384. Never Say Die

Welcome to another great episode of the Bourbon Road with your host, Jim O'Brien, where they talk bourbon and of course, drink bourbon. Grab yourself a pour, kick back and enjoy another trip down the Bourbon Road.

We're very excited to have Blanton'sBurbanShop.com as a new sponsor for the Bourbon Road podcast. In fact, this podcast is brought to you by Blanton's Burban Shop. Blanton'sBurbanShop.com is the only official merchandiser for Blanton's original single barrel. Looking for a unique gift? Blanton's Burban Shop has got you covered. Blanton'sBurbanShop.com is your home for all Blanton's gifts. The Bourbon Road is excited to have pintsandbarrels.com as a sponsor of this episode, as well as our official custom apparel provider. Be sure to check out pintsandbarrels.com and browse their ultimate online store for bourbon lovers. Hello listeners, and welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon, and today Today, we've got a guest on the show. We've got an interesting product, and it's one that I think you're going to be very pleased with. Our guest today is Martha Dalton. She is a co-founder with Never Say Die. Today, we're going to have their small batch bourbon on. Martha, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Jim. Really happy to be here.

You're coming to us from London in the UK and England. It's a little bit later there than it is here. I really appreciate you taking the time late in the evening to join me for an episode, but we're both going to be drinking a little bit of bourbon. Does that sound good?

It sounds perfect. Thank you.

A nightcap for you, I say.

Yeah, exactly. The perfect time to drink bourbon.

It's still a bit early for me, but that's okay. We'll average our times together and it's perfect for both of us, right?

Exactly. It's five o'clock somewhere.

It is always five o'clock somewhere. That is correct. Well, you did send us a sample of your small batch bourbon whiskey. And along with that, you sent us a few items, which we really appreciate. A hat, a t-shirt, and some very detailed marketing materials that outline the story of your brand. And I think it's just something our listeners are going to They're going to eat it up. They're just going to love this because it's such a great story. But before we get started and dive deep into that story, why don't we take a moment? We've got your small batch bourbon in our glass. Why don't we take a minute and we'll taste your bourbon and let people know what we think about it.

Perfect. So how do you have yours, Jim? Do you have yours with some ice or just straight up?

It's just straight up neat and a Glencairn.

Perfect. So our small batch bourbon is very much small batch. So larger brands ordinarily, they would be mixing quite a lot of barrels into one. For us, we only use 10 barrels.

Which is still reasonably good size batch. I think that small batch is a very loosely used term a lot of times. Sometimes it could be anywhere between two barrels and 200, depending on the size of your operation. But I feel like 10 barrels is a fine size for a small batch.

Yeah, exactly. So if you want to have a little taste, I'm just going to pour mine in here now. What do you get on the nose?

Oh, it's a, it's a nice, uh, caramel, a little bit of oak, um, kind of a, a little bit of a, like a toffee or raisin on the nose a little bit. Not getting a lot of fruits, but it is, it does have a nice floral note to it. Um, it's hard to put my finger on it, but I would say this one kind of, uh, is, is, is a very traditional bourbon. It has very traditional bourbon notes to it. And, uh, it's one of those, I think, as you knows it, you say, this is very likely a Kentucky bourbon, you know, that really good character to it.

Yeah. And our bourbon is a high rye, so it's 21% rye. But I think the nice thing about it is you still get that real kind of crowd pleasing kind of classic bourbon taste to it.

This has got quite a bit of age to it. So it's not a new bourbon. It's not a young straight bourbon. This is something that sat in a barrel for a while. How old is this?

It is just shy of five years in Kentucky, then it's six weeks on the ocean, and then almost a year in the UK in Derbyshire in England.

So as you say that, we have listeners scratching their head and going, wait a minute here, something doesn't seem right. But this is Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey that was aged for a good number of years here in Kentucky. And it left the U S in barrels.

That's right. That's the thing that makes us different. We do everything to make it a Kentucky straight bourbon. Then instead of bottling it in Kentucky, we ship it out in the barrels and basically take it on the world's largest cocktail shaker. The barrels get shaken up for six weeks on an ocean container. Then they get taken off the ship, driven to our friends at White Peak, which are an English whiskey distillery. They then take care of the barrels for us, in this case for about a year before it's blended and put into the bottles.

So the maturation is finished in England.

That's right. For us, what's quite exciting is you get three different climatic conditions. You get the hot summers of Kentucky, which obviously makes absolutely exceptional bourbon, but then it goes on to the ocean where it gets shaken up, which obviously in terms of for most bourbons, they'll be put in a rick house. and left. But for us, we're really shaking them up. And so that's bringing more of the barrel into the liquid. And then it goes to England, which where is a kind of much more temperate climate, which then I think gives it more of that, it smooths it off at the end.

I'm assuming that you taste through these barrels before they enter, before they go on shipment, and then you probably taste through them as they arrive out of into the UK. So there's probably some noticeable difference that you're able to discern based on that ocean voyage.

Yeah. So for us, nothing leaves Kentucky, which isn't really good. So we want it to be a really good product before it goes on its journey. And the ocean aging process is There's quite a lot of luck in there. The gods of the sea are having their way in terms of exactly how bumpy or smooth the voyage is. But for us, we taste it, obviously, before it leaves. Actually, it does feel more integrated by the time it's come off the ocean and then further still having spent time in the UK.

We know from some other brands out there that have allowed their barreled whiskey to spend time at sea or otherwise on the water. There is something that takes place. There's something that happens in that process. Are yours contained within the holds of the ship? Are they exposed to the sea air? Is there any of that involved in the process? Or they just contain rice for the shipment over?

They're in a container and obviously you get a bit of leakage. Some of them end up with quite a bit more angel share having lost after that voyage, but we think that it gives us something special. For us, it's also really about the roots of our brand story. Our bourbon is named after a racehorse that was born in Kentucky. It was actually born on one of our co-founders' family farm. Pat Madden and their family had the Hamburg farms. Never Say Die was born on one of those farms on a really stormy night. There was a party going on at the main house. The horseman is looking after these foals. And one of them just doesn't look like it's going to make it. And he goes up to the main house and says, boss, you know, we've got a big problem. So he comes down and he's holding a bottle of bourbon and he goes, right, this is a bit crazy, but we're going to last roll of the dice. We're going to try and shove a whole load of bourbon up its nose and see what happens. Um, and luckily, um, the next morning it's running around the pen. Um, and so they call that full never say die. And that foal goes on to be the first American racehorse to win an English classic in a really long time and does so in 1954 in front of the Queen and Winston Churchill. And so for us, we really wanted our liquid to follow in the hoof steps, if you will, of our horse.

That's a fantastic story. It's amazing. And so is that commonplace or is that very unusual to introduce bourbon to a horse? Have you heard? Did it just come to mind or is that something that somebody might do from time to time?

I think it was a pretty radical, wacky idea that might have been slightly the thought process of someone who's had a couple of bourbons. Luckily for us, it helped that fall at that time. The bit about the story that I haven't told you yet, but is the best bit, is that When Never Say Die was running in that race, it was 33 to 1. Rank outsider, had at the time a jockey 17-year-old that no one had ever heard of, Lester Piggott. There was a woman up in Liverpool in England, really down on her luck. She walks past a bookmakers, because that's what we have here in England. It's a bit of a different system. She sees this horse 33 to one, never say die, and thinks that's a bit of me. I need to put all my money on that. So she goes and pawns all of her jewelry, sticks it all on. Um, and wins big, um, and says to her son and his friends, you know, boys, you know, I've got the money. I can buy you your instruments. You can start your band. Um, and her son was Pete Best, who was the original drummer for the Beatles. Um, and they, they set up, they, they started out as the quarry men in her club and the Casbah club.

The Casbah Club, well known, of course. Well, fantastic. And the Beatles, of course, well known. But that's fantastic. So if you want to draw conclusions from one end to the next, you could say without bourbon, there wouldn't be Beatles.

Well, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

But really, without an amazing horse pulling it all out and winning the Derby, I mean, that's really how it happened, right?

Yeah, exactly. Because it was such a fantastic story and a story that was the family tale of one of our co-founders, it just meant that we were so keen on making sure that every stage of the process was true to that heritage.

So much the same way that the horse was born in Kentucky and finished in the UK. Exactly. The same with the bourbon finished in the UK. So fantastic. What a great parallel to draw there and a great story. And I've got your bottle here with me and it's a great bottle that really does sort of lay out that whole picture of sort of thing starting in 1954 with a racehorse. And it's just wonderful. I love the name Never Say Die. This is absolutely delightful. I think it's a wonderful whiskey. It's a great full-bodied, well-balanced bourbon. The proof on it is 95 proof.

Yeah, that's right.

And it just settles in real nice across the entire palate up front. It has a nice entry. It presents itself well across the middle of the palate. It sits in with that 21% rye on the back and gives you a nice little bit of warmth there. The length of the finish is medium to long. It's really nice and it carries a great flavor with it in the finish, which is so nice. I'm going to say that this is not only a very good sipping bourbon, but this is also going to be something that's going to push through in a cocktail and really show itself. Well, I would say in an old fashioned or a Manhattan that this would make a tremendous cocktail.

I think it's got that rye that gives it a bit more punch, but then it just is really like a really warm, it's got the sweetness that I personally like in a bourbon.

But you could just as well sit out on a patio with a cigar and enjoy it or a box of chocolates. It doesn't matter. Either one would work well with it, I think.

Yeah, exactly. And this year we were at the Epsom Derby and we had lots of our original investors over, all of our co-founders all got together. And it was a nice, nice sunny day in June. And, you know, I was drinking boulevardiers and having a very nice time.

Ooh, a boulevardier. I haven't had one in a while. I need to revisit that. Maybe with this. I think I have the components to make it. So, fantastic.

Yeah, because I think you've got a little bit of orange blossom that kind of goes nicely with the orange in the boulevardier.

Well, we're going to take a short break. It was wonderful to drink through this. When we come back in the second half, you're going to tell us a little bit about some of the new things you guys have going on, some interesting facts. We'll talk about the relationship between Kentucky and the UK and what other expressions you have in your future. So folks, we want you to stick around. We're going to come back here in a few, and we're going to continue with this great story about never say die. Blanton's bourbon shop has got you covered. All of their handcrafted wood products are made in their in-house wood shop with authentic bourbon barrels. Specializing in barrel-age potent treats, they use Blanton's barrels to age their own maple syrup, honey, and coffee. Find the most unique gift ideas for your golf lover, cigar connoisseur, avid coffee drinker, and Blanton's fan. Want to win an authentic Blanton's barrel head? Make sure you sign up for the giveaway on the home page of their website. Blanton's bourbon shop dot com is your home for all Blanton's gifts. If you're a bourbon drinker, and I bet you are if you're listening to this podcast, you need to head over to pintsandbarrels.com and check out the ultimate online store for bourbon lovers. Pints and Barrels Company was started by bourbon lovers for bourbon lovers. From spices to t-shirts, you'll find the perfect bourbon gift. Pints and Barrels proudly supports the bourbon road and invites you to visit pintsandbarrels.com. You need a custom apparel or swag for your bar, distillery, maybe even your bourbon society. They can do that too. As a matter of fact, they print our apparel. We're so happy with the quality and fast turnaround, heightsandbarrels.com, the ultimate bourbon lovers gift shop and branding specialist. Alright listeners, so we are back. We had a nice little break there. Martha and I just continued to sip on our Never Say Die small batch bourbon whiskey while we chatted during the break. Martha is the co-founder of Never Say Die, a wonderful brand of bourbon whiskey made in Kentucky, finished in London, England. And with a great story behind it, we went through that in the first half. In the second half, we're going to talk a little bit more about the kind of things they have going on now and into the future. Martha, as we continue to sip on this, maybe you could tell us a little bit about like other expressions you have or you have in the works that people can look forward to.

Continuing with our quirky character, we were actually an American brand, but we launched in London first. At the moment, in the UK, And in Germany and in other bits of Europe, we have on sale our small batch that we're tasting today. We also have a rye whiskey. And then we've also been doing some barrel picks of single barrel cast strength. So they've been on sale since kind of the last bit of 2022. In the States we launched initially with our small batch bourbon at the end of last year. It flew off the shelves much to our delight so it's now reasonably difficult to get your hands on, but we're stepping up our production and bottling here in the UK. So a shipment will be coming back to the states in the next couple of months. And we'll also be looking to launch our rye in America soon as well.

And what region of Kentucky does your bourbon originate from?

Um, so, um, our bourbon is made in Danville, Kentucky.

Okay. So from Danville, uh, after, uh, four plus years of aging, it finds its way into a container and then onto a ship and then, uh, across the ocean, swishy swashy, getting all the wonderful movement and it arrives in, in the UK where it's delivered to your handlers who are whiskey people themselves.

Yeah, that's right.

They continue to mature the product and get it ready for bottling.

Exactly.

In that whole process, what's the bottleneck? Of course, if your brand grows very fast, what's the part that gives you the most trouble, I should say?

I think for us, we've wanted to make, you know, this has been a labor of love for all of us. We're all people with other jobs. So for us, we've wanted to never cut any corners. We've wanted to make sure that everything is done just as we want it to be done. But also because we're a new brand, we're experimental. And so for us, There's a consistency. We always want that never-say-die taste, but we're still experimenting a bit with exactly the length of time, exactly how we do things. bit of a headache when you're trying to reinvent things, but also part of the magic of starting your own brand and having your own product. It means you can refine it as you go. We don't have a 100-year-old recipe that we have to stick to.

You've got employees both in the United States and you've got them in the UK. This multinational team that you have, how many people form this team?

It's a tiny team. We've got four co-founders in America, three of us over here in England. Then we've bolted on a whole lot of help of the best people we could find to help us along the way. In the UK, we partner with an English whiskey distillery called White Peak. They take care of our barrels, but it's a quite nice symbiotic relationship. They store our barrels for us and then they get our freshly dumped barrels to make their English whiskey in. For each stage of the process, we're just trying to build a bit of a community around what we're doing.

So you're one of the founders. I think I spoke with Brian Lefman, who is another founder of the company, correct?

That's right, yeah. Yeah, Brian's based out in Lexington.

And what are the other principals?

So we've got Pat Madden, who is based out in, you know, is from Kentucky. And it was his idea, along with David Wilde, who's based out in London. Basically, they were friends at Cambridge. They met up at one of these kind of reunion events and Pat invited David out to the Kentucky Derby. They were doing the usual, on the back of the bus, drinking some mint juleps. when Pat started telling David about this amazing story of Never Say Die, this racehorse. Essentially, it was a drunken idea that we've decided to make happen for real. They're some of the people. Also, Shane Baker and Pat Heist of Wilderness Trail fame are also co-founders in our brand.

Well, fantastic. It sounds like a great group of people that have a love for the product and have a love for Kentucky and horses and all things in between. So yeah, I think when you do it out of love and you do it out of excitement, when it starts as a spark of interest based around something you're very passionate about, you can't help but have a leg up when it comes to being successful. So I think it's great. I continue to sip on this. I continue to think about just how solid and well-rounded and just what a great What great whiskey to start with, your brand. I mean, it's just such a solid bourbon. And I say this a lot, and people are going to get on me about it, but it really does check all the boxes when it comes to bourbon. This is truly a quintessential Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey, and it has all the age you would want on a bourbon. Of course, we like to see extra age bourbon sometimes, but just for that wonderful weekend pour that you look forward to after a hard week at work, a five year old straight Kentucky bourbon with some, uh, some extra treatment that you guys give it is just amazing. It's so good.

Then our next batch will be slightly aged longer. So our original batch, we had 100 barrels shipped over from America to the UK, and we've had another 100 barrels shipped at the end of last year. So our next release is going to be closer to a six, six and a half year old.

Let's divert just for a moment and talk about that rye that's coming. A lot of our listeners are going to be interested to know a little bit more about that rye, even though we don't have a glass of it today. Can you tell us a little bit more about the details and what they can expect, like the mash bill and the age and those things?

The mash bill of our rye is 56% rye, 33% corn, and 11% malted barley. And it's a three-year-old rye. And it's got all of the spiciness that you would expect from a rye and that you would want. So it packs a punch and can really hold its own in a cocktail. But it's actually pretty smooth with it. And it's still got some of that sweetness in there. I think for people that don't want a rye that's too, too spicy, but that's well-rounded, a rye, I think, hopefully, should please them.

Yeah, we kind of call that a Kentucky rye, right? A rye that has a large portion of corn as a flavoring grain. So yeah, it's a bourbon drinker's rye, I think is the best way to look at it. Yeah. So fantastic. And three years old is wonderful for a rye with that mash bill and aged in Kentucky as well. And I'm assuming this will be aged in Kentucky. It will be batched and bottled in the UK as well.

Exactly. So it'll have this, it'll have the same journey. So made in Danville, you know, stored there in the Rick house, all of the beautiful hot summers, then taken over in the barrels onto the ocean, you know, shaken up and then taken to the UK to rest more and then be bottled here in the UK.

Fantastic. And so you, you also have a single barrel that you have released in the UK only at this point. And can you tell me a little bit about that?

Yeah, so essentially when we first started out, we had a couple of obstacles in the road. One of them was the bourbon tariffs that were the result of essentially a kind of a political fight between the US and the European Union, where Europe decided to put an extra 25% tariff on all quintessentially American goods. So bourbon, Levi's jeans, cranberries, et cetera, et cetera. It was all a bit silly in my opinion. But we started up a campaign with the folks at Discus, with lots of the industry over in the UK to try and persuade the politicians that they needed to sort it out. That was called the Bourbon Alliance. Luckily, a deal was done. But it meant on the, and so that was the first of June, 2022. And we basically had our barrels ready to go to be shipped straight away. But we really wanted to launch at the whiskey show, which was in London that fall. And we just had no time to be able to do a small batch or anything like that. And we wanted to have a whiskey ready to go. And when we tried some of our, single barrels. They were honestly fantastic and we just thought we needed to, you know, make sure that they got to some people's lips. So there's a really incredible group called the British Bourbon Society here in the UK. So we let them do the first ever barrel pick of Never Say Die.

Lucky people. Well, hopefully we're going to see some, at least, single barrel products hit the shelves here in the US, even though they might not be private selections, but still single barrels would be very nice. Is that something that we can see in the future?

I think for us, we want to make sure that we get more bottles available in the US small batch because that's our hero product to launch the Rye. But if people want to do barrel picks and we get enough interest, then we're open to that. It's just a question of whether people want to fly over to the UK to to make that trip just to taste some juice, but we're open to all things.

Well, I can understand. The logistics there are quite something because the barrel has to travel to you and then go through the process and the additional aging and then become bottled at your location. So somebody's going to have to fly somewhere in order to make it happen. So I understand that completely. And maybe there are a few souls out there who are thinking, that's me, I'm going to do that.

Yeah, exactly. We had lots of people travel from Kentucky to come over to the Epsom Derby this June and we all had a really great time. So you never know, maybe some of those never say die fans might want to make the trip again.

Fantastic. So, along this conversation, we've never told people yet what the price of a bottle of Never Say Die Small Batch Bourbon is. So, if somebody finds this bottle on the shelf here in the US, what's the MSRP or average expected price for them to see this bottle at here in the US?

I think it's about $65. About $65. Okay.

Fantastic. And when your ride does arrive, have you put a price on that yet?

It'll probably be about kind of 10 bucks above that. Yeah.

Okay. All right. So, rye is a little bit more difficult to produce. They do get a little foamy in the vats. So, you can't really fill the fermenters all the way up with a good rye. So, it just takes a little bit more. Exactly.

It costs us a bit more to produce. Yeah. But the bottle looks the same. It's just we've inverted the label. So, it's black with white writing rather than white with black.

Now I noticed that it's an embossed bottle, so it does have some embossing on the glass and there are some symbols on the bottom and there's also like a shield on the side of the bottle. Can you tell us a little bit about those embossings?

Yeah, so the shield, so the bottle, the label and the bottle design are designed by the folks at Stranger and Stranger. And they do brilliant work and they created this shield for us. So you can see the cross, that's the English cross, our flag. Um, then the diagonal lines, um, that's to, um, pay homage to the corn. Um, then we have the, the horseshoe, um, after never say die a horse and then the, the kind of squiggly lines that's, um, that's the ocean aging. So that's the water.

Fantastic.

You can see at the bottom of the bottle, we have a horseshoe, which is a nice thing when you pour it that you discover. Then you can also see we've got the KY for Kentucky and we've got LP, which is Liverpool. That's where the boat goes into in Liverpool, but it's also where the Beatles were from. It's a bit of a hint to that being part of our story.

Beautiful packaging. So well done. I kind of get a little bit excited about packaging. I know it's just a bottle. I know it's just a label, but it means so much. It really completes a product. And you have such great whiskey inside to finish it with a bottle like this is so nice. And I'm glad you took the extra time to to really put together a bottle that sort of has a statement, makes a statement.

Yeah, exactly. And if you look at the side, the kind of perforation edges, that's also to give you a bit of a sense of a betting slip after a horse. And also the font that we've used, that's taken from an English newspaper in 1954 when Never Say Die won the Derby. Quite a lot of painstaking care has gone into it, but that's all part of the fun. We had time on our hands whilst the bourbon was maturing, so we needed something to spend our time on.

So I'm going to go ahead and ask the question. You guys are really just getting started and you have such a wonderful whiskey in your first release here in the US. We've talked a little bit about what's coming down the road as far as liquids go, potentially cross our fingers a single barrel, but definitely a rye. What about customer experiences? Are you planning something in the US, something in the UK? How can people sort of experience your product one-on-one? Are you going to have an open store or something like that?

So we would really love to get involved in the Bourbon Trail, but it's slightly a bit too early in our story to know exactly what that would be. The fact that our brand involves both horses and bourbon, I think gives us some ideas, but we don't have any set plans yet. At the moment, we retail in 30 eight states. But we will be launching in California, Chicago, Florida, Nevada, and Arizona later this year. So we'll almost have complete coverage.

Do you have an online outlet in the US?

At the moment, we don't have any direct-to-consumer route to market. It's all through stores, and then Sealbox are a distributor out of Washington, and you can buy online through them.

Okay, so it is available through Sealbox then?

Yeah.

Fantastic. So for the moment, there's no distillery experience for anybody, but that could be coming in the future. But for the moment, if somebody does come over to the UK and they want to try your whiskey, the only thing they're going to be able to do there is to maybe pick up a single barrel or buy something on the shelf.

Yeah. We've taken people up to White Peak in Derbyshire, which is where all of our barrels are stored. We've had quite a lot of fun doing small little tours of people who've wanted to do a barrel pick and also taken media up and that kind of thing. We've got that available to us. But we're basically focusing at the moment on ramping up our bottling capability and making sure that we can basically fulfill the demand that we have because we sold out in about two weeks before Christmas. That's our focus is making sure that we're back in stock ultimately.

So you have a website, I assume, and people can go on there and find out where you're available in the US?

Yeah. So never say die, bourbon.com. And then that has all of our retail options available there.

And if they're in a state that is not carrying you, what should they do? Should they talk to their distributor? Should they talk to their local liquor store and request a bottle?

they can write to me and I can try and figure it out.

So Martha at NeverSayDieBurban.com.

On social media, maybe you can take a minute and let everybody know where we can find you on the social media outlets and maybe they'll want to follow you.

Yeah, so we have an Instagram page that's got lots of beautiful recipes. That's where we try and keep people up to date with the latest states that were available and all of that kind of stuff. So if you check out our Instagram page, that's never say die bourbon.

Fantastic. Well, Martha, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for sharing your small batch bourbon whiskey with me. Like I said before, it's very good. It's a delightful bourbon. It definitely checks all the boxes for me. It's something that I think anybody would be proud to serve up to a guest at their home bar. And hopefully they could find it out in town at a bar as well. Being in 30 states, At this point, you guys are relatively new, but to be in 30 states already and to be adding California and others so quickly, you're available on Sealbox as well. I would say for the most part that our listeners here in the US can get a bottle if they really, really want one, it sounds like.

Yeah, exactly. And hopefully, we will be ramping up our production and getting it to more people. Because we're really pleased with the reception we've had so far. So hopefully, we can make sure that more people can try it.

Fantastic. Well, thank you again for being on the show. And great, great, Barbin. Really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. All right, well, you can find The Bourbon Road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, threads, TikTok even. You can find us on all the social media outlets. You can also find us on our private Facebook group called The Bourbon Roadies. That's where all our listeners love to hang out, share stories. About 3,200 listeners love to get on there and just talk about the episodes and share pictures of what they're drinking. And just good friends, good whiskey. It's a great time. We hope you'll check it out. Every single week on a Wednesday, we'll release a new episode. They're all about 45 minutes to an hour long. We'll always have a great guest on like Martha Dalton from Never Say Die. It's really easy to make sure that you don't miss a single episode. Just scroll up to the top of that app you're on. Hit that subscribe button. Make sure you get that notification once a week as we release a new episode and you'll be in the groove. You'll know exactly what's going on with bourbon in your area. So thank you for listening folks. We hope to see you next week, but until then we'll see you down the bourbon road.

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