428. 15 Stars Fine Aged Bourbon with Rick and Ricky

Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon. And I'm your host, Todd Ritter.

We've got a great show for you today. So grab your favorite pour and join us.

Todd and I are proud to have Smokey's Lifestyle Cigars as a sponsor of this episode and as the official cigar of the Bourbon Road Podcast. Our hosts and listeners alike enjoy the ultimate experience of premium cigars. Smokey's Lifestyle Cigars are where flavor and craftsmanship meet. Find out more during the halftime break and at Smokey's Lifestyle Cigar dot com. The Surgeon General warns that cigar smoking can cause lung cancer and heart disease and is not a safe alternative to cigarettes. The Hill House Bed and Breakfast, located in Loretto, Kentucky, is ready to be your bourbon country home away from home. Located less than three miles from Maker's Mark, the Hill House is convenient to Bardstown and the rest of the Bourbon Trail. The next time you visit bourbon country, choose comfort and convenience. Choose the Hill House Bed and Breakfast. Listen in at the break for more details or visit their website at thehillhousekentucky.com. All right, listeners, we welcome you back once again to another episode of The Bourbon Road. Todd and I are hanging out today with a couple of good old friends. They've been on the show before. Todd, why don't you tell everybody who's with us today?

So today we've got Rick and Ricky Johnson from 15 Stars. They appeared back in episode 345, and some of their product has appeared on a couple other episodes that you've talked about. And then I think we even brought them up on episode 402, or reviewed one of their recent drops. So welcome to the show, guys.

We're happy to be here again. Good to see you. Pleasure. Good to be back.

It's always fun to hang out with you guys. You guys make some really good whiskey and, uh, we always have a good chat. So it's a, it's a lot of fun. And so why don't we get straight to the whiskey? What do we have in our first class today, Todd?

So this is their fine aged bourbon. This is their eight and 15. It is a blend of eight year old whiskey and or eight year old bourbon and 15 year old bourbon. And I'm sure they could go into finer details on that. It's a 107 proof. And yeah, I've had this before and it's outstanding. And I'm sure I'm looking forward to getting back into this.

Yeah, the private stock is a really great bourbon. Kind of showing a dynamic that you can create with blending where you have, I wouldn't say a young eight-year-old, but four and eight-year-old, a little bit of a younger profile. And then a 15 that just on its own has a lot of oak, it's a little tannic, maybe even a little too much. But when you take them each separately and bring them together, They can really compliment each other and bring the best out of each other so you get the kind of fruity notes the banana caramel with the eight year old and then the you know the oak backbone is what i call it with that fifteen so a little bit of the oak maple kind of bark flavors in there that

Give it a good contrast. Yeah, great balance that we, you know, that really was, Private Stock was our second bourbon that we produced. So our first was our Tenants Reserve, which was a 14 and 15-year-old blend that was one of three finalists at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition for best bourbon of the year. And so this was our second, it started out as a 7 and 15. That 7-year-old got a little older, so we bottled it as an 8 and 15-year-old blend. And it was interesting, the little bit of change, you know, these bourbons are alive in those barrels. And even just that one year made a little bit of change, a noticeable change to us. I'm not sure that everybody would say that, but to us it was really a noticeable change. And we really, we love that balance between, as Ricky was saying, young. I don't think anybody really says eight year old is young. But in that, that maturation process, right, of bourbon at a barrel, when it gets toward that eight-year-old, it's really lost that graininess to it, right? It's a fully mature bourbon, really. So young to us is probably eight years old, which is really fully mature. It's lost that graininess. But what it hasn't picked up is those deeper barrel flavors and that little bit of astringency that sometimes comes with a, you know, a super-aged bourbon, which a 15-year-old has. And so that balance between as Ricky was saying those kind of fruitier lighter notes and that that eight-year-old really is a light fruit it's a delicious bourbon on its own but but lighter and fruitier with those with those really fully mature flavors and finding that balance blending is about balance. And so that's really what we spend our time doing is finding whiskies that are complementary. And then there's a point at which both in the blending and then in the proofing where that balance really is optimized. And that's really what we spend our time doing is finding a really nice balance that adds to the flavor profile overall. That blending gives you that broader flavor profile, brings a couple of different mixes together. And, and where does that flavor profile get optimized for a drinker? And that's really what we're, that's what we're about.

Well, let's, uh, let's check this out, Todd. Then I've got a few questions for them on this. For me, I do love the sort of the balance between fruitiness and oakiness on this. It does kind of give you a little bit of both. And, uh, but also it, um, And this is only on the nose, by the way. It does really impress the nose with this sort of old oak flavor, this Rick House kind of impression that you get. And so you get this wonderfulness of an extra age bourbon while still getting this fruitiness you get from one that's in the saddle, that eight to 12-year saddle. You know, the eight to 10-year saddle, I guess, is probably where whiskey's can kind of reach that optimal state.

It's a really nice, like, I get like a cocktail cherry thing on brown sugar and that banana note that Ricky was talking about.

Yeah, that's the one I always think is interesting. That banana note. I always think, I always think bananas foster because it also has that like caramelized sugar kind of like creme brulee. Yeah, it's definitely a sweeter banana. I feel like bananas foster just ties it all together.

Big banana you can get on some things.

Not the Laffy Taffy banana.

Yeah, banana runs and things. Yeah. But yeah, great downs.

Guys, and your banana, I just can't pick it up. I've never been able to really. Not very well anyway. But it's kind of a joke between us because I just never quite get it for some reason. Now, I seem to be able to pick up the artificial banana. You know, the kind of the fakey stuff. Sure. But not the real bananas.

You know what's interesting about this one too, when we had both of these in the market, that first timeless reserve, I mentioned a 14 and 15 year old blend, which was $279 bottle, right? Sold out, gone, delicious thing. But what's really interesting is people were tasting between the two. It wasn't unusual that if you had a half a dozen people in the room, two or three of them said, hey, I honestly prefer this eight and 15 private stock. Or more than two or three. Sometimes more than. And you would think that, again, the Timeless Reserve was a really elegant whiskey, a beautiful whiskey. But this really kind of lines up together. It was great to have those two in the market together. And we have a 13-year version of that 14- and 15-year out now, the Timeless Reserve. Same products, same products, but a 13- and 15-year plan.

That's really kind of the the objective isn't to have any product to be completely superior to another. We all we make them all to be the best they can be. And I mean, a testament to that is our most awarded product is our first West Rye whiskey. That is our also lowest retail price.

That is interesting. And that's well said. you know when we when we when we put these together we use what we call our reference collection and so these are the bottles that are the bottles on the secondary market it's the you know it's the antique collection it's the birthday bourbon it's the happy releases it's you know it's the heritage collection it's it's all the it's all the major distillers very best releases and when we get when we're in that blending process And we optimize a couple of three things. We always go to that collection and we pour a half a dozen, probably not half a dozen, we try and keep it to four, sometimes it gets to half a dozen. But we pour some selections out of that reference collection. And that's a lot of fun, obviously. But we taste our blends against those. And what we're really trying to do is say, We're not trying to match anything, but we're saying, hey, does it fit within that context? And it's got to fit within that context of those very best bourbons by the very best distillers, or we don't bottle it under 15 stars. And so like Ricky said, they all fit in that. And so it isn't necessarily, yes, are the super-aged ones higher priced because it costs us more to put it together? Yes, they are. But as Ricky's well said, our lowest priced Release our, our ride, our first West dry, um, most awarded one, two best of show competitions, New York one in spirits and LA spirits. Uh, so two best of shows.

That's a fantastic ride. You guys sent us a bottle of that as well. And we really enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. We'll tell you a little later about a ride we're working on.

Okay. Sounds exciting. I don't need two best of shows, but we're working on it.

Now, it's been a while since you guys have been on, so could you tell the folks kind of where the 15 stars brand came from, the idea behind that, and then kind of what you guys do for 15 stars? I mean, are you both a part of the blending process or kind of along those lines? Sure. Ricky, take the first shot.

Sure. So 15 stars is named after the second US flag, which had 15 stars and stripes representing Kentucky as the 15th state. And so kind of the thought behind that is looking back to the artisans and the craftsmen that were present at the time that flag was flying, which was a good amount of time from 1795 to 1818, a pretty significant portion of American history, but a bit forgotten. And the craftsmen and artisan that were present were really putting their hands on the goods they were making, you know, handcrafted items that they were proud to make, whether it was guns, silver, furniture, whiskey, all these different goods that they're proud to make and their consumers were proud to receive and share with friends and family. So it's that idea that we like to take to our products where we're putting trying to be as hands on as possible, create something that really is the best it can be that we are really proud of and that our customer in the same way as back then is as proud to own and proud to sip.

Yeah, says it well, and that kind of artisanship, that old-day artisanship that was in Kentucky, and Kentucky has such a rich history that almost nobody really knows about, but it was, you know, again, 1795 was that flag recognizing Kentucky as a 15th state. Obviously, 1792 was the year it became a state, but 1795, the year of the flag. And the artisanship in Kentucky was, it was these Easterners streaming into the West, the then West, Kentucky was the West, and looking for opportunity, right? These were people that were looking for a great new start in life. It was a cosmopolitan type place, Lexington was really highly developed. They were making whiskey and making great whiskey, but they were also making silver and furniture type goods, guns, as Ricky said, a lot of artisan type things. What we were impressed with in that was the quality and artisanship that's been in Kentucky for so long. It really sets the stage for how real artisanship ought to happen. It is small batch. It's small batch in that it was made for a customer. It's not mass produced parts, it's getting the very best materials. You know and that we have some furniture that's got some beautiful cherry wood in and out of those early kentucky forest we got some guns that have beautiful silver work on them. I just we just bought a rotating broiler cooking piece of equipment against a fire a fireplace in kentucky with these really ornate french kind of designs to it. that were hand-wrought out of iron that was mined in Kentucky and smelted in Kentucky. It's the kind of work that's done by somebody who really cared about what they were doing. It wasn't just the easiest thing they could do or the most efficient thing or the cheapest thing. It was really about Even in that day, how do you put something together that's super, super special and will, as we say, stand the test of time, which they have, or we wouldn't be able to collect them back in today. But that's what we're trying to do. You know, we're kind of saying if we can align with that, that's a pretty special thing. And I don't think, you know, Kentucky doesn't need another another basic bourbon, right? Kentucky makes some awesome products. But if you can take that kind of a methodology to it and kind of harken to those days and produce something really special and use the blending and flavor-proofing methods that we're after, I think there's a place for that, right? And it's a place we're really pleased to play.

Well, I think that that's a great way to sort of spell out the vision of your company. I think it's a great vision to have. And when you try to steep your business and the work that you do and reference quality and that nature, it just kind of... hugs at your heartstrings just a little bit. I kind of like that. And I appreciate some of that older stuff and the way the craftsmen worked very hard and tried to make a name for themselves in their own communities. So it's a great thing.

You think about especially these, right? These bourbons are in Kentucky. We have our Kentucky-only release, Kentucky Stars, which is a $99 suggested retail. And then it runs to two seventy nine so these are not inexpensive bourbons right i mean they're gonna make a little investment but. Yeah but they're gonna get something special if you really think about the great times if you got if you're sitting down with family members are you got your best best buddies over for a card game or you know whatever it is. It's pretty nice to sit there and share something that's really special and someone make something to that stands up to those those moments those are really there is not anything better in life and sit down with family and friends and spending a little time together and bourbon helps you and a great bourbon right help you kind of bring you together and give you a reason to spend some more time together right let's not make this quick let's sit back and let's relax and let's spend a little time together enjoy this and. You know, there's a lot of things that happen in life, but I really don't think there's anything any better than that. And so why would you, you know, if we can, if we can help those moments, God darn it, that's, that's as good as it gets.

Yeah. There's a couple of things in life that cause you to slow down just a little bit. One's a good meal and the other one's a good glass of bourbon. So much appreciated.

Once the finish on this bourbon, it just goes and goes and goes. Everything gets a little quiet after that. I'm kind of like, whoo, but well done. Now, like I said, what should you, you guys both kind of work on the blends or is someone kind of the lead on that or?

Yeah, somebody's the lead. Yeah, I take a little bit of the lead. We definitely both work on it, but I'll kick it off, find the direction and then kind of plan out the tastings for us to go over things and make decisions.

Yeah.

And I play with it a little bit. Big picture, too, right? I mean, I do some of the, you know, thinking about that. But Ricky does do that. He's he's actually I mean, I think we've got very, very similar taste profiles. But and we're both pretty good at the bling, which is kind of unbelievable. I mean, we didn't know starting. Right. I mean, it is unbelievable. But he's got a better sensitivity to it. He's got an unusual sensitivity to it. And he has since he's been a little kid.

Let's dispel a myth here, Ricky, if you don't mind, help us out a little bit. As a blender for a whiskey company, if you take two great whiskeys, whiskey A and whiskey B, and they're both wonderful whiskies on their own, if you combine them, are you guaranteed to get a good whiskey?

Not guaranteed, but I would say it's probable.

Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that said before where just because you combine two really good whiskeys doesn't mean you're going to get a great whiskey from them. So there's certainly an art to blending.

I would say, yeah, there's an art to it. I would say if you took those two, if, if, if I were able to take two whiskeys like that and go through the whole process to find what I thought was the best outcome. more times than not, it would be better than the individuals.

That's fair to say it's I mean, everything doesn't go together. There's no question about that. But, but as Ricky said, there's a likelihood if you got a couple of really great whiskeys, that there's some blend in there of some percentage at some proof that'll be better than just the one alone. But there's a lot of work in running through all that, you know, and, and it's a, it's, it's a, it's a real flavor experiment.

Now, Ricky, when you start your blend, do you, I mean, you kind of know the barrels you're going to work with. Is there like, do you have something in mind? Like, this is kind of the flavors I want to feature and you continue to like play until you get the best expressions of those flavors that you want in there. Or are you just kind of like, let's mix A and B and see what kind of happens and then go from there. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, it's kind of just a balancing act where, like, if I'm starting with two things, obviously I've familiarized myself with them, I've tried them separately, or I've had experience with them before. So I kind of have an idea how they'll work together. Generally, I'll just kind of try things at different percentages, kind of go through the overarching options just to get an understanding of the different directions I can take with it. And then based on the flavors that are present in those different directions, I'll focus in on one a little more that I prefer. And then you can start to balance out those flavors in that direction. So, you know, kind of somewhat of a process of elimination. Just keep going and going until you get to your favorite.

If we're starting over, we don't really aren't starting with two whiskies typically, right? We're starting with a group of whiskies to which we probably bring it down to two or three. We don't think you can put We don't think you can put six whiskey in a blend and optimize it, right? That's what we call the globe, right? It's where we put the leftovers each time, right? It's the mix. It blends itself. It's like a giant committee, right? You get too many people in a committee and you cut off all the edges of it, right? You get something that's okay, but it's not optimal. And to get optimal, we're really taking mostly a group of liquids and narrowing it down to two or three that really play well together and then trying to optimize it. And I said from your point there, when we've heard people say it, sometimes they're trying to get somewhere with it. But I think our philosophy is more letting the whiskey show what they have to show. And so we're not trying to push them into a corner anywhere. We're trying to find that spot where they're the very best they can be. And I think that's Against a couple of people that have a very different process than that. Um, you know, it's, we just don't see it that way. And we have never, we have never tried to, we never tried to get anywhere. We've always tried to say, where did these whiskies show their very best?

And I think probably. some blenders out there are constrained by inventories and they're driven to a blend based on what's available and what they have. That's very true. That's very true. They're maybe driven from accounting too. Accounting drives them in a certain direction one way or the other. But when you let the whiskey take you where it's going to take you and you just find that best combination, that's really a wonderful thing. Having the ability to do that and the freedom to do that, must be very satisfying, Ricky.

It is definitely. Yeah. It allows you to not second guess yourself and what you're doing either is you can, you can go the path you want to go and feel good about your outcome.

It's a luxury we have, just as you said, having that inventory. We have a really, really great inventory of diversity of products at high age. It's three years in the making and plenty of dollars. We've had the luxury of being able to do that. to have that inventory and it really is your exactly right if you don't have that deep inventory. I remember the classic example is our is our sherry cash finish bourbon where we had which probably wanted one more words than a bourbon we've ever had and. And it's just an unbelievable thing, now sold out on our end. So if there's any bottles out there, anybody wants, you ought to grab them because we have no more. But it's a gorgeous whiskey. And it was a Kentucky bourbon, 13 years old, had been in a sherry cask for seven years. But it was seven years. It was sherry concentrate. It was so thick with sherry. You could drink it, but it wasn't beautiful. But we found one bourbon, and in a really rich inventory, we found one bourbon, a 10-year-old, that we could blend with that and pull it back a little bit that made it into a delicious, unbelievable thing. One best-furnished bourbon in a number of competitions, and we had one. So if we hadn't had that one,

That wouldn't have happened. Oh, what a story. That's great. But being able to identify that one and, and work with it to make that happen. Cause I've got a bottle of your sherry cask and it is delightful.

It's a wonderful thing. I had a little drink of it earlier today. I had a little sip. I've taken small sips cause we are down to, you know, it's gone.

I've got one more little question for him, Todd, and then I'll give it back to you. So, uh, we've seen the seven and 15, and then we've seen the eight and 15 now, and then we've got another seven and 15 coming. Is that correct?

It'll probably be, it'll, it'll stay in eight and 15.

So the 15 remains 15 because it's what containerized to stop the aging process.

Yep. Okay. That's what I was curious about. Yeah. All right. So it'll be kind of like batch two then of the eight and 15. Yep. Basically we don't really have a way to do the batches except the triple cask, which we'll get into later, but.

We're, we're figuring stuff out at that time. I mean, that was the second bottle we ever did. We're still figuring things out on our labels. So that one didn't end up with a batch spot on it, but other ones since then have, and that's just kind of the way it's turned out.

That's all right. Elijah Craig barrel proof is still trying to figure out their batch numbers. So you're fine.

We probably will want to keep that eight and 15 just rolling, but we won't guarantee that there won't be a little nine in there. Uh, but, uh, but we think we don't, we shouldn't just spin the numbers every time, you know, pick a number and try and make it consistent for people and make sure what's in that bottle is, is going to be that or better. Uh, and, uh, and that the flavor, um, is, is optimized.

All right folks, we're going to take a short break. We're going to continue sipping on this, uh, private stock. And when we come back, we have another fine expression from 15 stars that we've not had on the show before. So I'm pretty excited about it. So folks stick around. Few things pair better together than a fine whiskey and a premium cigar. And Smokey's Lifestyle Cigars are where flavor and craftsmanship meet. Their exclusive collection is meticulously hand-rolled from aged tobacco sourced from the Dominican Republic. Revel in the artistry that only decades of experience can bring. The owner, with over 10 years of cigar mastery, curates blends that capture the essence of family tradition and innovation. Embrace the journey and indulge in a harmonious symphony of Smokey's Lifestyle Cigars, an experience truly beyond compare. Find out more at SmokeysLifestyleCigar.com. When you are traveling the Bourbon Trail, location and comfort is everything. That's why I recommend making the Hill House Bed and Breakfast your home away from home. Located in the heart of Bourbon Country, the Hill House Bed and Breakfast is less than 5 minutes from the Maker's Mark Distillery in Loretto, Kentucky, giving you easy access to the Bardstown Distilleries and all points of the Bourbon Trail. The owners, Cheryl and Jim, offer four comfortable and cozy rooms along with a gourmet hot plated breakfast every single morning. And, when you return from a long day of fun, it's time to enjoy a bit of the Bourbon Trail nightlife. Relax on the large outdoor patio complete with a blazing chiminea and solo stove. Or, curl up on the sofa and chairs, put a record on the turntable and relax with snacks and fruit in front of the gas fireplace. An evening at the Hill House is a perfect time to raise a bourbon glass full of cheer in the company of family and friends. We know you'll enjoy your stay at the Hill House Bed and Breakfast as much as we did. Find out more at thehillhousekontucky.com. All right, listeners, so we are back. It's the second half of the 15 Stars episode. We're reviewing a couple of whiskeys from them, one of which we've never had on the show before. We've got Rick and Ricky Johnson in with us tonight, and we've got the second pour in our glass. So Rick or Ricky, whichever one you choose, would you like to tell us what we're drinking in the second half here?

Yeah, you guys are sipping on the triple cask two. So a blend of three different cask finished bourbons. A little complicated to explain, but we blend the bourbons together, this one age eight and 16 years, blend those two together and then finish them in those casks simultaneously. and then blend them back together. So basically two rounds of blending, but this triple cask two features cognac, rum and apple brandy casks. So a slight deviation from the first, which was cognac, rum and port. That port got replaced with apple brandy to bring out a few different flavors, but a 103 proof and a really, really sweet and smooth set.

So are you, do you talk about where the barrels came from in specifically? Are they, are they local?

Yeah, they might be. Yeah. Yeah. Two Kentucky bourbons. And it really is amazing. I mean, it's a, this is a, I mean, it's a fruity, elegant, still rich. Uh, it's amazing. The difference in the flavor that just. I guess there is a different blend here too, but the difference in the apple brandy versus the port in that blend. I mean, it's a small tweak, and we find this true in blending. It really is that sometimes it's a very small thing. In some ways in blending, it can be a lot smaller than that. Sometimes just a few percentage of something drastically change it. But to drop that port out and put that apple brandy in, Uh, you know, made a, made a drastic difference. We think this is really elegant whiskey. We love this. We love to suggest it.

Now, do you guys do any experimentation in advance of the larger batches of things like this, or do you pretty much go for it? What do you mean by that? Do you do like a, uh, cause I don't, I don't know how long you, you do your secondary finishes, but let's say it's six months or so, or whatever the time period is. Do you try it first in like a one barrel batch and just see how it goes? And then you go for the production run or do you just go for it?

No, so the the way that we have it structured, we've got a bunch of stuff because we we've had different cast finished bourbons before. But I mean, we don't know what our stuff's going to be like in them. So we put a group of things in various different barrels, whether that's Sherry port. vino de naranja barrels, rum barrels, and we've got all those aging at once. And so kind of the same way we pick products to blend in our non-finished blends, we have a variety of things being finished that we can pick from to include so it's not necessarily like we don't buy strictly the barrels that the cognac rum and apple brandy that this triple cask is done and for this product they were they were just chosen out of an array of like 11 different finishing barrels that we have going at the moment

And I think it'd be fair to say we don't, there's no just go for it. I mean, we know where it's going to end up because we've taken, we've got these barrel samples, right? And we have over a long period of time blended barrel samples. And we take a mix of, you know, we don't just, if we know we're going to be using a group of barrels, we're not just using a sample out of one barrel. We're getting sample out of several of those barrels. blending those samples together so that we're sure we've got a representative sample of what a batch will be. It's a targeted approach. We don't just put it together and see where it would be. This is what we call, as Ricky was talking, it's double blended. As Ricky was saying, this wasn't a product we thought we were going to do at the beginning. In other words, when we put it in those finishing barrels, we have no idea what we're gonna do with those finishing barrels. And we have a wide variety of finishing barrels sitting in Kentucky right now that are anywhere from, I don't know, probably the youngest ones over a year sitting there and probably up to three years now. So all of them, everything, I don't even know if we got anything as young as a year, Ricky, I don't remember.

Did it be close?

Yeah, but it's probably over a year and probably at least three years, maybe even a little more. Uh, I think there are, there's like a, a few that are like February. Yeah. Yeah. But so, so again, we don't know where we're headed when we do this. What we know is we want some flavor. And then and so then we blend these two whiskies together and we find a whiskey we really love and then we put it in these casts and then here they go right and we'll see where they end up and then when it comes time to put together the triple cast that we've done. We really are just pulling out of those barrels, pulling barrel samples, and then working through it and blending it. So it isn't like it's predetermined and we have these barrels and we put these things in it and then we just blend it together. We actually have a whiskey we love, we put it in a finishing barrel, and then we pull samples out of all of those and we say, what flavors optimize best together? And again, we're not trying to push it somewhere. We don't have any forethought into where it's going. Where does it express something really, really unique and unusual? And that's where we go with it.

And for instance, on this triple cask too, interestingly enough, We did the same, so the same process for triple cask one, and we didn't end up in the triple cask one using all of the cognac barrels that we were finishing in at the time. And so one of the cognac barrels that's in triple cask two was intended for triple cask one, so it ended up being like two and a half years finished. And so because of that, obviously it got a decent amount of flavor from that barrel. And so the, like we said, we go through another round of blending when we're blending the finishing barrels back together. So that cognac ended up not needing to be quite as big of a part of the blend because of those strong flavors that it had, but contributed incredibly nicely to the final product.

Wow. Wow. That's great. I bet your spreadsheet is crazy. It's probably an amazing thing to look at your Excel spreadsheet with all this stuff on it. It's kind of fun. It's kind of fun.

It's getting harder to handle though, every day.

I was just going to say, is there any, was there any temptation to call this a cigar blend? Cause that seems to be a, one of those catchy, catchy type things that's out there.

Whenever we're at shows, when we're tasting it around, it shows, uh, we get guys saying that a good amount. They're like, Oh, this is your cigar blender.

You should call this a cigar blend. Especially with the first triple cast triple cast one with that port. It was a flavor was it is a flavor bond a bomb. And we're down to, I think, TripleCast 1. I think I looked at our inventory sheet. I think we have less than 20 cases of that left in our inventory. So that will give us 30 days. And that one will be also gone, never to return. And we're on to TripleCast 2 here with this one. And we've got something we're going to look at potentially releasing here pretty soon. That's the next generation.

Nice. This is really fantastic. Todd, you got any notes for us here? What do you think? I do.

I'm getting like some, um, stone fruits and, uh, like a tropical, which is kind of nice. This is, uh, like left field from that first pour. I mean, I know it's got pretty much the same type of bourbons in that in the same ages, but this is, uh, a whole new ball game here. It's really nice.

Like a hit of cocoa butter.

Yeah.

Still getting a little bit of that banana too. Just a hint. Yep.

This one I always find evolves a lot and very quickly as it sits in your glass. Like in the beginning, when it was more fresh poor, I was getting a lot of those like dessert fruit notes, like blackberry pie or raspberry, dark chocolate sort of notes. And now I find that that oak is poking its head out a little more, especially on the nose, where getting a little more of that, you know, aged wood, seasoned oak. flavor coming out and balancing kind of with those sweet notes. It's a really interesting thing and you know the fun thing about the triple casks are I love, everybody likes to guess like where they're picking out, not guess, but say where they're picking out the different cast flavors at like, oh, the cognacs on the nose, apple brandy is on the palette and the rums on the finish. And the cool part is that everybody has a different answer. You know, I say one thing and then somebody else says the complete opposite thing. And the cool part is we're both right.

Yeah. Everybody has a different nose and palette and things like, like I was mentioning earlier, I personally, I don't really pick up banana notes. It's just not one of the things that I'm aware of when I'm, when I'm tasting a whiskey. And on this one, I really get this, uh, this kind of coconut cake kind of, uh, and I don't know where that comes from, but yeah, I can, I can taste that a little bit.

That's one of those where, yeah, yeah, and that's the funny thing is that somebody will say something like that, and I'll have never thought of that before, but I definitely see where you're coming from on that.

Yeah, it is kind of fun that Rick and I'll do that when we're tasting them together. We don't, and we don't make our, you know, again, kind of letting the whiskeys be their best, and we don't really go through the flavors while we're putting them together, and while we're blending, and while we're optimizing that whiskey, we're really just saying, what tastes the best, right? When you go through there, what tastes the best? And then when we do our tasting notes, so we're first just finding where we think it just raw flavor, what tastes the best? And then we'll typically do a pour while we're trying to do tasting notes. And we'll do this, we'll do it separately, and then sit across the phone. And it is kind of fun where Ricky will pull something out or I'll pull something out and we'll say, wow, you know, I didn't, I wasn't thinking that, but wow. Yeah. I've got that kind of fun.

And once someone says one of those notes and it hits you, you're just like, Oh, that's what I was saying. That's so many times I've been thinking like, I can't figure out, I know that tastes, I can't figure it out. And then he'll say it and I'll be like, well, yeah, that's it. That's it.

So when you guys are, you said across the phone, but sometimes I imagine you're sitting across the table from each other too, right?

I mean, you do it in person and, and the blood and we all do in person, but really the tasting notes. I think every time we've done that on the phone where he's at his place, I'm here and you know, it's the end of the evening and we got a poor sitting there and there's no, we always do this. Not rushed, right? And just bourbon can't be rushed in any way. And so we don't blend it in a rush. We don't taste it in a rush. We don't do flavor notes. We don't do anything in a rush. We slow down. We take a bit of time. And typically for those he's sitting at his place, I'm sitting here, we've independently kind of completed a whole routine. We go through a routine that kind of identifies, you know, what we think we're pulling out of it. And then we do that. We typically do the tasting notes on the phone together. And it's kind of fun.

Before we forget, let's talk about MSRP on these two bottles. The eight and 15 private stock runs about

Yep. 139 SRP. And then the triple cast is 179 SRP.

179. Thank you. Now, it seems like NDPs have started to really pop up in the limelight. Do you guys feel like you're getting your moment in the sun these days? I'm sure when you've gone to... bourbon events and things like the first you guys distill and you're like no we were non-distilling producer and like they're kind of like oh so and then but do you feel like the like things have changed for ndps of late i think it has i mean i i think uh i'd say i'd answer that in two ways one i'd say

You know, we consider ourselves distillers in that, I mean, it happens at Bartstown Bourbon Company, right? They're a great partner for us. But I mean, we're shipping our grains down there. You know, we're working with them on that mix. We're producing the mash bills. We're directing what we do. Now, are we twisting the knobs? No, we aren't twisting the knobs. You know those guys are doing that and they're great at it we are wonderful partnership and we can't say enough about how we enjoy working with that team down there they are awesome but. But we are not buying on the product that is gonna five years old and under. where we've been distilling it you know that's that's got our handprints all over it including a sourcing the grains and shipping it down there so we're not buying it's not it's not like the old days of an mgp, you know they got seven mash bills that you can buy and somebody's buying one just buying one of their mash bills and so i miss people do that for sure. But that's not what we do, right? We're down there, you know, in the midst of it with the grains, with the mixes, with the, you know, with the mash bills, you know, with the, you know, with the fermentation process, right, with the yeast. So we're down in there trying to play a role there, but no, we don't own a distillery. But then, but beyond that, I do think I do think what people have come to realize is that the opportunity that you have in blending to bring wonderful spirits from a diversity of distilleries, you can get something you can't get out of a single distillery. We're conscious of that going forward. We may be forever more sourcing a portion of what we do. But even for what we distill, very different than the traditional distilleries of old, we're distilling over a dozen mashbills annually so that we keep that diversity of product. It includes those different corns, it includes different mashbills, it includes traditional mashbills. But I think that's what a lot of times if you use the opportunity, so everybody doesn't, but you have that opportunity as a non-distilling producer to have a richness of inventory that cannot otherwise be done. Now, the other part of this though, and the reason a major distiller won't do it, And they produce wonderful things, obviously, which we're using and which we love and which we like to drink, right? But you can't do this at giant scale. So back to kind of that early artisanship of Kentucky, right? There's a scale at which this works and which we can dial in and produce something that we think is just really exceptional and special. And there's a scale that that just doesn't work. So if you want to do it at giant scale, you're not going to do this.

So true. I mean, I agree completely. I mean, the Heaven Hills and Jim Beams and Wild Turkeys, they can only blend their own products. They can't blend each other's. They typically don't. And they're good, right?

They're really good.

They're really good, but they don't get that variety of inventory the way that you can. You've got sort of a...

But again, I'm not sure the world needs another one of them, right? And so if we come in and try and do what they do, I think you'd say we're just going to lose. That just isn't going to work. but we've got to come in and look at it at a different angle and do a different thing and do something that's special and do something that's got our handprints on it and do something that we think is special. I just don't think it works to open up another distillery or another operation that's doing it. These guys are great at what they do. They're great people. They do a great job. Are you going to start a fast food joint and go up against McDonald's and win? I don't think so.

So some of the greens that you've shipped down to, without giving away too much of your secrets, some of the grains you've shipped down to Bardstown, can you give us some insight on some of the varietals that you've chosen to put into some of your mash bills that have yet to read or release, something we can look forward to?

Well, we got something, Ricky, you want to talk just a little bit about what may be coming this summer, but it largely deals with these corns from our Black Jewel Popcorn Company. And so we've got bins full of really unique corns that we've grown for years and that we've got a rich, you know, a rich inventory of a special corns that we use on a popcorn company that are heirloom corns. And so, and they produce some really, really interesting flavors. And so, Ricky, you want to just talk about some of those maybe?

Yeah, so been distilling those heirloom corns for a little over five years now in a various different mash fields, like my dad said, and including a red, white and blue blend, I guess you could say the grains were blended together but distilled together. And that is some of our oldest product now, and we'll be going into a product that we feature mid, a little after middle of the year. So the first of our own distillate will be coming to market soon, which is very exciting. It's been a long time. It feels like it's been forever. But finally that time, and it will be coming in a little different package than our current lineup. It'll be in part of an extension of 15 stars that comes at a little more approachable price. So think in 59 to 79 in there, it'll be a blend still still feature the core tenants of 15 stars being blended flavor proofed and featuring those heirloom grains to to get better flavor. But we'll be coming in a slightly different package, a slightly different look, and a slightly different price range.

And what have you learned about popcorn varieties and their ability to contribute to whiskey production?

So one thing is, uh, we've learned that there are lots of different potential flavors. That's, that's kind of the biggest thing is the, it's really interesting to try because we did those red, white and blue corns. We distilled together and separately all in the same mash bill, like grain percentages. They're all a 70, 18, 12, where the 70% obviously is a corn. Um, And so really the variable there being the corns, and you can really tell a different flavor between each of them.

So yeah, unbelievable. And we don't distill any yellow popcorn, by the way, because we think it tastes a little bit like yellow corn. But so these are very different. Go ahead, Rick.

Yeah, so those different popcorns the the red and blue being a little more Having more earthy notes the white being really crisp and clean flavored Altogether, you know kind of a blend of those where it still gets that that crispness from the white but has the influence from the red and blue, but not quite to the extent that they do on their own. So really, yeah, really interesting and will give us a lot of opportunity to create unique things with them, because even though they're in the same mash bill, they don't taste the same.

Maybe we do this with you sometimes, get samples of each of those corns and just kind of walk through them with a group, you know, because they really are drastically different. And then it gives you these flavors for blending again, right? Again, we don't know where it'll end up getting used. but it gives you that palette of colors in some ways. If you're painting a painting, right, you need a palette with a lot of colors to get the blend to get it just right. And so it gives us a palette that honestly nobody else has got. These are unique proprietary corns. Fantastic.

So one other thing I noticed, you guys have really kind of expanded your footprint out in other states. Has that been just kind of By word of mouth, people want you to come to your state or do you guys have to do a lot of boots on the ground kind of thing?

It's a little of both. We get some calls and we're happy to respond to some calls if it's from the right folks. And then some of it we're knocking on some doors trying to say, OK, here's what we got. We don't know if there's a smart way to do this or not, to be honest. I mean, we're feeling our way through it. You just got to study. But we've got a lot of great partners out there. This business is so full of good people. We got some great partners in that distribution side. We were just talking to folks over the last couple of days, looking at 25, reviewing a plan, everything from Nebraska to Kansas to Massachusetts and Rhode Island and New Jersey and Georgia. We are having some fun doing that. We're developing a great team of people to help us with that. We just today, put out a request for interviews on a potential Northeast rep for us. So we're trying to build a team. And it's just a lot of blocking and tackling. I think we take it kind of like the Bourbons. We know we ought to be, you know, we don't know, we're not trying to push it. If it's the right time to go into a state and there's a good distributor there that wants to do it, we're happy to say yes. If it's time to wait a little bit, that's okay too.

You want to get overextended, right? Yeah.

I think there's no way for us to get, I guess the overextended part would be if we're not really able to support that market. We do need a distributor who is willing to commit a little bit to our brand and to talk about it. But, you know, we're not, with a bottle like this, right, that's in that, and we don't have Kentucky Stars outside Kentucky, so that $99 bottle is Kentucky only. So outside of Kentucky, our bourbons start at 139, the 8 and 15. And so it's 139 to 279. And so even when we enter a state, right, there's I mean, what percent of the liquor stores do we need to be in? It's maybe 15, 20% of the stores, right? Because there's a whole lot of stores that we don't need to support, that are just not going to sell a $200 bottle of whiskey on our regular. So that's a benefit for us today. Now, when we get into our $59, $69, $79 line, that's going to be different, right? Because that's going to be very much more approachable. That's going to open the door to 15 stars to a whole nother group of people. And we're excited about that, but yeah, that will really expand the market and there we're going to, we're going to need to provide some support in the market.

Sounds good. So, uh, you mentioned, uh, this sort of. Varietal release that's coming this summer. Anything else you guys are working on that people can look forward to?

Yeah, so a few things. A couple of, well, I guess they're all new products, but one of them I guess you could call Triple Cask 3, but won't come out as that. will be a blend of three different cask finishes, all related to each other. So that will be interesting, a fruity blend that I guess this you could definitely call a cigar blend. So you'll have to wait for that. That'll be actually our next release. We're planning on March 5th. as a release for that. So the next product, uh, three cask finished blend of bourbons, 15 and nine years old. Very good. Very good. And then working on my dad mentioned earlier, the, uh, a rye whiskey. So. will be coming out sometime this year with a higher aged rye. So, you know, our first west rye right now is six, seven and nine years old. So we're looking at kind of in the, I guess it'll be between eight and 14 years old. Oh, wow. Blend of rye whiskies featuring Three different from three different states, uh, just like our first West Rye. So three different states, four different, uh, batches of bourbon or not. Sorry. Right. Whiskey. And is, uh, that's actually what I'm working on first thing in the morning is finalizing that. So that'll be, uh, coming up here soon. It's tasting really good, really nice. Um, and we're. you know, we'll be finalizing the blend tomorrow and then testing it against some of that reference collection. So it gives us a good excuse to drink some other nice rye whiskeys in the process.

Yeah. Test it against that handy. Yeah. Yeah.

We got, we got some stuff on there.

Yep. Jim and I could be on your volunteer for your tasting panel. It is a lot of fun.

And it is fun when you kind of get done, right? Or you think you're done, hopefully you're done, right? But you're toward that end where you've got something you really love. And then it really is kind of fun just to, again, sit back, take a little bit of time. pull some really special bottles out of that reference collection and you know you're tasting it against you know again what what distilleries are putting out is they're very very best and that that's fun right that's fun that's that's getting into some nuance that's really really a good time kind of going through so i gotta go through some work to get there but there's a prize at the end

Yeah. All right. Well, we'd like to give you guys an opportunity to let our listeners know where they can find you on social media, your website, maybe any events you have coming up in the near future, you're going to be attending. Uh, just give you a few seconds to sort of shout out and let everybody know where they can find you guys.

All right, sounds good. As for social media, we are at 15 Stars Bourbon on Instagram, 15 Stars Bourbon on Facebook. We do have a newsletter that I write myself and features important information, news about 15 Stars, product releases. If we do discounts, promotions, online only releases, newsletter only releases, a bunch of neat stuff. So you can sign up for that on our website as well. Um, and those are the places that you can learn about us. And as for events, I'll let my dad take that one.

Well, it depends on when you release this, but, uh, it probably won't be before Monday. The, the, what is that the 18th, uh, 19th, you know, January will be at the global bourbon society, uh, event, uh, talking to, talking to a great team down there. And of course, you know, what everybody ought to put on their calendar is back to that Kentucky bourbon festival. I mean, why not? Right. Absolutely. Quite an event. And, uh, and we'll be back down there and we had, uh, we had so much fun, but we'll try and be, uh, we'll be at event, hopefully, uh, near, near a lot of your listeners, uh, at some point in the next year. Oh, fantastic.

Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for appearing on the Bourbon Road again. We do consider you friends and we love it when you share your whiskey with us. You always bring some great expressions and we look forward to the next time we get to sit down with you and try a few things and certainly look forward to that day when you release your own distillate. So excited about that. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having us. All right. Well, you can find the bourbon road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook threads, all those things. Todd and I get together every single week. We released a show on Wednesdays. We'll have guests on like Rick and Ricky. We'll taste through some great, great expressions. Sometimes it's just Todd and I in a few bottles. We have a great time. Other times, you know, we'll have authors on or musicians or, you know, just about anybody who loves bourbon and loves to sit down with us and have a good time. We hope you'll tune into us every single week. The best way not to miss an episode is to scroll to the top of that app you're on, hit that subscribe button. That way every single week you will get a bell notification or alert saying that Jim and Todd have dropped another episode and we'll get you through that next that next long drive or that grass cutting or snow plowing or whatever it is that you do with your headphones on. We'd love to be a part of your day. But until the next time, we'll see you down the Bourbon Road.

you