17. Elizabeth McCall - Assistant Master Distiller at Woodford Reserve

So I didn't understand brown spirits and what you do with them and how you drink them and how to appreciate them. And then when I started working at Brown Forman, my world was expanded to understanding and to be able to appreciate all the complexities that bourbon has to offer and other spirits too, because I worked with tequilas and I worked with our vodkas and everything. So it was a learning experience. Sure, sure.

So are you a country girl or city girl?

I'm a hybrid.

A hybrid. So you live, where do you live?

I live in Louisville.

She lives in the Rick house over here, up there on the third floor.

I've heard people say based on my Instagram feed, she's like, Oh, you don't, you don't live at a horse farm? I was like, no, but thank you that you think I do.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Randy. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

Randy and I would like to thank the folks at Woodford Reserve for sponsoring this episode of the Bourbon Road. Find out more about Woodford Reserve, the distillery and all their products at woodfordreserve.com. Randy, a day at Woodford Reserve Distillery is always a good day, is it not? Hey, just the drive-in, the beauty of the drive-in actually put you in the mood for some urban culture. Urban culture and horses and all things Kentucky. There you go. We had a really good time today. We got to sit down with Elizabeth Pickall. and Elizabeth is the assistant master distiller at Woodford Reserve. She's got a great story. She also takes time to let us sort of inside the world of Elizabeth a little bit to learn more about who she is and you know what she likes to do even when she's not at Woodford.

And I think you know Jim we've talked about this before that she's one of those ladies that just embodies the whole bourbon culture. You know, not only does she like bourbon and can talk to you intelligently about it, but she loves all things equine and you get to find out more about that side of her there and just all things Kentucky. And I think she's going to be a great spokesman for Woodford, you know, and bourbon in general. So yeah, what a wonderful day.

It was really good. It was also nice to have Chris Morris pop in for a few. And as we were discussing, you know, George Washington's distillery, he popped in and Boy told us a great story there.

Yeah, great story. You have to you have to listen up for that.

Yeah, interesting. I think maybe even a lot some things a lot of people didn't know about Woodford's involvement and Brown Foreman's involvement in that whole project. Right, true. Kind of neat stuff. So I think we got to get to it. What do you think? It's going to be a great episode. All right, let's do it. Hello, everybody. I'm Jim Shannon. Randy Minick. And we are the Bourbon Road. And today we are in Woodford County. And Randy, why don't you introduce our guest?

Well, it's, you know, we're in this wonderful looking little building here and I find out this is where the scales used to be. I guess that's the scale house for for the distillery back in the day. But we have a very special guest on this on today and she's a friend of my wife. That's how I met her. And so she became my friend. And then there were horses involved and dogs involved. And so we'll get to all that stuff in a little bit. But, uh, ladies and gentlemen, Elizabeth O'Neill McCall, assistant master distiller head Woodford. And I understand we're going to have a, maybe a special guest on the second half of the show.

That'd be nice. Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

That's great to have you here today. We normally don't waste a whole lot of time up front talking. We usually get right straight to the first pour. So we're kind of excited to hear what you have for us today as first pour.

All right. So for the first pour, I have our flagship, which is Woodford Reserve Distiller Select bourbon. So it's our Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey. It's what we were founded on back in 1996 and it's what the world's fallen in love with Woodford on. So I wanted to share that with you all and drink to that.

I'm kind of excited. Well, you've already got glasses poured for us. So why don't we go ahead and get to appreciating this bourbon and we'll talk a little bit about it.

I'm seeing a plethora of glasses.

I'm not sure which side is which. The ones in the front will be your distillers like bourbon. So this bourbon, just to talk about this and talk about the fact that this is our flagship. And I mean, Woodford's doing so well and it's now beloved around the world and growing its global presence. And the reason why people fell in love with this bourbon is because it's balanced and it's complex. There are over 212 flavors in this glass. So when you sit down to nose this, I mean, it's a never ending journey of just experiencing flavor. So you can really sip and savor this and just enjoy. And it's what I consider the gold standard of Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey.

You're not expecting us to come up with 210, right?

No, 212.

So what's typical for your average guest here at the distillery when they sit down and they start taking a whiff of this? Are they able to pick up two or three?

Well, so I always tell people, you know, tasting Woodford is like taking a look at a diamond in the sunlight. You know, you have where you've got the beautiful color of this and you know it's bourbon, so you know a diamond is a diamond, it's a stone. but then there are times when the light reflects off of that diamond, you see different colors. And the same thing with Woodford Reserve, where all five areas of flavor are represented in perfect balance. So sometimes you pick it up and you make it sweet aromatics first, and that's going to be your vanilla, some of those caramel notes that you'll notice maple syrup notes and there. But then other times, get the baking spice and that cinnamon clove character, or maybe the woods really presenting itself this time, or the fruit coming across, or the grain notes. It just depends on your mood, what's happening in the air that day, the time of the season, what's going to present And that's what makes it so wonderful for not only sipping, but you can enjoy it in any cocktail. You can enjoy it with any food. I mean, we sit down and we do dinners all the time with a nice, healthy pour of our bourbon and pair it with the food items and go back and forth with the food. And it helps to elevate the food you're tasting. And then the food will complement the Woodford and explode those flavors too. So it's just really a great, great bourbon.

Well, and that's why today's special for me is because you and Chris, during a little presentation over here, actually introduced me to pairing bourbon with food. So when you're fairly new to bourbon, you don't think anything about something like that there. And then you created a monster because you did that with Julie, my wife, and now her bourbon-infused French toast is to die for.

So picking up notes on the nose, a little bit of sweetness and an oak, but also just a hint of orange. Is that one of those? Oh yeah, orange.

There's orchard fruit. So I'm getting apple and some cherry notes now. And really as it sits, that brown sugar cinnamon spice, there's a little hint of pepper, definitely some beautiful toasted oak, a little floral. So think of like a honeysuckle type note, rose petal. It's all, sits there. And then, and what I love is to sip and then to actually let it just sit on your palate and that finish and noticing as it dilutes down on your palate, that more notes keep showing themselves. So it's, it's really a whiskey that you can just sip and savor.

That's complex. Yes. Let's taste it. Cheers.

And it really just, the nuttiness that comes through on the end, that malt note there is just, it's beautiful and it's such a signature taste of Woodford Reserve.

Yeah, I kind of like this. So I've had bourbons that kind of work their way back a little bit. This one kind of just presents itself across the entire tongue at once, it seems like for me.

Oh, yeah.

And it's really, really good. Not as sweet as I thought it was going to be after the nose. I thought it might be a little sweeter and I've had one before.

Well, in Woodford, so our grain recipe for our bourbon is 72% corn, 18% rye and 10% malted barley. So when you get that 18% rye in there, rye bread, you think of rye bread, it's spicy. It's got that character. So that we add that level 18% rye into the recipe and it really gives you a nice kick of spice in there. And then of course you've got the malts in there that gives kind of that nutty character. And it's something that from a flavor standpoint, it's just beautiful.

Yeah, so this is, what's the proof on this?

This is 90.4.

90.4.

All the Woodford Reserve products that you will see are going to be presented at 90.4 proof. The only one you can get that's not at 90.4 proof is our batch proof and that comes out in the spring. It's sort of a part of our master's collection, so it's in that pot still shaped bottle and that comes out every spring and it'll be a different batch proof, just given that it's whatever the batch tells us it's going to be. And that was around 123 proof this past year or this past spring. So you can see Woodford on steroids. It's bold and big and it's not in balance because of that proof. When we get this down to around that 90 proof point is where you see Woodford Reserve balanced and complex.

And it's right in my range.

That's why Woodford products are some of my favorite business because even you might, you might say that this drinks a little less than 90 proof, a little, I think, I think it does. Yeah. Yeah. Once you get past the acclamation, it does.

It's gentle. You know, we have our own Coopridge, so we're able to play with our barrels. I jokingly call it couture barreling all the time. And where we build a barrel based on whatever brand. So it's fit to bring out flavors that we want. So we can season the wood for whatever amount of time we want to. And we'll season for, we'll do a nine month seasoning on our barrels to really soften the wood and get rid of some of those tannins that may make it appear to be harsher in the mouth. Whereas when you let that season, it really softens it, gives you a great flavor profile in your wood. And then we can toast. purpose so toasting is just heating up the wood without setting it on fire and we'll do that for 10 minutes and that really helps to make it a little sweeter and pull out some of those notes because that's what you're doing and then when you char it we'll do a 25 second char and to caramelize the wood sugars.

What number? Three?

We don't do a number. It's all timing. It's all timing. Awesome. Yeah. Cause we don't have like a list that people pull up and say, okay, we'd like to order this, that, and the other. We don't do that. I mean, we only make barrels for our brands at Brown Forman. And so everything's done on a very brand individual basis.

Well, we'll keep sipping on this. The finish is very nice on this. I'm enjoying it very much. I'm going to keep raising my glasses as we talk, but I'd like to give our listeners an opportunity to kind of get to know you a little bit. And so for this first half of the show, I think we'd like to just kind of do a little bit of a deep dive into Elizabeth and learn more about you. And in the second half, we'll talk more about what you do here at Wilford. Sound good?

Hold on everybody. It's really exciting.

It's like, I know you, but I don't know you if that makes sense. So, um, you know, cause there's like a bunch of questions. I mean, did you grow up around here? Where did you grow up?

Well, that's a good question. So I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio actually, and moved down to Louisville, Kentucky when I was in fifth grade. So I've done a huge majority of my grownup, here in Kentucky and in Louisville specifically. It's interesting being in Kentucky and having parents that aren't Kentuckians. I don't have some of the strong roots I think that some of the Kentuckians have, but my husband's family is all from Kentucky. I think just being here, Kentucky is such a welcoming place and it's really like a warming kind of place. We have people visit us all the time here at the distillery and they say people in Kentucky are so friendly and kind. And I've just embraced it. I mean, being here since I was a kid, it's like Kentucky's home, but I'll never forget Cincinnati. I love my Cincinnati roots.

How old were you when you came down from Cincinnati?

So about, I guess you're 10, nine, 10 years old.

Oh, it's a tough time to move.

Yeah. I mean, well, my brother had it worse because he was going into eighth grade.

Oh, yeah.

Really tough time to move.

Yeah, just discovering some girls and probably had a girlfriend, I guess.

What were you going to grow up to be when you were in fifth grade? I doubt that most fifth graders go, I'm going to grow up and I'm going to promote Woodford products.

Woodford wasn't even a brand yet when I moved here. It wasn't until the following year that it actually launched and the world got to know Woodford Reserve. When I was in fifth grade, I was riding horses. I have this poster actually that I had to write down what would be your ideal day. This just gives you a really good picture of who I am because it hasn't changed much since then. Honestly, if I had my way and I knew money wasn't a thing, I would have been at a barn working with horses. My ideal day was to wake up early, go out to the barn, ride. Then it was like, go do, you know, hang out with my dog, maybe go to the pool, then do the stuff with my family. I mean, it was like, it's all the things that I do now. I mean, I don't go to the pool really, but I hang out, I go to the barn. I like to clean the house and do things. I mean, I think it really was. And it's like, of all the things you could do, that's your ideal day. Like that was my ideal day.

Did you do any sports?

I rode horses always, competitively. And then I played field hockey in high school.

Okay. Hunter jumper, I suppose?

I was a hunter jumper when I was younger. And then as I got older, I graduated to the, well, I shouldn't say graduated, but I moved over to three-day venting.

Oh, wow. Like the Rolex or the Land Rover.

Yeah. Rolex, now Land Rover, three-day vent. Yes.

Any accolades?

Oh, well, so my horse, Cody Ko and I, he's now 24. And he and I competed a lot back in like, you know, 2009, 10, that kind of period through 11 and 12. And we won a lot. And we went to the American Venting Championships, we ended up in 13th place. because of my mistake. So on cross country, you know, you always want to, you have an optimum time, which is like, so say it's like four minutes, whatever seconds. I was in a three way tie for eighth place in the championships, which was a huge deal. And so I, we were going and I actually, we went over the time by 0.4 seconds, but it gave us so many penalty points for every point of a second you were over. Yeah. And so we didn't and you want to be under not over because you get penalized if you're over. But if you're under, you didn't get pence. So anyways, it always haunted me and we ended up in 13th place, still at home with the ribbons. It's good. But I'm extremely competitive. So it like plays over my mind. But my horse is amazing.

And yeah, Cody, he is a really cool horse.

Yeah.

Um, got to haul him around a little bit and he's, he's a good holler and pretty mellow guy and a beautiful horse folks, you know, but were you always into thoroughbreds?

Um, no, I think I didn't even know about what breeds they were. I just wanted to be on horses ever since I was little. There was this TV show on the Disney channel called Avonlea and it was like a turn of the century show where everybody rode horses everywhere. And I was like, I want to do that. I want to just be able to get on my horse and go ride around. And that was my, my objective was just to be able to go ride horses. And, and then my mom found me a place to go take lessons and That's what blossomed from that. And it's been a passion of mine ever since.

So why didn't you go professional?

It takes money. Yeah, it takes a lot of money to do that. Money and just the, that was not the, I am my, both my mother and my father's daughter, but the practicality of that, I need stability, a good income and just something that you could, you know, benefits too. You know, like that was a big thing.

So as you got older in high school age, did you kind of have an idea of what you wanted to do?

No. I mean, I went from thinking like, I'll be a teacher because that was like, I knew I could go to school, get that job and like have a, you know, have a job afterwards that I thought I could do it. Then I was like, maybe I go to business school. Maybe I do. And I just really, and then I thought I'd be a therapist. So I got my undergrad degree was in psychology. My master's is in counseling psychology. I thought I'm going to have an office like this one and a couch. and people will come and and we'll do therapy and it'll be great and once I got into that I realized that really wasn't what I thought it would be and so as soon as I heard about that I hadn't even graduated from graduate school yet And I heard about the job at Brown Foreman and the job and it was a very entry level job. I mean, it was a sensory technician. Um, I was told when I was told about the job, they were like, well, you know, you'd be recruiting people to do the taste panel and, and it's for, you know, it's very entry level. You're kind of overeducated for the job. but you should apply anyways." And I was like, I mean, I don't know anything about sensory or beverage alcohol. So I think I, I mean, yes, I have a good degree, but I still have a lot to learn in that space. So I interviewed for that and I ended up getting the job.

So when did you have your first taste of bourbon?

Oh, gosh. I probably drank out of my dad's glass when I was little. So, I mean, I know my dad was always he was like the guy who came home from work and had a glass of bourbon for dinner.

Yeah, it's just cocktail or whatever they call it.

I mean, that was just the norm in my house. And I know that I had that. But, you know, I had when I started at Brown Form and I came out of college where no money and I was drinking cheap beer and didn't understand, like I didn't drink anything without mixing it. So I didn't understand brown spirits and what you do with them and how you drink them and how to appreciate them. And then when I started working at Brown Foreman, my world was expanded to understanding and to be able to appreciate all the complexities that bourbon has to offer and other spirits too, because I worked with tequilas and I worked with our vodkas and everything. So it was a learning experience. Sure.

So are you a country girl or city girl?

I'm a hybrid.

A hybrid. So you live, where do you live?

I live in Louisville.

She lives in the Rick house over here, up there on the third floor.

I've heard people say based on my Instagram feed, she's like, Oh, you don't, you don't live at a horse farm? I was like, no, but thank you that you think I do. No, I live, you know, in the kind of the, the urban part of Louisville. I mean, not really the East side of Louisville. It's a good compromise for my husband and I. I mean, I would be happy living out in the country area, I think, but he's more of the city type. So I, you know, we, I go out to the barn. I love getting dirty and I will, I mean, my, a friend of mine, I was at the barn this morning checking on my horse and we were joking that, you know, we've got good immune systems because I grew up riding horses and you didn't wash your hands before you eat the pizza or sandwich you brought out or whatever, you just dive in and eat it. I'm very comfortable getting dirty and hanging out and sweating. Chris and I have gone to our fancy galas and things where you have to get all dressed up.

Put on the pearls and hang out with Bobby Filet and Wolfgang.

The derby events, you're so fancy and looking so great. I feel like I can do it all, but my most comfortable is just getting dirty and whatever.

I saw you on TV here during the derby, and I was sitting there going, man, that ought to be awesome, sitting there in front of 165,000 people. And you get to go, hey, and welcome to the Derby. And I'm here with Woodford. And what's that like?

That was that's amazing. I love it's an adrenaline rush. I mean, before we're going out and this year, Kristen get to be the first year we did it. We're standing out in the pouring down rain. You know, we're all looking so nice and we're freezing. It's raining. And you're just your adrenaline's going because, yes, you're in front of all those people at Churchill Downs. But those people at Churchill Downs, And we've all been there. They're not all fully paying attention to what I'm doing down there. But it's you're on live television with nine million people watching at that time. And if you screw this up, you're in trouble. You know, like everybody sees that. So it's a big adrenaline rush, but it's a humongous honor to get to do that. getting to represent the state of Kentucky, Woodford Reserve, bourbon, horse racing, all the things in that moment is just such a great honor to do. And something I'll never forget. If I wasn't allowed to do it starting tomorrow, I would remember I'd be devastated, but I would remember that moment for the rest of my life.

event of a lifetime, I guess. Right. Awesome. So you also spend some of your time contributing to some nonprofit activities. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what you do?

Yeah. So a couple years ago now, I live in Louisville. I wanted to be able to give back to my community. I've got a good job and I'm so grateful for all those things I have in my life and I wanted to be able to give back and just show thanks for all the things. So I looked for a charity that I could relate to and that had things I like. So I found Green Hill Therapy and it's wonderful because the big punchline is it's children and horses.

You can't sell any better. I'm the director of a nonprofit as well, and it's hard to keep up with a horse and a kid. And a kid. It is.

Yeah. And so I found out about Green Hill Therapy, and I got elected to be on the board. And so I've served on the board there for, I guess, going on seven years now. I can't believe it's been that long. And when I started, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I just knew I wanted to try to help in any way I could. And so through that, I mean, I've learned a lot. Getting involved in a board is a great way to learn about leadership, but it's also a great way to get involved with your community and understand things that are happening in your community. And if you have the ability to do that, whether it's on a board level or at a volunteer level, I always encourage anybody to do that because it's really good. But Green Hill is just wonderful because it's a great place. My horse, He's, we're retired from competing, so that's how Randy got to know him, is that he was a therapy horse there for a couple months.

Who, me or Cody, Cody Coe?

Cody Coe. Yeah, so my horse's name is Cody Coe. Yeah, he was a therapy horse there for a while and, you know, loved it. And it's just great to see what they do for kids, because it's a physical and occupational therapy for children who have just special needs and they may not be able to move around the same way that other people would. What drew me to Green Hill is that you have kids with very severe physical limitations and see very sterile environments all the time to try to get them to get help and to help themselves and to get healthy. And going to Green Hill, they're doing all the things to help themselves get healthy. But they're not in a sterile environment. For all they know or care, they're going out there to play, to ride their horse, to see how Freya is doing. They're going to have fun and they're getting so much therapeutic benefit. And all the staff that works out there are amazing. Our therapists are wonderful. They really care about the kids. And so it's just something that you feel good being a part of.

Sounds like a really good cause, Randy. We'll make sure that we get a link in the bio. We'll also make sure we put something in there in the blog about it.

Okay. I'll work on that. And that's how I met you. My wife was a therapist out there and actually running the equine program as well. And something to note is Green Hill Therapy is the only place in this area that's doing what they call hippotherapy. Now, when Julie told me she was doing hippotherapy, I was like, honey, I didn't know hippos needed any therapy. What's up with that? But hippo coming from the Greek, hippopotamus means water horse. Basically, they're pretty quick in the water. And now when I started getting into it, it's a lot different than therapeutic riding. A lot of people do therapeutic riding and Green Hill is one of the few in the area that does hippotherapy, which is a whole lot more involved.

Yeah, it's the physical movement of the horse. The horse is basically like a machine that you would get on to do physical therapy, except for it's a horse, which not only has that physicality of it, the way that they move, but then there is always, you can't dismiss the emotional piece to that and that kind of side of it.

And horses internalize a lot of that stuff. You see the look on the kids' faces.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, that is priceless. It's really good. Well, let me ask you a question. This is one we like to ask from time to time. If you could share a glass of bourbon with anybody, past or present, sit down and have a talk with them, who would it be? Oh, God.

Let's put Chris out of the equation here, okay?

I get to sit down and have a glass of bourbon with Chris Morris all the time. I'm a pretty lucky person with that. Oh, goodness. I mean, past or present.

Well, two or three even.

I would love to, Michelle Obama, she is somebody that I've read her book and I was just so inspired by her story. She's quite amazing. And then of course, Oprah Winfrey is like, I love Oprah. Vince Vaughn's been the person I'd always most want to have a beer with.

Which character?

The one from Wedding Crashers, because he just seems cool. And then, of course, just some of the great coaches out there just to hear their stories. You've got, why am I blinking? Don't give up. Don't ever give up. Valvano. So there's just so many great people that you would love to sit down and pick their brains.

It's hard to pick just one.

It's hard to pick just one, but yeah.

I've still been working on this question.

It's a hard question. I wish I would have prepped for that one more.

With that glass of bourbon puts you on equal playing field with them. You're just sitting there sipping on bourbon and just talking about whatever it is comes up. That's great. We're coming up on the break, but I would like to ask one last question just before we go ahead and pause here. And that is when you have friends or family coming in from out of town, Cincinnati or wherever, and you've got a day or two to spend with them here in the general area, where do you go to eat, play, drink? Where are a couple of places that our listeners might like to

to go hang out. Well, of course, I always direct people to come visit Woodford Reserve.

Sure.

Got to do that.

Well, really, visiting Woodford, if you want to get a good taste of just great Kentucky, what people think of when you think of horse country and bourbon, coming here and driving here. It gives you that. And then, of course, I always direct people to Wallace Station or any of Chef Weida Michael's restaurants because she's amazing. Not only because I love her as a person, but her food is is amazing. It's delicious and it's creative and she's always focusing on local farms. The meat's local, the produce is local, so that's always really good. And it's always a Kentucky Southern twist.

We need to get her on the show sometime, I think.

We need to get Weida on the show. And she always cooks with Woodford Reserve.

Oh, wow.

That would be okay. Walla Station is really close to here, so I'll recommend people do that. Visit one of the horse farms. You can find those tours online. But in terms of being in Louisville, there's so many great things at Frasier History Museum. You can see the start of the Bourbon Trail. They celebrate Bourbon heritage there and just learn about why Bourbon is so big in Kentucky and what that is. There's the Louisville Slugger Museum, Churchill Downs. And then of course, the restaurant scene in Louisville is just blowing up. So there's so many endless restaurants that you can go to. Name one. Harvest, Market Street and Love Harvest. That's a really good one. Ceviche, I always love ceviche. And there's Garage Bar, Butchertown Grocery.

Yeah, Butchertown Grocery, right?

So many, 21C, Proof on Main, I guess, so yeah.

Well, we're going to keep sipping on our Woodford here and we're going to take a short break. When we come back, you can introduce us to the second pour and we'll take a deep dive into what you do here at Woodford. Sound good?

Sounds good.

All right. Randy and I would like to thank the folks at Woodford Reserve for sponsoring this episode of The Bourbon Road. Find out more about Woodford Reserve, the distillery, and all their products at woodfordreserve.com.

All right, welcome back to the show with Elizabeth McCall, assistant master distiller here at Woodford. And I understand for the second pour, you are going to talk to us about one of my all time favorites.

Yes. So what we have for the second pour is Woodford Reserve Double Oaked. So this is a product, I mean, this is what I fell in love with, just drinking bourbon on the rocks or meat. This was really my kind of gateway into that. And the way that we make this, this is a product that, so we just talked about the first pour, we were having Woodford Reserve Distiller Select Bourbon. And it starts out, so double oak starts out as that this balanced complex bourbon and then we take it after its age that five to seven years and then we age it in a second barrel. So we talked a little bit about our couture barreling. Well, we really kick it up with couture barreling when it comes to the double oak because what we're doing is we're going to take that 10 minute toast on the Distiller Select bourbon barrel, and we're going to crank it up to 40 minutes. So we'll do 40 minute toast, and then we just do a five to 10 second char. And so it's still a new charred oak barrel. So when you buy your double oak, you're still getting a Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey, but it just is now out of balance. So when you nose that, It's sweet aromatic forward. It's only sitting in that second barrel for up to 12 months. So that 12 months is really giving them that kick and the flavor and pushing it. So it's out of balance. And now we're saying, Hey, you're going to get sweet aromatics first. But what's beautiful about this product is that it's still got the new beautiful dark fruit notes. There's spice notes in there. They still got the obviously the wood and then the grain notes come through too. So you're not losing anything. It still is Woodford Reserve. You just see, we're gonna show you vanilla, caramel, butterscotch, all that maple syrup first. And then you dig and you go, oh, okay, there's the fruit. Oh, there's the spice, it's there.

The color was one of the things that got me to start off just a little bit deeper and richer. It's that next level.

It's a beautiful color. It's got a great viscosity to it. It really coats your palette nicely. And you talk about just sipping and savoring. I mean, this is one for that. And you know what I love is like this came out in 2012 and when Chris Morris, you know, introduced it to the world, it was this is a dessert bourbon. You know, we're going to put this on the dessert side of the menu. Nobody had done that before and nobody had designed a bourbon to be there before. And this is designed specifically for that.

Now I've noticed, now this pour and the one you introduced as the first pour, both of those expressions were poured at the same time. But I'm noticing on this one that there's not as much ethanol on the nose. Is that a feature of the fact that it's been sitting here a while or is that normal for a double oat?

I think that, well, what you're seeing, so they're both presented at 90.4 proof. So it's not a proof difference, but what you're seeing is that because there's so much sweetness, it kind of has a way of masking that ethanol character, but it's still there. And I know that it was poured a little bit, but you could go back to your Distiller Select bourbon sample and still see There's a little bit more because basically you're just kind of, um, because of the sweetness of the wood, it kind of softens that, that ethanol character, but there's no sugar in this. It's not, it's just the character of the wood that has sweetness.

It does smell a little more syrupy if you can say syrupy is a smell. I think it does.

Well, if you look at the legs, they don't run away quick. Yep. So you know that there's, I don't know, what am I trying to say? Oily.

It's almost like viscosity is just a little more thickness.

So what does toasting just for people who don't understand all the barrel engineering, what does toasting do to a barrel?

Well, when you toast it, you're not setting it on fire. So you're basically taking the wood and it's like sticking the way you stick bread into your toaster oven at home. And you notice how when you put your bread in, it's raw. And then when you bring it out after it's toasted, it blossoms all the sweetness and it really brings out the flavor of the grains in the bread. So much better than if you just had them when it was just out of the bag. So when you toast a wood, it's the same concept where you're really just blossoming that character of the wood. For double oak, there's a layer of the wood called lignin, and lignin is really the glue that holds the wood together, and lignin has a lot of vanillin in it, and vanillin is obviously these sweet notes we're getting. When you purposely treat the wood in a way to express that, you're really getting that to show nicely. And of course it brings out the color too, that red light of the wood.

Yeah, we've all taken sips already, but I want to say that the sweetness is up front a little bit more on this one, it seems like. Is that normal?

Yeah. And I mean, you have more concentration of sweetness on the front of your palate. So it's going to highlight itself there just because this is a sweeter bourbon. But it is one that, you know, now It was intended to be a neat pour after dinner, but we see it being used in cocktails all the time. And it's a compliment when you see your product being presented in a cocktail or even in culinary. There's a restaurant in Indianapolis where they pour this on top of their bread pudding. I mean, they just pour a healthy pour of double looked bread pudding. Yeah. And I mean, bread pudding's delicious. And then that just elevates it. But, you know, I'll do, I've done chocolate chip cookies with double oaked. I take out the vanilla and I just put in Woodford double oaked in there and it, they're, they're delicious. Because to me, I mean, I think the finish on that, like when you let this just sit on your palate, you think of if you've ever just eaten cookie dough and it's the brown sugar, the butter and the vanilla, when you've got that and you take a taste of it, that's what this tastes like as it's sitting on my palate. So it's a very familiar, nice flavor.

So all we need is like a piece of chocolate right now. We have us a chocolate chip cookie, right?

There's so much happening in this glass. That's really, um, it's, it's, it's a beautiful, beautiful bourbon.

One of my favorites.

So how long ago was it that you started working at Woodford?

So I started with our parent company in 2009, the Brown Foreman. And then I started training to be master taster in 2014. And by 15, I got the official title, Chris dubbed me master taster for Woodford Reserve. And I was working with Old Forrester at the time. And then in 2016, I was moved out here to work specifically on Woodford Reserve as a senior quality control specialist and master taster for the brand. And now, um, and then just last year I was, uh, titled assistant master distiller for Woodford reserve.

So what's the, what's a daily, what's kind of the daily routine for a master taster? There's a lot of people out there wondering that.

Oh my god, do you just drink all day? Is that what you do? And I'm like, well, you know, I really, um, so a day in life, there's no normal day in the life. Number one rule of being in this role is there's no normal day. And, um, but, you know, I think that really my job entails that, First of all, the quality of our, of Woodford is number one in my brain. So I am on call for our production team to call me, whether I'm traveling or not, you know, I'm, they can pick up the phone, they can call me, they can text me and say, Hey, we have this question about X, Y, and Z. How can you help us? Uh, so I'm always available to help. So quality is number one. Um, I think number two, a brand ambassadorship and just sharing the story of Woodford reserve. So that's a big thing. And then innovation. I'm learning so much from Chris Morris on innovation. And then, of course, just general production. So, you know, I'll be out here some days and I'll work with the team and we'll go through. I'll be sampling barrels. I'll be talking through a quality issue. I'll be hosting a VIP group. I'll be out traveling to different markets to host dinners and work on culinary pieces and that sort of thing. it's a plethora of different sorts of fun things I get to do in this role. Something that was really interesting that I got to do a couple years ago now, I went to Mount Vernon and got to work with the distillers at Mount Vernon. And Chris had worked on it many years before, 10 years ago, because it was the 10th anniversary that I was going back for. So Chris Um, he, he was like, you have to go. This was an amazing experience. And so Chris and, and I'll have Chris tell his time there, but I, what I love, what I always tell people about is, I mean, it was an overall just amazing experience. And I'm so grateful that we have the technology we have today. So we don't have to make whiskey. Exactly the same way, like chopping wood and all that, that's really involved. I didn't have to wear the period clothing, but Chris had to wear the little britches and the three-cornered hat and all that.

So just for the listeners who are not up on their history, Mount Vernon is George Washington's home.

Yes, and he had the distiller and he was the largest distiller in the US during his time.

And another thing for our listeners, Chris Morris has just joined us. Just joined us. Welcome to the show, Chris. Thank you. Good to have you with us. So you guys were there and he was in period attire.

He was 10 years prior to me. Let's go back 10 years.

And what happened? I mean, they just got an idea in their head to let's go ahead and see if we can't

Well, it goes back beyond the 10 years. Elizabeth was there for the 10th anniversary. We go back in the early 2000s and the ladies of Mount Vernon, who are the owners of Mount Vernon, it's not owned by we, the United States of America, are tax owners. It's a privately held home. had done some research and they had discovered in public school textbooks that George Washington's role in the history of our country had been diminished. People like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe had more lines of text than George Washington did, which was still incredible. They needed a way to bring George Washington back into relevance. And one of the things that had long been forbidden to talk about was the fact, as Elizabeth just said, George Washington was the largest distiller in the United States because of course we know whiskey is evil and it's a sin and everything, which of course is no longer a publicly held notion. So it had not been talked about. So now it was decided, let's talk about his involvement in whiskey because whiskey was becoming cool at the time. Retired Brown Foreman executive James Breyther was the chairman of the Distilled Sprits Council of the United States, who was also looking for a PR opportunity to talk about American whiskey. So, it was a marriage made in heaven. Mount Vernon needed a story. The Distilled Spirits Council needed a story. Let's team up and bring George Washington's distillery back to life. So, our parent company, Brown Foreman, kick-started this project with a million dollars. Wow. to begin archaeology at the site and to begin a gradual introduction of the George Washington Distillery and its product. The story is quite complex. It's been written about recently in some magazines and none of them are telling the full story because they're talking to people who were not there in the beginning. I was there in the beginning. A lot of fun. Elizabeth and I in various training programs here, our Bourbon Academy Whiskey Immersion, we're doing the very things we were doing at Mount Vernon, such as mashing in, let's call them whiskey barrels, mashing and fermenting in whiskey barrels, just as you do at Mount Vernon, because that's the way our ancestors did. We started learning that here at Woodford Reserve. We were learning how to do that. based on a document that we paid $81,000 for. I'm looking at it across the room here, the original letters of George Washington's distillery, how to make whiskey in 1799. We made the beer here. We fermented wood reserve mash, wood reserve yeast, transported it in truck to Mount Vernon And Vindome had produced a replica still based on a still that's at the Smithsonian Institution of one of George Washington's stills. There were five stills in the distillery. And we distilled over open fires out by Doge's Creek on the site. Woodford Reserve mash. Well, it was his recipe, but we had mashed it here in our yeast strain. So the very first whiskey produced at Mount Vernon since 1803 came from Woodford Reserve. And we barreled it in small barrels, and it's Jimmy Russell, Lincoln Henderson, Jerry Dalton, you know, the bigs of the industry. And I was junior person. And we sold that whiskey years later at auction for the most expensive price ever paid for a bottle of American whiskey. That first bottle, which we bottled by hand, I hand wrote the labels. for $100,000. And I've always said, that's really cool. We started that at Woodford Reserve. The Woodford Reserve Yeast is in the most expensive bottle of whiskey ever sold in our industry's history. And Marvin Shankin bought that bottle at auction and turned around and donated it back to Mount Vernon, which was a very classy thing for him to do. So yes, we worked there for eight solid years, taking the distillery from archeological dig to full reconstruction. and taking us smashing outside, distilling over an open fire outside to moving into the distillery where Elizabeth worked undercover with the five stills and a little more elaborate period authentic equipment. But she did not have to wear a colonial dress and petticoat. and bonnet like we were forced to.

You were forced to wear a petticoat? Really, Chris?

No, that was some of the other guys. Because we were open to the public where people could come in and watch us work there. It was announced every week. I mean, every year, every there was a week, the master to solicit from Kentucky were there. And so the fun thing is they could not find the Mount Vernon people could not find breeches to fit Jimmy Russell. Okay. And so Jimmy got to wear khakis along with his, his, um, poofy shirt, like on Seinfeld and the vest and the tricorder hats and everything. And, and, um, so I wore the breeches and the stockings like everybody else did the first year. And of course this was all photographic record. And the next year I thought, wait a minute, I'm the master distiller with reserve. You know, I'm important. I don't work here. I'm not an employee. I'm not going to wear those pants anymore. I'm not going to wear those breeches.

I will not wear those pants.

They're weird things.

Weird, uncomfortable, it's hot.

I'm going to wear my khakis like Jimmy, but I'll wear the poofy shirt and the vest and the funny hat. That's okay. And all the other distillers are like,

You can't do that.

Yes, I can. And I did and they didn't. So I'll tell you, it was interesting.

So you guys used Woodford yeast. Yes. What did it taste like? That's my big question. What did George Washington's whiskey taste like?

Well, it was a rye whiskey. It was not a bourbon whiskey because bourbon whiskey, as we know it today, did not exist during his lifetime. And It was a very good... The product we made, I thought, was very, very good considering all the trials and tribulations and the unknowns that we had to fill our way through. As Elizabeth said, talking about modern equipment, here I'm with Jimmy Russell. We're going, how do you judge proof when you don't have any equipment, not even a hydrometer or thermometer. They hadn't been introduced into the industry yet. How do you judge proof? How do you do anything without modern equipment? Well, they obviously did. We have to figure it out. So we're finding out that we have to rely on our sense of smell and taste, and more importantly, feeling the spirit if it comes off the still, off the cooling coil, which was like, wow. So here we are learning together. How do you regulate heat? You know, we can turn our steam valves and set the temperature on the still at, say, 198 degrees, 0.3. Boom, there you have a fire. How do you regulate the heat? Open the door on the firebox. Close the door. Don't have the log on. Don't put a log on. Wow. Labor intensive, basically. And our ancestors knew what they were doing because the people before them said, this is how you do it. And that's what we're doing today with Elizabeth and I. I learned from my predecessor and I'm passing it on to her and she'll pass it on to her apprentice years from now. So I think that's the beauty of our industry. Yes, we have scientific equipment. We have far more learning and knowledge than our ancestors did, but they evidently made a darn good product without the capabilities we have today. And I'm proud to think and say that we're doing exactly what they did with a little more help, a little more aids, but we're still doing our Kentucky bourbon, our wood reserve is the same processes, the same procedures as our forebearers used. We're just probably doing it a little bit better. A little better tools. And that's the beauty of our industry that we're still following a time-honored tradition and craft and probably just done a lot better.

That was a great story. And I imagine it was just an absolutely amazing experience.

It was. The accumulation of everything was the grand opening. And I've got these wonderful photographs. George Washington's distiller was John Anderson. He was a Scotsman. and how things come together, Prince Andrew, His Royal Highness Prince Andrew, Queen Elizabeth's son, was going to be in Washington DC. And it was thought, what a great PR moment. And it was to have him at the ribbon cutting ceremony of the distillery because he's His Royal Highness of Great Britain and Scotland and John Anderson all ties in together. So he's coming. Secret Service, FBI, M1I6, whatever the British Secret Service agents is, you know. all this cool stuff. The governor of Virginia, the United States Army, Fife and Drum Corps in their colonial uniforms. The press, massive. We're there early in the morning, stoking the fires, cooking the mash, everything. It's a hot day. This is at the end of the summer. We're smoky, we're dirty. We've eaten this, like Elizabeth said, we've eaten sandwiches without washing our hands or anything. It's late afternoon and we're all fairly grumpy. We've been told by the protocol officers of the embassy and everything, bow and don't shake his hand and don't make eye contact and all this kind of stuff. We're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we're way down in the corner of the lot next to the open fire that's still, cause we're still doing this outside. Cause you know, the distillery is being grand opening and there is a platform with all the bunting and his Royal Highness and the governor and the British ambassador and all these people. And we're feeling pretty left out. then the crowd starts coming towards us and Prince Andrew is in the forefront. He's coming down to see us. Wow. And he just so happens to walk right up to me and all these microphones stick out and all these cameras and this is quoted in the Washington Post. And there's pictures of the two of us side by side. And he's in a very expensive suit and I'm in my poofy shirt. And he says, what are you fellows doing? And I very articulately said, we're making whiskey. Is it any good? And now we have the flat stand, the coil, little drip of spirit going into this crock jug, like we imagine Martha had, of course, who knows? And I said, stick your finger down there and taste it.

That's what you say to a royal.

Oh, first of all, I stuck my hand out and he shook it and then he put his hand behind his back because he knew he wasn't supposed to do that. He said, I shan't. My first thought was, is that a word? Not in Kentucky. I said, go ahead, stick your finger down there and taste it. I shan't. He turns around and walks away. The other guy started punching me. Did you just say what you said? You know, you dumb, like, I don't know. It just popped in my mind. And so that's quoted in the paper and everything. So I told the Royal Highness to stick his finger down there and taste it. And then later on, you know, he doesn't drink, you know, and like, oh, well, no one told us.

I didn't get my PR briefing.

Yeah, that doesn't matter. Well, he drinks champagne. Oh, that's fine. Anyway, it was a fun day. And that's why I thought it was just so important because I've had the privilege, as Elizabeth has had, of mashing like it was done in the 18th century, of distilling, not like your family, illegally over open fires legally because we were covered by the Virginia ABC and the BATF at the time, to distill over an open fire in a copper pot still. The dream of a distiller to do it the way it used to be done. That was just a terrific experience and it took us over eight years to do that. So it was a great learning experience for me. And hopefully Elizabeth and I will be invited back to do it in the future. But again, she was able to do it two years ago and it was a great experience.

So I guess it's a good thing not to have to wear a petticoat if you're going to be around an open fire, right? Exactly. That was not a good thing.

There's so many reasons not to have to wear the whole attire.

Yeah. I guess they didn't have a choice back then, but I wouldn't want to be standing anywhere near flames.

Yeah, that would be challenging.

We had our issues with flames, too. That's another story. Another podcast.

Yeah, that's another podcast. We'll have you on again. You can tell us that story there, Chris.

We really appreciate that. That's a great insight into what happened. Well, thank you all, and enjoy the rest of the program with Elizabeth. Thanks for letting me step in.

All righty. So at least you didn't have to wear a petticoat.

No. Yeah, I didn't have to do any of that.

But I'm sure that when you are the assistant master distiller and you're a lady, in a somewhat man-dominated world, I would say, that there's probably some special challenges. Would you like to speak to that for us?

You know, I mean, I feel very fortunate because there definitely are the challenges and I've had the experience you walk into a room and they're like, got a funny look like, you're going to taste this? I get the question all the time, are you old enough to drink? Are you sure? And I'm like, yeah, I promise I am. It's just funny and you just laugh it off and keep trudging on. And I always think, and my husband will say this too, he's like, as soon as I start talking, I know a little bit about what I'm talking about. I didn't just get this job just because. So that's kind of your ammo, I guess, if you will. But I've been, to be honest, you know, I feel very fortunate because Brown Forman, our parent company, I was a part of a sensory group that was predominantly all women. And so I've always had a seat at the table. If you want to use that metaphor, I've always been able to voice my opinion and felt very encouraged to Chris Morris has always been a huge supporter of just anything. I mean, any kind of vision or dream like, oh, I want to do this, create, you know, I want to plant red corn and make a red corn bourbon. And he's like, well, let's do it. Let's figure out how to do it. And so I'm always being very encouraged with that. So it's been, and you know, the world's changing and I think that the industry itself is very open and you're seeing a lot more women in these types of roles. It's just being a part, it's really neat to take a step back and acknowledge the fact that I'm a part of that change and that people will, what I'm doing today will encourage young women to when they are in fifth grade and can dream about what their job would be that that women, this will become a norm, that this could be a possible job, that it's not something where, oh, that's probably, you know, some like man doing that job. It's, oh, it's women can do that too. And it just becomes part of the norm. So I look forward to that day and it's really exciting to be a part of that.

I've heard you say in other interviews in the past that, you know, there have been some trailblazing women in the industry and you're more of a trail smoother, I think you said. Yeah. And I think that's an interesting way to put it. So it's kind of being modest and that's a good thing. But I have to say that you are, there's a lot of young ladies who see you and see what you're doing. And how does it feel to be that role model?

It really is such an honor. It took me a while. I remember when I first got the job, I told Chris I didn't want the story to be, I'm in this role because I'm a woman. Like, oh, look, this is Elizabeth and she's a woman and she's the assistant master still. I didn't want that to be the leading line. I wanted it to be I got this job because I had the skill set necessary for the job, not, well, you're a woman and you do this job. And, you know, to talk about trailblazers, I mean, my mom was in the distilling industry. Well, she's worked for Seagrams and she was bottling manager, you know, late seventies through the early eighties. And they didn't even, I mean, my mom was, they didn't have she was like one of the only women in the plant managing union workers. I mean, that took some gusto back in the day. The reason why she left the industry is they didn't have maternity leave policies and that sort of thing. So I feel very fortunate that I had women like my mother who really went through and had some some tough times, but you know, and I do, you know, it is humble to say smoother, but I know I am leading the way a lot and that I am a role model and it's, it's fun and it's something I'm embracing and kind of getting comfortable with it. Oh yeah. I guess I am that.

So when you go to choose product and you're tasting and sampling, you go, what are you looking for? Oh,

Well, when I sit down and taste, I always like, I focus on the finish. I always think about, because a whiskey, you can pick it up and you can nose it and it can have a beautiful nose on it and just, and lots of attributes going on. You can taste it and think it's taste okay, but it's the finish. Once that kind of dissipates off your palate, what are you left with? That's when things start to show themselves and good and bad, you know, you can hide a lot with ethanol, but the ethanol drops off and you're left with just the flavor of the whiskey. And so it should leave you wanting more and to take another sip, you shouldn't go, oh, and then you shouldn't walk away and go, I'm tasting that and I don't like the taste of that. Because for sensory, what it makes me think of is that when we do sensory taste testing, we always cut our product down in proof. So if it's a high proof spirit, we always cut it down to about 40 proof. And what that means is it's going to highlight the good and the bad in there. You can hide a lot with proof. So it's the same thing on your palate. You take a sip, you let the ethanol dissipate. It's going to show you the good and the bad. So when you're finished, it should leave you wanting more and be a good positive experience.

The finish.

That's the hook that causes a bottle to become empty.

Exactly. It is. It really is. It's just something that's enjoyable.

So when you're tasting these barrels, have you ever come across something that just kind of, a single barrel just kind of blew you away or took you by surprise?

Yeah, we've had some, I've done tastings and I love it when you get them, some barrels that are really floral because that's always been an attribute that is a little difficult for me. I feel like I gravitate towards the sweet aromatics and some of those dark fruit notes and Um, so the florals are really fun. And then also sometimes you'll get them and they're just this, I like to say it's like a roller coaster ride of flavor. So it'll take you and you'll still nose it and you've got, you can see like spice and you see sweetness and you're just like, this is cool. And then you take a sip and, and you realize like, oh, this isn't a, this is a journey. This is an experience in a glass. And, and that's really fun when you find those samples.

So plans for the future. What do you see yourself doing down the road? I know you're enjoying the ride now, but you know, is this what you're going to do forever?

We were just talking about this at lunch today. How basically, you know, this is where I hope to be. This is my home. I hope to be here for. throughout my career, I guess, with Woodford Reserve. I feel fortunate that I'm on a brand that I relate to so much personally and professionally. But the thing is, is that Brown Foreman and Woodford Reserve, this role, I have a title, but there's so much that flexibility and mobility I have within this role. And right now I'm still learning. I have so much to learn. I mean, I'm so grateful I get to work with Chris and absorb as much of his knowledge, but also to make it my own and know that I have my own voice and I have an amazing mentor to guide me on this journey. But that there's a lot of room to kind of explore this. So I hope to remain in this sort of title and this work, but to keep growing and learning. I'll never stop learning and never stop pushing the envelope.

Well, Jim, you know, we're we're here at Woodford. You know, it seems like the best thing to do would be to see if they've got anything new around the corner. Yeah. What are you guys cooking up now?

OK, so there's lots of things coming out. Last year, we had the Woodford Reserve Kentucky straight malt whiskey and it hit the shelves. We released that last year, hit the shelves in about June, July, and it was gone real quick. People loved it and it had such great reviews. So that will be back. be looking for that in August, so August 2019. And then releasing is our Kentucky straight wheat whiskey. So Woodford Reserve is going to release a wheat whiskey, not to be confused with the weeded bourbon. This is a wheat whiskey, so it's dominant in wheat grain and it still has rye, malt, and corn in the recipe. So it is very complex, but it's very

Now, is this a new oak barrel whiskey as well?

Yes, so new chard oak. So it is, you know, following all the rules and to be a Kentucky straight wheat whiskey. But what I love is that our grain recipe has the four grains in it. So it adds so much complexity to that, that I think it's going to be a wheat whiskey that people are just going to really fall in love with.

So it'll be a wheat whiskey with a little bit of spice maybe?

It's got spice. It's got some, it's really, it's really fruit forward. So think of like an apple sauce and cinnamon spice and these cooked fruits. And then there's a little bit of just the wheat kind of grain character that comes through really nicely as well. So it's one that you'll, people will be, I think will be surprised by how complex it is and how fruit forward it is.

Wow. It sounds good to sip. It also sounds like it'd be good in a mule.

Yeah. I mean, it's going to be great in cocktails. That's what I think people will be not surprised to see because I think anything we put out is always going to be really delicious. But just how you can play with that in cocktails and use it in classic cocktails and then do riffs on a classic cocktail based on the flavors you find in that glass.

So you've got some appearances and you're traveling a lot, right?

Uh huh.

So where are you going to be here? Let's say this, this is the episode will probably air. Um, yeah, probably the first end of the first week in August. Um, so what have you got coming up in say late August, early September?

So August we've got, I'll be heading out to California for a little bit, for about a week, doing some things out there. And then we've got a few things going on here in Louisville. We'll have Kentucky Bourbon Festival going on. And so we've got a few, I'll be there at the Bourbon Sampler. We have an event that we're hosting with the Kentucky Bourbon Festival. So we'll be there in September. And then, you know, we've got fun projects. One thing that I'm really proud of, I will say this, that we've been working on with the dentry fund and bringing rye grain production back to Kentucky for use in distilling. And so I've got a grain conference that I'm going to in September as well to kind of do a rye tasting of our rye whiskey and just kind of be the spokesperson for the distilling industry there. And I mean, how cool would that be to bring rye for distilling purposes back to Kentucky?

So you say bring it back to Kentucky. So rye was grown here at some time in the past.

I mean, think back, people were distilling whiskey here using all those different grains. I mean, they couldn't source them from anywhere else. They were here. You know, we have the Sanborn maps to know that people were malting barley in Kentucky to make malted barley to have those enzymes for their whiskey grain meshes. So it is something that was happening here. And just due to modern agricultural practices of big soybeans and big corn, and you just Rye became a cover crop and now we source rye from northern regions and in parts of Canada. So how wonderful would it be to reduce our carbon footprint and be more sustainable and support our local Kentucky farmers? I mean, love that idea.

So if I wanted to get in touch with you, I mean, or people wanted to get in touch with you, how would they do that? Social media, Facebook.

Yeah, I'm on Facebook and I'm on Instagram. So I'm on those at the Elizabeth O'Neill McCall. You can find me there. So and reach out.

Awesome. Well, it's been a pleasure having you on the show today. I hope we can do this again sometime in the future. Yeah, thank you. It's always nice to come out to Woodford Reserve and beautiful drive, beautiful place, gorgeous place. And we had a great time with you today and we look forward to doing it again.

Well, great. Well, thank you for having me on. Thanks for visiting.

All right. We do appreciate all of our listeners and we'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to hang out with us here on the Bourbon Road. We hope you enjoyed today's show and if so, we would appreciate if you'd subscribe and rate us a five star with a review on iTunes. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at The Bourbon Road. That way you'll be kept in the loop on all the Bourbon Road happenings. You can also visit our website at thebourbonroad.com to read our blog, listen to the show, or reach out to us directly. We always welcome comments or suggestions. And if you have an idea for a particular guest or topic, be sure to let us know. And again, thanks for hanging out with us.