436. Four Roses LE Shootout

Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon. And I'm your host, Todd Ritter.

We've got a great show for you today. So grab your favorite pour and join us.

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So today we've got my good friend Jeffrey Wack. Some of you may recognize that name. He and his cohorts, Darrell Stewart and Kelsey Dime, were on an episode a few months back when I kind of first started. I think you were on vacation, so I got all brave and decided to record an episode myself with those guys, and we had a great time. They've all been whiskey friends for quite some time. And Jeffrey was kind enough to come down from Cincinnati to join us. And so we've put together one of my infamous comparison tastings today. So welcome to the show, Jeffrey. All right. Thank you, Todd. You bet.

Jeffrey, glad to have you here. A couple of weeks ago, I came up to Cincinnati to drink beer. So it's good of you to come to. our area to drink some bourbon. Absolutely. Well, it's a pleasure to have you here. Todd, that episode that you recorded with these guys actually was great. For your first go, it was a pretty great episode.

I feel like I'm getting better with my interviewing skills. I don't know. I just felt very stony, I guess.

Just let it flow and, you know, you can edit out any goofball moments I make, you know, it's kind of the way it works. I think it's true. You can kind of get more relaxed over time and, you know, you start in the beginning, you're making all these notes and you got your questions on paper, you know, and you've got all these topics you want to hit. And then after about 50 or 60 or 100 episodes, you're like, nah, I got it.

I got it. It's all good.

Yeah. So, but anyway, yes, definitely a pleasure to have you here. And we are drinking some pretty fantastic bourbon today. What do you say?

Yeah, my good friend comes in, you bring out the big guns. You don't want to disappoint him with some bottom shelf stuff. So we're going to go through some of the Four Roses limited edition batches. So we've got the 2021, the 2022. The second half, we'll be diving into the 2023 and the 2024. And what's kind of fitting about this is just this past week, we had Brent Elliott from Four Roses here at the Corner Rick House. And that was a lot of fun. He said he's already been working on the 2025 version. They've also had a lot of new releases coming out recently. You may have seen them out there with the red labels and single barrels. And we got to try through all three of those and then just the regular single barrel, the 100-proof single barrel. Yeah, he's a great guy.

Yeah, he is. You know, I'm kind of wondering if you might be able to get like a first peek at that or something. Because I don't know if you remember, but back when we used to go to Old Forrester with Jackie Zeichen, we would get to taste the birthday bourbon before it was released. So maybe Brent would be kind enough to invite you over there.

You could ask, right? Just go knock on his door. He's a local. We had such a good time with you.

Can I come drink some bourbon with you?

But yeah, it was cool. I actually brought an older Four Roses that night from, I think, 1977 and shared that kind of afterwards and with quite a few folks. And yeah, we had a great turnout. I mean, when you bring in the big names, Brings a lot of members in. This was a full house that night.

Sure, absolutely. Yeah, this is going to be a great show. I'm looking forward to it because I don't think I've ever had an LE that I didn't fall in love with. I think they're all good. They're different, obviously. Some are better than others, but they're all really good and well-crafted. So I think this is going to be a great show. Todd, maybe a bonus pour at the end? Secret hidden bonus pour?

Yeah, I brought something, not for roses related, but just something I want to share with you guys. I kind of recreated something.

And if we get to it, we'll talk about it. If not, we'll hear about it.

We'll try it some other time or something. But Jeff, I know you guys do some interviews. Like you guys have become good friends with the Hard Truth, Brian Smith there at Hard Truth. And you recently had Tom Morrow from what's he?

We haven't had Tom on, but he has hopped in chat a few times. Had people on from Smoke Wagon, Aaron from Smoke Wagon a couple of months ago. So try to have at least someone on to interview at least once a month, once every other month. Yeah.

So kind of go over what your show is kind of like. Like the things you do for your show and like you guys have your Wednesday night lives and just kind of retell the folks that may have missed that first episode what your show is all about, I guess.

Yeah. So we have a YouTube channel called Hello Again Whiskey Friends. And it really began coming out of COVID where Kelsey, Darrell, and I started hopping on Zoom calls at least once a month and we were sharing flights with each other. At that time, too, I was doing a lot of reviews on like the Distiller app and putting a whole lot of time in that, just hundreds and hundreds of reviews over years. And it just got to the point where I was like, why am I not doing this for myself? And with Kelsey and Darrell and I already doing things monthly, it's like, let's just take this on the road and just start recording it. And we started on Instagram and started having our hangouts there. And then people started yelling at us for using Instagram. So then we went over to YouTube. And then ever since then, we come out with three long form videos every week. I'm now doing a short every day. And then every Wednesday we're doing a live show.

Oh, you're busy. You're busy, busy. I know. Wow. That's great. That's so awesome. And.

I'm kind of the unofficial executive producer for that show, which I think that just means I came up with a few good ideas for them to use, and they used them. So I do have a shirt that says executive producer Todd on the back.

That's official, if you know a shirt.

And let's see. I guess I have the wrench. So I'm an admin for their YouTube channel, in case it gets out of hand. It's all fun. Yeah, it is. It's a lot of fun. They have a lot of fun. They do a lot of blinds, which I think blinds are a lot of fun. It doesn't sound good on a podcast. We've talked about that oftentimes because people are like, I wonder what they're tasting. And then you've got to wait an hour. But when you're actually watching someone taste and facial expressions and things like that, it's a little different ball game.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

So let's get into 2021. All right. this precursor, this was like, uh, I came out with, you know, Instagram was a thing. And when I used, I used to use it a lot more often. Now I have rarely fine time, but, uh, this was my bourbon in the year for 2021. And this just edged out, um, Russell's 13 that year. This is when the first Russell's dropped.

So, well, that's saying a lot. I know. Yeah. All right. Four roses, limited edition, 2021. 114.2 proof.

And there were 14,880 bottles of that. I wonder if that includes, because I know they send some out to export in the smaller 700. I wonder if that's a separate count or anything. Should have remembered to ask Brent that. You know, I have a bottle of the 2019. That's a UK.

I can see what the bottle count is in there for you. I'll answer that question later, though. OK. Oh, that would be cool. Yeah.

So I couldn't find a really good breakdown of the recipe for this, but it does have the OBS-Q, which is the Q-strain is for floral notes and things like that. And then it also uses OBS-V, OES-V, and OES-K. Now, without getting too nerdy, with four roses, everyone knows that has a lot to do with their yeast strain and their mash bill and their low rye, their high rye, all that kind of stuff. And we'll just kind of leave it at that. Brett does it far much better than I could. But let's nose this.

All right. Yeah, I'm getting a little fruit, a little floral, a little spice.

I'm getting that like French vanilla, a lot of vanilla. Nice little spice. Getting like a strawberry taffy.

Oh, wow.

There you go.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah, the fruits are lighter, and this kind of a little bit more... The other day when we were doing an episode, it came up as white fruit. Now, I don't understand, you know, the classification of a white fruit, but I guess it's not a dark fruit, right?

Right. I was thinking white fruit, but the only one I think is like a grape.

But I guess a strawberry would be a white fruit, right? According to the, either light or dark or white or dark, I guess strawberry would be kind of a... Yeah.

Learn something new every single show. I know. I just love this nose.

Yeah.

I like that taffy note though. That's kind of spot on. And that's what's fun to bring in like some different folks and they bring their their repertoire and their wording to it. That's always, it's, you know, some people use like cereals or some people use candies and well, Jeffy's on the candy side.

And both their mash bills have a pretty decent component of rye in it. So even at their low rye mash bill, still 20%.

Yeah, he's even talking, I think one of the new recipes is going to be like a 45%. So I think a 51, 45, four, don't hold that, I know. I'm in, yeah. That's a high rye right there. Yeah.

Oh, I mean, the days when 12% of rye was high, those days were over. Long gone, yeah.

Long gone. So the barrels in this, I think, were 12 to 16 years old.

Right old age. Yeah, I'm ready to sip. Cheers. Cheers, John. Cheers. Oh my goodness, that is so good.

Oh yeah.

Spicy, creamy, spicy. A lot more citrus mid palette. Yeah. Really, really good. We all warmed up on an old early times, which kind of got the palette kind of broken and ready for the day. Yeah. This is making the palette sing though. Oh yeah. This is, uh, this is good.

Is that strawberry carrying over for you at all?

A little bit, but it gets taken over by a citrus. Yeah.

Getting like a raspberry citrusy. It's like it's changed from strawberry to raspberry a little bit maybe.

And the oak component, it's pretty impressive on this. I mean, it's definitely, you can tell this is an older whiskey. It's spent some time in the barrel. It gives it that nice depth. It's pulled off a lot of sweetness in the beginning in the barrel, I think, but then it just sat in there and just became this grand old bourbon. It's really good. Yeah.

I think one of the really cool things about Four Roses is, you know, If you visit Rick houses around here, they're like, you know, five, six, even step seven stories tall, but you go to Cox's Creek for all one, one story and six tiers. So. It's a very unique, and as Brent even said, it's kind of like they want, obviously you're going to get different notes and things out of each one, but they wanted, it kind of like helps with their consistency for what they're looking for for their base products and things like that.

Yeah. Because I mean, a company like Wild Turkey with their very tall rick houses has to be careful planning when they're pulling off the top or the bottom levels of those. Yeah, I would imagine this makes a lot easier. A lot like maybe either rotating barrels or temperature-controlled warehouses do, right? They kind of limit that a little bit.

Now, we will be talking about what we think is best at the end. We'll kind of give, yeah, like our top four. Once again, I'm pretty sure there will be no losers out of these four.

This is going to be tough to beat. This is going to be hard to beat. This is really good.

I love this. And like I said, for it to beat out Russell's 13 when it first dropped, it had to take something because I love that Russell's 13 a lot too.

Yeah, this is setting the bar pretty high. This is the other thing, too, with this particular tasting. I've owned the 2019. I've gotten samples of different ones, but I've never been in a spot where I could actually compare different years. So this whole flight is a brand new experience for me. Bought out the big guns for you.

Yeah, Todd's collection is quite deep. And being able to do something like this is pretty great, because these are not cheap bottles to start with, right, Todd?

Right. I think they're up to about $200 MSRP. And yeah, they're hard to find. I know, kind of funny, like they had that mellow moments club where that's kind of like the first night most folks can get those bottles. This past year, they didn't have that night, because Amzie actually invited me, because he's a Mellow Moments member and got to go up there. I did get to try it that night, but that was when members could pick it up. And I know they also did the email. If you get the Four Roses email newsletter type thing, you could try to sign up to win the chance to win one, which you're probably going up against a million bots and who knows what. And they didn't do that this year. I know they had some releases there at Four Roses and then I'm guessing the rest just went out.

The line used to run all the way down the street and nobody knew where to park and it was a real mess. I can remember probably 2019 maybe was the year where Jason came down and left my place at two in the morning to go over there and stand in line or something.

Oh, really? Oh, wow. That's funny.

So yeah, I mean, I think we're not there anymore. Things have changed a little bit, but still, I think the line definitely forms if there's going to be a bottle release, right? I mean, I would think.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they would like drop the whole mail thing, but maybe that was it. I'm sure people may be complaining like, I never win or, you know, like, are people using bots? You know, you hear that talk and you don't know. So maybe they're like, well, we'll stop doing it that way and just send them out to the wild and good luck finding one.

Send them out to the wild or at some point maybe release at the distillery. Yeah.

I know they did a couple of times.

Yeah. I think that there's some value in that. Certainly there's value and there's to the company to bring people into the distillery and go to the shop and do all that kind of stuff. So yeah, for sure. Especially in the off season, right? I mean, September is not the off season.

No. I've always thought it was cool. I know Heaven Hill, sometimes when you do a tour there, and especially if you do the Evan Williams experience, that they'll offer you, after it's over, a chance to buy something nice. rather than letting everybody just buy all of the special limited stuff that they'll set some back for folks that do some of the higher end tours and things.

Does Evan Williams still give the key out, like the little key they used to give? Remember that? They used to give you the key when you went on the tour and you could take the key up to the gift shop and you handed it to them and they would open the case and get you one of the good bottles out.

My experience there was kind of cheating. That was with, actually, Jason Colori we were just talking about. And it was like a special interview he had set up with Bernie Lubbers, Mr. Baldwin Bond and the Evan Hill ambassador. After we were over, they're like, hey, you can go get whatever. We're like, I was like, oh, cool. You know, I was like getting a candy store and I was the cameraman that day, which applied not a whole lot. Like I said, most of the setting up, I think I moved the camera like three times for like an hour long interview, but it was a lot of fun. Did you do it down in the speakeasy? Yep. That was great.

It's a neat place. Yeah. That's a fantastic whiskey. This one is definitely, I didn't save enough probably for a second visit, but I got a couple of drops. I think I can make it work. We have more. Yeah. Well, there's always that factor too. I don't want to be ungrateful. I'm pretty happy for the small amount that I did get. So, but yeah. All right. Well, I mean, this one is, uh, okay. This one's in first place so far. Right. All right. So why don't we move on to the next one, Todd? You're going to lead us through these bottles since they're all yours and you have notes.

Well, the internet has notes. That's the great thing. So the 22 version came out at 109 proof, 15,600 bottles. So a little bit of an increase. I've noticed they tend to like 14 and a half to about 16,000. So this one has, OESK, OESF, OESV. And one thing you'll notice if you're listening, it seems like there's always a couple of the bass ones, and then they might throw in an older, different component, like I think each of these.

Probably how you get some variation year to year, too.

So 14-year-old OESF, 14-year-old OESV, a 15-year-old OESK, and a 20-year-old OBSV. So 14 to 20 years. That's funny. They say the only 14,100 bottles are released there, but the bottle says 1,500. Maybe that's the thing. Maybe this 14,000 came to U.S. and that other thousand went to Europe? No, we might discover our answer to that question.

Yeah. I like that, that portion, the larger portion coming to the U S though. So I'm good with that. Right. Yep. All right. Let's check it out. Yep. Cheers y'all. Cheers. Cheers. Oh yeah. This is different for sure.

It's much more oak forward for me on the nose compared to the fruitiness that came out of the 2021. Yep. Yep.

This one's not as floral as the first one. Definitely more oak.

Oak and I'm getting a little bit of like a, oh, maybe like a nougat or something that would be kind of in that more candied realm.

Like a little bit of a, more of a caramel note, but more of a like a, almost a burnt caramel.

Nutty caramel thing? Yeah, nutty caramel. So I think like nougat, yeah. Got a lot of brown sugar on this too.

Yeah, definitely. A little bit of like a background root beer on this, just a tad.

Now just off nose, I'm liking 2021 a little better.

I think so too. The nose on the first one was like a clone.

Not that it smelled like clone, but that it hit you like clone. Right. It's like that one guy's got a little munch and he walks in the door and you can smell him from

Yeah, this is a little more spicy, kind of herbal, oaky, a little less fruity, a little less floral. Actually, a lot less floral, but there's still a little bit of fruit note there. Yeah.

I have to be honest. I did, hey Brent, what are you doing Sunday? You want to pop in while we do that? I did tell him what we were doing that comparison, but obviously, you know, he's a busy man.

I mean- Well, no, no, that's Sunday. Sundays are for family. I was going to say, yeah.

Distilling is not just his gig. I mean, let's face it, he's probably the biggest brand ambassador they have. All right. Jim, I was going to say, you ready to sip it? I see you over there chewing it. I'm used to it. Yeah. All right. Cheers.

Cheers. Yeah, this one's definitely got a little bit more of that dry bite to it. The oak is taking over a little bit. It's not bitter, but it is drier, I think.

Going in, though, I think this is what I would expect this release to taste like when you tell me there's 12 to 16-year-old bourbon in it. The first one just doesn't come off. that much old oak in it, whereas this one is just so oak forward and it's just hanging on the side of my tongue and just kind of overwhelming with that oak.

Do you think that floral fruity notes tend to hide a little bit of the oak? Maybe. The more floral and fruity a bourbon is, the more it tends to hide that deeper oak aspect. I don't know.

And where they pull those barrels might also play because, I mean, if you've seen some of their tier six pick single barrel picks out there, they tend to be in that 120 plus range and you'll see them even climb up into the 130s. But like the lower tiers, I mean, anywhere from 104 to 115 even, I mean, So maybe, I don't know, it'd be interesting to know what percentage of those tiers he gets for some of these. Let's try some tier six with a bunch of tier threes from different recipes. I mean, it's got to be kind of fun, like a little bit of a mad chemist lab where he's like, what am I going to try today?

This one might go a little bit better with my Smokey's Barber Pole Cigar. You know, I feel like it has that nice sort of cigar palate to it. It's not overly spicy, but it is a little more spicy.

But this is a little quicker than that first one too. Yeah. Kind of drops off a little bit.

Getting a lot of that similar citrus though on the finish. It's almost like an orange marmalade. Good call.

So, Jeff, another thing your channel is doing is you guys have a Patreon, and you guys have been doing some barrel picks out there. You want to talk a little bit about that experience? I know you guys just did a couple. You were here in Kentucky, what, three weeks, a month ago?

Yeah, just two, three weeks ago. We started a barrel program essentially in 2023, came out with our first one, and then in 2024, we had seven or eight different barrels that we chose, typically focusing on smaller distilleries if we can, either smaller distilleries or some NDPs. And then this year we got to go to Bardstown and pick a barrel just two, three weeks ago, Green River as well, which was a fabulous experience. I really love Green River and getting to tour the area there and also the fact that they essentially just came into the same buildings that were always there before. And, you know, Medley owned those for a while. They kind of walked us through the history, but I didn't know that they retook over that history and were making the whiskey in the same spot. I thought that was so cool.

Kind of a grand place. It really is. I mean, it's got tremendous history. And when you drive through that town, you, you definitely can see that it's, it's been making whiskey for a while. Yeah. Pretty cool stuff. What do you think about the most recent blends coming out from these guys? Do you think they've improved since the purchase from Bardstown Bourbon?

I don't know if they've improved. I mean, I've been impressed with them from the start, so I wasn't too surprised when Bardstown gobbled them up so quickly, the way that they were able to make a splash. But it does seem like Bardstown is letting them do their own thing.

But I'm wondering, because I've noticed, personally, I feel like it was always good whiskey. But there's something better about it now. And I'm just wondering if some of the expertise for Bardstown has been lent to them. I don't know. I'm just guessing. Does Danny get up there and play a little bit?

I don't know. I don't know. I just know that full proof that came out last year was really good. I love that.

Yeah.

Like for the price, it is one of the toughest ones to beat. I mean, $45 bucks, $117 proof. Is that right?

That's right. And then their weeded stuff at Cast Strength, it's going to be so good, especially when it gets just a couple more years on it, I think. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Well, this is really good.

Yeah.

It's really good. Again, like I said early on, I don't think I've had a bad LE. They're all good, but today it's all about which one's the best, right? Yeah. It's all about Jeff. Yeah.

All right, folks, we're going to take a little mini break, cleanse our palate a little bit, and we're going to come back and try the 2023 version and the 2024 version. So sit back and we'll be back after you listen to our sponsors.

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Yeah. But what do we have next? We're going to move to 2023. We're keeping them all close. This is a blend of 12, 14, 16, and there's a little bit of 25-year-old in this one. Oh, my. I know. So 40% of it is OESK recipe. 35% is OESV. 20% is actually, oh, sorry, 12-year OESV. 20% is 16 year OESV and 5% is that 25% OBSV. Like I said, we wouldn't get too nerdy, but I got a little information on some of that stuff. The final letter in each of those recipes is the yeast. So as you guys know, yeast V, they happen to put off like some delicate fruits. Yeast K, slight spice. Yeast O, richer fruits. Yeast Q, which I think Jim likes the Q. I do. They're your favorite. More floral. And then F tends to give a little more herbal type flavors and notes usually. But their match bills, B and E, you'll see those in those four letter combos. B is 60% corn, 35% rye, and 5% malted barley. And then the E is 75% corn, 20% rye, and 5% malted barley. But we just found out recently that they're going to have a third one. And it's going to be, I think Brent said 45% rye. Wow. Might be one of the highest rise out there, unless there's a 51.49, but I feel like you got to put a little malted barley in there to help things, right?

Well, if the match bill and the yeast bill are any indicator of this one, we expect it to be definitely a fruity pour. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah. Let's check it out. All right.

This one's 108 proof. 15,060 bottles on this one.

We're climbing with each one.

Does that mean the market's growing? Well, actually, it was $15,600 on the 22, I think. Oh, that's right. It was $1400 online, but $14,000 online, but then on OK. gonna birthday cake thing.

Yeah, I was gonna say this one's got a little bit of like a kind of a pastry shop a little bit.

Yeah, it's lighter and delicate compared to those first two.

Yeah. Not as oaky as I was expecting, you know, but those ages, like we talked about, you'd think it would be a big oaky nose with this one, especially with just a little sprig of a 25 year old, which Don't see that very often, but now it's. A little bit of raspberry.

And you know, I'm thinking it's like a raspberry filled jelly donut with like vanilla cream icing on it. It's actually giving me shades of like my wedding cake.

That would be a very similar description of that with the raspberry and the white cake and the cream.

That is really nice.

I kind of want to nose this one against the first one now because this has got a really nice nose.

Did you say there was no Q in this one, right? I'm pretty sure there was no Q in this one.

K and three V's. And three V's, yeah. Varying ages and things. So with the K, like I said, slight spice and then the V, delicate fruit. All right, I'm ready to try this. Cheers. Cheers.

Oh yeah. This is more upfront. Very nice.

Now this is one of those anniversary pours. I guess every five years you've even got the 130th release, which was, I guess that'd have been 2007.

18, maybe it would have been, this is 23. So that makes sense. Right. Math. Is that right? Is it 18? Is it that long ago? I think so. Oh my gosh.

This is the 130th 50th anniversary.

135th. I like this one a lot.

Yeah. This is a soft zipper.

Yep.

And the fruits on this one are just gorgeous. It's almost like the front of the palette. It's almost like you're just biting into the fruit and going through the skin. But by the time you get to the finish, it's like just juicy permeates.

Yeah. This one sticks around a bit. I like it a lot. Go back to the nose. I mean, it's, it's nice. It's not got a huge floral note, just a very light, uh, mostly the fruit note. Are you picking up that citrus again?

Not yet. I'm not getting any detection of that citrus on the nose or the finish like I did on the first two.

See, I'm still getting a little on the finish, but I might even turned over to like lemon zest kind of thing rather than the orange marmalade you were talking about.

I'm just wondering what 25 year barrel brought to the game, you know, barrels, it would have been barrels, but I wonder what the 25 year barrels brought to the game here. Cause I'm not feeling this like over oak situation here.

I guess just some complexity maybe. On the finish, there is a, a darker oak that presents itself on the nose or anywhere else in the experience. That's probably where I would start to believe that there's something real old in there.

You think that's where we're getting the finish from the lengthy finish from. It's just walking through the warehouse. Oh, we got some 25 year old barrels here. Let's try it.

It's gotta be fun. I don't know. 25 years of thieving. I wonder how much of it's left.

Yeah, that's true. You know, I mean, let's face it. If I was in the job, I think there'd be shiny spots where I leaned over the barrel. Right. A lot of holes where you drilled in.

Buckle marks. A lot of holes in it where you drilled in it, yeah.

I always had the theory that Angel's share was a myth, you know, just all the theft over the years. Right, right.

Yeah, I know when you go to like a warehouse to pick barrels and you look and you look up at one and it's got like 25 plugs in it and you're like, okay.

There's a reason for that, right?

There's a reason that that's been tapped 25 times.

So how many barrel pick experiences have you guys done now? You said about eight or nine? Or even, you're in double digits, right?

We've probably done eight to 10 now for, officially for the channel with our names on them. And then just everybody else has been so gracious bringing us on so many different experiences too. So it does seem like usually getting the crack at 10 to 15 experiences a year.

Yeah, and then one of the guys you guys do picks with on occasion is he's a longtime roadie and been on the show a few times, and that's Dusty Dan Trout. So he's got his own Patreon, and you guys kind of split the barrel to help move those things. So what's been maybe your favorite barrel picking experience? I think I know what it's going to be, because I went on that one. I didn't go on your all's, per se, but I went on one with you at this place. That's just my guess. So I might be wrong.

Oh man, that's a hard, hard question. I guess it usually depends on... All the experiences are a little different. Some places you roll up and they just give you the four samples and it just is what it is, take it or leave it. Whereas other ones just take the time to get to know you and kind of spoil you throughout the day. So the one that still sticks in my mind quite a bit is our experience at Backbone.

Okay. So that's not where I was going. You know where I was probably guessing.

I knew you were, I had a feeling where you were going. So I have a little bit of a change up. You can go back to that one. So tell us about that one. Over at Backbone, I mean, Nolan was just so excited to share all these things with us. And even before we got to the point where we were supposed to be, like, talking about what we're actually going to be picking, I think he wanted us to try, like, eight things. And then all of a sudden, like, you know, have that realization, like, oh, I didn't pace myself for this. Like, I didn't realize what I was getting into before I got into it. And then all of a sudden he hands you a drill and he's like, all right, go start drilling in those barrels now, too.

And it's like, why did we try those eight things first?

But that whole day, I think we were there three, four hours, and we ended up walking away with three barrels. Wow. And we were only supposed to pick one.

Walking or stumbling? Debatable, debatable.

So is palate fatigue a real thing for you? You know, I usually don't experience that too much. I think where if I do have palate fatigue, the main thing that I lose is not necessarily flavor, but proof. I just lose the whole spectrum of if it's high proof, low proof, anything like that.

I don't feel like I lose my ability to discern a decent whiskey or pick up notes. I think what happens is I get silly.

That's kind of what happens, right?

You get a little bit like you're having too much fun.

I was going to say, and everything's good. Oh, this is the best thing I've ever had. This is it. This is it. This is the one.

Yeah.

But so tell us a little bit about Backbone. It's in Cincinnati, right?

So Backbone is actually in Indianapolis.

That's right.

traditionally is offering stuff from Indiana, from MGP. So I've been drinking Backbone, gosh, since probably like 2018. It was one of my first things that I fell in love with. So that was the other reason that that barrel experience sticks out for me. Because when we were there, finally, after six years of loving the brand, it's like, oh, we get to pick our own Backbone. This is cool.

And they've got a nice catalog of, like, have you seen 17-year barrels? And yeah, I think, what did you guys pick? No, you picked a couple from there, right?

So we ended up picking a five-year rye, a five-year bourbon that tasted on its way to eight years. It was amazing. And then an eight-year 21% rye. OK. So that was a good trio of barrels. But he does offer sometimes the 17-year. I think when they do do that, it's the Canadian rise because when they have those 17 years in. But sometimes they get up to 10 years. I think it's like the oldest backbone I've had, maybe 12.

Very reasonably priced too. It's one of those that's not, I mean, some NDPs push those same age barrels a little higher or, you know, bottles out there a little higher, but there's, there's a very reasonable and there's a few NDPs out there that do that, but I appreciate that.

All right. Well, this was another winter, winter, winter chicken dinner. What do you say we move on to number four? Let's do it. All right. This is a 2024.

This is a combination of 12-year, 15, 16, and 20-year-old bourbons. 31% is the OBSV recipe. That's 12-year. 23% is the OESK 15-year. 39% is the OESF 16-year. So I think that's the first OESF we've had in all these. So listen in or do a deep dive. It's kind of like there's usually a base of two or three, and then they'll kind of switch that fourth component up. Or even like that last one, there was two of the same recipe, but it was different years. And then lastly, once again, the oldest suburban, the 20 year, is OBSV, and it's only 7%. So this one clocked in just a hair over the last one, 108.2. Around that same thing, I don't have the bottle on hand. So I think it's like 15,000, 16,000 bottles.

Okay, cool. So refresh me here again a little bit. What was the one they threw in on this one?

The older one? Yeah. That's a 20 year old BSV recipe. So 60% corn, 35% rye, 5% malted barley. And then that V is the, the V yeast is that delicate fruit. So.

All right, let's check it out. Cheers. Cheers.

Okay, a lot different.

Yeah, it is. These are all very different from each other.

Yeah, it's kind of throwing me for a loop a little bit because that initial approach is just nothing what I expected it to be. Right. And it's happened that way with each of these glasses so far.

There's you said there's no F on this one at all.

Uh, no OESF. That was actually the biggest percentage. I'm definitely getting that.

So I'm getting this herbal note to it on the nose. Wish I'd have paid more attention when you're calling those out. I was like, I'm starting to get numb to all the, Oh, this, Oh, that.

Cause you know, Brent, he's a really funny guy and like so down to earth. If you ever get a chance to talk to him, he's even like, he's like, I know we do this, but there's part of this stuff. Like I just wish they would get rid of, you know, like just call it this instead of all the letters. But you know, I guess it's, it's kind of what they're known for. So, you know, they're not going to shy away from it, but he was really funny about it.

Yeah, I'm trying to, so I think on the last one that had an F in it, I was kind of getting that a little bit of that root beer note on it. Okay. I'm not getting that, but I'm getting like a different herbal note on this and I'm, I just can't put my finger on it.

I'm going to. I get like a cigar box a little bit. Like it's a little bit of like pipe tobacco. Like, yeah.

Yeah. Getting into more of a dry leaves, dryer herbs. I'm getting quite a bit of the citrus again too. So I am returning back to that, at least for the fruit profile of it. Yeah.

I do like this one. I, of course I like them. I do like it. Yeah. Just, just, just for the record, I like this one too. All right. I'm ready to go.

Cheers.

Oh, this one has a great texture.

Yeah, that's soft.

Definitely spicy herbal.

Yep.

Go back a second sip. Yeah, the ride just feels so much more pronounced on this one. Yeah.

Still a lot of fruits. Like I'm getting like a fruit medley kind of thing almost like little cherry little. apricot, plum. It's like, I don't want to say like the canned, what is the cocktail fruit? Because that's just crazy sweet. But yeah, there's a lot of different fruits going on that.

Yeah, my mind started going towards peaches and apricot before you even said that. Yeah. Yeah. White fruits.

We always say peaches and apricots and pears, you know, pears are not a stone fruit, but peaches and apricots certainly are. But I don't know, where do you draw the line between a white fruit and a dark fruit? When you're looking at the thing here, is that the difference between yeast V and yeast D, like the rich fruits or the more red or darker fruits?

You still, you mean? Yeah. Did I say, Oh, yeah.

I need glasses.

Oh, Oh, not D again. Too much alphabet.

Yeah. Good stuff. I love the texture on this one a lot.

Might have the best texture of all four. I agree.

And this is more at the back for me. Soaky. You get a nice upfront initial wash, but then it sort of sits in the back for me.

Kind of the least oak of the four, maybe, too. Or at least the last two.

I think it's there, but yeah, it's kind of. It's almost like the sweetness carries back, and you don't get that dryness.

It's not the star of the show.

A more chest hug in this one. Despite its silkiness. Yeah. Wow. Surprise, surprise. 24, huh? 2024. 2024.

If you're able to find one out there in the wild, it would probably be this one, I would say. And I know, I know they probably have the 2020, if you happen to be at Four Roses, they'll have that at the bar. And it's usually only like 30 a pour, which pretty decent. It's their own stuff. So they want you to try it. So not too bad of a price for that. Whereas if you went to more like a bourbon bar and say Louisville, Lexington, or any other big city, it's probably, I'd say 50, 60, kind of very, maybe a little higher, but well worth trying, I think.

Yeah, I think this one is, there's a little bit of leather in this one too. And I would even go to tobacco, but I would say if I'm going to lean towards tobacco, it'd have to be like a lighter kind of tobacco. Um, if we're going chewing tobacco or something, you know, not, not, not something deep, like a red man, but we get some of the light, like a beach nut. I don't know. It's been a while since I put chewing tobacco in my mouth, but, um, it's not, it's not like really deep, rich tobacco. Yeah.

I mean, most of the flavors on this one are just delicate. Yeah. Comparatively.

Yeah.

It's really good.

Yeah.

Really good. I've said that before, by the way. I think I got mine. Are we going to do the bonus pour? I can't remember. Do we do the bonus pour after we score these? We definitely do it before we score them. It gives us more time to think.

We usually sip and ponder.

Definitely. Let's do the bonus pour.

It looks like you have it already in the glass, so let's do it. So this is my recreation of my winning Blendageddon blend that 2021 with, we've talked about Jason before, Jason Collori at the Mashing Drum. He has a big contest every year. And in fact, our, Jeffrey Wack is in the finals. Is he doing it this coming week or in two weeks? I'm not sure when he's doing it. I know he's been busy.

He's usually coordinating the judges that he tries to get on to.

Three other finalists and then two wild cards?

What did he end up doing? Only one of the wild cards got to move forward. Okay, so there's five finalists then. There's five finalists and Darrell and I are two of the five.

Yes, Darrell is also one of his cohorts on his channel. So yeah, I've been wanting to recreate this and it took a while to get one of the components not cheap, but basically what this was is I took all the Elijah Craig barrel proofs from 2020, which all three of those were outstanding on their own. That was, I mean, not counting pirate bottles, probably one of those great years for Elijah Craig barrel proofs, like overall, like some of the ones like now you get a really good one and maybe, you know, two solid ones. It's kind of like that. I think you guys even did a little, We foray into talking about the Elijah Craigs, right? Yeah.

Yeah, we sat down and meticulously graded every Elijah Craig barrel proof batch we could get our hands on. So all of the ABC batches since 2017, and we worked in now two of the pirate batches. So I have this official list of my rankings of all, what, 25 of those batches in between then. Yeah, I think I even sent you guys a couple of those maybe.

But yeah, that's one of the real cool things about these guys is they actually have a huge Excel spreadsheet of all their reviews. You guys do a 100-point scale, correct?

We do a 100-point scale. It's really based on 10 different questions about the whiskey. So we try to have two things about the nose, two things about the front of the palate, mid palate, finish. Then we get into the balance and then also have a little bit of an equalizer when it comes to value. just on how emotionally that, you know, how'd that make you feel paying for that. And then that helps us then see the differentiation in all the different whiskeys that we do. And whenever we come across something that scores, let's say then 85 or higher, that means half the metrics had to be a nine, which means it's standing out, like clearly something's standing out. So that's when we start escalating our talk track about that particular whisky.

And this spreadsheet is available to your listeners? Or your viewers, I should say?

It is. I keep updating it and sharing the link with people so that they can go through and scan through it. I think there's probably like 600 entries in there at this point. Wow. Fantastic. So it just keeps adding up. Yay.

All right, Todd, you are up to bat. Oh, well, then I have one, actually one more component to those Elijah Craig barrel proofs. There is some Dusty in here, and that's what kind of gave it uniqueness. And that's a Tenure Bottled and Bind Heaven Hill, but this one's from the 80s. Oh. And so this is actually version 2.0 because the first time I did it was an 86 proof Tenure Heaven Hill Bottled and Bind that was an export. And that's the one. That's the one bottle bonds, if you see an export, like they can actually send a bottom bond at 86 proof over there. They'll be followed that proof. So this one is a hundred proof American version. So it's a little different. I will never know how different because. Before the finals of Blendageddon even hit, when I won that night, I didn't even have a pour to celebrate. I had shared it with Jason, and then Fred Minick is typically one of the finalist judges, and then Matt Porter, ADHD Whiskey is also. Here I am, like, I won, I won. And all these people are congratulating me through the live thread. And I had none to try myself. But it's a great experience. I know you guys, back in the day, actually, Jim and his former co-host Mike had a blend contest. And I actually came in second in that one.

So you've got some skills. You got some skills.

Last time I did, I was out in the first round. So, but it's fun. But let's, yeah, let's try this. So I'm up first. Is that what we said?

Okay.

So my fourth place is going to be the 2022. Yeah. That was the one that kind of like, I was looking for a little more finish. It just kind of dropped off really quick. I mean, obviously still good. The nose wasn't as pronounced as these other threes as well to me. So that's kind of why, yeah, a fourth place with like an asterisk beside it. I mean, it's still a great bottle.

Yeah, so for me, I agree with you completely. I think the fourth place choice for me was very clear on this. Second and third are a little, it's a little foggy. I'm gonna stress a little bit trying to pick those two, but definitely I agree with you. The 2022 was my fourth place.

All right. I'll be the outlier here. I'm going with the 2024. Oh, okay. So little, as I was saying, just a little more delicate than the other three. It didn't have a stick out moment for me compared to the other ones where I got something to hang my head on.

Okay.

Fair enough. Yep. All right.

So my, Third place is going to be the 2023. And it's hard for me at this point to tell you exactly why, but I feel like my first place choice, which I'm not revealing yet, was clear to me. All right. My fourth place choice was clear to me, but my second and my third were a little tough. And so this choice was hard for me to make, but the 2023 takes my third place.

All right, Jeffrey, I'm going with the 2022 as my third. OK, so the oak on the 2022 I do love, but just wasn't getting much else behind it. So that's where I love that oak. I love that profile, but. was missing some of the big bold red fruits that we'll talk about later.

All right.

Todd? All right. I'm going to agree with my co-host. I went with the 2023 as my third place. All right. Yeah. Again, great pour. Just didn't tick my boxes the way that the first two did, I think. So different day, different time. That may have ticked my boxes a little better than some of the others. I mean, that's what's fun. I mean, we could do this maybe six months from now. come up with a totally different impression. I don't know what I'm trying to say here, but we could try this six months from now and maybe totally get different impressions is what I was trying to say.

Yeah, absolutely.

Jeffrey, your number two. All right. 2023 for the number two on that one.

Anything that kept it from reaching the top?

I mean, the top one is just the combination of all the strong points of all three of them. But the third one with the 2023, it was the big bold fruits that did attract me to it compared to the other two.

My second place is going to be the 2024. outstanding, but I think you can see the trend. It looks like we're going to have a, maybe we'll see what Jim says, but it looks like we might have a. A number one overall, maybe. We'll see. All right, Jim, what you got?

The 2024 was definitely my second. It was good. I enjoyed it. I think there were some things that matched my target profile, which pushed it up the ladder a little bit. Things that made it, made me like that a little bit more. And that's kind of a, you know, it's a little bit arbitrary, right? Because it all depends on your individual palette. And for me, that kind of rose to the level, I think of number two for me. And, and two and three, like I said before, it was close. It was tough, but yeah. So the 2024 is my number two. So it's, I think it's unanimous for number one, right? Yeah. 2021. 2021 takes the cake. Literally.

Yeah. Really shown. Yeah. And yeah, I, I love it. Oh my goodness.

If you can score a bottle of the 2021 Ellie, that's a good, that's a good fetch right there. No doubt about it.

And I'll probably do something fun, like give away pours of all these.

Yeah.

Again, on the Brevin-Rode's page. Oh my goodness. I know. There you go. Wow. That's pretty awesome, Todd. It's been fun. Everybody's been loving that. I saw where Scott Eversol, he put a picture. And then I send a little extra stuff here and there. You just never know what I'm going to send.

Yeah.

That's what it's about. I know Jeffrey and them are big about doing, they send out pours a lot and they've shared bottles and things like that. Sharing is caring.

Sharing is caring and well, I have a lot of bourbon so I can share and care a lot. So let's turn our attention to this pour of yours. What about it? I haven't gotten into it yet.

Oh, you haven't? Okay. I've been sipping on it because I know what it's like.

That little bit of that fourth component that you put in there though does stick out on the nose and it just makes it, it doesn't smell like Elijah Craig barrel proof from the 2020 series because of that little bit of that fourth component.

And originally the 86 proof just had this wonderful nose. Um, and I want to say it was probably around that same time period, but like the palette was kind of, I mean, for a dusty, it didn't really shine to me. And I'm sure it was pre fire and all that stuff, but I mean, it was fine. But this hunter proof. It's really good on its own this time. And yeah, so I think this turned out really well.

Yeah, it's really good. Now, could you have added a little water to try and return that to the appropriate proof to match the previous recipe?

I guess I probably could have, but that's a lot of science I didn't want to do.

Yeah.

Okay. So I thought I'd just try as is and call it version 2.0. And Jason's got a Yes, he does two contests. One's American whiskey. And there's certain criteria. And actually, after I won it, he kicked out using Dusty's in it. So I was ruled 5.3, no longer using Dusty's. But the Lachy Craig barrel proofs are still a go. I mean, I don't know if there's a year on those and anything like that. But single barrel picks were kind of booted out. I think I've even said this before, he's trying to allow people to kind of be able to recreate that at home. It makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

And you, when you create a contest like that, you know, the rules kind of evolve over time.

And they definitely have.

Yeah. Which is fine. This is fantastic. This is extremely concentrated. What was the overall proof? Did you calculate the overall proof on this?

I haven't on this one. I, you know, it'd be pretty simple because I actually, it's like 25% of all four is kind of what I did on this. I would say upper 120s, probably. I feel like, Jeffrey, you might remember, I feel like there was one that had like a 135ish or something in the 2020s. And then there was one kind of actually kind of low, and then there was one kind of the middle. So I figured it's like 123. It may have dropped because of the Hunter Proofer. Yeah.

We literally just did the show a few months ago and I've already brain-dumped all that, so.

Right. I forgot it all.

But it turned out well.

Yeah. So, and who knows? Maybe I'll include a pour of this in the give out and I'm going to send Jeffrey home with some and I'll probably give out some of that. And like I said, his YouTube shows, when they do some giveaways, I'm always like, hey, I'll give some stuff away. So, like I said.

It's an interesting show, Todd. I know. I'm glad Jeffrey could come down.

Didn't have to roll out the really good bourbon carpet, but you know, I actually thought of this before he came down. So, you know, I've got like this, all these ideas of, you know, I'd look at my collection. I'm like, what can we... Compare now, we've done a Booker's comparison. We've done a stag comparison. We did a logic Craig Barrel proof comparison. And just varying years and the A's and the B's and things like that. So what's next? I don't know. Well, we did the blue corn one. So I'm working on the red corn one, I think. That blue corn one was a lot of fun.

Yeah. Yeah, I love doing the side-by-side comparisons. I certainly love scoring things for the end result. It seems to me like, did we figure out what the second place was kind of? So the first place was clearly the 2021 LE, no doubt. Who took second? Probably the 24.

You had 24 last though, didn't you?

Yeah, but both of you had second. I mean, you two are pretty locked up.

I don't know, it'd probably be a close. You'd have to do that thing where if you get points for however they finished, and that's math. And you know, we're not the best mathematicians on this show.

But Todd and I are both big Rye fans, right? So our palates are not all that different, I think. And so a lot of times we match up. Sometimes we haven't. I mean, in the past, we've not agreed on things. But today at Things, I think we were pretty close. Yeah.

Yeah. Jeffrey, you want to tell the folks how they can find you on YouTube or Facebook and or anything else out there?

Yeah. The three main places you can find us are going to be on YouTube, Hello Again Whiskey Friends, as well as Instagram. And then we also have a private Facebook group as well that anyone's welcome to join. Just got to answer a few questions and be cool.

Yeah. Well, definitely check these guys out. Uh, Jeffrey, you have a great palette. We really had a great time hanging out with you today and tasting through these bottles. Just so happens today was, uh, some, some high end bottles. Not everybody can pick up a Four Roses LE, but, uh, you know what? You can always find one at your local bourbon bar, right? I would say that it's fairly certain that if you've got a high end bourbon bar in your town, you can probably find a pour of some limited edition Four Roses. Rose's is great. They put together a quite a variety of flavors and their releases. They're single barrels or what are they around 40, $50? Is that about right? $40. Yeah.

About like that.

And you can get them in, you can get them in all the various, um, The single barrels anyway, get them in all the various recipes. So if you want to try the more fruity options or the spicier options or the herbal options, you can do that. Um, like I said earlier, I kind of like the cues.

So plus that small batch select is that's an outstanding bottle for. You know, 104 proof and I mean, it's 60, 70 bucks probably, I think. Yeah. 55, 60 in my area. Yeah.

You know what I want? I want them to bring back the black label with the red roses on it. You remember that? The 50 throwback label for four roses with the black label. And yeah, I would love to see a throwback bottle.

Really would.

Lots of fun.

Yeah.

Awesome. Well, you can find The Bourbon Road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, threads, all those things. Every week, Todd and I gather together. We get our microphones out and we make a show. Sometimes we'll have a guest on like Jeffrey. Sometimes it'll be somebody in the industry. Sometimes it's just a musician or an author or somebody like that. But we're always having fun. We're always drinking bourbon. We strive to, you know, Do the hard work to help you figure out what it is you should put on your bar. We hope you trust us for that and you'll join us every week. The best way not to miss an episode is to scroll to the top of that app you're on. Hit that subscribe button that way every single week. When Todd and I drop an episode, you'll get a notification letting you know that, hey, the boys at the Bourbon Road have dropped another one. and we can get you through that next sales call drive, that next trip back and forth to work, cutting the grass, whatever it is you do with your headphones on, we'd love to be a part of your day. But in the meantime, we'll see you down the Bourbon Road.

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