48. Breakfast of Champions with Peggy Noe Stevens

I'll tell you what, I want to say one thing. If you're not out there pairing bourbon with sweet pastries in the morning, you're making a big mistake.

It's a new life choice.

This is amazing. I'm so glad. I don't know if it's just generally good or you made a great choice because it tastes wonderful together.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Log Heads Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Find out more about their fine rustic furniture at logheadshomecenter.com. Hello, everyone. I'm Jim Shannon.

And I'm Mike Hyatt. And this is the Bourbon Road. And today, Mike, where are we? We're at the Saddlebread Suites in Shelbyville, Kentucky. It's a join to the Paddux Coffee Shop on Main Street, Main Street, USA, as I like to call it.

And this is a suite of rooms that are kind of positioned right on the Bourbon Trail, ideal for people who are out touring the Bourbon Trail. have a place to stop and.

Well, if you're in Louisville and you want to not stay downtown Louisville and you want to come to something more quaint or stay on the Bourbon Trail, this is there's no more place beautiful than Shelbyville, Kentucky. I think it's Main Street USA. Like I said, you've got Frankfurt and Lexington about 20 minutes away, Louisville about 30 minutes away. And actually you can get to barge down from here in about 35 minutes.

Yeah, that's what you said.

Well, I'm an old country boy. I'm used to driving those country roads.

We're very pleased to have this opportunity to record here today. And Mike, who do we have with us? We got Peggy No Stevens. Peggy No Stevens. Such a pleasure to have you on the show today.

Good morning. I'm thrilled to be here. And of course, I'm a big fan of Shelbyville.

Yeah, we are too. Both Mike and I live here. We actually, I live in Simpsonville. He lives in Shelby County. You're in Shelbyville? I'm in Shelby County, I'd say. Anyway, I'm a newcomer. Mike's been here not a great long time, but we're both in love with the place. So we've got Jephthah Creed Distillery here. We've got the new Bullet Distillery out here, and they've started doing tours.

Yes, I know. It's amazing.

So yeah, we're centrally located here. I think it's a jot in each direction to get to.

I think so too for people on the Bourbon Trail. You're a stone's throw from Louisville, not too far from Lexington in central Kentucky. I mean, it's really ideally located.

It really is.

And this space that we're in is magnificent. I mean, it's really wonderful accommodations.

Yeah, it's beautiful. And have that coffee shop downstairs. How nice is it in the morning to go down and enjoy that? Well, you know, we don't spend a whole lot of time chatting up front. We like to kind of get straight to the whiskey.

I'm OK with that.

You did say something to us. You said good morning. And so we'll let everybody know this is morning. So we're we're actually it's early for us.

Well, for the record, your palate is most open before 10 a.m.

I did not know that.

Yes. So when I do tastings, I prefer always to do it in the morning before you've ruined your palate for the whole day. The worst kind of tasting I could do is probably end of the day before dinner.

Oh really? And I guess people who taste for distilleries actually know that already, right? They get into work and they do their work in the mornings.

Okay.

Well, we've got something special today. So we actually brought a selection of bourbons here for you to look at. And you have chosen some bourbons to go along with some nice eats that have been brought up from downstairs at the coffee paddock and eats downstairs. Why don't you tell us what we have first? Sure. And we can talk about it a little bit.

Yeah. I mean, this is a great surprise to me. Not that I didn't expect whiskey today, but to have all the accoutrements of some breakfast items is really great. And I call it the breakfast of champions. Whenever you're going to pair whiskey with some breakfast items. But the first one that, oh my gosh, how aromatic to have these English muffins with Asiago cheese and Purnell sausage, which is a Purnell's a good old Kentucky family who produces Purnell sausage. It's wonderful and really savory. with just a hit of spice on it. And so I think with the savoriness of the grilling of the patty, and of course the doughiness of the English muffin, I couldn't help when I saw your selection to pick out the baker's single barrel. It's about a seven-year-old, 107 proof, so not for the faint of heart. But at the same time, you needed something to be able to stand up to it, to the food. So feel free to take a bite of the sandwich if you like, because I always like people to actually take the big first bite of the food and then, while you're chewing, take a little sip of that baker's and you'll really understand When I, and I'm nosing it now, when I nose this baker's, you know, it has such great smoky notes, which goes really well with that sausage flavor and savory notes, yet it has a nuttiness to it. A little bit of that yeasty nutty combination that plays so beautifully.

So when you're taking in that first sip while you're chewing on your sausage biscuit, you want the two to marry in your mouth.

Exactly. Whenever I am doing a food pairing, my goal is to create harmony between the whiskey and the food. And so I always think about what are the flavors of the food? What are the flavors of the whiskey? And if I can create a balance, then that's beautiful. And so with this, I think this is a complete balance.

Right. Well, we've had the bakers before and I, I'm a big fan.

We drank a couple of bourbons at my house one night and we were recording an episode and Jim's like, we were kind of done. And he's like, let me go over there. I'm gonna raid your bar, Mike, and see what you have hidden underneath your TV there. And I do, I have, I don't know, a hundred bourbons probably hidden under the counter. So he went over there and pulled that out. And I was kind of shocked that you pulled it out. Yeah.

Well, you know, that bottle, that bottle has created new interest in the expression, I think.

Oh, I'm thrilled, actually. And for the record, I have been a longtime fan of Booker's. And probably over the last 10 to 12 years, you know, when I was doing work on the American Stillhouse and their Global Innovation Center and the Fourth Street, you know, I would always do a pour of the single barrel, or not the single barrel, but the bakers, you know, pure, because I always thought of all the small batch collection, it was kind of the unsung hero. It was one that didn't get a whole lot of notoriety, but it was a great whiskey. And I'm partial to a higher proof. So it was just right for me at 107. And when I saw that they came out with the single barrel and the new packaging, I thought home run. So I hope it's doing really well in the market because I think it's a fabulous whiskey.

Yeah, I would like to, I would like to hear back from, uh, the people down there and just see how it is doing now that they've repackaged it. Now it is a single barrel and the Baker's seven means that seven years old, but, but they are putting the age on the neck band on these. And this is actually an eight year, six month bottle, which is that's significantly more than seven years. Almost nine years. That's, that's uh,

That's a pretty old bottle of bourbon, you'd think what went into that really.

Yeah, because they usually put like seven on the back, but then label at the top. So it's interesting.

Well, Mike and I don't often pair our bourbons with food, you know, in this way. I think the bakers actually taste a lot better now with the sausage biscuit.

Did you like that?

I do. I really do. You know, there are bourbons, I guess, that go better with barbecue and maybe and I think I saw you pair something with, um, a country biscuit with some country ham on it and some apple butter. And I think it was a Knob Creek you paired with that.

Probably, because I think Knob Creek has some apple flavor in it. So again, back to the balance. And all of the Jim Beam products to me have great wood notes and smoky notes. And so that's where that plays with barbecue and country ham and the sausage that we're having today. You know, it's nice and hearty. It's a stand up whiskey.

Okay, well, Pecky, we'd like to kind of get on the way back machine with you and sort of go back and talk about, you know, your path to where you are today. Now, you're a well-known figure in the Bourbon world. You were recently inducted into the Bourbon Hall of Fame. are now an author, you've got your, you're a leader with the Bourbon Women's Organization, and you've got a lot going on, but all of that started somewhere in your past. Can you kind of tell us, you know, what brought you in this direction in your life?

You know, probably growing up in Kentucky, I mean, there's no secret that I was always a fan of bourbon. You know, it was part of our lifestyle, you know, growing up as a child and then going on to college at UK and, you know, drinking bourbon at college football games. And, you know, it was just part of our culture, right?

You did that back then?

You know, I did. And you know what I'm really grateful for? That YouTube did not exist.

Yeah.

That's what I'm really grateful for. But I think moving on, where I feel like I had my boot camp, if you will, in my career was when I was in the hotel business. And I was with Hyatt Hotels. And so I did catering, convention sales. And so we had to learn a lot about wines and whiskeys and pairings. you know, things of that nature. And parents were kind of unheard of, really, but you would cook sometimes with the whiskey and the wine. And then I went to Brown Foreman for 17 years. And that's where I think my career really took off, you know, of course, in the spirits industry. I first started with doing events around the world. Basically, I did 100 events a year and I was part of their travel department and back to food. and bourbons and pairings. And so all of that was very natural to me coming off hotel. And then a beautiful thing happened. The Woodford Reserve Distillery was in kind of an incubator stage. And they had asked me to be in charge of the guest services area, where Lincoln Henderson was kind enough to notice my palate. And I became a master bourbon taster at that point. So that was a real turning point. And I think because I was such a foodie, I really think those culinary descriptors and flavors just fascinated me. And I wrote a book for Woodford at the time called the Woodford Reserve Culinary Cocktail Tour. And it was when people weren't even talking about, you know, chefs and you know, whiskey and pairings.

When was this about?

Oh gosh, back late 90s, early 2000s.

Okay, all right.

Yeah, so not that far ago. So that was a fun book for me because I partnered with an artistic director, Julius Friedman, who's very well known or who was a very well known artist and photographer and creative director, you know, out of Louisville, Kentucky. So that was just a really passion project for me. And then, you know, moving on, I've managed a lot of the brand destinations like Jack Daniels, Guest Services, and, you know, some Southern Comfort. So it was just a surround sound experiential is where I cut my teeth.

Okay. So when you work on these brand destinations, what exactly does that mean? What does that entail?

Sure. There is a lot of planning that goes without saying on any brand destination and I've worked on about 30 now. And it's about the consumer and it's about their experience and it's about how we want to get to know them and how we want them to get to know our whiskey. So whatever brand that we work with, we kind of dissect the experience. So based on the whiskey and how it's made and the production process and the history and heritage and culture, we personify that. And we think, you know, what are the exhibits we should be doing? What's the education component that we should be teaching people about this spirit? What's the delivery of the tasting program? How is the retail store going to be designed so that people can take their favorite pieces home with them? So I call it kind of touch points with the consumer, you know, the devil's in the details. So the consumer can come to your facility fall in love with you and hopefully, you know, be a fan of your and a brand lover of your product and take it home with them.

So it's kind of crafting that experience. Totally. Yeah. In the software development world, we call that the user story.

Oh, okay.

But I guess, you know, in this, this is kind of, you know, you're just creating that, that feel, that experience that they're going through.

Yeah, and where it's really become interesting for me at this time in my career is that 10 years ago even, consumers were satisfied with learning that, okay, you've got yeast and grains and limestone water and you distill it and you barrel it. Now, the consumer wants to know what kind of grains. You know, is it a yellow number one, number two corn? Is it, they want to go out in the, the barrel cooperage area and they want to put a barrel together and they want, they, it's so hands on. It's so interactive.

I want to go back to those Kentucky football games. So I was going to ask you, are you a UK fan? I'm not. I'm a, I'm a burnt orange fan. Oh Lord. I was going to ask you, do you wear red? Cause you were born in Louisville or do you wear blue? But you answered that for me.

I still bleed blue. And my father, just to let you know, was an avid UofL fan. Totally. It was so disappointed that I went to your K. And it was something that I wanted to do. It was a big deal for me to go there.

You know, the house divided thing is kind of common around here. Yeah, it is.

I mean, that's in most states. I think each state has two football teams. For sure. Kind of Ohio only has one football team. Michigan only has really one football team. So that's a house divided up there. Weird. They're weird up there, Jim. I know. That's my roots. So. Before that, what was your first taste of bourbon? I mean, you got the no name, right?

Right. And we're related, of course, to the no family. But at the same time, I grew up very differently because I grew up in Louisville. So we were part of what I call the city no's versus, you know, the distillery no's out in Bardstown, Springfield, et cetera.

And country people out there.

And Fred and I tease each other about that. But I think that probably it was eggnog for first taste. I remember at parties that my parents would have, because they always had people over, smelling or nosing my mom's high balls, because high balls were the thing. And now they're back. which I love. I think it's great. And so, you know, I remember that nose. I also remember just driving downtown Louisville as a little girl going to the dentist or the doctor's office. And there would be the fermentation mash bill smell in the air. And at the time, I didn't know what that was. And then when I got into whiskey, I was like, my God, this is what this aroma I've grown up with every time I drove downtown.

So when you're at those college football games, basketball there at UK, I'm sure you went to a couple of basketball games.

More than I could count.

What'd you sip on there as a college student?

Well, of course it was anything that was available. And if my friends had it and it was free, I drank theirs. But I'll tell you on a really great night, it would be Maker's Mark.

Really?

Oh, sure. Yeah. Maker's Mark was really a big deal. And again, I was in the eighties.

That's pretty awesome, I think. Yeah. So you go through the hotel industry and how did you wind up at Brown Foreman?

I was actually headhunted, believe it or not. There was a woman, it was one of my competitors at the Brown Hotel. I was working for Hyatt. She was working for the Brown Hotel. Brown Foreman actually called her to come and create a travel department, meeting planning, event planning department. And I guess the timing wasn't right for her or she didn't want to do it. And she said, you really need to call Peggy Stevens. and see if she'd be interested because I've been really fortunate in my life that a lot of my competitors actually become friends. And so she called me and said, hey, you're going to get a call from Brown Foreman. And if you're interested, you might want to take the interview. And I was like, oh, OK. And I didn't think anything of it, really. So I went and met with a wonderful woman named Lois Matuse who interviewed me and became my boss literally for 17 years while I was there. And they hired me. And it was really exciting. I mean, that just opened the door for me.

And then Lincoln hand selects you to say, hey, I want you to be our master taster.

Well, he would come to the distillery at Woodford, of course, because that was his baby. And he would be doing tastings. And so I was guest services. So I was always the one to set it up and make sure he had everything he needed. And I would watch and I would listen to him. But what I think we found in common more than the whiskey was we were foodies. And so we would talk culinary and we loved food and we had a wonderful chef in residence there, David Larson, who's still around. He was a fabulous chef. And the more we talked, I guess he recognized my palate and the more demand for the whiskey, we needed more master tasters and people to go around and travel and talk about the spirit and taste the barrels. And so it just all fell into play.

So I did see a picture and I think you posted it. You had bourbon at your wedding.

Oh gosh, you know, that was a great story. And Sarah, from It's Bourbon Night, she was getting married and I was on one of their shows and she was, you know, engaged getting married and she said, do you have any advice? And so I, I told her about, you know, drinking my bourbon and I said, you know, before they put your veil on, take a sip. Uh, because the picture has the veil hanging over my head and I'm trying to sneak in a sip of whiskey, you know, before I went down the aisle because I needed it.

Made that courage. Yeah.

Liquid courage.

What was that liquid courage?

I don't remember. Honestly, I really don't remember at that point.

It really didn't matter.

Somebody brought it to me. It did not matter.

And he drank it right down.

I sure did.

So you.

Oh, and can I add one more thing? Sure. So she actually, when she got married, did an exact replica of the photo, but it was her.

Wow.

So she did the exact same photo picture. That's awesome. When she got married.

So back, back in the eighties, um, women in Bourbon was, were you one of the only women around or were there already a lot of women there working?

As far as in the industry?

In the industry, I guess.

Or consumer?

I guess consumer-wise, we kind of know the question of that, I think. Okay. But as far as in the industry, how many women were working at Brown Form at the time?

Well, I wouldn't have a set number, but I will tell you that very few on the upper level, you know, in the C-suite and, you know, executive level.

And public facing.

Sure. Public facing, zero. But I think as the years progressed and women were coming out with their marketing degrees and moving up the ranks, it has greatly improved since that period of time.

It's like a tidal wave now.

It's good. It's a good tidal wave. I still think we have a long way to go on the C-suite side, but we are definitely making progress. Definitely making progress. You see more female marketers today. You know, great women like Jackie Zeichen and, you know, Miriam Barnes and people like that who have come into the industry and shaken it up a little bit. And I'm thrilled with that.

It's pretty exciting, I think. We've had a number of them on, you know, and Elizabeth McCall, you know, we had her on as well.

I just saw her at a conference that I attended this week.

So would you think you maybe busted that door down for some of the women?

You know, I don't know about bust, but I'd love to think that it was a catalyst. I'd love to think that I had just a small piece of that to get things shaken up and start thinking about more women in the industry. I guess that kind of leads me over parallel to consumers. Women were always drinking whiskey. You know, there's no doubt. It's just, it wasn't recognized. We weren't marketed to. The marketing budgets were always about, you know, white male in between 30, 55, you know, that type of thing. Because I don't think that the perception in the industry was that women were drinking whiskey, but I knew better. growing up in Kentucky. And so when I started my own company, that's when I was like, you know, it's time we have a conversation, you know, with women. And that's where Bourbon Women came from.

Well, Mike, I think what we'd like to do here at this point is we'll just keep sipping on this Bakers. Fine by me. We'll eat the rest of our biscuit. Love it. Take a short break. And when we come back, we're going to talk a little bit about what you have going on today. Sure. And some events you have planned and some other things and your new book.

Great. All right.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Loghead's Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Loghead's Home Center, nestled in the hills of Kentucky, is an industry leader in building handcrafted rustic furniture. Family-owned and operated, they take pride in offering only the very best for their customers. The Logheads, and that's what they like to call themselves, are skilled woodcrafters who are passionate about creating rustic furniture for people who appreciate the beauty of natural wood. Owners Tommy and Gwen don't just sell the rustic lifestyle, they live it. And you can be sure that Loghead's furniture will always be handcrafted in Kentucky by artisans who embrace the simple way of life. Loghead's rustic furniture is made from northern white cedar, a sustainable wood that's naturally rot and termite resistant. Its beauty and quality will add warmth to your earthy lifestyle for generations to come. Be sure to check out everything they have to offer at LogHeadsHomeCenter.com. And while you're at it, give Tommy and Gwen a shout on Facebook or Instagram at LogHeads Home Center.

So we're back and we're here at the saddle bench suites here in Shelbyville, Kentucky. You can hear the trucks, farm trucks rolling by us down Main Street here.

And Peggy, you, uh, you have another whiskey for us and you've got another, a food item to pair with it. Why don't you take it away?

Well, I will. This is a larceny barrel proof. And this was from Ural's collection that you brought. And when I saw the pastries come up with a lot of the cherry filling, I nosed the larceny and thought, ah, this is it. Because this larceny just very aromatic. I get a big blast of cherry.

So we're continuing our breakfast to champions here.

We are continuing the breakfast of champions. And then if you see, and these are some of the little details when you're thinking about food pairing, but you see some kind of almonds on the top of it. And so I get a little almond vanilla nose out of the larceny. So I'm matching the flavors. So this was kind of a no brainer for me. And larceny, even though this is barrel strength, I believe, like 123, Possibly.

I don't remember what the proof is on this one. It's like 122, 123.

Okay, so I'm going too far off. To me, it's still, even though it's yummy and textural and complex, it still feels light to me in a good way. So I think the pastry won't get demolished because look, there's probably about an inch of cherry filling. I wish you're... Listeners could see that there's an inch of cherry filling in this.

They'll see it on our photos.

It's a big blast.

We actually do a written blog with every episode. So there'll be all these wonderful pictures to go along with it. So if you're listening to this and you really want to see what we're eating, jump on the blog.

You'll see it. So take a, well, nose the larceny first and see if you get that cherry that I was talking about. Sometimes people think those fruit notes Come from you know, another area of the production process, but really there's a lot of cherry in the barrel There is and I definitely you know get that that kind of nutty almond from from a larceny, right?

Yeah Well from most Heaven Hill products or many Heaven Hill products.

I do too So I thought this would be just ideal. And there's just the smallest drizzle of a vanilla icing on top. So back to that kind of cake batter shortbread flavor that you also get in the larceny, matches perfectly.

So this is, this looks like it might be kind of a, like a short bread-y kind of thing. Exactly. Yeah. So we do the same thing we did last time. We take a little bite.

Take a nice big bite, not a little bite. I encourage everybody to take a big bite of the food to really let those flavors sink in.

So do you, you take a bite and you allow it to kind of, you chew it in your mouth, you enjoy the food a little bit, and then you introduce the bourbon.

Then you introduce the bourbon and let it play.

Okay.

Let it play with the food a bit.

All right, well, let's do it.

All right.

Already did.

You're a quick study.

Yeah, this is this is cherry pie and glass, right? It is just the buttery crust. I get that inside here. A little bit of cinnamon on that back end with that barrel proof.

Oh, yeah. And I have to tell you, as much cherry that is in this pastry, the larceny brightens it even more. Notice how the cherry kind of brightens.

Oh wow, that is amazing. You know, Mike, I really appreciate you tasting early like you normally do because you allow Peggy and I to actually do it right. To do it right.

No dead air while we were... Peggy, I love weeded bourbon and when I found out that Larseny or Heaven Hill was releasing this, I was super excited. I was like, man, they're making a barrel strength bourbon for me. I'm the consumer they're trying to get, I think. And I think Maker's Mark did the same thing with their cast strength. They're looking at guys that drink weeded bourbons. And I'd love it. I love when a company's coming out with more and more weeded bourbons. Buffalo Trace has their weeded bourbons. Old Forester, I'd like to see them come out with something. Maybe in the future.

I think Wilderness Trail.

Wilderness Trail, Pat and Shane's wheat. They're brilliant. And you know, their wheat is, I think I saw on Breaking Bourbon, you know, they have the release calendar on Breaking Bourbon. I think I saw that they announced that Pat and Shane's wheat is hitting six years, is releasing a six year this month. This month, yeah. March. Which is when we're gonna release this episode.

So I'm super excited Pat chain just we love them to death.

I do too. I they're brilliant They're as nice as they could possibly be whenever you see them out and every time I'm around them.

I learn through smart guys

Every time I'm around them, I learned something and I've been in the industry 30 years.

And they're killing it. I mean, they are killing it. I mean, they're making so many barrels a day. It's unbelievable that they were able to take a new craft distillery and just raise to that level so quickly.

So age statements, let's talk about that for a minute. Cause that Baker's has an age statement on it, right? And so does the larceny actually on the back.

Yeah. I think it said something six to eight years between that.

Yeah. Eight, eight to nine on that bottle for that. Um, do you think a statements are going to go away in the, in the future?

You know, I think it's going to depend on the price of the bottle. That's what I think. I think that a lot of distilleries will do away with age statement just because of volume of product and, you know, to turn the consumer off that focus a little bit and just focus on the flavor and not necessarily the age. You know, the scotch industry always hung their hat on age statements, you know, 18 year old, 20 year old, et cetera. But if it's a very high premium bourbon, I think that some age statements will probably remain because a higher premium price, you have a sophisticated consumer, and they want to know more detail before they buy that bottle.

So that's my prediction. You kind of expect that, right? Yeah. And the reason I was saying that is because when they rebranded bakers, they could have just did away with the age statement. Jim Beam said, no, we're going to leave that age statement on there. And we're going to even put it on the neck of the bottle, I think is, in my mind, that's maybe where the industry goes.

And I think that Bakers is remaining an upper shelf premium product. You know, we always see Bakers up there next to the Bookers, up on top. And you know, now the bottle sort of tells that, that premium story. I think you could probably kill somebody with that stopper and it weighs like seven pounds.

But you know, I think of two products like Elijah Craig that took the 12 year old, you know, off. Uh, I think Knob Creek, I don't know how many years ago took nine years, you know, off. So I think you'll see some of that, but when it comes super premium, I think it's expected to know.

So do you think that when, cause everybody has increased their production as a result of what's going on in bourbon and those, some of those stocks are now becoming, coming to age and you know, as the pressure is off on their inventories, do you think maybe those will come back or do you think that they've, this is a new norm?

I think they probably may come back. I guess I focus more on the age statements of craft distilleries.

Okay.

And the reason being is I work with so many craft people in the industry and you know, all of their product, you know, they might have all started with vodkas and gins and, you know, just to get them by moonshine. And now some of their brown spirits are coming to fruition. So I'm more interested in reading an age statement on a craft brand to decide, OK, is this really did it pick up the flavors of the barrel like they're saying? And, you know, that's where I focus.

Some of those craft brands out there, what craft brands do you work with right now?

Well, one of my early clients was Peerless, which has done a phenomenal job, as you know, bringing out their rye. And they even started with some moonshine, just to get started. Old Dominic, we were just talking about Alex Castle. That was a client, Jephthah Creed. Right here in Shelby Shelbyville was a client. So I've had Texas clients I've had, you know, really across the United States, which has been fun because people don't really realize the regionality of The products, you know in Texas their climate is just sweltering hot right so their warehouses I mean they just turn that barrel, you know as far as the expansion and contraction of the barrel where we have very extreme cold here in Kentucky, very extreme hot, you know, that's our own barrel rhythm. So it's super interesting to me.

So an eight-year-old Texas whiskey is highly unlikely, right?

Well, I think that they're going to mature quicker.

Yeah.

I mean, I just, from what I can taste.

There would be nothing in the barrel.

It's true, because of evaporation.

Yeah, I think, well, I'm a Texas boy and I think people think Texas is just as hot all the time, but you get in central Texas, where Balcones is, and you can, or if you get up towards Dallas, you could get those extreme cold temperatures down into the teens quite often in the wintertime. Just a little bit different of a cold, more of a dry cold than it is wet. Kentucky cold to me is a wet cold to where down there they do that, but the summers there are hot.

I'll tell you what, I want to say one thing. If you're not out there preparing bourbon with sweet pastries in the morning, you're making a big mistake because

It was a new life choice.

This is amazing. I was so glad. So I really enjoyed it. I was going to live right here.

Yeah, I was glad.

You know, I don't know if it's just generally good or you made a great choice because it tastes wonderful together.

Well, I appreciate that. And you know, that's the important thing about food pairings. You know, I never want it to be like the wine industry and make it intimidating to try, you know, a particular product with a food and to say, oh, you got it wrong. You got it wrong. That's not my vibe. You know, my vibe is to make it very approachable and fun and let you pick out the flavors and then say, gosh, what would that go great with? Because it's really exploratory. It's, you know, just so much fun if you take your time with it. You have a party in your own home. You know, you can have a whole food pairing party. So so I want people to enjoy that.

Yeah. So we're having, we're having larceny barrel proof with this cherry pastry and it's just a wonderful combination. Are there, are there a couple other expressions that come to mind that might pair well with a cherry pastry? Like maybe Elijah Craig.

Oh, Elijah Craig hands down the barrel strength.

Okay.

Elijah Craig is phenomenal. It's really one of the more complex whiskeys that I've tasted in the last probably five years or so. I really enjoy that product because it just has layers and layers of flavors. And when Bourbon Plus Magazine came out, Fred Minnick, myself, Carla Carlton, we did profiles for a little while, like what do I taste? And I had selected the barrel strength, Elijah Craig. And I mean, I was like pancakes and syrup and it just went on and on and on.

Wow. Yeah. Those are, those are a popular expression, but the people out there, you know, have to understand that you're going to drink something that's typically in the 130 to 140 proof range, right?

That is my take on flavor. I tend to go, and this is where I think the Bourbon Women Association has helped the industry understand that women do go for the higher proof, more robust, and spicier whiskeys. So it is typical for me to do a barrel strength. However, if it's something that you want to bring the proof down, all you need to do is to drop a few drops of water, or however much water that you feel, you can taste the flavor a little bit better and do it to your own liking. Dropping the water in the actual whiskey brings out the fruit notes. So I guarantee you, if you dropped a few drops of water into the larceny you just taste, you know, you got immediate chariot notes, way do you get the chariot notes when you do that.

So it doesn't really have a whole lot of effect on the kind of the spicy backend, but it opens up that front end.

It opens the front end. And also when I'm doing seminars, I have an upcoming seminar in New Orleans in March. And when, when I teach people how to taste the whiskey itself, if it's a very high proof bourbon and they're not used to it, I have them take a little sip and swallow and then blow out. Just like that.

Okay.

And what that does, it blows out some of the alcohol so you can really get the base flavors. Try it. Try it. Why are you doing that?

I got to ask you about this. Been last two years. Been pretty big for you, right? You want to just awesome awards that says a lot about your character and what you've done for the whiskey industry. What were those two awards?

Well, in 2019, the Kentucky Distillers Association did the Bourbon Hall of Fame, where they, among the peers of KDA, select several members from the bourbon community as a Hall of Fame recipient. And I can't tell you how, first of all, I was blown away when Eric Gregory, the president, called me. I thought it was a joke. I said, real? What? Because I'm not a distillery. I don't have a product, if you will, that I'm selling. But I've made contributions to the industry because I've always been passionate about innovation. And whether it was my offering to the Kentucky Bourbon Trail strategy, you know, whether it was culinary, whether it was the Bourbon Women Association, you know, I do things that are passion projects. And to have the industry recognize the passion projects, you know, I didn't do those projects to get an award. I did them because I loved them. And so that was Nirvana for me. And Bill Samuels introduced me at the awards banquet and talked about our relationship over 30 years and the things that I've done. And it was surreal to hear him speak about it. And then last week, believe it or not, I was in New York in Whiskey Magazine. So this is a 2020 award. Gave me a Hall of Fame. for Whiskey Magazine alongside of Frank Coleman, who also won a Hall of Fame Award and he is with Discus. He's been with the Discus Association, which is a very important association to our industry for legislation and liquor laws and all of these things that help make us go. So to share that with him, who I've known for so long, in the industry and to be in New York and see so many people I knew it was it was at the Flatiron Grill bar. It was amazing. It was amazing. So I'm feeling really, really fortunate right now.

That's really great, Peggy. And you know, I think to be recognized by your peers in the industry must be something that just tugs at your heart a little bit, doesn't it?

Most certainly. Because I think our industry, and I try to teach a lot of the craft people, we are an industry of relationships. And we're very protective of that. And I think it all started with the camaraderie of our Master Distillers many, many years ago. And how they were competitors, and I even mentioned earlier, in the program you know I tend to become friends you know with my competitors because that's the way it needs to be.

Well that's that saying we always say is rising tides raise all ships. That's right. Your competitor reaches out to you and says hey I'd like to help you out or heaven hit when they burn down.

That's right.

Their competitors reached out put the hand out and I think the same way with our podcast is other podcasts hey you guys are having need help we'll help you out or come on your show, you come on our show. I love that about, that's the bourbon culture to me.

It is the bourbon culture and we have to keep that. The larger we get. And so again, I guess that's why I always kind of preach a little bit to craft distillers, you know, because when I do meet craft distillers, they'll say, oh, I met so and so from Kentucky and so and so, and they were so nice and helpful. And I said, yes, because that's what we do.

Right. Yeah, there's no fear of market share there. Now, in business, market share is a real thing.

Business is business, sure. But on a camaraderie level and rising TAD level, we have to stay together.

Absolutely. And what about history? How do you feel about the bourbon history? So there's been latest Jim Beam commercial that came out right around the Super Bowl, showed a new digital steel house, a new digital Rick house and people in the lab and said, we're turning away from our history and we're going to make ourselves new. That hurt me a little bit. I was like, wow.

Well, if you're talking about innovation, I think we have to stay tuned because there is no doubt that some of the old ways are the best ways of production. But at the same time, if I go back to the 1800s and look at George Garvin Brown and how he brought the clear glass bottle to old Forrester,

Exactly.

Because before that time, everybody had colored glass to hide the imperfections of the whiskey. Maybe they thought at that time, George Garvin Brown's crazy for doing a clear bottle. We can't do that in the industry, but he did, and it made us better.

And then what about finished bourbons are a newer thing, I think, right?

Absolutely. And so that's a great example of current innovation. I think we have to embrace it, but we have to make it authentic. And why I say that is because if we're just doing tricks for consumers, you know, cherry flavored this and this, you know, if it's just tricks and it's not a good quality, then we've done ourselves a disservice. But I'm perfectly fine with a great bourbon being finished in, you know, a cask of, you know, Sherry or something like that. It's, it's artistry.

And it took a lot of courage for Wes and Lincoln to take that leap back then with Angel's Envy.

Absolutely.

Because it was not something that was done on a regular basis.

You're correct.

I think even a day, we'll have friends that are like, oh, that's not a bourbon. And I'm like, have you tasted it? No, I haven't tasted it. Well, why don't you taste it first? Learn a little bit about that expression from that distillery. They're a distillery. They're pumping out some juice at that place.

But that's, you know, that's always the age old tug of war between, you know, somebody wanting to live in the past and somebody wanting to branch out into the future. Yeah.

And so that's why I always say there's room for it all.

Right.

If it's done well, if it's something that that's truly not authentic and it's just a trick, a marketing trick to play to consumers, but the end product's not great. That's when we do ourselves a disservice.

Now you had Leapers Fork as one of your, you said as one of your customers. We went down there and visited them. When I think of a distiller in the 1800s, I think of Lee Kennedy and his team down there.

That's right. In fact, I ran into April Weller Cantrell, who manages all of that down there. And she was busting with excitement because their new rise out, apparently, are coming out. And she was like, I'm meant to bring you bottles. And I'm like, well, there's always a second chance.

And that's a three year old, right? It is a three to four year old. Did you taste it? They put it out there for me and I drank a whole bunch of it. Now they had two expressions. They had one at 55 and then they had one at 85. And wow, both of them, they were amazing.

Yeah.

Now Vivian, she sat right beside me and I was driving that night. So I kind of just kind of sipped on it, but my wife is not a whiskey drinker at all.

I'm sorry for that.

Well, she says she isn't. But surprisingly, she drank every glass there.

I was going to say, can I have her phone number? I'll change her.

All right. So let's talk a little bit about what you got going on now. So you are actively involved with the Bourbon Women. In fact, you are the founder of the Bourbon Women.

I was the founder of the Bourbon Women Association. But believe me, I cannot take credit because we've always had a board of some of the most dynamic women in the industry. And they lead the charge. I do what they say, basically. But we have done executed over the last, we're coming up on our 10 year anniversary, actually. We've executed over 200 events across the nation. We're in over 10 cities. Just go to bourbonwomen.org and you can become a member and attend our annual SIP posium conference in August, which 300, actually I think we had a little over 300 women, came to Louisville for distillery excursions and culinary workshops and we had experts from all over come in to teach grains and yeast and all these things. It was absolutely amazing and they came from 26 different states.

That's awesome. And you guys are very active. You got a lot going on. You're reaching out to women all over the country.

We are.

And it's very inclusive. So you guys are just looking for women who are excited about the lifestyle.

You know, it's funny, we talk about not, we're not a drinking club. You know, we're a movement and we're a lifestyle. And so if you want to come and have some fun and network and enjoy the product and get educated on the product and fall into the romance of our lifestyle, then come on over.

I think when I think of a bourbon woman, I think of the most classy lady I've ever known with holding a Glen Caron in her hand.

Like I'm doing right now?

With that southern accent, maybe that Paula Bean accent. I love it. And so you recently released a new book. Can we talk a little bit about that?

Absolutely. My new book alongside of one of my very best friends, Susan Riegler, who has written, gosh, probably over eight books on bourbon and she and I are the whiskey reviewers. for American Whiskey Magazine. So we have a ton of fun doing that. She and I got together, and this was a book that I actually started probably seven years ago, wrote a few chapters, and then just plain got busy. But I've always wanted to write the next chapter in bourbon pairings and entertaining. And then with her knowledge alongside of me and our partnerships, we came up with, are you ready for the title? Which fork do I use with my bourbon?

That's a clever title.

It's about how to entertain in your home with bourbon, how to conduct tastings, the proper equipment you can have, the fun you can have, decor. It talks about food pairings, menu pairings, just all types. So I got a lot of my event planning skills in there. And Susan and I have a lot of our palette in there. So we even have a chapter on Derby. So I think the consumer, anybody who's reading it, It's for basic learners. We have an advanced chapter for really savvy whiskey people. And it's out in May before Derby, but the pre-sale right now is on Amazon.

Okay, so you can go on Amazon.com right now. You can pre-order the book.

Correct.

And then have it in your hands before Derby when you need to entertain.

That's right. Around, I think they said end of April. Because the first, for those listeners that don't know, Derby is the first Saturday in May.

So if somebody gets this book at the end of April, are there going to be some good examples in there for them to immediately get going? Oh, you better believe it.

Yes, we have cocktail recipes in there. We have food recipes. It's not a cookbook. It's really kind of a lifestyle book.

Yeah. And so how have the pre-orders been going so far?

Fabulous. Yeah, really good. We're very, very pleased. In fact, I was told it's the number one new release right now on Amazon. Oh, wow. Now, could that change tomorrow? Absolutely. But you know, I'll take that. I'll take that.

So if somebody doesn't get a pre-order, they don't get a book before then, and they're coming into the Derby, into Louisville, and somebody's wanting to pick that book up, where could they pick that book up in Louisville?

Well, I'm hoping that, you know, they'll still be able to order it on Amazon, but hopefully the airport will be carrying it. A lot of the distillery retail, you know, shops will be carrying it. I know that the Frazier Museum, we're doing a big book launch with the Frazier Museum come June, I believe, we're scheduled for. So they'll carry that in advance. So lots of places.

What about at the Derby, at the Derby shop there?

Yes, actually the Derby Museum. We're doing also a party with them at the Derby. Thank you for reminding me of that. We're doing a whole event, actually, Derby Week, showcasing the book.

So our listeners out there, if you're going to the Kentucky Derby this year, 2020, And you're at the Derby going to the museum there. They have an awesome gift shop. They have an awesome gift shop going there and buy a Peggy's a book that she just wrote with Susan regular we had her on and

Isn't she interesting? That's why I love her. I think Susan is just brilliant.

I was trying to dig stories out of her and her favorite bourbon and she just wasn't bud. Well, she's, she's a professional, you know?

Absolutely.

Well, Peggy, it's been a pleasure to have you on, but I want to give you the opportunity. I mean, people want to find out more about what you have going on at any given point in time. You have a website.

I do. It's a very creative name. It's just PeggyNoStevens.com. So come visit there. Come visit the Bourbon Women Association. You can find me both places.

And you're active on social media?

Absolutely. Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Now your company, Peggy No Stevens, what actually does that company do?

We focus more than anything on brand destination work. So like I said, we've worked on 30 distilleries. We do tasting profiles. I do a lot of sourcing of whiskey for different brands and profiling that out for quality. I also do a lot of speaking engagements. And so people will hire us to come out and do a seminar on how to drink whiskey or how to entertain with bourbon. I've done one recently on barrels and how they're made and how that affects flavor. So we do a lot of public speaking.

So keep your eyes out. Peggy is actually getting around. She's, she, you can find her at a lot of the big events and, and a lot of you new young distilleries out there, new startups, check her out. I think maybe she can help you with your, your customer experience there.

Thank you.

Well, Peggy, it's been a pleasure to have you on the Bourbon road. I had a blast.

Sounds of fun.

Good breakfast.

Great breakfast. In fact, I'm going to have seconds as soon as we're off the mic.

Well, thanks again for being on the Bourbon road.

Thank you.

So you can find us at the bourbon road on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. You can go to our webpage, the bourbon road.com. We have our blog on there with photos or episodes, soon to be some, uh, retail items, I think. Yep. And, uh, you can find me at one big chief on Instagram.

I'm Jay Shannon 63 and, uh, Yeah, come to our Facebook page. We have a private Facebook group on there, but we accept all interested parties. All you have to do is request to join, answer a few easy questions. We just want to make sure you're 21 and you know what you're getting yourself into. And when you come in there, it's going to be some like-minded people. We're going to hang out and chat, share pictures of bottles and stories and meet up sometimes. And we'll see you all down the Bourbon Road. We do appreciate all of our listeners and we'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to hang out with us here on the Bourbon Road. We hope you enjoyed today's show and if so, we would appreciate if you'd subscribe and rate us a five star with a review on iTunes. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at The Bourbon Road. That way you'll be kept in the loop in all the Bourbon Road happenings. You can also visit our website at thebourbonroad.com to read our blog, listen to the show, or reach out to us directly. We always welcome comments or suggestions. And if you have an idea for a particular guest or topic, be sure to let us know. And again, thanks for hanging out with us.