435. Blending Bourbon at J Mattingly 1845

Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon. And I'm your host, Todd Ritter.

We've got a great show for you today. So grab your favorite pour and join us.

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I used to run, so I could probably make it here in maybe like 10 minutes back in those days, but. It's feasible.

Yeah. And we have a guest with us today, Aaron Malali from Jade Madley, 1845 in Bourbon 30. And welcome back to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me and us back. Looking forward to talking about whiskey with you gentlemen. It's going to be great. So we're situated, what is this? Is this the northwest side of Frankfurt right across the street from Buffalo Trace?

So yeah, so we're on 20 Riley Road, as you mentioned, directly across the street from Trace. Right off of Wilkinson Boulevard. Yep. Thank you. Yeah. And yeah, and the last time we talked, we were in our old location in Georgetown, Kentucky, that was maybe 2,300 square feet. And now here we are in a 25,000 square foot building that we graciously expanded into.

A big upgrade here. I mean, you guys were building on this for quite a while before you were able to move here from Georgetown.

Yeah, no, I mean, we acquired the building, I believe, back in 21. But, you know, going through inspections, passing them and stuff like that just takes a while.

And then, yeah, a lot of improvements, too, because, you know, I'm a long life, Frank for Tony and pretty much. And this used to be like a long time ago. It used to be a car lot. And then before that, it was a state office building for quite some time, too.

I believe it became a car lot again and then the slash body shop. And then, yeah, we had to convert it into a functional distillery.

And so what's the name of this room we're in here, Aaron? We're kind of in the bowels of the building.

I would say the JMAT room, again, from the old days, or the Blend Your Own event room. But yeah, but basically we, you know, folks can come into here, you pick a station that has a set amount of barrels at it. And then you get paired with a whiskey blender. It's usually a Dakota, but sometimes Dan or myself or Leroy Bradley from the old place, Daniel Leticia will also jump in. It's a cool thing about me to craft distilleries. We all contribute. And then when you pick a station, you go through the various barrels at that station and then When you lock in on barrels that you like then the blender you're working with is going to help you Make a custom batch or blend just for you.

So we had how many stations down here? Three four stations each station has six barrels. Mm-hmm, and each station is a It's kind of a it's the same type of whiskey

Yes. Yeah. And so all the barrels at each station are the same kind of whiskey. So it's like four different mash bills, but they're all the same mash at each station. And then we're limited as to how much we can allow people to sample because it's about up to about one point seven five milliliters in total. So That's why a really important thing to do is talk to folks before they come down here and be like, hey, what kind of whiskey do you like? Not necessarily whiskey, but also like what kind of spirit? Do you like rum? Do you like tequila? Do you like something else in that way? What we can do is maybe figure out, OK, maybe this or this barrel won't speak to you. But maybe we can have a couple more attempts at constructing a blend. And therefore, you try that that way, too. So it's kind of no inner audience before we go through the process.

So the four stations we have here, you've got a particular, there's a light whiskey. And what are some of the like? There's a bourbon, there's a rye, and then there's another bourbon. So it's kind of, you know, obviously there's probably one of those four that's the most popular and then, you know, or just some folks come in here thinking, hey, I want to try something new.

Definitely bourbon is the most popular by virtue of we're in Kentucky and it's bourbon. But definitely see that quite often too, where like you just stated, somebody comes in and they want to like a rye. They've never had light whiskey and they're very curious about it kind of a thing. And the important thing is we can't cross like mash bills together either. So that's why you kind of have to commit to a station when you get there. But yeah, but I would say bourbon is definitely the most popular and then, but as you correctly stated, sometimes people are just, they just want to go out of their comfort zone and try something different, which love that when that happens. It's kind of cool showing people that there's, again, I love bourbon just as much as anybody else, but it's cool showing people there's just more than bourbon, you know?

Well, kind of the goal of this show, you know, to have you back on is last time we were together, episode 357, we came out to your facility in Georgetown. And on that visit, we kind of focused on the distillery. gift shop available bottles, those products you had on the shelf in the gift shop. And you've always been known for these one-off. And we still are. And you still are. And I think at that time we tried some of those, but they were those things which were available in your gift shop. We didn't really do any kind of blending, although we talked about it a little bit.

We explained the process, yes.

Exactly. But today we're going to do a deep dive into how Jay Mattingly executes their blending and what a visitor can expect when they come to the distillery here and try to open the window, open the shades a little bit and give people a view in.

So a few different, as you mentioned, things people can do is one, I mean, just like any other normal gift shop, we do samplings of what we have to offer in our gift shop. And then if we've already kind of explained the Blend Your Own event. But if somebody didn't want to necessarily do a sampling of up in the gift shop, but didn't want to fully commit to the Blend Your Own, we kind of have an intermediate. Where you could we have a station set up where you can go through just very single barrels of each mash have a little have a little nip of each and then. let's just say there was a barrel that really spoke to somebody, then they can purchase a bottle, but they're not obligated to at the same time. So. All right.

I was going to say, just a reminder, you want to kind of let the folks know about what your base what your base bourbons are. You know, it's been a while. So, yeah.

So we have our bourbon 30, 90 and 100 proofs. I would refer to those as like are definitely like your your go to. You're consistent. You're you're. I'm not trying to use this word in a bad way, but like your standard bourbons, you know, just our standard. Your daily drinkers. Yes. Yeah. Yep. And then pretty much most of what we do with the 1845 labels, the Jay Mattingly's are what we talked about last time when you were in Georgetown as well was our one off approaches. Now, however, since we've last talked in Georgetown, we did come up with a A J. Madden 1845 that's more of a coarse skew bourbon. You know, they're, they're done in batches and they're, how would I describe this? I would like to describe that bottle as like, uh, the, the consistent part of that is going to sound goofy, but, uh, controlled chaos. Um, uh, you know, basically we wanted to make a sipper, not a drinker, you know? So like something you wouldn't, you know, you take a sip of and be like, I got this profile. Then when you go to take another sip, you're like, Ooh, something a little different there. Another next step is something a little different. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So so that's that's the the basis behind that is, like I said, the controlled chaos and a good oak profile behind it. And obviously, those barrels also are going to go through our crafting process that we talked about last time, where we we take chard oak staves and apply them to the barrels and push the whiskey and make it our own. And then when we feel like the barrels are ready, then we put them together and Put control on the bottom.

So these six barrels that we're gonna work our way through today and Todd and I kind of had a Little meeting in the corner before we started and I think we decided we'd like to do this bourbon here. Yeah, and And so we're gonna be doing a bourbon today with these six barrels each one of these six barrels were drinking from or tasting from they are Almost the same proof. They're pretty close. They're within a very narrow range. Yes. So proof is really not part of the equation today too much. Maybe a little bit, but...

Proof is a weird thing in the industry because I don't understand why... I think it's an ego thing that people just, ooh, hazmat, I got to have it. Because proof doesn't dictate the quality of the whiskey at the end of the day. You got to get your textures and your aromas right. Like I said, it is what it is. If you really care about taking a really quality sip, those are what matter. Like I said, the crafting process that we do with our barrels, with the different types of staves that we paired with the barrels to amplify and push the whiskey how we want to push it, are going to make some very unique barrels. At the end of the day, what we're going to do is we're going to go through each barrel together and then we're going to make something that is a reflection of what you guys are looking for. Cause that's the whole point of this process is because just for example, if I, you know, if I blended whiskey for what I liked, we wouldn't sell any whiskey. I like stuff that like hammers my soul, you know?

But it's kind of like part of the journey for some folks, you know? I mean, you get into bourbon, you start with the lower proof stuff and then you're like, Oh, I want to try this. And then you get way up there and then, Oh no, I've gotten to that point where they're like, what we're going to try right now is kind of like that sweet spot, like 115, 118 proof for me, or sometimes even lower. I mean, there's just, yeah, no, it's good bourbon. It's good bourbon.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, neurologically, what matters is do we take a sip and enjoy it? Yeah. I mean, and, and, and yeah, and I'm with you too. Usually for me, like 114 and 119 is kind of like my sweet spot with a lot of whiskeys. But yeah, but at the end of the day, we want to just put something together that's going to speak to you guys.

I'm just saying when you get ready to blend that hammered soul rye.

Give us a call.

I'll let you know. Hammered soul rye. Like you just named it. That's pretty good way to explain what you like there, but that's your profile. You might sell a lot of those bottles. You might be surprised, Aaron. You never know.

I just like big bold profiles and you know me, rye whiskey is my favorite whiskey and that's what I would try to do it with if I was ever to do something like that.

We lean to the rye side just a little bit, well actually a lot.

That's why we also get along.

So you want to talk about the particular barrels? We're like Mash Bill and things like that. Right. Try this is.

Yeah. So we're I guess what we're going to do is when I guess we're going to we're going to go through the barrels at the station and then. analyze the profiles of what we're detecting. And these are all a little over seven year MGP, 75 corn, 21 rye, 4% malted barley, bourbon barrels, very tried and true mash that works very well by those guys up there. And, or just in general, as you notice, the industry kind of hovers around that ratio profile. And then And these barrels have also had different types of staves added to them to help push them to different profiles. Because what we don't want is we don't want you to go through this process. And it's like you're trying six barrels that are nearly identical to each other. We want some uniqueness behind this.

Yeah, which makes it vary from a true single barrel pick. Correct. If you do six barrels, it could be that one standout that you're going to pick.

A different ballgame where you can take two or three or even. That's the cool concept of blending is that you're not limiting yourself to what one barrel is telling you. By combining, now this is the part where we just kind of make stuff up as we go, is we find barrels that work together and then we kind of figure out maybe what ratios will work. But if you're only doing a single barrel, you're only getting what one barrel is telling you. By combining multiple barrels together, then therefore you get to elevate the ceiling of profiles you can create and make more creative whiskeys out of that.

That's amazing. I'm super ready. to do this. This is going to be fun. Well, let's just say, just for a matter of keeping things simple, we're not going to talk about specifically what the stave recipes are in each barrel. We'll just kind of assume for the moment that there are different stave recipes for each barrel.

Well, for the record, that's all I wouldn't tell you anyway. That's one of the few questions we don't answer.

Ah, there you go. Nice.

Top secret. I can read the codes, but I'm not going to tell you what they mean. You'd have to kill us. I know. Yeah, but I also don't want to do that, so.

All right. So what's in our first class? Which barrel? This is 1261. 1261. Yeah, 117 proof. All right.

1261, 117 proof. Now, for the record, I'm using the Glencairn glass, and these gentlemen are using kind of like a modified Glencairn, so I might smell things a little differently. OK. All right. Just want to throw that out there.

Jim, I know you don't get banana much, but this has got like some tropical notes to me.

I'm actually getting like an overripe banana, a little pina colada kind of on it, maybe.

So what's the common thread there?

Tropical notes is what I would... White fruit. White fruit. Okay. White fruit. Lovely. All right. Cool. Cheers. Cheers.

Sláinte. Wow, that is so just coding.

And that's a good start. And if I can encourage something while we're going through this, and for the listeners as well, is that the mouth feel and texture is very important. Because neurologically, biologically, we can actually only taste five things. most of what we think we're tasting is actually an aromatic. So therefore, if you really want to look at what I do as the head of whiskey butter for the company, I make edible perfume. But that perfume, but if it doesn't coat the palate correctly, then your brain is going to ignore what the nose is saying because you're going to hurt your mouth. Therefore, that's why texture is very important. Keep that in mind while you're taking these sips of these barrels and also where you're getting the hits, the front, the back, the mid.

Yeah, so this one sits a little more mid-palate for me. It has a little bit of a sizzle factor on the front of the tongue. A little bit.

Really rich, though. Like you said, mouth-coding.

It's chewy.

And Aaron's already said his favorite braille is the last one we're trying, so I'm like, I can't, I mean, this is a darn good start with this first braille, wow.

Yeah, this is really good. These are all going to be roughly, I'm looking across at all the samples you've poured. They're all about the same color. I mean, they're very close. They're all sort of this rich mahogany color. About very deep amber. Yeah.

Yep. I would agree. And yeah. And like I said, as you notice, the proof range is pretty similar, about 117 to 119 amongst the barrels.

So you do a lot of the blending for some of your releases here at the shop and things. So do you play around, like, this time I'm going to go for certain notes?

Yeah. How do you approach it, I guess? A couple different approaches. One is because, as you know, barrels are very sensitive to ambient conditions. So, for example, barometric pressure changes, temperature changes, humidity changes affect what's going on between the barrel and the distillate. So therefore, like this time of year, when it's cooler outside and you have a little more consistent conditions, maybe once a month, just go through the barrels, take notes on them. Therefore, like when a, cause we're in 17 states right now. So if one of our state distributors come in and they want to do a statewide distribution pick and they tell me what kind of profile they're looking for, I already have a good idea what barrels to work with, you know, kind of thing during the summer. it's a lot more chaotic. Barrels fluctuate a lot more because as we know, the conditions change a lot more. But yeah, but then also it's kind of knowing where these are going as well. Because for example, I mean, I grew up in northern, I grew up in Wisconsin. So basically, if I can bottle anything diabetic, it'll do great up there. If I'm thinking of, we just got it in North Carolina towards the end of last year. And being that there's a lot of tobacco farms out there, that's something people are used to taking in. If I can grab some tobacco profiles and plus they Folks out there tend to like a little tang in their barbecue, their slaw, and stuff like that. If I can get some tang, like acidity to the oak and tobacco profiles, it'll speak to the folks out there. That's a really unique way of approaching that.

So there are areas of the country that like a more spicy mix and some that like things a little more smoky.

Or just very sweet. Sweet. There's one state I won't mention that just likes bad whiskey in general. But yeah, we're like, you know, if you're thinking Texas, you know, they do a lot of big, bold, savory, barbecue-y kind of profiles, you know, so like, you know, profiles like that speak to that population. So it's really, so food and beverage culture is really, is an important component to kind of what we're thinking about, or for example, even Detroit. one of the sneaky, larger wine-consuming cities in the United States. So if you can make whiskeys that can speak to a wine palate, you know, if you're thinking Florida, you know, whiskeys that speak to rum and tequila palates, you know, so it's trying to think about where these are going. And also when we're doing this Blend Your Own event, when people come in here, that's why it's one of the first things I ask that any of us ask people is, where are you coming from? Wow. How can we make something that's going to speak to you?

I've never heard this before. This is really cool. I know. It's pretty cool because it makes me want to go every state, look for a J. Manueline, and you collect all the flavors kind of thing.

So it's like Baskin-Robbins. Well, I mean, when you look at food culture, I mean, the food culture exists because of practicality of where people live. And people make things certain ways because that's the way you've managed and preserved food and, as a result, or has worked with the climate that you're in. So therefore, people develop You know, like just things there. It's it's speaking to people through that. It's actually it's a familiar. It's finding something that's familiar. But also we want we don't want our whiskeys to be boring, something but something that will speak to the folks in where we're sending these and then also, you know, make it unique at the same time.

So I've got a nice mild chest hug setting in. The finish on this is really nice. Yeah. It's got a light bitter note, but only after you haven't sipped on it for several minutes, it starts to...

The tropical thing still going on in my palate. I mean, rich caramel, but there's like... That overripe banana thing.

So going well to go to what you just said about the banana thing. So that and also the bitter note you just mentioned that would make me think of like not like a like the banana itself, but more like like the ride, you know, so like there's that essence of banana, but there's that little bit of, you know, bitterness there that we kind of come with that. That's a good start.

Yeah, yeah, I think it is. You got good notes there. Scribe.

Uh, cause I'm so involved in the process. I'm like, and this is the way, if I do like single barrel picks, like, you know, my notes, I, they give you a nice little booklet to write in. I'm like, I look, I'm like, usually it's like, yes or no. Yeah.

So this one's got a yes for the record. Yeah. Well, and the thing is, like I said, and again, this is what I have to encourage people out here when we're doing one together to you is you kind of have to take that single barrel way of thinking and throw it out. I know. Because because we're because like you said, we're trying to find barrels that are going to work together because we're not limiting ourselves at one. But now if someone comes down here and does this event, if they just want a single barrel, we'll give it to them. Right. But at the end of the day, we want to try to. Like I said, go above what one barrel's telling you.

I've got in my head, I've got this idea that we want something that sort of forms the bass, you know, and then we want something else that comes in and maybe rounds that off a little bit. And then something else we bring in that gives it this out of the box note, something a little bit.

Right, that's my thought process. Something that kind of sits on the front palate. Like you said, this is kind of mid palate. And then something that I want the whole palate to just be bombarded by notes.

Pay attention listeners. You're going to be here someday. And when you're here, you want to know how to do this, I think. It's pretty cool. Make the most out of the visit. Yes, for sure.

And if you're working with me, I will put you through the ringer. All right, let's move on.

1189 is the next one.

Yes, that is correct. 1189.

This one's 119 proof.

Yeah, and also we are, as I mentioned earlier, we do have a bourbon 30, 90 and 100 proofs. Obviously we cut those down. Pretty much everything else we do is barrel proof. OK, right. Remember last time, I remember last when we had a chat, we had that was called Sunset Citrus, and that was a. What's in the 130s somewhere? Yeah, it was American light whiskey. But it literally drank like a cayenne pepper and a pineapple. That's fun. What a mix.

Yeah.

That actually made sense.

This one seems a little brighter on the nose. Yeah. This one, yeah, it's definitely a different nose. And the nose is not as, it doesn't have as big an impression as the last one had. Right. And that's part of having the lighter, brighter kind of.

I would almost describe it as like a hint of floral but not perfumey at the same time.

Yeah. Like a spring breeze of like honeysuckle or something. Yeah.

I'm ready for spring.

I am too. This winter's just taking a toll on me. Well, we'll probably have three more to go. So we're in Kentucky. Yeah, that's true.

That was good to say. It's getting colder.

Every time I think, every time in the, you know, I start to think like, you know, winter's over. I think about the day I froze at the Kentucky Derby and I was just like, okay, let's just be fair about this. It can get darn cold in even May, early May.

If the groundhog was here in Kentucky, he'd like, I want to move.

I don't know what's going to happen.

That's why we have good whiskey. Yes.

That's right.

All right. I'm ready to try this. Cheers. Let it rip.

Sweeter. Nice little sweetness up front. Hits the back pretty quick. Washes right over the mid palate.

I like to use analogies a lot when I'm kind of thinking about profiles. This may sound goofy, but to me, this feels like if I was chewing on a vanilla wafer and took a sip of bourbon.

Yes. A lot of vanilla. Again, another soft one on the palate, though. Yeah.

It's buttery. We haven't had anything that's had a big upfront impression so far for me. We'll get there. OK. All right.

If also I could encourage something to listeners, this is a little philosophy I developed back at my old liquor store, Chuck's Wine and Spirits down in Bowling Green. Shameless plug, but. I would encourage people to be specifically ambiguous when it comes to analyzing your sip. Be specific about a category, but be ambiguous within. For example, let's say we get to a barrel and there's these notes of brown baking spices. One of us might interpret nutmeg. One of us might get cinnamon. One of us might get something else. But we're in the same ballpark. Even when we were at the first barrel, I mentioned that you both were describing white fruit. That was the specific ambiguity that I would encourage people to do.

Kind of makes sense. Yeah, this is vanilla caramel. This is like classic. And there's that very gingery thing I get a lot of times in MGP.

This one's a little bit sweeter.

Now, when you're blending, do you find yourself like, you're like, oh, this ought to work. And then sometimes it's just like, nope, that's a train wreck. Oh, yeah, I trust.

I mess up more than I succeed. But you don't know if you don't try. Right. Yeah, no, there's a lot of times where that does happen. But what I've learned over the years of doing this is, Contrast works, you know, like I mentioned earlier, there's some. I was mentoring Daniel here earlier and just kind of coming up with some blends and. barrels that I would consider boring would be very aromatically dull, but they've got good mouth feel texture to them. So then use that as a base and a layer on that. Find barrels that are vibrant, aromatic, or just whatever kind of aromatic you're looking for. So yeah, no, trust me, if you saw my notes, you would see that I screw up a lot until I get it right.

All right. I think another winner here. No doubt. Good. We're going to have six winners. We just figure out which winners. What winners to put together.

The winner is 1221.

All right, barrel 1221, the third barrel of the day. Back to a little lower, 117 proof.

A little backstory on the numbers that we're reading off with the barrels. So when we say barrel 1221, that is the 1,221st barrel we've had in company history. So we do those in order of operation from the very first barrel we had to whatever that number is, that number is, that's the barrel that we're up to.

Oh, that's cool. That is cool. Now, do you guys have any, like, super olds just sitting back for something special or anything? Like, got something in them? Yeah, that's cool.

Got it for special guests, right? We got American light whiskey that's encroaching the 19-year mark. Wow. Wow.

It's ridiculously good, too.

Oh, Wade. Hmm. Another nose that's not, like, strong impression. It's kind of a lighter nose. Yeah. A little bit more of a kind of a minty note to it maybe.

A little herbaceousness too.

So there, there you go. I'm saying mint, you're saying herbaceous.

Ambiguity. Ambiguity. Got it.

I understand.

Yeah, not disagreeing with you. It's just, that's just how my head works when I'm doing this stuff.

And it's true that people are different in what they perceive. So, I mean, I might really be getting mint, but he's, no, he's getting, he's getting grass notes or something.

I know he's kidding about the banana thing. He doesn't get the banana very often.

I can't pick up the banana. I pick up artificial banana, like the ruts, but I can't get like real banana.

Yeah. But again, you're in the same ballpark nonetheless.

Yeah.

And receptor distribution varies on the tongue, amongst person to person, too. And then same thing with the nose.

OK, that one rushed to the back.

That's fun. Now think about that for a second. Cherry, a lot of little pop rocks for me. Now think about that from a blending perspective. We've had three barrels so far. Which was the most front loaded for you?

two, the second one we tried. OK, so none of them were really front loaded, but my number two probably was the most of the three.

And then the first barrel was more mid. Now think about how you put those together. So for example, you get a barrel that kind of taps your tongue on the front, get a barrel that taps in the back. Theoretically, they should make sense together. It's a matter of just figuring out what you want to focus on more.

And, you know, sometimes when we're drinking through whiskeys on the show, we'll get a whiskey, we'll say, wow, that's everywhere all at once. Right. We say that a lot. We're like, that's a, that's a well-composed whiskey. Somebody's taking the time to.

Yeah. Well, like I said, that was the, uh, the whole point behind our core skew, the black label, um, as well as, you know, it was, like I said, organized chaos, you know, that, uh, there's a lot, excuse me, there's a lot going on, but it also makes sense at the same time.

And I think one of the cool things right now, it's a blender's time. There's a lot of good blended whiskey out there. And I would definitely put you guys in that category. Thank you.

Well, and also what takes us a step up as well is, like I said, the crafting process, you know, the staves that we apply to the barrels as well, because that extra charred oak really helps to expedite the maturation process of the whiskey and really make it shine. kind of faster, you know, and just to just help admit because because one thing I tend to use the word maturation over aging because you know that extra chart oak really helps to expose and show what's there faster and therefore we get to show people that high age statement doesn't mean everything. It's not that our whiskey is young and youthful, but at the same time, that's just what we do.

So your staves that you're placing in, and again, if you can't talk about this, that's fine. But your staves that you're putting in, typically when whiskey is placed in a barrel, that barrel is either toasted or charred or both. The part of the barrel that the whiskey touches is charred or toasted or both. But when you put staves in, there may be portions of the wood facing the whiskey that is not received charring or toasting.

Yes. Uh, so for example, that's where like some, uh, if we're talking about like barrels that we haven't crafted near what you just said, so where the, the whiskey goes beyond the char and into the wood, that's where I'm assuming, I know you've had this before where a lot of whiskies can get very like tannic and acidic on you, you know, and that's where a lot of that's going to get drawn out from is there, you know, the, the, the charring process is important because The way I was explaining to people when they come in here is going back to my medical background is that if you ingest poison and get admitted to the ER because of that, what do they give you?

Um, epic epic or something. No, no, that's the wrong thing to do.

Yeah. It wasn't like in the eighties and nineties, but now they, they don't induce vomiting anymore. So they give you activated charcoal. So they take basically just literally charcoal and water mixed together and. I use that analogy because I describe the charred part of a barrel as the activated charcoal for the distillate. So it helps to remove a lot of the harsh impurities that come from distillation, but yet there are compounds in the wood that are giving back to the distillate at the same time. So barrels not only give, they also reveal what's there. That's why the It's not just the mash bill that's important, it's the yeast strains you pair with the mash bill and the congeners they give off. And also the other compounds that get reviewed through distillation are very important because that's where a lot of the process of what we're sipping on, that's where a lot of that occurs is on that front. New Riff was masterful at showing the industry that when they came about. Because I mean, I believe they scalped Sam Adams, head brewer, And I mean, who knows grain ratios and yeast strains better than beer people? Sure. You know, I mean, that's because that's the first step in making whiskey is to make beer first. Yeah, all whiskey is beer.

Yep.

It starts out as beer. And all whiskey is is cooked beer that you throw in a wooden barrel. Yeah. You know, I mean, so yeah, so that's how it all starts out. So that's where they did a great job of that.

So all right. Get what you need there. Yeah, like I said, my notes are just. It's OK. Middle notes. I feel like. I've got the stats on the barrel. That's the important part.

I feel like this one's sitting in the back a little bit more. And it definitely has a little bit of a sizzle for me on the back side.

You notice it leaves a little dry feel on the tip of your tongue too. Yeah. I don't know. I just kind of like that. I like wine, so I'm kind of.

Like that dry bite. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so we've gone through the first three barrels. Todd has his notes. Mental.

Well, okay.

We're going to lean on you for some... What was that second barrel like?

I do have mine like a bear trap.

It's really sharp. Well, that's good.

At least I like to think I do.

And they do clamp down. All right, we're going to take a short break. And when we come back, three more barrels and then we're going to blend it. Yeah. So stick around, folks. Few things pair better together than a fine whiskey and a premium cigar. And Smoky's Lifestyle Cigars are where flavor and craftsmanship meet. Their exclusive collection is meticulously hand rolled from aged tobacco sourced from the Dominican Republic. Revel in the artistry that only decades of experience can bring. The owner, with over 10 years of cigar mastery, curates blends that capture the essence of family tradition and innovation. Embrace the journey and indulge in a harmonious symphony of Smoky's Lifestyle Cigars, an experience truly beyond compare. Find out more at Smoky's Lifestyle Cigar dot com. When you're traveling the Bourbon Trail, location and comfort is everything. That's why I recommend making the Hill House Bed and Breakfast your home away from home. Located in the heart of Bourbon Country, the Hill House Bed and Breakfast is less than 5 minutes from the Maker's Mark Distillery in Loretto, Kentucky. giving you easy access to the Bardstown distilleries and all points of the Bourbon Trail. The owners, Cheryl and Jim, offer four comfortable and cozy rooms along with a gourmet hot plated breakfast every single morning. And, when you return from a long day of fun, it's time to enjoy a bit of the Bourbon Trail nightlife. Relax on the large outdoor patio complete with a blazing chiminea and solo stove, Or, curl up on the sofa and chairs, put a record on the turntable and relax with snacks and fruit in front of the gas fireplace. An evening at the Hill House is a perfect time to raise a bourbon glass full of cheer in the company of family and friends. We know you'll enjoy your stay at the Hill House Bed and Breakfast as much as we did. Find out more at thehillhousekontucky.com.

All right, roadies, welcome back to the second half of our show with Aaron Mulally from Jay Mattingly. We went through three barrels in the first half, and we're going to dive into three more. The first barrel we had was kind of fruit forward, and I even got some tropical notes. The second one was a little more floral. The third was a little more herbaceous. And yeah, we're getting ready to dive into barrel four.

And before we start, Mr. Jeff Mattingly, Jay Mattingly himself, just texted and said to say hello to you guys. He's very thankful that you guys are here doing this as well. So so thank you. Yeah.

Yeah. Pleasures are.

Yeah, of course. That's two way street. So So, yeah, so this third barrel. Fourth. Oh, yeah, right, fourth. Yeah. We've been having barrel-proof whiskey. Lowest proof of the bunch I might have.

116. Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, it's play stuff for us.

There's one thing that's very distinct about this barrel. So the gentleman who makes our staves. So Jeff, kind of, I'm going to piggyback this. Jeff is who came up with the crafting process, you know, making staves, giving them different types of heat treatments, putting them into barrels. Now Leroy does that for us. He does a marvelous job. And, and you know, and then his brother Bradley, who's our production manager. We all work very in conjunction with one another in terms of trying to strategically figure out what, how we want to save the barrels. And then. But he figures out what staves he wants to pair with the barrels. And now the staves in here, there should be something very specific that you pick about it. I heard one of you say smoky a moment ago.

Yeah, we cheated a little bit during the break. You were checking on a few things.

So as Jim and I want to do, if there's bourbon sitting, we're going to nose it.

And we might even sneak a quick sip. I'd do the same thing if I were in your shoes. Nose, it's like a vanilla icing. I call it a birthday cake.

There's a T word that you should be using with this one. Oh, a T word. It has to do with the staves. A T word. Toasted. Yes. Yeah, toasted. These staves are not charred that are in this one. They're toasted instead. Hence that sweet, savory kind of profiles that you get out of that.

But I even got just a little light smoky note on the nose itself, too.

For me, I almost get a smoky mallow with some like... Yeah, like a marshmallow thing, yeah. Yeah, it was maybe like a dark raisin or I'm going to say prune, but just like a date kind of a profile.

Yeah, it definitely gets sweet cream. I was thinking, like I said, Even though I don't think I've ever had a plum cake. I said kind of like a plum cake with sweet cream icing on it. But it does have this dark fruit kind of.

What was the other thing you said, though, from Charles Pickens on it?

Figgy pudding.

Which I've never had that either. I don't know if anybody has.

But yeah, this one's really unique. But that's the effect that toast has. So for the listeners, or maybe some new listeners into this, charring, if I was going to use a culinary analogy, charring is the equivalent of pan searing. You can do high heat really quick. You're cooking fast, making a crust. Basically, when you're doing that to wood, you're making charcoal out of that wood when you char the wood. As opposed to toasting, think of toasting as more like a slow cook, a crock pot. You want to break, like with meat, you want to break the connective tissues down but preserve the integrity of the meat. When you toast wood, what you're doing is you're slow cooking the wood and drawing sugars out in a certain way. Because the way you have to burn it, that's where a lot of those smoky notes kind of come into it. So for example, a level one char is what, 15 seconds, I believe? So as opposed to if we're making toasted staves, which we would consider a light char if it was a level one. And if we're making toasted stays, as in Leroy, when he's doing it, you're looking at maybe a bare minimum of like a four hour cook under a consistent low temperature on the wood to try to draw. Wow, that long.

Yeah. And if that toasting goes a little too long, that's where you end up getting that burnt marshmallow, right?

Yep, that's correct.

Well, there's definitely no burnt marshmallow on this, but you do get a little bit of marshmallow. Right.

Yeah.

Sweet.

Like that's what the sweetness kind of reminds you of is like I said, like if you, if you put a marshmallow on a stick, but don't turn in a charcoal when you're putting over a fire at the same time, you know, this is definitely the sweetest of the four, I think for me.

Yeah.

And probably because of that, but definitely kind of still, even though I get that, that nice touch upfront, I really do. It still kind of sits in the back for me. Okay.

Let me ask you this. Do you guys like scotch?

I do.

Like Isla scotches, those PD scotches.

I'm sort of on the border. I don't like them. I'm not a Laforet guy. See, I'm an aardbeg, you know, Corey Reckon.

Yes, I'm a Laforet lore aardbeg guy myself, Lagervullen. The reason why I ask that is because obviously this isn't a scotch, but it has a little bit of a familiar feel with some of the smoke with it yeah and that can either be like people really there's not much of a middle gear with a profile like that people are that you just like it or you don't yeah right i just don't like when it goes

way into like the Band-Aid note or way into the Ashtray note. It's a little too far. It's too much iodine. I don't mind that.

I don't either, but again, but when they say that's an acquired taste, that's what you're referring to is that.

I think the shame is like when you say Scotch, that's what everybody thinks too though.

I know it's annoying because there's what five to seven different regions of Scotch.

And even within a region there's a wide band of flavors.

Even with the Highland region, you've got the River Spey that goes through there and you have your Speyside which just comes out of Highland and that even of itself is highly variable and that's within the same darn region.

Now, I think one of the really cool things you guys do here is you have special releases in honor of military events and things like that. You want to talk about that a little bit?

Yeah. Yeah, we, throughout the year, do various bottles to raise money to benefit Veterans Affairs, police officers, firefighters, EMS. We've even in the past helped out some disease research organizations. We just to our core very much appreciate those who give and therefore we try to give back You know because of that because I mean let's just face it We all wouldn't be sitting here for and for that and not trying to be political with anything saying that it just is what it is right, you know and Even just for example, I mean towards the end of last year I We got a call from the 82nd Airborne's Association and they saw what we've been doing over the years with the fundraising and what we do with the proceeds for that. We're very picky with whom we work with as well because as we know, not every organization does what they say they do with the money. We make sure that we vet whom we work with very thoroughly and they just simply do what they say they're doing. And like I said, the 82nd, Ford Bragg called us, and they saw what we were doing, and they wanted to partner with us. So myself, Cameron, Madeline, Jeff Sun, who's basically the reason why this place doesn't burn down, our CFO. And then Todd Mantiak, the Kentucky president of Rolling Thunder MC. They raise money to help to try to bring POWs back from overseas and bring them back to country. And most states have, I think every state actually has a chapter of that. So we actually just brought him on full time. And so the three of us got the privilege to go out there and let me tell you, they put us through a college semester's worth of training work and work within a four day time span just to just show us what they do. And then we we did a thousand bottle blend that sold out very quickly. And the money for that was used to go to scholarship funds for children of the 82nd Airborne. Fantastic.

That's cool.

Yeah. So so that's just one example of uh things that we do you know we do a lot of collaborations with a camp brown bear here in frankfort um you know with steve brown um forgotten coast k9 out of florida we work with uh they raise dogs and then uh train those dogs to be service dogs that's their way because there's one unfortunate statistic with um out of combat veterans is there's a high suicide rate amongst them. Right. That's their way of trying to lower that is to try to, you know, train dogs is to help reduce that. That's cool. So, yeah. So, so we're like I said, we're very privileged to be able to do that. And yeah, and then we, you know, we kind of make the bottles look different to add some medallions to them and whatnot. But like I said, if We're asking a little more for those bottles because we're taking a percentage out to contribute. You know, people should be getting a nicer bottle. Yeah. Not just our normal. They're really good looking. They're very unique.

You're being very modest when you say that you do a little something to them. They're beautiful bottles. Absolutely gorgeous.

Some folks have probably seen those Jack Daniels single barrel.

small medallions, but yours, yours looks like almost like wrestling belts or something. They're really cool.

And, you know, but, you know, military wise, but, um, and, you know, another cool thing that we talked about earlier was, you know, you've approached some of our, the businesses here in Frankfurt and, you know, you've kind of teamed up and done some special things with like, uh, David Sandlin from house of commons. He's in an episode. Uh, there's a small bar here that kind of does beers by the, um, the ounce if you want and it's a really fun place called Porter's.

I was actually just there on Wednesday this week because we're doing a collaboration. I won't name drop but the owner reached out and said that he was my northern just came out there came out and said he wanted to do a collaboration to raise money for the Frankfurt fraternity of firefighters. So I came up with a few different blends the other day and brought them out to him and he picked the one that he thought would do the best and he's gonna through those bottle sales, take a certain percentage out of each bottle, and then use that to donate to them. And they do a lot of great things for the community of those who serve as well. And then also, we also collaborate with a brewery in Shelbyville, Kentucky. And we can talk about that in a moment, because I kind of want to get to the next sample.

I must have just missed you at Porter's on Wednesday. I was there at 7 PM. I left around 5.

All right, going to move on to barrel five. This is barrel 1223, 118 proof.

More traditional for me.

See, I'm getting like, it's like this like sagey note and like, like it's herbal, but like the darker side of herbs, I guess. Like savory, that's what I think I want to call this.

Maybe a little more savory on the nose. This one's the most Rick housey kind of oaky notes that I've gotten so far.

This is going to sound kind of weird, but it doesn't sound like if I was maybe cooking in a carpenter shop. OK. Yeah, yeah.

Sawdust type thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So definitely more of a, like there's the herbaceousness, but like the sawdust, that's kind of how the oak kind of comes off to me on this one.

Now, when you get the sawdusty, is that more new oak or well-aged oak? Like when you get...

So this barrel has a lightly charged staves in it as opposed to a heavy charge. So more kind of like that... Sorry, I've already sipped. Sorry.

I'm working on it. Cheers. After that very interesting nose, I was like, hang on, I'm going to dive into this. That's really good. Yep. That's velvety.

I was just going to, I literally was just about to ask you, what do you think about the texture of this whiskey? Yeah, the texture is super soft. Yeah. But that's a type of texture that's going to speak to people. Yeah. Yep. You know? Wow.

Yeah. So this one's a little bit up front and in the middle. It's kind of, I want to say on that last one, Ton, As I was sipping the last few drops of the fourth barrel we were tasting from, I started to get the side dripping on the sides a little bit.

With a barrel like that, you don't want to go heavy on a barrel like that. That's like a 10-15% ratio barrel. That's a barrel that can take over very quickly. That's more something you want to try to accentuate or round out a blend with.

This is really an inside view at Blending Whiskeys. I think you don't get this a lot of times on a podcast. This is kind of special. Hopefully a lot of our listeners are getting a feeling like they're getting sort of a sneak peek into the back room of a blending shed and how things are going.

Well, and especially when you do things like the way we do, where things are more of like one-off approaches, you have to think original, unique all the time. And it's taken, again, years of practice to figure out figure these things out like that a barrel like i just mentioned is not a good base barrel but it's good accent barrel yeah it can it can definitely add to a blend but if but it can dominate one at the same time and you know that's not for everybody right you know those competitions they have like with culinary like called iron chef and stuff like that where they're

And then they do it.

I was thinking chopped. Yeah, like chopped. And then like baristas do it with coffee. I'm wondering if they need something with barrel blending, where they give you six barrels, and everybody's got six barrels, and they just go for it. Let's push that to the food channel and see if we can get that to fly.

We can bring Aaron on and some other blenders. You know what's actually funny? I don't watch TV at home, but when I'm on road trips promoting sales and I'm in hotel rooms, all I do is watch the Food Network.

This is really good. I like this one a lot. It's a good barrel. I feel like this will be like a nice, like, I hate to say it, chef's kiss on the, maybe at the end of the blend. No, I agree. You're fine. One thing we didn't talk about is if folks want to come do this event, what's that run? And, you know, I know there's this, they can obviously purchase as many bottles as they want, but I've obviously

Up to a certain quantity. So it's $175 and included is what we're doing right now, going through the barrels themselves. And then 750 milliliters of whiskey of the blend that we create together is included in that. Now, if you only wanted to just stick with the 750, we have to divvy it up amongst two 375 milliliter bottles to pints. If you want to do multiple bottles, then we can go 750. Or a little loophole with that is if you want to do a 750, we're not trying to upcharge people. It was just the government came in and said we had to do it this way. You can get a little 100 milliliter bottle to say it's more than one bottle, essentially. Oh, cool. And then you can pick what you want to call it, barring no copyright infringements, and I don't care what side of a fence you're on, no politics or going on a label. And whatever wax colors we have melted down for the day, you can pick how you want your bottle dipped. And you do have a rainbow.

You can blend the colors on the wax.

We can do two different colors.

Okay. But you have a, don't you have like, or do the colors are just more for your own things. But like what I'm saying is like, can I do like blue and red and, or I can do green and white type thing.

It's what we have. So we kind of have what we call the wax of the day. OK. So it's like I said, what we have already melted down for the day. So we'll show you what's there. Or what I usually tell people is instead, if you don't want the bottle waxed, you can do a wood cork or do a tack stamp and a plastic seal on it. And it's much easier to open. Yes.

Certain brands have mastered that and certain brands have not.

Yeah. I'm not putting you in either of those categories. It took us a while. But it boils down to whether it's doing what we're doing right now or whether it's a state distribution pick, a store pick, we want to make this blending as customizable to who is getting the product. Like someone's just doing the two, three, seven, fives. They can still pick what they want to call it, whatever wax colors. If we're doing a store pick, like I said, our Indiana wholesaler, Indiana Small Batch just came down earlier this week and did a 30 case light whiskey pick and then a single barrel of a bourbon that I just told them about. And I was like, you'd be nuts not to pick this. And thankfully they did. But it was a low-food barrel, so it only gave us, I think, 60 bottles. Or gave them, I should say. But again, they got to pick bottle shape, waxing, configurations, what they want to call it, all that fun stuff. That's cool. So yeah, so yeah. Yeah. And like I said, we just try to make this as a customizable to people as we can.

All right. Shall we move on to number six? He's talked it up.

So let's this is the one that this is my personal favorite.

And we're supposed to tell you what state this barrel would be matched to. Right. Yes. So what you said.

OK. Rinse the pallet for this one.

Yeah, this one I'd be very specific with if I was using this to blend.

Now, do you feel like this is going to be a big part, like the base, or is this more like a like we just had that last one was kind of a an additive touch to with this barrel?

I wouldn't say it's a middle gear barrel. You either want to base it or like 10% it. OK. And also this barrel is giving me ideas for barrel-age beers as well. OK. As I mentioned earlier.

Yeah. You teamed up with a brewery actually near Jim's house. Not too far from you.

Yeah, I dangerously lived three blocks away from Last Stop Brewing in Shelbyville, Kentucky. No, it started, it was one day I was just simply driving to work and I was driving by and I swiveled my head to the left and I said, oh, a brewery came to town. And then I went in there a week after they opened and I walked in and I saw, I went to order a beer and I saw actually a bottle of rye whiskey that I made called, actually it's right behind you guys, Jam Session. And I just saw it on their shelf and I was like, it was kind of the first time where even though I've been doing this for a while, it was just, like surreal walking in and be like, holy cow, I did that. And it wasn't like in a liquor store. It was just like in a bar. I don't know why. It just hit me in a certain way. And then the gentleman who I ordered the beer from, I said, holy cow, thanks for having that bottle. And he kind of looked at me funny and looked at the bottle funny. And I said, I made that. And he was like, wait, what? And then we got to talking. He was actually one of the three owners of the establishment. And I don't know if he might be dropping his name, so I won't do it. And then I came in the very next day and he introduced me to the other two owners and his business partners and one of them was the head brewer. Now someone else has been promoted to the head brewer and he's just kind of doing more ownership stuff and We just got to talking about doing barrel-age beers and whiskey blends together. So I make custom blends for them to sell by the pour behind their bar. In fact, we just sold the last one together last week, actually. Last pour that is. And then we're about to do another collaboration here pretty soon. And then they use our barrels to make barrel-age beers with and we just promote each other and send people back and forth. So it was kind of a a cool little, hey, how you doing? That turned into, hey, let's support each other kind of a thing. So yeah, so yeah, last stop brewing in Shelbyville, Kentucky. That's an awesome place to be. And I will not shamelessly plug them because they've been great to us. It's a good spot.

Melody and I go there often. Not as often as you, because every time I'm there, I see you.

Well, again, a guy from Wisconsin living three blocks away from a brewery is a bad combination.

Okay, I gotta admit, so if this were a single barrel pick, this would probably be my jam. Yeah, it's pretty good stuff.

It's just so... This is my favorite MGP barrel that we have.

So this is a little more meaty, kind of? I don't know, meaty. Darker fruits. Darker, yeah. And meaty's not the right word.

Savory, yeah, you can get that. Savory, yeah. I agree with you on that.

I'm gonna say... But what state would this be going to? I'm thinking Texas.

That's not a bad guess, but that's not the one that I have in mind. Texas.

That would be, that would be like, if it were a little more intense, maybe Missouri.

You're thinking barbecue. I'm thinking barbecue. Memphis? Wisconsin. North Carolina. North Carolina. OK. Because there's like what you're saying are like these kind of darker savory notes. To me, that's like a tobacco-y profile to me. Got it. OK. And like I said, there's a lot of.

It does have like a pipe tobacco type thing. Yeah.

Yeah, and that's not a profile that that part of the country is afraid of, whether it's North Carolina, South Carolina.

Yeah, I'm thinking this is the base. So are we making a cigar blend, or what are we doing?

If you're using that as a base, that's where I would go with that.

Each of these six are very different from each other. It's wonderful that you've been able to set this up this way.

We have to do that this way, because what would be the point of you coming in and doing this event? And you have six barrels and they're all almost identical to each other. There's got to be variety in each station. Because like I said, too, people that are coming in from different areas have different tastes, profiles, palates. They look for different things. Or you might get that outlier that just says, I want to do something different from my norm. We've got to be able to provide that.

Like you said, you've got a rye station, you have another bourbon station that's sourced from a different area, and then you have a light whiskey. Now, are those stave treatments different in those as well?

Yes. Okay. So because American light whiskey or light whiskey in general is, it's a distillate that starts its life in X or used oak as opposed to virgin or new oak. We tend to use used staves with that as well to keep the used. Okay, that's interesting. So yeah. So yeah, so now we do, we do treat those a little differently because of that.

So now it's a little harder to get the savory, the herbaceous and things. in the ride, then obviously, we've talked about these bourbons that we've tried. Actually, herbaceous isn't very good.

The herbaceous would be probably easier in the ride.

And then obviously, you're going to get those minty notes, and you could go even like the true pumpernickel ride. Is that what you're shooting for sometimes? Is it a different ball game for that, I guess?

Yeah, no, it's my favorite bread, too, that you just mentioned. I am wildly biased. Makes me think of the Middle West pumpernickel rye, which is... Yeah, which is nowhere in front of my wildly biased horse rye. But one thing I've noticed is interesting with bourbon is when you get some of those herbaceous notes, It's a really fine line because sometimes they either come off as very perfumey or soapy. Yeah. Or like, it's going to sound weird, but like, like baby food, you know, like green baby food, you know, so it's really making sure there's enough texture, oiliness to kind of enrichness to counteract that. Because sometimes that can be kind of unappealing, you know, if the with what I've just noticed that with bourbon and corn mashes, like with rye, it makes a little more like there's some reason they make a little more sense because they come off as if you work with them, right, less they're there, but they're not like perfumier. Like I said, just not maybe vomiting or foodie, but that bourbons can get. You got to be a little more careful with bourbons working with profiles like that.

If you use this particular barrel or this particular recipe barrel in a smaller percentage in a blend, how does it play?

This barrel, even though I really love this barrel, it's not as strong as the last barrel that we had. So therefore, this one can be a base, but... You're again, accentuating a base. So for example, if I was to use that barrel as a base, I wouldn't try to mix two barrels together like that one, another one, because there's already quite a bit going on. As opposed to the first two barrels, if I want to use them as a base, I wouldn't use them individually. I would combine them together to add more pop and texture, because this barrel's already pretty darn complete on its own. So it's more, we're really just trying to accentuate a little, just, just add a little more layers to what's going on with this.

If you had baby food on your bingo card, I think that's the first time I've ever heard it on. Before I joined, I was, I've listened to every episode. So that's first time I've heard baby food. Yeah, I think it is. Yeah.

We've always been really heavy in like candy bar and cereal notes, right? Makes me want to go try some baby food.

You know, funny enough, when I heard my first child, that was like a weird little contest. I had a friend who also was having a baby at the time, and we were blindfolded and tried some different baby foods and had to guess what it was. Fact, those are not sweet at all. They are just pretty much pureed raw vegetable, well, whatever. processed vegetable type thing. It was really interesting.

Yep, they are. All right, Todd, are you ready to compute and calculate and figure?

Well, fun story real quick, because I said I had a story to talk about with Bradley and myself, our production manager. Going back to what I was saying earlier about using analogies when you're trying to have SIPs, January of last year, he came to me and said, you know, we're going to do about like a hundred bottle of rye blend for the gift shop, like a specialty blend, you know? And I was like, cool. And, you know, him and I, whenever him and I don't blend together very often when we do wild stuff in the right way happens. Ask people about Sunday morning sidewalk. And they'll tell you that about that.

But I love the name sometimes.

Yeah. But I just realized this other one about the talk about starts with an S as well. But and I asked him, what kind of profiles are you looking for? And he said, Well, maybe like a like a rye to appeal to a bourbon drink or, you know, something a little more like oily, rich, thicker, darker, you know, over going through the barrels. And let's just say we were abjectly not making it happen.

And then because they're all ninety five fives, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Granted, again, rye doesn't equal spice.

Wheat doesn't equal sweet.

It's just how you work with the whiskey that's important. That's one thing the industry needs to stop telling people when you go on tours is rye is spicy, wheat is sweet. Because you can give me weeder barrels and I'll put together the biggest hot mess you've ever had.

And I've had riser like the hard candy orange. Exactly. Yeah.

And I've had wheat so that's like, that's a spicy weeder. Yeah. And well, it's funny you mentioned orange because we grabbed a sample out of one of our barrels. It's no longer with us because it's empty. And it just smelled like liquid orange peel. And I looked at Bradley and I said, let's make a rye that feels like you're drinking an old fashioned, like an RTD old fashioned. And then also like both of our like wheels just started turning. And then we found a barrel that had a very, the one thing that was really good about that barrel. So that barrel became 50% of the blend. And then the next barrel we found that we thought would have made sense had this almost like very like lemon peel citrus, different kind of citrus kind of profile. Well, what's a common garnish for an old fashioned lemon peel, not just an orange as well. And, you know, Bradley recommended that we go really heavy on the orange peel. And then, you know, we discussed and we're like, let's go 20% on the lemon peel. And then we found another barrel where the oak was just really like bitter. But what do you put in Manhattan's and old fashions? Right. Bitters, right? And then, well, old fashions are usually relatively sweet. So we found the sweetest rye barrel, which we actually still have. Uh, number 10 53. Sad that I know that, but, um, and then threw that in as 10%. And I kid you not, it literally sipped like you were already had a pre-mixed old fashioned.

Wow. That's fantastic. That sounds good.

Yeah, but that's what's kind of cool about the creativity of what we do, you know? So, um, uh, so I apologize for those who are listening. You can't get that bottle, but, uh, but, uh, but that's, uh, but that's just, again, how some of the stuff comes together. It's trial and error, you know?

And importantly, can we get it?

I have one bottle at home, and I'm not giving it away, so sorry.

If you have a party, let us know.

We'll bring something to share. But OK, so based off of what you went through with these six barrels, what do you gentlemen, what do you want to try to accomplish here with this blend we're about to do? Texture. Yes.

Yeah, texture. So maybe we go, strong bass with the very first one.

And number five too.

It was velvety. I don't know if you need to double up on it.

I'm looking over to Aaron as we're talking to see if he has any reaction on his face here. My wheels are turning. I'm listening. But I'm thinking we start with the bass that gives us the texture that we want. It gives us that body that we're after. So the very first one was

1261, that was the tropical.

The white fruit one that we had.

Yeah, white fruit, yes. Which was really nice. And then barrel five, what were our notes on? Five was the savory. Yeah.

Was that barrel right there?

Yeah, velvety. It was very velvety.

And then a kiss of the six, which... You can't not include six.

Yeah, just a tad bit of that. I did like the second barrel because of the little bit of floral note that came out on it. Number three was more herbaceous. I'd like to skip that one altogether. But number two had a little bit of a floral note. But I don't know if it would add to it or if it would detract from the overall. Herbaceous and tobacco would contradict one another.

So I definitely wouldn't want to go that route.

I was going to say B. Like I said, I think five was herbaceous too, cause it had, but it's a little like savory herbs rather than, like I said, I got like a sagey vibe a little bit.

When you said that, I think that was where I also said carpenter shop. So, um, But also, and Jimmy also mentioned Rick house. Yeah. That is, I love when I can get that feel in a bourbon. Like if it feels like you're, whether it's a Rick house or a wood shop and you just have a glass of bourbon or whiskey in your hand.

Drop some on the Rick house floor. Yeah. There's. So if we had a, if we had a base of one, I was called that Rick house funk. And if we had a base of one with a, dabble of five, what would be give that like cherry on top? What would give us that like?

Well, it depends. If you want to lean into you mentioned cigar malts earlier, I would definitely say the sixth barrel one, five and six would accent that. Or, um, I don't want to say maybe. What was it? What was it? Where was that notes in the third barrel again?

Uh, third was herbaceous. That was the.

Yeah. So let's keep that out, um, with what we're trying to do here.

My notes are mostly up here. Like I said, I liked, I think one, five, six, and maybe, I don't know. I'd say four. I had a little four.

Yeah.

Vanilla, cereal, ginger. Four was the birthday. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You said the birthday cake, I believe. But then it had that toasted smoky nut.

So what is it, like more of one? Like one's the base?

Well, actually, I really didn't tell the story to segue into this, but this just, you kind of got me think at the same time. Let's try that. Let's try 50% of the first barrel. Yep. 20% of. Number four, the vanilla sweet one. Cause that's going to be, we're going to need a little more of that. Cause most of the, of the barrels we're using, most of them are very like dark in their profiles. Throwing a bright in there will again, add some nice depth to what we're trying to do. And then. I would say go heavier on the barrel. The sixth barrel, the one that so is my favorite and then like another 20 and then, and then accidental, uh, yeah. Accident with a little savory. Yeah. With the toasted barrel.

Okay. All right. What do you think? That sounds good to me. All right folks, through the magic of podcasting, we're going to, uh, do this in like two seconds and be right back.

All right.

Stick around. podcasting, we're back and we have a blend ready to taste. Yeah, they have no idea how long that took. How long did it take, Todd? Like two seconds.

It didn't take very long at all. It really didn't.

We probably really didn't even need to break. We could have just sat here and chatted about. Hummed a tune or something. Yeah. All right, here we go.

This is pretty exciting. Yeah. So we did 50% of barrel one. And if you recall, that was kind of our fruity, fruity, white fruit. Tropical, white fruit. Yeah. We did 20% of barrel five and six. Five was the savory. Six, savory and toasty. And six was the leathery. Pipe tobacco, tobacco. North Carolina barrel. North Carolina barrel, yeah. And then 10% barrel four, which was vanilla, like the birthday cake. I said the birthday cake. But just a touch of a smoky kiss, which was really nice.

Yeah, so try to capture some dark, earthy tones, but brighten it up with some sweeter tones at the same time.

And our goal here is to really skip the herbaceous barrels. Yes, yes. OK, correct.

Yeah. Skip past the floral and the herbaceous this time. All right. All right. Loving the nose already. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's like I'm getting all those things we just talked about.

You make me want to have a cigar right now.

Yeah. This is really good. I love the nose on it.

It's like, might be the biggest nose of the, like we tried all those six individually, but like this is like, well, now it's mashed and it's like, boom.

That's kind of what we talked about earlier too, was we're not limiting ourselves to one single barrel by combining other barrels together. Like I said, we created more. Yeah. You know,

So when you blend things like this, do you find any kind of chemical dynamics that happen? Like do you get like a release of ethanol on the nose a little bit or anything like that that happens when you're blending that you got to sort of say that's not that's not gonna be there later.

Yeah with American light whiskey and one of our bourbon mashes that we have that's that are more higher proof barrels Definitely have to let them sit for a little bit. Like, cause like you said, you got to get, let that ethanol evaporate out of the way. Cause too much ethanol just, it hurts, you know, it's hard. And, uh, you know, when that gets out of the way, then you can get a better idea of what's going on. So.

All right. I'm going to taste. Cheers. Already did. Sorry. All right. Well then you get to talk first. Sláinte. Sláinte.

That's chewy. That's exactly what you guys said.

And it really is. We've got a full pallet impact there. It's like front, middle, back, sides. I'm dripping already a little bit.

Despite the six barrels we already had, this is like, hello. This is me. Yeah, I love this. This is really good. It's unctuous. Yep. I feel like the longer this sits in the glass, it'll probably like, you'll go back to it. It'll be a little like, you'll get something a little different every time.

Yeah, this would, this would be good with the cigar. This is also a good after dinner pour for sure. Um, it's, um, it has, uh, plenty of sweetness. It's in the proof on it's high enough.

I mean, nice spice, nice oak, great mouth feel. Yep. I was just going to say, I mean, you look at the legs in the glass. I mean, that's, There's some good oils to this. Yeah.

We're master blenders.

So you're going to sign off a card? We get certified after this or? Yeah, no.

He's like a high five and a pat on the back.

Good job. Just be glad we're not a fishing bait company. I'd hate to be the master of that.

Well, this has been a lot of fun.

But this is, like I said, kind of an insight into how this goes when you're going through this process, is like I said, whether you're doing, you know, as an individual or a small group that comes in to do the blend your own event, or if this is a store pick and we're looking for barrels that are going to speak to the state we're trying to get these into, or if it's a distro pick, which also does that at the same time. And this is a little bit of a dissection into the anatomy of how this works.

I'm going to tell you, you got to name it.

You got to name it. What's this called? Oh, well, like I said, I was thinking about doing like some sort of like, since we get to kind of write our own label, I've got two kids and. They're kind of younger. I was late to the kid game. But I wanted to put their names on them, kind of like for Elliot, for Addy, my kids. That's cool. And something they can have much later on, because they're six and eight.

So it'll be a while. You made it there before I did. I still don't have any.

I waited very late to the game. Kids have kids, so. Yeah. But yeah, I kind of wanted to do something special, because you guys, like you said, you kind of allowed you to write your own label. And I just thought it'd be kind of cool to do something like that for them.

Yeah. Now we have somebody that will write the labels, but you get to pick the name that goes on there.

So yeah, they probably have much better penmanship than myself.

There's a reason why none of us are going to be writing on labels. I used to have really good cursa, but yeah.

But this is, this is really good. I know it's really, really good. This would be, I might just do one for them and then one for me. Like this is dad's, this is y'all can split when you're old enough. The road less traveled. Yeah. Yeah. Cheers. This was a lot of fun.

So, give you a few seconds here to let everybody know where they can find J. Mattingly, 1845, on the internet, on social media, all those kind of things, how they can figure out how to do exactly what we did today.

Sure. We are on your normal major socials, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, J. Mattingly, 1845, if I missed anything. Whoever knows socials, you can figure that out. I remember life before those. But if you want to order bottles online, because we talked earlier about the fundraising bottles that we do for military and charity sake. If you go to our website and scroll down, there will be a link that if you click on it, it'll take you there to order a bottle. And we appreciate anything with that because, like I said, the funds for that are going to help people. And we take that very seriously. If you are in a state that our bottles are in, but yet your liquor store doesn't have a bottle that was made, harangue them. Give them a hard time. That's what you do with liquor stores. You tell them you want something until they get it in and then you get it.

Yeah. The power of word of mouth can be really strong sometimes.

Well, that's literally what grew us from a 2,300 square foot building to a 25,000 square foot building was word of mouth and the creativity. Because, for example, what we just talked through and experienced, Jeff created that back in 2016. And the industry never saw anything like that before. And word of mouth is really what grew us. But yeah, but we appreciate any support that anybody who's listening provides us and grateful to be talking to you gentlemen again. And again, we're all a community and it's cool to work together. And it's my pleasure and honor to make a whiskey that speaks to you all.

Fantastic. Well, everyone's looking for a great experience when they come to the Bourbon Trail. This is certainly one that's very, very unique. I think that if you have enough time on your schedule when you come and visit the Bourbon Trail, many people find their way to Buffalo Trace because that's kind of what people do, right? I mean, let's just face it, Buffalo Trace seems to be on the what to do list when people come to the Bourbon Trail.

You guys are literally right across the street.

Yep. We are directly across the street.

So when you get done at the gift shop picking up your bottle of Blanton's or whatever it might be, definitely find your way over to Jay Mattingly, spend the time in their gift shop, pick up a bottle. And if you have a little extra time, this is a great experience. This is something else altogether.

I agree. Yeah. Just go behind the ocean of orange semi truck trailers and you'll find us. There are a lot.

I think there's a sign right out on the street in front of Buffalo Traces that says, J. Maddingley, 600 feet or something like that, right?

Well, there's that. And we put one on the intersection there that says, we make bourbon too. But yeah, like I said, we're here to make good whiskey and show people a great time. Just provide a good, just good time for people. Fantastic. Thank you again for the invitation to come out and we had a fantastic time.

Yeah, this was a lot of fun. I mean, it's fun to play at the playground and this is kind of like a perfect playground, a little bit of you.

Yeah, kind of like I said, got to get in the inside of kind of how this process works. And that's why I was asking you about like where, like about the last barrel, for example, like where do you think that like, I would target or we would target with that barrel, you know, kind of thing. Because like I said, different consumption habits are very different all over the, you know, the country. And it's important to understand that and, you know, make people happy about what they're buying. Yeah.

And I recommend like, if you see some of Aaron's blends out there, he does, he does a great job. He actually, before they even opened open, they had the, my bourbon society out here for kind of a pre-kickoff and you know, they have one called open door, which may be a few bottles left upstairs.

What we have in the gift shop is all we have left. That was, we made a thousand bottles of that and There's much less than that left. And, and also like just because like myself or somebody else puts a blend together doesn't mean it's automatically bottled. I mean, you know, there's a little committee of us that, you know, it's like, Hey, try this, try this, try this, try this. And if we're unanimous, then we say, bam, we're going to bottle that kind of a thing.

Cause he does a great job. It's down to, well, exactly.

It's a team effort and we, uh, As I tell people all the time, we take what we do very seriously, but be sure as heck, don't take ourselves very seriously.

What a great way to spend a Saturday. Yeah. All right. Well, you can find The Burden Road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, threads. We do all those things. Every single week on Wednesday, Todd and I are putting together an episode. We've got some great people on like Aaron and Jay Mattingly. Sometimes we'll have a musician on or another distillery, other industry people. We've had authors and comics and it's always fun. We're always drinking whiskey every single week. You can count on it. So the best way to make sure you don't miss an episode is to scroll to the top of that app you're on. Hit that subscribe button. That way every week when an episode comes out, you'll get that notification letting you know that Jim and Todd have dropped another one. We'll get you through that next cutting grass or whatever it is that you do with your headset on. We'd love to be part of that day. But until the next time, we'll see you down the Bourbon Road.

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