been to Maker's Marks restaurant, oh gosh, Star Hill Provisions, that is run by her daughter, Rachel Miller, and her son-in-law, Newman Miller, who is the chef.

He's the chef out there.

Yeah, so a lot of talent from the family there.

So, so the barstown bourbon festival is going to happen. There's nothing else really going on at the time. There might not be any sports or anything going on in Louisville. Nothing's really going on Louisville. How do you think not only COVID, but the protest and now riots have affected downtown Louisville?

Oh my gosh, it's terrible. So I live here for those who may not know. And I have not been around when the protests were, I was not around, luckily I was on vacation where the protests actually went down my street, which while they went down our street, I'm not certain because it's not fancy pants place to go protest. But I mean, all the businesses... So many businesses are boarded up in the downtown area where these sometimes violent protests have happened. So nobody wants to go down there or those businesses have closed or they were closed by COVID and thought, I'm not going to open my place back up until both things become manageable. And yesterday, as a matter of fact, we had was the NFAC. Black militia was here and marched about eight blocks and had a little rally that if you've ever seen a KKK rally, imagine the opposite. There was no crosses being burned, but there was a whole lot of hatred going on. Nothing peaceful. And that's... We can't keep that quiet. It's making national headlines.

Yeah, they actually asked that they had an accidental shooting there too.

And part of their, one of their own, one of the militia. So it's like, well, you know, I'm not even a gun owner, but I know where the safety is. Do you hand one to me? So, you know, I shouldn't make light of that on what, when anybody getting hurt on any side, but, um, The city is a little ill at ease over what's going down. It's just a place that we can go any corner of the city and it's pretty safe. It has its rough areas like any city, but downtown has always been kind of sacrosanct. There was never much trouble down there. It's a weekend thing. So relative to the Kentucky bourbon festival, you know, that may drive people down there, you know, itching for a place to go. Um, if, if hopefully things won't continue through October, but, um, you don't know, I don't know the man's mindset of the protesters on that.

So, yeah, I just kind of wonder how that's going to affect like old foresters, uh, birthday bourbon release.

Yeah.

how it's gonna affect Angel's MVs, how's it affect the urban bourbon trail and how much money are they losing per day being downtown?

My sister-in-law, I don't think I'm talking out of school, she is a director of tourism, I believe, at Angel's MVs. Her title, and we were close and we talked quite a bit and she talked about why they decided to close down with COVID. And I was not aware at the time that their spirit shop right there at the distillery is their busiest bottle shop over any account they have, off-premise account anywhere in the country. Any liquor store that sells Angel's Envy is not selling nearly what they do at their spirit shop. That's profound.

Yeah.

So they decided that the best way to do business was to close it and move all those people into the production side to keep the stills going and to keep the bottles being filled. And then a couple of weeks ago, they get restrictions lifted by the governor and they're allowed to bring people back in. And boom, man, it picked right back up. Bottle sales were great. Tours were great. Limited, of course. And now I haven't talked to her since this weekend's marches and whatnot, but I wonder what they're thinking come Monday. What are they going to do? Because it's pretty close to what where all the action is. So, yeah, I would. And old Forster is even that much closer as is, you know, Peerless is on the opposite end. Evan Williams is almost dead center. All these places surely are concerned. Michter's, yeah, at 8th Street. So they're closer than Peerless.

Yeah. It, I know it has taken an effect on them and stuff. And I hate it for all those distilleries downtown. They've, you know, we've, the only place that we haven't had a interview at is at Evan Williams. We've been to Angel's Envy and Wes just is an awesome guy. And then old Forrester had us in and we sat down with Jackie and then Perilous was like one of my first interviews. And I sat down with Caleb and, got to spend some time with Corky.

He's a character, isn't he? I love him. He's funny.

And I just hate it. I hate it for all those businesses downtown that they're going through this. Not only the COVID, but it's not just the businesses. It's the people that work there and they're losing their jobs. People want to go back to work. They want to be at work. It's tough to be at home for a long time. I can't even imagine. I live on a farm and I'm stuck at home right now for the foreseeable future. But it's different for me where I'm on a farm. I got 10 acres. I can do all kinds of stuff here. I can't imagine living in an apartment or a condo and being stuck at home. It'd be real difficult.

Yeah, that's the part of the... I understand peaceful protesting, but the violence and the vandalism part, I think is so short-sighted because what the protesters may not understand is that so many of the people that are affected by that or people are probably on their side to some extent, to some part of the argument. And so now when you're tearing up businesses owned by absolutely innocent operators who may even employ people of color, African-Americans, Hispanics, whatever, And now those people are out of work. So what do you do now? And typically downtown, especially at the street level, most of those businesses are independently owned businesses. They're not always corporations. So I don't understand the motive there and why that's being done. And there's no doubt that the distillery business, you know, distillery row that we've talked about all the players there, they're definitely being affected by it. What good is that going to accomplish?

Yeah, I'm not sure. Me and Jim have kind of stayed silent on the whole matter because we don't we always say we don't do religion, we don't do politics and we don't do social issues. But we both served our nation for a reason. We served it for so we could all have the freedom of speech and to uh, rightfully protest as part of freedom of speech. But whenever you start destroying businesses and, um, I know there's a candy shop down on fourth street that they said they lost several thousands of dollars.

Um, that's terrific people that own that good hearted people. A lot, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of people of color working there. I can tell you that much.

And how, how are though, you know, if it happens again, are they going to be able to reopen again? You know, that's, that's some of that stuff is, it just breaks my heart for businesses like that, that they're going through this and, you know, we're, we're, we're thinking about you if you're listening to us out there.

So we'll try to end this on this first half on a good note.

I'll tell you what, I don't know how your bourbon is or your rye you're drinking, the mickters rye you're drinking is, but you know, if I could get Lisa to make some more of this vaults, man, I would. It's, it's that good.

Yeah. This, this, this mixture of straight rice is fantastic.

We'll go, we're going to go ahead and take a break now. Um, when we come back, I'm going to drink some TX bourbon out of, uh, Fort Worth, Texas area. And we'll get to Steve and see what, uh, what you got going on in the near future tastings and ham ham pairings with, with bourbon. So coming up, we'll be right back.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Log Heads Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Log Heads Home Center, nestled in the hills of Kentucky, is an industry leader in building handcrafted rustic furniture. Family owned and operated, they take pride in offering only the very best for their customers. The Log Heads, and that's what they like to call themselves, are skilled wood crafters who are passionate about creating rustic furniture for people who appreciate the beauty of natural wood. Owners Tommy and Gwen don't just sell the rustic lifestyle, they live it. And you can be sure that Loghead's furniture will always be handcrafted in Kentucky by artisans who embrace the simple way of life. Loghead's rustic furniture is made from northern white cedar, a sustainable wood that's naturally rotten termite resistant. Its beauty and quality will add warmth to your earthy lifestyle for generations to come. Be sure to check out everything they have to offer at LogHeadsHomeCenter.com and while you're at it, give Tommy and Gwen a shout on Facebook or Instagram at LogHeadsHomeCenter.

All right, listeners, we're back and we're here with Steve Coombs. So for my second half, uh, poor Steve, I'm drinking some TX bourbon out of Firestone and Robertson distillery, uh, distilling company in Texas. It's a 127 4.4 proof, only four years old. Um, but it is, uh, this is some dark juice right here.

So to have it that dark, are they aging these barrels in rick houses that aren't cooled at all? Are they just getting abused by that Texas heat for four years?

Most of them do it that way that they're controlled. Um, I know I went to balconies and we went up inside the second or third, I think third and fourth floors of the third old fire safe or fireproof warehouse. That's where people would store their like valuables and stuff is made out of brick and stuff. And we got up to the fourth floor. It was about 136 degrees up there. Oh my gosh.

And I thought I was going to pass out up in there.

And just if you would have lit a match inside that room, the whole place might have went up.

Just because of the alcohol vapors?

Yeah, it was amazing. I was like, there's guys in there working too. They were tightening up barrels. Um, so if people don't know, if you have a warehouse like that, you're going to have some leakage and you need to tighten barrels up. And, um, that's what those guys were doing. So I feel bad for him. I was like, Ooh, I got to get out of here.

Do you like to tell us whether you like the whiskey? How does it compare to 127 proof, four year old American? I mean, I shouldn't say American, uh, Kentucky whiskey.

So some people might think this is sacrilege, but I think it blows the doors off a four year old, um, Kentucky bourbon because the age, I almost think, and I've said this several times on the past couple of podcasts, Texas bourbon should have its own classification or Texas whiskey, I guess, because of the maturation there is just so much different than in Kentucky. It is, I would say this is like a 12 to 14 year old Kentucky bourbon.

Oh, my goodness. So does it have the complexity that you get from, you know, just the headspace and the barrel and all the chemical reactions or is it just the interaction with the oak and the color that you're getting?

I'm not positive what's going on there, but the company has definitely figured it out. TX has definitely figured it out. Balconies, Iron Root, and Garrison Brothers, and there's several others down there. You know, they got a whole Texas whiskey trail. They've tried to model it after the Kentucky Bourbon Trail. And I know they talk to each other very often. So, you know, if you're down in Texas, I'd say hit some of those distilleries. And they got three different regions there because Texas is a gigantic state. They've got like the Austin area. They've got the Dallas area.

And I think they'll correct you on the DFW.

Yeah. DFW area. That's a big, big old area, right? So this is my, this is a weeded bourbon right here.

No kidding.

Red winter wheat. Um, I, it is just delicious. Now me and Jim just reviewed, um, their standard bottling of this, which, um, most people have already heard by this, by this episode and we loved it. We couldn't say enough good stuff about it.

Cool. Glad to hear that.

Um, if, you know, people's plop, you'll say, Hey, you can't have bourbon.

That's not outside of Kentucky and nonsense.

Yeah. If you read the rules, you know, you follow the rules and that's why you're making it that it's bourbon and there are some damn good bourbon out there. Obviously a lot of people think that because look at Iron Root and they won a world's best bourbon this year and they beat out Rebel Yell tenure, which is like one of my favorite bourbons.

That was Jim Murray who awarded them that, right?

Um, it was whiskey, whiskey magazines, world whiskey awards.

Whiskey magazine.

Okay. So I, I don't know. I don't know a whole bunch about the worst. You probably know more, a lot more than we do about the awards and how they're awarded and who the judges, have you ever been a judge at one of those?

I have not been asked to do that. I'm not sure that my palate could take tasting that much and be, um, I don't know how they taste that amount of spirits and really get the job done. I mean, that's just my opinion of it. And some of the judges I know are absolutely outstanding, upstanding people. So they've been chosen and I haven't. I'll give it a shot if they ever invited me to do it. But I was a chef for a long time in restaurants and I know about palate fatigue and it can come on you pretty quickly. So how you would taste something so narrow in flavor profile and aroma profile dozens of times, I think, you know, as many as 120, they may go through in a day and discern between that. I'm not sure, but I bet their system is pretty solid. So.

Well, I don't know how they would do it. Cause I, this, this is, you know, it's 127 proof. So it's definitely got that barrel spice to it.

I think that's cool.

It's good. You know, it's, I wouldn't have picked it up if, uh, if I didn't like it. And there's a, I didn't buy this, a liquor store there. Actually, I walked into the liquor store and a guy knew who I was and said, Hey, I was like, man, I've never had this before. And I really want to try it before I'm thinking about not pulling the trigger. And he was like, well, I don't actually own this store, but he was like, I know who you are. And I was like, man, I'm all the way down here in Texas. And this guy knows who I am.

So that's pretty cool.

He was like, I'll open a bottle for you and I'll let you taste it. Gosh. I tasted it and I was like, I definitely want a bottle of that. Um, I felt pretty glad that, that, that happened to me. And I'm just, you know, Hey, like I mean, you were saying yesterday, we were talking and, um, it's a nice benefit of the job, right? Of reviewing whiskeys and talking about whiskey and being part of that bourbon culture. Um, but I'll tell you that, I've paid it forward, you know, and several of my friends have gotten samples of this and just so I could get them to experience it. One guy that he is one of those naysayers that bourbon can only come from Kentucky. And I put it in a sample bottle, gave it to him, didn't write anything on it. So they don't want you to try this. And he texted me back that night and said, that is amazing. It tastes so good. That's a good bourbon. So I saw him next, the next time he had to come down my house and, um, He's like, what was that? I was like, it's Texas bourbon, man. He's like, Oh my God.

Well, a Booker nose thing always was, if you can get them to put it in their mouths, they'll drink it and enjoy it and buy it. And that's really kind of what it's about, you know, tasting. Speaking of tasting, my bottle is this. This is a Knob Creek. It's called Caroline's Pick. It's done by Justin's House of Bourbon and my buddy Caroline Paulus picked it and it's 120 proof. Nine year, and it's absolutely delicious. Brown sugar bomb, plenty of baking spices. I think you and I've talked about it. I love private barrel picks that to me, those are the real unicorns of the whiskey world is to get that one off bottle.

If you can find a pick, if you're, you're out there and you go into a store and you don't know what we're talking about, you just started listening to the podcast. So a store or a chain, they'll send a group out or even whiskey groups like us or podcasts to go out and send some people into the Rick house. I've sat down, I taste five, six barrels. and they'll pick that barrel and then that barrel gets bottled and that's their pick. If you find one of those picks or you have a, um, opportunity to buy a pick, buy it and try it. Um, especially if it's from place like Justin's house of bourbon, somebody that knows whiskey and they're tasting it every day, that's a great place to, to go taste some bourbon.

It also is, as far as I know, and Mike, correct me if I'm wrong, the only place, there are two of them, one's in Louisville, one's in Lexington, where you can legally sell your old spirits to those guys. They can buy it and they'll resell it. I mean, so you could trade legally with those guys. at Justin's house of bourbon. Um, everybody else is doing it on the secondary market, which isn't legal. Um, but, uh, at the, at the same time, if you want to do a conscience free, they may buy what you have.

There is, there is a new store opening up in, Northern Kentucky. And I don't, I don't know the name of it, but I saw that not the ad, but one of our friends said, Hey, and I think it was maybe it was Marianne Barnes. No, I'm trying to think who, who posted that, but they are open in a vintage bottle shop up there to where you can buy and sell whiskey like that.

That's fun. I mean, there are whiskey museums, especially if you go into Justin's and you see some of these bottles that are not only haven't been around for a hundred years, some were pre-prohibition, so that's much longer. But some of those old, old crow chest set bottles and them having complete sets and the stories that they can tell about, you know, buying, you know, somebody calling them and said, well, you know, I just found in my grandfather's basement, a case of old Fitzgerald's 1957 bottle of bond, that box has never been opened. And they're like, where do you live? We will be there like Batman and Robin. So that's how they find those things. You talk about a cash intensive business, they got to have it ready to buy, and they got to be able to sell it and get their money back. Their stories are interesting.

Mark and Sherry Carter are actually building their little urban distillery right next to that, right?

Just the bottle shop. I was down there, as a matter of fact, a couple of weeks ago and got to talk to them. If you've never met the owners of old Carter distillery, they are some of the nicest people in the business. Mark and Sherry Carter, as he said, they made their money in winemaking with Carter Vineyards and their spectacular wines. Some of their wines have gotten 100 points from Wine Spectator. So that's pretty phenomenal. That's rare air. So they also were the original founding partners of Kentucky Owl. You knew that right, Mike?

Yeah. They're good friends of ours. Me and Jim have had been with them.

Yeah.

He sat down and laughed, just laughed so hard with it. Now she's a artist. She actually designed the old Carter label and she designed the Kentucky owl label. Yeah. And, um, the horse on the old Carter bottle is actually, uh, it's actually a wooden carving that she carved herself.

Oh, I thought you were going to tell me is a, an image of one of the horses she rides. She said the other day when I saw her, that they haven't, they've not gone back to California since COVID struck. So they lived in Kentucky for quite a while. And then she said, I miss my horses and my dogs.

Yeah. She's, she's always posting videos. She was supposed to video. I don't know. It was last night or today. She was cutting marks here.

But you were saying next door to the Justin's House of Bourbon in Louisville is gonna be the old Carter Bottle Shop. So you'll be able to go there and get their stuff. They'll show their wines, but I don't believe that they're gonna buy a wine and beer package permit so you won't be able to purchase them. But it will be cool, I'll guarantee it. And behind that is gonna be, or next to it or wedged in between is gonna be the Justin's Bar. So, uh, some cool things are happening despite what's going on with COVID. I mean, that these, these people with great foresight in our whiskey business on the retail end are really making fun things for us.

Yeah. I think, you know, you, you rebuild. businesses and you put new businesses in there downtown. Um, or just like they did over in Lexington with the distillery district.

Gosh, what a great spot that is.

Took the old pepper distillery and they, you know, they put all those shops and there's a great pizza place there. There's good fellas. You can get, uh, I might say this wrong. Boone and is it Boone and Crockett?

Cranking boon ice cream. Yeah, man. And they got a bourbon ice cream that's out of this world. Gained a half pound uttering those words. Good ice cream.

Uh, there's an ax though in place of that, which I do not recommend going to the distillery first and then go into the axle.

Go to a therial bourbon. I mean, I have therial brewing. It's a fantastic brewery. That's, you know, and that's a great way to finish. Like if you go to Woodford reserve, Castle and Key, um, what else is around there? Uh, Mike and four roses, aren't that far away and you can finish up in the distillery district, maybe and get another bourbon tour at bluegrass bourbon. And what is the other distillery there?

You got Bluegrass and then you got Towne Branch there in Lexington. And you could also, you could get right down the road to Three Boys. I think it's Three Boys Farm down, that's pretty close to us. But if you could hit the big, all the big group there, you get Wild Turkey, Buffalo Trace, Woodford Reserve, Castle Key, four roses, and then maybe go over their bluegrass distillers. And right next to bluegrass is actually another brewery. And then go grab some great pizza at Goodfellas. I mean, it's delicious there.

And everything overlooks Town Branch Creek, which is what Town Branch Distillery is named after. And was the creek by which Lexington was founded because it was a great water source at its time. So it's kind of a bucolic, dead industrial setting. I mean, it's one way to look at it. It's one of the great reuses of space that I've seen in Kentucky. It's fantastic. Love Lexington, too. Great town.

It is. It's, it's a little bit different than Louisville, Kentucky, but it's still, I love it. It's a great town to visit. Great music there. Um, great food. Um, even downtown, if you go to downtown Frankfurt, um, there's a little place called capital sellers. If you're, um, in some great little restaurants, downtown Frankfurt, the, you know, the Kentucky capital there. Um, delicious. You haven't been to capital sellers?

I have not.

It's just a small bottle shop and you might find a little gym in there. If you ever go inside there, great owners, great people. I almost any place in Kentucky, I think is like that though. You're always going to find somebody great. One of the questions I can ask you, cause we talk about maturation and stuff. And I've talked to this about this with other people. where wild turkeys, uh, Rick houses set up on top of a hill. They're still overlooking the Kentucky river, but they're up way above the Kentucky river. So the temperature there could be a lot higher than if you went down into Glenn Glenn's Creek or castle and key is and, and Woodford reserve where their Rick houses are, are down in a little valley and the temperature change there is almost 20 or 30 degrees. You think that plays a difference in the Rick houses and the aging of whiskey?

There's no question. There's no question. In fact, when you talk to the people at Heaven Hill, they have close to... I've lost count, but it's close to 70 rick houses over five or six campuses. So they've got at the bottling plant one, they have Glencoe, they have Shinley, they have Dietzville, Cox Creek and then Bernheim. So they have six places between Louisville and Bardstown that have different rick houses, different styles, different elevation, different exposure to the elements. And that's why they can pull off having one They call it HH Reg. It's their one bourbon, rye bourbon, that makes multiple different whiskeys. So if you're a fan of Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna, JTS Brown, Evan Hill, T.W. Samuels, J.W. Dant, all of those are the same whiskey. But because of all of the ways that these rick houses age their whiskies differently, you get different whiskies, profoundly different tasting whiskies. Oh, yeah. And those guys, they would love to have some of those high altitude brick houses near the Kentucky River, I'm sure, because they understand what happens. And I've had the good fortune of going into almost all of those campuses and seeing and feeling the differences and understanding what they're talking about. But the newest ones that are being built at Cox's Creek, which in this case is on Barstown Road versus... Cox's Creek is a long stretch of land that you can get to by Highway 245, which is off I-65. And then you can go to Barstown Road, which leads from Louisville directly to Barstown, obviously.

Yeah.

And those are where their largest, newest, 56,000 barrel rick houses are being made or built. And the master taser, though he doesn't go by that title, is a guy named Mike Sonny at Heaven Hill. And he said, the samples that we're pulling out of those new rick houses at three years, we're blowing our minds." And I said, well, what's driving that change? And he said, location, no trees, no shade, great circulation, high elevation. And these people even know now to turn these things a certain way to the prevailing winds to get good airflow, not only in the design of the music rick houses, but in just the design of nature. That's the way That's kind of a fingers crossed thing because that's the way that storms approach. So they've been known to rip some metal roofs off of the Dietzville rick houses.

You definitely can't miss those rick houses on Barshtown Road though when you're coming from Louisville.

What a great night. People say, oh, it's just a warehouse. I get all tingly. I love them.

They're monstrous. I'm sure some distilleries, we went up to Boone County and they just have a small little warehouse. I would call it, I've got neighbors with shops like that size or barns that's pulled in. And you know, they, they've got it filled up and they're doing their, they've, you know, they're doing their thing down up there. Um, but then you drive by heaven hill and you're just like, wow, that place is monstrous.

And the works, the Buffalo traces are even bigger. They're 58,000.

Now wilderness trail, um, some of our friends over there, Pat and Shane, they bought some land across from their distillery there and they're, they're definitely, they're coming on. They are going to be putting out some juice. They're shockingly.

Talk about for people who've not been to that distillery or even had their stuff. Just trust both of us, that's flat out amazing whiskey, because they're doing things that nobody else is doing in terms of fermentation. Their company, Wilderness Trail, was built out of money that came from their yeast business called Firm Solutions. And they manage and create more than 500 yeast strains for distilleries all over the world. So they have the capital to do that. And the first time I went there, Mike, that I saw the story, I don't know, five years ago, It was this little Potemkin distilleries, had a little teeny, everything is like Disneyland miniature compared to all the big distilleries. I was like, this is cute. I come back years later. I was like, oh my gosh, what has happened? Did somebody just dump helicopter running onto this place? Because now it's the gigantic, well, at least large, 22,000 barrel rick houses, the much bigger distillery, the much bigger visitor center, And at the helm of it, as you know, are the two of the some of the coolest guys in the business, you know, Pat Heist and Shane Baker. And you talk about just a great American success story and incredibly unique whiskey.

And you would never know that they say they're whiskey poor. Definitely. But you would never know those two guys are super successful. They're just two dudes, you know, wear t-shirts and blue jeans and that's on dress up day. Yeah. They'll, they'll sit down and talk with whiskey with you any day. We went over there to pick up our bottles of six year, which would, they gave us a little surprise, which were all single barrel. And now if you buy the six year off the shelf, it's not single barrel. Um, I just thought it was awesome. Pat came outside and he's go big chief. You're here, man. What's up? And me and him sat outside the front of the distillery there and talked for, I don't know, we were probably out there an hour, hour and a half where the staff, I think he has some other stuff to do, but we were talking about his new Rick houses and why they didn't go above 30,000 barrels in their new Rick houses. There was actually a reason because I think it's over 30,000 barrels. You have to have a sprinkler system.

Over 22.

This is over 22.

And so that's the design of that gear number. I don't know.

So the, and maybe it's 21,500 barrels they can put in there or something. Um, so they don't have to have sprinkler system, but he said, I watched a video of one of the fires and I want to say it was the Jim beam fire. And he said, now watch, he showed me the video. He said, now watch it. He's like, you'll see that the instant where the sprinklers come on and it was like just a little poof of steam. And he was like, then the fires went on about his business. He's like them sprinklers don't do nothing.

Um, so he was like, Oh, old Rick house though, too, to, to be fair. I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh yeah. And if you don't know what we're talking about is down there from cast on key.

Um, or that one, that old one was built in 1911.

Yeah.

That brick one, 45,000 barrels.

Yeah.

So he said the sprinkler systems probably wouldn't do anything. So I don't know. Heaven Hill might have a different thought.

Heaven Hill at their Rick houses at the Cox's Creek campus have a, they have 300, I want to say it's 330,000 gallons of water at the ready. that if there's a fire, immediately two diesel generators turn on, and it's called a dry system. Brick houses traditionally have trouble in the wintertime moving water around because they're not temperature controlled, and the pipes would freeze. That's one of the reasons why they don't They didn't do it historically because it was just expensive and you would have frozen pipes. Well, Heaven Hills solution to it is to have a dry system. So you'll see the sprinklers when you're in the rick houses, but there's no water in the system. If there's a fire, those engines kick on, those generators kick on and start pushing 330,000 gallons through those, yeah, those rickhous. And now that they've had such success with that campus, they're having to build, I believe, additional horsepower and generators to push more water through. I think they're gonna have 12 or 14 houses there when it's done. So what does that add up to? It's 200,000 barrels, is my math off? Much more than that, almost 400,000 barrels.

Well, how many, you said 50,000 barrels aware.

Okay. Not in the not. So we're 12 times 56,000. Wow. I was way off 672,000 barrels.

That's a lot of barrels of whiskey.

Not a math guy. So, uh, but that's their one solution. Now the, the, Other way to manage that is at Buffalo Trace, their monster warehouses, the new ones are heated to at least 40 degrees or whatever Fahrenheit so that the water would not freeze. They do like the insulating value of their new rick houses because it does control some of the temperature. They can get so low that the whiskey won't interact with the wood anymore. There's a lot of thought that goes into these places where they just stick barrels for four, six, 10 years at a time.

Isn't it amazing how much thought, like you said, goes into just building a mick house for these distilleries. And they're not stopping. You know, if you go over to Barstown Bourbon Company right now and stuff is going on over there, they're putting up warehouses all over the place, which is a good thing. Money's coming into Kentucky, right?

That's right. Now we're going to get some of that money going back over, or come back from overseas. We can get past these tariffs slowing things down. Brown Foreman has taken $150 million hit every year from reduced sales of Jack Daniels and probably a little bit of old Forrester in there. Maybe some Woodford too.

You know, you... You wouldn't think that tariffs, that's a lot of, that is definitely not a money even for that company to lose every year. But you would think it was still, like I said before, tariffs. And that would have a whole lot to do with, with bourbon, but it does, I guess, overall.

It's a pawn. So it's like Mongo and Blazing Saddles, pawn in game of life. You know, it's just, it's just the sad state of affairs that somebody, you know, overseas thought, let's stick it to these guys, these whiskey makers. And I'm sure they're going, what do we have to do with Airbus? You know, Airbus aircraft and steel, you know, we're not even involved, but pawns in game of life.

I guess it is. It's a sad thing too, because you know, bourbon going around the world right now, some of the biggest countries that are drinking bourbon in Australia and Spain, Japan, South Korea, India, those countries, they're not being able to get the same stuff we're getting. Me and Jim will drink something or we'll do a live show and they're like, where'd you get that bottle at? We got it right down the street from us.

Mike, I got to go to Australia in 2004 and I brought, they're the only kind of kitschy cool thing that, I could find to take liquor-wise was Woodford Reserve had these really nice bottles and wooden cases. I thought, if they don't drink it, they can stick it on a shelf and say the nice American brought it to us. Two of the guys, there were three basic sponsors for the trip. It was a media trip. Two of the guys said, you keep it. The third guy who was an Aussie who spent 13 years in the United States working for Vulcan Ovens, he said, man, bourbon, bring it on. He's like, we can't find any of it here. Anything, you know, I think Jim Beam had a footprint there, but that was about it. And now 16 years later, bourbon is on fire in Australia. I mean, they love it because they're beer drinkers mostly down there and some scotch and they produce fantastic wines, but bourbon just wasn't there. And now it is one of the fastest growing overseas markets for the United States.

So we have a, uh, listener there and he's part of our group and me and Jim are talking about doing a pick coming up here and, uh, pick me, pick me. Well, he, he's like, how do I get that pick to Australia? How do I get it? And like, I don't know, I'm not sure how we get that pick to you, but there, it'll get there. Um, I don't think that ship, I guess that would be shipping whiskey if it went on a boat. So, yeah, that's true. So Steve, what do you, what do you got going on here in the near future? Where could people see you at if they want to get any events that are coming up?

Gosh, you know, um, just like us doing this podcast on, um, you know, on the web that the stream yard, thank God we have that technology. Um, That's what my public appearances have been limited to. And I've got a right before, no, right at the time that COVID really took off. saw a lot of things canceled in the United States. I lost, I think, three or four ham, cheese, whiskey, chocolate, whatever, and whiskey pairings in St. Louis, along with the St. Louis Bourbon Society. And when the Mikters was the sponsor of the events, and they just said, you know, we need to be cautious and we're going to pull out. And so that was a shame. And one of the organizers of the St. Louis Bremen Society is a guy named James Thomas. And he said, you know, the one thing that we learned from that was we didn't make enough tickets available for sale. We could have done much bigger events. And when this crisis backs down, that's what we'll do. But in the meantime, we're going to have a virtual tasting for about 60 people tied to the society. late in August. So it'll be online just like this. Mixtures will send the whiskey ahead of time. It's going to be divided up into sample bottles among those who purchase the tickets. And I'm going to take four different country hams and slice and make individual packets of 60 for everybody. Have those numbered and they'll know what hams are tasting. And we're going to do it online. I and Andrea Wilson and their masters still are Dan McKee. So that's as close as we're going to be able to do something broadly public. And, you know, and then the Kentucky Bourbon Festival, that's the only thing that I'm aware of right now.

So there are, there's still tickets available for that.

And what, what I was told, uh, by the society was that they are tied to their Patreon community. So anybody can be a member as it were through their Facebook page, but their Patreon community has levels of paid membership, I think by 15, $20, something like that a month. that allows them first choice on events like this. And so I don't know how widely available it would be. I believe the society is simply like 4,000 members strong, Facebook people who are members, but then the Patreon community is a fraction of that. So I don't know how many tickets would be available. If you want to join in, I'm sure they wouldn't mind if they were available.

So if you're in the St. Louis area and you want to Missouri, I guess Illinois is right there. Um, kind of Western Kentucky, if you want to see that event or do that event and, uh, there's all, you said 60, right?

That's the number right now. And I have never done a whiskey and food pairing that didn't swell in attendance. I have yet to have one that if somebody says it's going to be 60, it's 60. Usually it starts off at 60 and goes to 100. And that's a great problem to have until that day. You're doing all the prep. But so who knows, you know, it still might be an opportunity to still be opening because I understand the Bourbon Society there has members, like you said, Western Kentucky, Illinois, you know, all around. So.

Yeah, that's kind of a tri-state area, you know, the St. Louis area and stuff. And James is a good guy. He's a reservist in the US Coast Guard. James, thanks for your service, man. And they're doing great things out there in St. Louis with that Whiskey Society or Bourbon Society. It's really grown there. I like to see that across the country. I'm always amazed at all these groups that are out there. And I belong to a lot of groups and a lot of those groups let us post in their private groups on Facebook.

And our Bourbon Society here in Louisville has done a great job of doing virtual events and they're educational, but man, it's just not the same as being there with your buddies, your lady buddies and your dude buddies sipping whiskey. If you've never been to a Bourbon Society meeting of any sort, people usually show up with bottles, right, Mike? And you put them down at the table and you hope that there are things that others haven't had and you get to share and you get to drink their stuff. And it's just a great environment. And you meet so many good people all centered on simple whiskey.

Yeah. I think what, how many groups are in Louisville? You know, there's, I think the.

Bourbon women, bourbon society, uh, whiskey chicks. Um, who else is.

Bourbon brotherhood.

Bourbon brotherhood. Gosh. Bruce Corwin's group. Sorry, Bruce. Hope you're not listening. Heard me say that. He's a good dude. So that's just Louisville. And we're probably missing a couple of groups there.

Yeah, there's just Louisville Bourbon Hounds is another group. Just so many great groups. Nashville's got a great thing going on down there. Cincinnati's actually got a group now, just so many things going on and I can't wait for everything to open back up.

And if you're out there, look on Steve's website,

see when he's doing something, um, go see him in person. You're, you're, you're going to miss out if you don't, cause he's always bringing the ham, um, with him.

Cured ham and, and whiskey people is one of the great combinations, culinary combinations that too few know about. And it's fun to see the lights come on when people taste it like, I would have never, I'd never thought this. And so, well, I didn't either till about five years ago and, and now it's a thang. I get to go do it.

And if you're like, think you're just a prosciutto person, prosciutto is really just ham. We're just talking about redneck ham, right Steve?

Yeah. There's a, there's a fella, Bob Woods, one of my favorite cures at the hammery in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. And he's, he's a smart dude. So don't mistake his accent for ignorance, but he, he said, Steve, country ham ain't nothing but he'll be like prosciutto. And his hillbilly prosciutto is absolutely outstanding. It's called the 10-sciutto, as a matter of fact.

Have you been over to Barn 8 in the evening?

I have. I got to go there very early on. I want to say, I didn't know that we were concerned about COVID at that time, so it may have been early February. And what they're doing and want to do is terrific. But boy, to start a restaurant and then shut it down that fast and try to get it up going again. Can't imagine.

Do you know what kind of hams they sell there in their gift shop?

I didn't know that they sold them because we didn't get to see the gift shop experience. We, meaning I and some other media folk and some other VIP guests who are well too money for us got to go out and taste things. We got a different treatment than the normal guests would get, but the gift shop wasn't open, the bar wasn't open, it was just the kitchen part.

Well, me and Jim went over there. Our wives were actually, my wife had found it and she was like, I want to go over here and try this place out. So I, I called her, Hey, I'd like to do a video of your bar there or in your bar and talk about Barnet. And at first they were like, well, you can reach out to this PR PR person because we're not going to, I don't think we're going to let you do it. I was like, Oh man, it's not our game really. Cause I'll just pop into a place and say, I want to do a video right here, right now. Um, and I'll, I'll release it to probably 50 different groups on Facebook and then on our Instagram account. And it'll get out to like a half a million people. So when I got there, I said, hey, this is who we are. And this is our podcast. And this is our Instagram. And this is our Facebook page and our Facebook group. And these are all the groups that go to. And I was like, you guys think about it. We'll eat our meal. So next thing you know, here comes their bourbon steward. He comes in and talks to us. Their chef comes in and talks to us. the manager comes in, the owner comes in and they're like, Hey, you can do a video. Nice. So I did a video and I think about 20,000 people reacted to it, which was good for them. It gets people in the door. I think it does anyways. That's what people tell us that we did videos for.

Yeah. Seeing that, uh, one of the owners is, uh, a Brown.

Yeah, she is. Um, and I, me and Jim, Jim had the, the carp over there.

I love carp. I don't think it was silver, silver carp. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. It is the, it's so wide and flaky. great fish to eat. And I know people in their mind might think carp and it's not good tasting, but, um, we actually watched somebody cook it last night. Uh, Tim farmer, I don't know if you know who he is. Um, and we're true. We want to try to get him on the podcast. Um, but he was, he showed him catching it down at Lake Barkley and then, uh, preparing it. And then then he canned it and then made a, uh, like a little fish salad out of it.

Tim, for those of you who don't know, was injured at a motorcycle accident and lost the use of one of his arms. And for all you hunters out there, bow hunters specifically, Tim does it one armed. And with his teeth and he is dead on accurate dude.

Pulls a string back with his mouth. It's amazing. Maybe that's speaking to our age, Steve, but we'll sit down and watch that in the evening time. And I just, you know, you can learn some, some great stuff, but hopefully we can get Steve on our, uh, hopefully we can get to him on the show and, uh, talk about some of the stuff and talk about his love for bourbon. Cause I've seen him cooking, cooking with bourbon before and drinking it. So I know he's a bourbon fan.

Yeah, he's a, he's a good dude.

I had that night out there at barn eight, I had the bison. Um, and that's been a running joke now in our group, uh, cause I tried to get Jim, to stop on the side of the road because they own the next farm over and that's where they keep their bison at. I was like, Hey man, just, I'd had a lot of drinks at night. We would, we, before we went, I had a cocktail at Jim's house and then we did three bourbon reviews, sit down and record it. And then we went to the restaurant and we had several, several drinks there and I was not driving. Um, but I was feeling really good. I said, Jim, just, just pull this car over here. I'm going there and wrestle one of those buffalos down and ride it.

That's a, that's a docile animal until it's mad.

That's what I had that night was bison and it was delicious.

I like bison quite a bit. Yeah. That's their farm, the lower Lee Brown and Steve Wilson. That's, uh, I'm trying to think of that name. Hermitage is the property where Barnet is, but yeah, beautiful place.

They took a old, old stables and made it into the restaurant. And if, if you're looking for something different, to go to in Louisville or outside, right outside of Louisville, 15, 20 minute drive up the road. Nice scenic drive. Go out there to Barnet and check them out. Um, it is, it's very, very nice.

So in that bar, you walk in there, you see all the whiskey on the bar. It's just like, unlike any other bar. in that you'll see, you know, like I remember going to Ohio and just seeing clear, clear, clear, brown, brown, you know, a little bit of, a little bit of scotch over here and rum and this little pocket of American whiskey. It is brown, totally brown. It's good stuff. So I haven't gotten to sit at the bar. I need to put that on my agenda.

That's on it. Well, maybe we can get over there. We'll meet you guys.

Yeah, that's right. Well, we all have to go north to go to Goshen.

We just kind of, we don't go North. We just cut across country there. We end up over there in the back country. So, well, Steve, man, I appreciate you coming on today and sitting down, chatting with us, talking about the Barstown Bourbon Festival. Cause that's, everybody's going to be looking at that now that there's no other festivals. I'm glad you told us everything about it. I'm glad to sit down and sip some whiskey with you. It's, I had two great bottles here. I wish that Lisa could have came on with us. Where can our listeners find you on social media?

Um, so my name is, I'll just spell it as it sounds, Steve Coombs, S-T-E-V-E-C-O-O-M as in Mark E as in Edward S dot com. So that's my website, Steve Coombs on Facebook, Steve Coombs on Instagram and a word chew. It's an old handle. I need to change, but my business is called words to chew on since I write quite a bit about food. So it's word chew. That's the handle on Twitter. So keep up with me.

So you're on Instagram, Facebook, you're on, you got your own website and that's where your events are, right?

Yeah. I'll be happy to put some events on as soon as they happen. That's going on right now.

Or if somebody wants to hire you to come in and do a tasting.

I do do tastings for hire. In fact, I did one in Georgetown not long ago and it was, gosh, it was two people. I've done them as big as 150 and to do it for two, that was interesting. And it was a ball, lovely couple, but I don't usually get to converse. I usually get to do all the talking and it was so much fun and kept me on my heels and I enjoyed it.

So if you want to hire Steve for a tasting, go to his website, reach out to him.

Steve at SteveCoombs.com. That's the email.

I'm telling you, he's a phenomenal guy. I got to watch him talk over at Willardus Trail. While I wasn't part of that tasting, I sat there and watched him and still a great, great leader for a tasting. I think it's awesome.

So once again, Steve, thanks.

You can find us on social media at the bourbon road on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. Um, we actually have a private Facebook group called the bourbon roadies. We're at about at 715 people right now. Um, we have a number of that, Michael, am I not? I don't think you are, but you need to be.

Hey, I'm going to sign it up right now.

So we'll have Steve, Steve in there as a member. And, um, we have master distillers, uh, people in the industry. If you ask a question in there, you know, they'll, they'll answer it. Lisa's always in there. Pat Heist is always in there. Um, we have all kinds of people in there in that bourbon group that are just, it's part of the bourbon culture. It's a family. There's only three questions you have to ask. Are you 21? Do you drink bourbon and do you agree to play nice? We might actually put some extra questions in there that you have to agree to, but hey, we don't do politics. We don't do religion in there and we don't argue. Everybody's a family and you might find that people love, they absolutely love to share their whiskey and their bourbon road. So come in there and join us. The other thing is if you enjoy listening to our podcast, if you could please leave us a review on your podcast app that you use, if you're using Apple podcast or if you're using Spotify, wherever you listen to us at, leave us a review. It helps us open doors. If you also want to find the Glen Cairns we drink out of, let's say the Bourbon Road on them, they're on our website. We get those from distillery products and you can also get your Glen Cairns from there too, from premium bar products and put your name on there, your bar's name, whatever you have. Um, it's great. You can find me at one big chief on Instagram and you can find Jim at J Shannon 63. And once again, Steve, man, we appreciate it coming on today. I always love chatting with you.

I always love hanging with you, man.

Yeah. And we'll see you on down the bourbon road.

We do appreciate all of our listeners and we'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to hang out with us here on the Bourbon Road. We hope you enjoyed today's show and if so, we would appreciate if you'd subscribe and rate us a five star with a review on iTunes. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at The Bourbon Road. That way you'll be kept in the loop in all the Bourbon Road happenings. You can also visit our website at thebourbonroad.com to read our blog, listen to the show, or reach out to us directly. We always welcome comments or suggestions. And if you have an idea for a particular guest or topic, be sure to let us know. And again, thanks for hanging out with us.