449. Estate Grown & Climate Controlled: The Innovative Spirit of Minden Mill

Oh friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Road Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon. And I'm your host, Todd Ritter.

We've got a great show for you today. So grab your favorite pour and join us.

Hey roadies, it's Diane Strong with Bourbon on the Banks Festival. We've got another amazing event coming your way this year. Be sure to join us at the half and I'll tell you a little bit more about the event taking place October 4th, 2025.

Todd and I are proud to have Smokies Lifestyle Cigars as a sponsor of this episode and as the official cigar of the Bourbon Road podcast. Our hosts and listeners alike enjoy the ultimate experience of premium cigars. Smoky's Lifestyle Cigars are where flavor and craftsmanship meet. Find out more during the halftime break and at smokyslifestylecigar.com. The Surgeon General warns that cigar smoking can cause lung cancer and heart disease and is not a safe alternative to cigarettes. The Hill House Bed and Breakfast, located in Loretto, Kentucky, is ready to be your bourbon country home away from home. Located less than three miles from Maker's Mark, the Hill House is convenient to Bardstown and the rest of the Bourbon trail. The next time you visit Bourbon country, choose comfort and convenience. Choose the Hill House bed and breakfast. Listen in at the break for more details or visit their website at thehillhousekentucky.com. All right, new listeners and long time roadies. Welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon road podcast. I'm your host, Jim Shannon. Todd is with us today. We've got a great show for you. We have a guest on the show today. We've got some new whiskeys that we have not had on the Bourbon Road before. I think you're going to be really surprised by what we have. Todd, who is our guest tonight?

So tonight we've got Joe O'Sullivan of Minden Mill Distilling. I just listened to an episode of Drew Hanisch, I guess, maybe a month or so ago and Joe was on that show and, you know, we're big fans of Drew. We reached out to them and yeah, he's joined us tonight. So we're gonna pick his brain and drink his whiskey. So I'm looking forward to it. Welcome to the show, Joe.

Oh, thanks guys. I'm really happy to be here. I'm happy that Drew's getting enough attention to start spreading the love. I have always loved being on his show and I'm looking forward to this one. So thanks for having me.

All right, so we have a number of your expressions that we're going to drink through tonight. The first one is already in our glass, and we like to get to that whiskey pretty quick. So why don't you tell us what's in our first glass, Joe?

Yeah. So the first one up that we're going to drink is the rye. This is Minden Mills, Nevada straight rye. It's going to be 80% rye, 10% wheat and 10% barley on the grain bill. What's really unique about what we do there is that we're in a state distillery. So as an estate distillery, We grow all of our own grain, including the winter rye that goes into this product. Everybody always assumes that if you're in Nevada, you're immediately right next to Las Vegas. And we are nine hours north, also about at 5,000 feet. So we are very close to Lake Tahoe. And this is an extremely challenging place to grow any sort of grain at all. What we've seen manifest is kind of a different flavor profile coming out of our rye and particular than anything else, because it's just a regular old winter, winter ride, but rather than being bought on the commodity market, we're in a state distillers. We're grown in ourselves and, um, you're going to see a different flavor manifest from this. So it's going to be very a candied orange is kind of the way that it's gone. So, um, it's enough little background. I'm sure as we're tasting, I'll, I'll give you a couple more tidbits.

Well, fantastic. What was the proof on this and the age?

It's a four-year and it's 94 proof. We had some of our earlier blends at 92 to kind of work with any sort of louching or flocculation. But quite honestly, you know, it was even cutting it close at 92. So, it sort of To make sure there was no little bits of amino acids floating around and kind of find themselves in the solution, we raised it 94. So, it's a little bit over the usual strength and goes down smooth just the same. One of the things that's really cool about this is that as well as aging it or as well as growing it in Nevada, we really can't age things there. So, We have about 10% absolute humidity average across the year. And as a result, we were losing about 3% angel share per month when we first started laying down using the local environment. Wow. that not really being a successful path to the future. We have the bourbon and rye rick house climate locked to the airport at Bardstown, Kentucky. So right now it's just as hot and as muggy as Bardstown is currently. And I was in there all day, so I can tell you for a fact, it is incredibly hot and muggy in that rick house right now.

That is so amazing. So when you say climate locked, it's like, are you watching the weather in Kentucky and emulating it as best you can?

Well, down to the factors of humidity and of temperature, yes. And these are averages. It's not going to be... We, at one point earlier on in our existence, were crazy enough to try to do it on really close, minute to minute, hour by hour. The amount of abuse that puts on your system was pretty incredible. So... had to back away from that after the couple of compressors decided to give up the ghost. Yes, now it's more based on averages. It's pretty amazing what comes out if you can really work with all the different factors. We really want to be considered one of the truest Nevada distilleries out there. That's a big spotlight, by the way. I'm going to share that with everybody. I know that my bosses want me to say that we're always the best, but I want the biggest uprising of boats as possible. And we will still be the best. But what we really do is present something that is of Nevada, right? And while we can't do that with the local humidity and the local temperature that we get here, we are going to offer something that provides a really high quality product. And that's what that climate controlled rick house is all about.

So Todd, is that a first for us? Have we ever had anybody that climate controlled their warehouse to match Bardstown, Kentucky? That's pretty amazing.

I don't think about Bardstown. I mean, it'd be interesting to know what, oh, Forrester. I don't know if they have Old Forrester and Woodford Reserve have those climate controls, but do they have it set at, I don't know.

It's got a while.

Probably, yeah. I mean, they're cooler than, a little cooler than Bardstown, I would say. Probably.

So a wise distiller would actually have it locked at the old Forrester rick house is what you're saying. It would be the exact same. We'd sneak a little sensor in there and just make it exactly the same as that. No, not necessarily.

I've been in the Bardstown word houses, so I think it's wonderful there myself. I think his messaging of the candied orange, like that has hit the nail on the head.

I always remember when I was a kid, right around, my grandmother was this great, wonderful Polish cook and she would always soak little thin slices of candy and sugar for a long time leading up to Christmas and Thanksgiving. And it was just kind of like, it was candy that you were allowed to eat as much as you want of. And when the first time I had this, they came right back to me that sense memory of something that you just kind of don't see anymore, but I think it was really special.

Yeah, it does have that. I mean, it really sets that picture in your mind about that candied orange. You know, at four years, it seems like it's a little bit early to be getting that candy effect on the rye, but it's definitely there.

I mean, we have a great, amazing lead blender. John Crumbly is our boy. He knows his barrels better than anyone else. He's there every day. And yeah, I mean, everything he tastes in the bottle as well as just being a product of Minden is certainly a product of him. And it shows. What we have here in this bottle is incredible. Just got Let me think. Platinum at the Ascot Awards, which is a really big deal. It was nice to get a really nice thank you from Fred on that one. I was going to say, you guys did really well.

Yeah. And on the nose, the grains really shine through. And that's one of the things that I really appreciate from the Western distilleries is that the whiskeys that you guys make tend to be really wholesome and green forward. And I really love that nose I'm getting on it.

I have a little bit of a theory about that that I'm not going to say. It's just a speculation, which has always been that it's a lot of the Western grain growers, it's drier conditions. And so you're getting a slightly less natural mold contamination that you get in the Northeast and the East. And I think it just manifests in a very different way. I'm not one is better than the other by any means. But it's always these are rich, biodiverse crops, and it's going to affect things depending on how it's grown and the conditions it's grown.

Now, since your estate grown, do you have any kind of like crop yield issues? You know, certain, you know, different years are obviously gonna... Yeah, yeah, definitely.

That's certainly the case. So just for the listener out there, if you're in a state distiller in Nevada, it means that 85% of your fermentable grains has to be from land that you control within the state of Nevada. We can't buy from Canada, we can't buy from California. And right now, we're working with the ranch immediately down the road. So this is all coming from within three miles of the distillery. And that does mean that, yeah, there's years where it's better or worse. Last year's rye was real rough. I got a heat wave right before it went to seed and it cost us some yields. But as I've said, I do truly think that growing in adverse conditions It's almost like we're returning the tradition of distillation back to what it used to be before there was so much commodity grain into it. And you're getting these regional expressions and I'm hoping that everyone starts talking a little bit more about estate distillation.

So is it true that as a crop struggles a little bit more that the, um, the essence of the grain becomes more, um, um, concentrated, it becomes better. Does the crops that struggle have more flavor than those that tend to grow more freely?

It's a great question to ask. I don't have the answer yet, but there's some people working on it at the University of Kentucky at this moment. The Estate Whiskey Alliance and the University of Kentucky has picked up on this and they're working through how to best determine those measurements and to make it real, right? Like we all know it's there, but how do we describe it in some way that we can measure is what we're all working towards now. So get back to me in three, four years. I may have a very, very certain and direct answer for you.

Yeah, we kind of know with like forestry with the trees, the tougher years make tighter grains and the tighter grains make stronger wood, right? We know that that's a fact. I just didn't know with grains if there was some similar result.

I would, I'm going to say, I believe with my heart that there is, but how I can prove it, I just don't know yet. So, I'm glad some smarter people that I are going after it. We are associated with that whole program though. We're contributing. just their resource pool. So things like soil, so they can take a look at that, you know, it's going to be based partly in our growing conditions. And since we're so unique to be doing this so high up and it's really cold in the winter here and it's really, really hot in the summer here. So that big switch, I mean, you're, you're, it's just, it's not like these cushy conditions, but you get really good quality grain outfit.

All right. I went ahead and took a sip. I cheated. Sorry. I couldn't wait. The nose was just draw me to it. But it's nice and sweet, so it's a little more candy-like. Just a hint of that mint. I'm getting like a white grape kind of thing too.

Yeah, I think it's taken on a good impression from the barrel. It definitely drinks years above its age. You said this is a four-year. I feel like this drinks more like a seven to eight year. It drinks definitely above its age. It's really good.

Oh, I know. And the color on this is gorgeous. All three of these expressions just have a really nice color.

Yeah, we use grape barrels. That's the best. behind every great distiller is a really amazing Cooper, as the adage goes. We are using Sigmine Row barrels. We also have some Kelvin and some barrel mill in there as well, but we've largely used exclusively Sigmine Row out of Napa. They're a wine cooperage and it's a number three American oak number three jar American oak virgin barrel, but there's 36 month air dried staves makes a big difference and the quality and the flavors of the oak that come out of it. So sometimes partnering up with those often overlooked wine, wine barrel makers, they just, they approach things a little bit differently and I've always enjoyed working with them. So what's the MSRP on this Joe? I had 45 bucks or so, $45.99 in that range. You know that. That's a great price. Specifically what I'm supposed to tell you. Yeah, $44.99 for the Rye is the debt on MSRP. That's a great price.

I'm getting a little bit of whorehound candy. Just a little, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing.

You're the second person that's brought up whorehounds. Yeah. That's a really, that's, that's a, I love that stuff. And it's pretty rare that anyone brings it up these days. I think it's fantastic.

It kind of tells our age though, Joe is kind of what that does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Reminds some old school candy for old school guys. Yeah. I mean, it's got a little bit of Mary Jane's and squirrel nut zippers in there too. Yeah. There you go. There you go. But this is fantastic.

It's a really good rye. And the price point for me,

I find the rye is an interesting new introduction for rye drinkers. This is something that they can find a brand new direction in, in a category that's, I think, just really now starting to explode with creativity. There's always been wonderful ryes, but it's having a moment for sure. And there's a lot of people like me and my crew that just are a bit fascinated with the potentials that you can get out of rye.

So what do you think that 10% wheat does to the overall flavor profile of this?

It just softens it a little bit, gives it a little, and acts almost as a binding agent for some of the flavors. Um, it just makes the whole experience a little bit better, uh, overall.

Now, did you arrive at that systematically or did you know that going in, that's what you wanted to do.

Oh, this this recipe was designed prior to me getting there. So while I'm not surprised that Johnny Jeffrey, the me before me at Minden Mill, well, I'm not surprised that Johnny came up with a weed in the recipe itself. That's exactly what I would have done. It does. It makes sense. And once that was already in there, I wasn't going to change it. It was way too good already.

Now, you guys use some heirloom creams, is that right?

Yeah, we're using heirloom grains in the bourbon. So, the bourbon will be the next one to try for sure going down the line.

We'll dive into that a little when we get to that one. Yeah, I'm loving this rye though.

Yeah, I think it really does diminish the assumption that black pepper is going to be everything about what a rye can be. I've been lucky enough to be in this industry for quite some time and I've been at it for 20 years now. So I worked on one called McCarthy's for a long, long, long time. While everybody had always assumed pitted single malts were very obviously smoky, there is something to be said for taking that often defined flavor characteristic, in this case, black pepper, and setting it back and making sure it's a little bit more balanced with the rest of the flavors that come out of the grain.

Yeah. And I'd also say, you know, sometimes you'll hear people that aren't crazy about rye, like they don't like that grassiness of it sometimes, you know, obviously someone that doesn't like super spicy might not like some super spicy rice, which there are plenty of, but like this doesn't have, you know, I think this could be like one to persuade someone that says, well, I'm not a huge grassy rye fan.

I mean, this is... Quite honestly, we've seen a lot of whiskey clubs when I do... If I'm doing a tasting with a whiskey club and I do a show of hands, it's pretty common for them to say, you know, we like the rye the most. And it's one of the reasons I wanted to lead off with this. I think the bourbon is in the single malter both wonderful too. But this just offers such a such a neat singular direction and it's whole flavor profile is so citrus and sweet. It's a really nice summer whiskey.

Now, do you guys offer any like higher strength versions of this or single barrels?

Not at the moment. Not the moment. We've only been out. We've only released back in November. So whiskey's are brand brand new. It's which isn't to say that we don't have already plans for some limited releases and some eventual single barrels. We're not really going to line up on that just yet. But once we get a little bit more let's say, financially secure. When you start off, it's always a bit of a hustle. So, once we have that flagship, I should say, yeah. Once we get the flagship secure, that's when we're going to start releasing other things. Yeah.

You say you just started this this year. So, like previously, you were known as Bentley Heritage. Is that correct?

Well, we just released this year. It was Bentley Heritage from 2019 to 2022. And then in 2023 and to now, it's been Minden Mill. The Bentley's, Chris Bentley started the whole distillery back as an idea in 2017 with its first opening in 2019. as a way to really focus on single malt whiskey coming out of the high desert. Well, he really enjoyed it and it was going great. COVID unfortunately kind of killed it off as it did many things. And so it was Foley Family Wines that came in and picked it up and have made it to what it is today with the launch of everything we have now, as well as the development of a few different new products. And I've known this distillery was pretty well known amongst distillers going into it. I think everybody had really been in awe of the technology that we have. And so when I came on, I had already known Johnny for a decade or so, and I had known a lot of the other staff for multiple years. But even though I'd seen photos of this distillery, I was not ready for how beautiful and how incredibly technologically advanced it is.

Well, fantastic. Can't get over this rye.

Yeah, it's really good, but I hate to say this, Ty, but we need to move on. I know.

Well, good thing you have bottles of it. That's true. That's true. But I'll be sharing that a lot because some folks need to try that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're really happy with that. And I think you'll be happy with the bourbon too. The bourbon is an earth tones corn. So this is an heirloom corn. We had talked about that. And earth tones are an Indian corn loaded with anthocyanins, carotenoids. They are very starchy as opposed to the initial sweetness that you get out of like a yellow dent corn. You can take a yellow dent corn off the cob. You can bite into it and It's still sweet. But if you do that to this earth tones corn, it's like biting into a potato. It just hasn't really developed that way yet. It's similar. You're both cider drinkers, I'm sure, to a certain degree, or at least familiar with cider. Yeah, sometimes.

Right.

So it's often said that the best cider is made from the worst apples. They want it to be made from these things that basically look and taste like potatoes. But once they get fermented and break down, it offers really interesting flavors. And it might not be flattering to call our corn potato flavored, but it is true that once it goes to the cook, I mean, we mill everything on site. Once it goes through our mash tun, goes into our fermenters, you're going to see a different manifestation of it. And so, while I often referred to with the rye as being a candy orange. This is far more of a cherry cola flavor that comes from this. And this is a foreground, a four-grain bourbon as well with 60% corn, 20% rye, 10% oats in this release, and 10% barley. We later on switched out to oats only because it started to gum up our equipment too badly. And honestly, it was just too brutal to work with. and causing too many repairs. So we switched over to wheat similar to the rye.

Yeah, I've heard horror stories about oats.

Yeah. Oats sounds good on the surface, but when you get into it, you're like, wait a minute, what have we done here?

It's exactly like oatmeal. So it does all of the things. Imagine, we've all seen stills, man. Just imagine trying to push oatmeal through that. And it's awful. It's just awful. It's gluey. It's terrible. I don't think anybody who worked with it at extent eats oats to this day. I think they're all pretty horrified by the idea. And they were the hardest of the crops to grow out this way as well.

And again, the bourbon is also four years old and the same proof at 94. And that cherry cola nose, yeah, that's spot on.

Yeah, it's something that I thought was really unique about the bourbon. This is another one that is going to be aged in that Bardstown, Kentucky, rick house. Really want to try to bring it back to those conditions that are unique to the formation of that spirit. Again, we'd love to be able to mature in our own climate. And honestly, when we get to talk about the future of the distillery, maybe that's something that we're looking into to see how to best do it. I haven't really figured it out yet. But this is supposed to present a more Western flavor profile than what you would get out of Kentucky. Something that's got a little bit more dirt and it's a little bit more dusty, but all in very flattering ways, while still having a lot of fruit and sweetness to it as well. I just would put it, compared to your standard Kentucky bourbon, which has all of that yellow debt, it's just not quite the same. It has that cola spiciness.

And this one is also in the 40 some dollar range.

Same price, $44.99. Okay. Yeah. So we're, we're, we're priced to move. The reason for that is, is purely that, uh, there's a lot of competition out there and this is about building a brand and really getting something out the door.

Okay. So this is a different animal altogether. This is not at all like the rye. It definitely does have that, that cherry cola nose, but when you sip on it, You get this initial wash of sweetness, which is really pleasant. Uh, kind of really coats your whole palette. Oh man. That's lovely. It's got like a coolness to it. Like it's, it's, it's, um, yeah, it's like a nice cool wash of sweetness that just, this coats everything in my mouth.

Say I've got like a cherry cola and I just took a like a small scoop of vanilla ice cream and just kind of do it in there. It's, Oh, that's lovely.

That's really good.

This is really nice. See, this is, this is what it's, it's. It's been wonderful to work with these people. This is the most together team of distillers I've had the luck of working with in 20 years. And the products speak for themselves. The idea is, again, we're trying to bring something that's only from this place and put it in a bottle and to get it out to everybody. This is all also being made in some pretty excellent distilling equipment for still nerds out there. We're using a Christian Karl hybrid still. So we do make a vodka with two columns that are attached to it. But when running bourbon or rye, it's just getting 100% copper contact all the way around from pot to right before the condenser, purely on a pot still. Two for two in my book. These are fantastic. Another kind of cool part, I'm sorry, I'm going to keep on, it's more fun because it takes too long for me to lay them all at once. Another really interesting thing about our distillery is that for our bourbon and our rye, we're using wooden fooders. So these large oak fermentation tanks, they just become a little bit inundated naturally with flora and fauna and bacteria and all the things that you're not supposed to do, all the things that add chaos. but they also, they also add elements of kind of the similar special qualities that like sourdough has your own starter is your own starter. And this, this helps add those secondary fermenters back into the fermentation to have a concise and kind of more colorful yeast quality to it.

No, are these, are these cedar or oak?

They're, they're oak. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

Cause it makes me think of Belgian beer. So I love those. So it's no wonder I love this.

Fooder is spelled F-O-E-D-E-R. Correct? Correct.

Correct. I believe so. That's how I was spelling it in my head as I was talking to you.

Yeah. Yeah. F-O-E-D-E-R.

Excellent. So one of the really cool things I thought about you guys is you use snowpack water from the Sierra Nevada.

Yeah. We have possibly the best water I've ever dealt with as a cutting and proofing agent. It's really just amazing. The aquifer that we're on in our pump is directly on campus. So it's right in the center of the distillery. It happened to be what's known as the source one well in Minden. It was the very first well ever put in starting in 1904 or so, early 1900s. And it still to this day provides the town of Minden with water. We get first rights to the water that comes off of it, but everything else goes to the town and it's the cleanest water I've ever had. I've moved around quite a bit in my life and which I love doing. I love seeing this country and there's a lot of wonderful things about every state, but there's a couple of things they have in common. Every place tells you they have the best water and usually it's not. And every place, you know, that's the number one thing is quite honestly is every place is always really bragging about their water. I was rather cynical about it when they started telling me about it, but it is the best. Just clean and sweet. It doesn't require much. We basically just carbon strip it one time through to bring it back to something neutral and that's our entire platform. We don't have to remove the same sort of minerals that other people do and it's just a very clean water source.

You know, Todd, this, uh, this whiskey has this cool, fresh wash that just, every time I sip it, it just comes in like it's, uh, like it's been chilled a little bit. It's just amazing.

Maybe it's that Sierra Nevada snow cap water. I mean, just saying it makes me feel chill.

There's still snow up there. I mean, as I drive into work, I usually get to see it. You can't even plant tomatoes here before roughly the 4th of July. So, the snow stays up there a long time and on a good year, it's enough to... We're really, really lucky with water here. It's basically the area around the Carson Valley is about a 10-mile band that right before the true high desert, you can have crop. It doesn't extend very far. If we were to go 10 miles further east, it would be just rock hard sand and desert. There's just nothing that can grow out there. But we're right in this little band of a few different rivers and really good aquifers just that are coming off that mountain. And so when I drive into work, I can see the mountains to my right, and I can see the grain that we grow to the left. And I can see the distillery straight ahead. And on this one little vision, I can see every single product that we use. And for that, as a distiller is just unreal. That's just not a thing that I ever expected to be able to do in my career.

Wow. That's pretty amazing.

It's incredible. Amazing. And then there's also things you get to play around with, right? Like we have this year 80 acres of experimental corn that I'm growing. Just to see what happens, right? Like, I don't know if this will be anything in the future. I do not know. But I want to be sure that there's other things that we can achieve. And so this time next year, there'll be distillates of, you know, there'll be distillates of these, of a Jumpin' Jimmy Red corn and Aranaki Indian corn and these things that are just harsh, hearty, raw, very different corn than we've ever really tasted in the spirit before.

So Todd and I are huge fans of Jimmy Redd. So no doubt.

Well, we're playing around with it. I don't know what's going to happen yet. We'll see how well it grows out here.

Awesome. All right, Todd. So what do you say? We'll take a quick break here. We'll continue sipping on this bourbon. And when we come back, we've got another expression for men in mill and more about their story. So folks stick around. We'll be right back.

Hey roadies, it's Diane Strong with Bourbon on the Banks Festival again. We have another amazing event this year, but we want you to come early because we've got a lot of events leading up to the festival. Starting on Thursday, we've got another mixology with master mixologist Heather Wibbles on the Bourbon Bell and O.H. Ingram. Leading into Friday, we have got Peggy No Stevens. She's back with another bourbon pairing and a lesson called The Stave is the Rage. It's going to be amazing. Limestone Heritage Distilling is going to be bringing in three single barrels. You're going to learn a lot. We've got the VIP coming back and this year we are celebrating women in bourbon. This year, Bourbon on the Banks Festival promises to be even better than ever. We've already got more than 70 distilleries that are going to be there. More than anything, I need to encourage you to get your tickets as soon as possible. They're selling fast. Some of them are already sold out. If you want to come this year, please get your tickets. We don't want to miss you on October 4th in Frankfort, Kentucky on the banks of the amazing Kentucky River.

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All right, folks, welcome back to the second half of the show. We're here with Joe O'Sullivan of Minden Mill Distilling. We have just sampled their Nevada straight rye and their Nevada straight bourbon. And wow, I am very, very, very impressed. And that's coming from a Kentucky guy. So what do you think, Jim?

Yeah, I'm very impressed. The rye was absolutely delightful. I'm definitely going to keep that on my bar. There's no doubt about it. I know you have the bottle, Todd, but I've got to get you one.

We may have to thumb wrestle for it.

Uh, the bourbon had this great cool wash of, uh, of sweetness and, uh, and it was, it was very deep and it had a nice, uh, uh, like, like a, like a cool, fresh palette. I mean, it was just, wow. I don't think I've ever had anything that. felt this kind of, uh, like a super cooled or sub-cooled kind of, uh, I don't know, fresh, I don't know, like a cool, fresh stream. I don't know. It was really good. I really enjoyed it. It was wonderful.

I was going to say, I always take, um, a chewing gum adjectives as a compliment. So cool, fresh dream sounds like a really that that's high praise.

Yeah. So Joe, you've said you've been into the distilling business for about 20 years now. What kind of got you in to that 20 years ago? What kind of drove you there?

Yes, I started off at a place called Clear Creek Distillery back in 2005 in Portland, Oregon. And honestly, there was no talk about Really craft selling at the time there was actually an argument being made a couple years later that was whether to call artisanal her to call craft and there was a big debate in and most distillers just really hated every second of that debate we just want to be distilled. And I have just stuck it out since. And so I worked at Clear Creek for a number of years. I wound up moving to New York, consulted on and worked at a number of the first distilleries there, and then got hired back on at Hood River Distillers to be master distiller there, which oversaw everything across their portfolio, which included Clear Creek, a really fantastic now gone gin distillery in Seattle called Big Gin. then also Pendleton Whiskey, as well as their value brands. So it's this really amazing education and how to work across all shelves from the most value-driven to the most ultra-premium brand and know how to make all of them in one way or another. And so sometimes that was mashing and doing punchdowns on your own locally picked pears for pear brandy. And sometimes that was receiving tanker cars of Canadian whiskey that you help go up to Canada and blend for US bottling and stuff like that. So it was this just amazing experience that I got to have working there. A couple of years ago, I got called by the Foley's who were purchasing this place, Minden Mill. And they wanted somebody to be the master distiller for Foley Family Spirits who could help get this going. That's been the easiest part. Unbelievable team here. But eventually come in and also work with the rest of their brands as well and try to represent them the best. And then also any new product development has to come out of my camp too. So, we're always trying to do new things at Minden, whether it's a Minden product or not down the road. Or whether it carries the name Minden, I should say. And I've been going at it ever since. It's been one of the best experiences I could have ever imagined. What we're about to taste is going to be American single malt. You're going to hear a little bit more about this then, but the man who trained me at Clear Creek was Steve McCarthy. He was the third craft distiller in the US and he was my complete mentor in this industry. He also is the man that's credited with releasing the first American single malt with McCarthy's Oregon single malt. I've been making it for 20 years since, basically. It's, to me, more of a thank you and a love letter to this man who gave me my chance than it is anything else. There's another me and another dimension that I'm always aware of that's a pretty happy guy, but not as happy or as lucky as this one. When we talk a little bit more American single malt, there's some real interesting reasons why that's something for all whiskey drinkers to keep their eye on.

I'm ready to notice it. How about you, Jim?

I'm ready. Let's do it.

Okay. So we jump up a year on this one, correct? This is a five-year product? This is a five. This is a five, yeah. Okay. And I think the price goes up just a hair maybe?

Yeah, the price goes up. Let me just confirm on my notes. The price goes up to $59.99 on this one.

That's what I thought.

So it's still very affordable.

But when it comes to grains, barley is the most expensive, typically, right?

And we also malt our own barley. I mean, this is another process that we're putting into it. We are doing this at our malt house, which is in between the ranch that we grow the grain and the distillery itself. The American single malt is, is good. Oh, what were you getting? Sorry, Jim, I stepped on your words.

Yeah, I was going to say that's very unique. There's not a lot of distilleries that operate their own malting house. So, I mean- No, there's super few. Yeah.

I think, I mean, none of true inspiration driven from Leopold Brothers on that entire approach to things too. Cause Todd and what they're doing there is just some of the best work in our industry. I don't think anyone would deny it. But that's still that love for what you're working with, love for what you have, something that's from the earth around you is part of what we're really trying to drive. And I'm going to go a little bit longer on how cool this production is because this is what sold me to take the job. This also uses what's known as a thermal oil calandria to heat it. And so basically, instead of it getting heated through low-pressure steam, stills aren't really rated for high steam. They're going to go off at 10 to 12 psi a lot of the time. And so you're not going to generate a ton of heat. but you will generate enough to distill. It's not nearly as close as the 200 degrees Celsius that a direct fire still used to do. When I was at Clear Creek in the mean old days, I was trained as a direct fire distiller. I'm glad to see the dangers of those going away. But with this thermal oil calendria, instead of heating the steam, it's heating a mineral oil. Same thing that you put on your butcher block. So, food-grade mineral oil. And that goes through an insert in the center of the still where we can actually heat that up to 180... We can heat it as high as we want. But we currently cook at 185 degrees Celsius. the value of that with not just being super close to the actual original traditional direct fire is that it crosses the 160 degrees Celsius mired reaction line. So, if you're going to cook a steak at 155, you're not going to get a sear on it. But if you cook it at 165, you'll start to get a sear on the crust. And that mired reaction, that conversion of temperature and carbon chain to produce something really magically tasty is key to making high ester, high flavor whiskies in general. And that's exactly how we run this on two massive and beautiful fourth size stills. So, sixth generation still manufacturers. And there's one other crazier thing. We have similar to how that Rick house for the bourbon and rye is climate locked to a weather station in Bardstown, Kentucky. This one is connected to a weather station in Belinda Lock, Scotland.

Oh, wow.

So, if you go to that parking lot of the Rick houses, it's dry and dusty in the parking lot because it's Nevada. Then you go into the swampy subtropical climate of Bardstown and then you can go into a different building and it's high humidity, chilly, coastal Scotland.

And your visitors to your distillery get to experience this?

Uh, no, they're way off campus, but I get the brag about them and I get to talk to them with it.

It's part of the, uh, it's part of the demonstration or talk anyway.

Well, you got it. You have to have some magic in the background. You can't show them everything. Yeah. And again, this is a beautiful collection of barrels. Once again, our barrel lead is heart and soul and everything he does and brings to us great stuff to blend with and work with. This is going to be a combination of new American oak Some used bourbon. At this stage, it's not ours because it was one of our first release, so we didn't have our own bourbon barrels to put back into the system. In the future, it will be. And then it's also going to be a certain amount of STRs, so shave, toast, rechar, barrels. And then some Oloroso sherry. There's some PX in that barrel room too, but at the last batch it's just Oloroso.

We think Jim on that nose.

I love it. I think it has a, uh, kind of a, a deep, sweet kind of honey pear nose to it. I really liked that.

A bit of butterscotch apricot.

Yeah. That, uh, compote. Sure. I mean, it's, uh, it's got this concentrated like a compote. Um, it has a nice sweetness to it, but you just get this like overall kind of. really nice white stone fruit nose to it. I really like it.

Yeah. And this is one thing that hadn't really occurred to me before, but it's in the 90s here during the day and this bottle was sitting behind me on a workbench and it's warm because they didn't put any ice into it. And it's really pleasant, even on a hot summer day. It does still hold up. I'm really happy with this one. It's another silver from the Ascot Awards. So yay on that one. And I mean, pretty much the luck of having all your own products and being able to speak this honestly about how much you care about them because they're that good is phenomenal. Yeah.

Now, the mouth feel to me is amazing in all three of these. So I'm assuming you guys go into the barrel fairly low.

Uh, yeah, we go into the barrel fairly low and not as high as some, has some, I mean, it's still 120. So 110 would be, would be kind of traditional with a lot of single malts. We're still going in a little bit higher in that. Um, but you're, I, I, it's more to me is, I mean, it's not 125 or something like that. But to me, it's more of the high-temperature cooking that we're able to do. So once you start to distill at those higher temperatures, you're going to start breaking apart carbon chains to form these really amazing amino acids. And normally, that would happen in the barrel over a decade or so through the through oxygen basically getting to the barrel and mixing with the alcohol and the acids to perform, to produce esters. But our ester load right off the still is pretty high. And well, I mean, this is the kind of bragging thing that we've done very little experience experimenting with. But our new make in some tests came out with a higher ester load than, you know, some of the more traditional scotches that had been aged for a minimum number of years, not the long age ones. I'm not going to hang a hat on that one. That seems it's a little too good to be true, but it did pan out for that one test, so we'll brag a little bit about it. In general, that mouthfeel, that kind of thickness, that real high viscosity, that's gonna be more of the distillation than anything else. And it's purely just this type of equipment. The beautiful, beautiful stills are amazing. And these foresight stills are cool as can be. I mean, you see these things and you feel like you're walking into McKellen or one of the most traditional Scotch distilleries out there. That's really cool.

It seems to me like as part of our conversation here, you're kind of revealing yourself a little bit as an organic chemist with some special specialties surrounding amino acids and esters and esterification and maybe even peptides.

I think that there's hardly a person in the industry that doesn't have a biology or a science or an engineering degree, something. I have a biology degree. Steve, when he hired me, I also have a lot of carpentry experience. Growing up in New England, there wasn't always a job in science. I often was a carpenter. And when Steve, when I knocked on the door at Clear Creek, Steve looked at my degree and he says, I don't really care about your science degree. I just, it says here, you can swing a hammer. And so he taught me how to, he just immediately put me on the barrel. Well, a couple of things happened in a row. The first thing that happened is he said, I have about 30 barrels that I don't know how to fix and you have to fix them for me, please. Because he was a really wonderful distiller, terrible Cooper. And I did, that was the first thing is I did is I fixed a bunch of his barrels. I looked at a ton of stuff up on early YouTube. And then I also wound up going eventually to Oregon Barrel Works and taking some lessons from Rick DeFerrari there. And I just kind of stuck it with the in-house barrel repair in Cooper. And then eventually just fix anything in the house guy that we had. And honestly, that mechanical aspect of my history is what's really paid off more than anything else. But I still really appreciate the science that goes into it. And for anyone out there who's young and getting into whiskey but also has a science degree, do not... The one thing they teach you in science school is that you can only find employment through some sort of research or medicine, but it couldn't be further from the truth. There's a lot of avenues for science out there that if you just think a little creatively, you'll find a bunch of weirdos like us out there. What do you guys know about American Sing-A-Mole? Are you dedicated fans or are kind of new to the category?

I would say that we are, we are long time proponents of the American single malt movement. I would say that we're delighted that it has recently received, um, the attention that deserves specifically getting its own, uh, category. And, and, you know, I mean, it's, it's been around for a while. I think that, you know, in, in terms of worldwide distribution, single malt whiskeys have a, uh, have a huge following. And it's great that American single malts can be part of that now. So we're pretty happy about that.

Yeah, I feel the same. I was going to say, I'll just add that we just don't have time to do the single malt road, or we probably would. Because we do dedicate the occasional episode where we'll get together and we call ourselves the Malt Migos. We invite a couple of friends and we'll try some different American single malts and we've had a lot of fun with that.

I mean, it's the coolest thing that's happened in this industry. I can't believe they get to be part of a period of time in an industry where there's a whole new category started. And to think that while we're talking about it, it's impossible to talk about American Single Mall without just thanking the American Single Mall Whiskey Commission for what they were able to achieve and what Steve Hawley from Westland and later on the president of that was able to achieve. But it's you'd be the first to tell you what really was the magic of this was the collective effort of everybody involved and if there's one thing you'll hear me say some podcasts all the time there's one thing i always want people to know is how incredibly special this industry is and how close the people who work in this industry are the the sense of. Amongst production, there's no competition. There's only enthusiasm and wanting to see where someone's going to go. And that only happens when there's a bright future ahead in endless amounts of experiments and possibilities ahead of you. That's the only time you see people supporting each other that way. I was gonna say American single malt is gonna be a big part of that because you were already starting to see little like cultural enclaves of flavors starting to develop like in the barbecue states. There's like, they're smoking with things that we would never do, you know, in Oregon or here in Nevada. They're trying all sorts of new things. And so, there's gonna be so much experimentation and the whole world's gonna be watching what we're doing because the continent is so big and we have so many cultures to contribute.

I think there's some big players in this arena and I'm not going to mention specific names, but let's just say that Colorado, Nevada, Iowa is big. Also, believe it or not, New Mexico. Very recently, Todd, we had some great New Mexico whiskey and there's a lot going on out there and it's very disperse and the terroir of each area is very evident in the whiskey. It's just amazing. I know Colorado was early, but Iowa has killed it. You guys, this is amazing.

This is really good. If you're referring to a certain Iowa distiller that I think you are, that's a huge compliment because Iowa really is doing some of the best stuff out there. I'm really incredibly happy to be part of what we're doing here. This is a passion of mine to make American Single Malt well known because it's weighted. to say thank you, to say thank you to someone that really helped me out. And where it's at today is as cool as can be. And I still think it's, I think it's really leading what in 20 years from now, a lot of countries are going to look back on and say, oh man, if Scotland was as big as a continent, they would have all these weird little enclaves as well. So I'll be thrilled to see what happens in 20 years.

Yeah. I mean, when you look at Scotland and how small the physical area of Scotland is and how it has these very distinct terars within Scotland, you think of the U.S. and what we can do here with our very different, amazing climate differences across the U.S. and the area we have here. The growing differences in the agriculture as well as the The temperate and the climate is just amazing. We could do such an amazing job here with single malts.

So it's, it's already happening. I guarantee it. It's because every, every, like I said, everyone's a scientist. So we all like to experiment. We want to see what is going to happen. It's, it's somehow we've, we've, um, we're just glad that you're all along for the ride with us. Cause it's unreal to have a movement like this in your career.

So let's talk a little bit about your distillery and the, and the visitor experience that you have there.

Yeah. So anyone who wants to come and see what we're doing to get a tour, you can go to MindenMill.com and sign up. We are in Minden, Nevada, which is about 20 minutes east of South Lake Tahoe, 17 miles. So, I don't know, maybe 25 minutes east of South Lake Tahoe. We're 20 minutes south of Carson City. That's where I live. in 40 minutes south of Reno. So if you're going skiing, if you're anywhere in Northern Nevada, come and join us. The tours that we have there are great. You'll see the entire distillery for both the bourbon and rye facility, as well as the single malt facility. You can taste products. There's an incredible, often not recognized bartending staff there that is I mean, I did take them each aside and cover like, this is a very small town in Nevada. You're too good at what you do for us. You understand that, right? And they luckily thought I was joking. But they really are phenomenal, phenomenal mixologists. So you can also purchase our products through that. We're growing really quick. We're currently, last time I checked in, we're in 12 states. We launch, I believe, in Missouri next week. Missouri, I'm coming at you next week. And then also, we're looking to be at 26 by the end of the year and 50 by the following.

I'm going to jump in here. Can you rattle off those 12? Are you good at it?

I'm not good at it, but I can give you the highlights, uh, and apologies to anyone who's, who's not there. Oregon, California, uh, Oregon, California, Nevada, New York, Illinois, um, toss Missouri in there, Michigan. And I want to see Texas stay safe, Florida already in Massachusetts. Wow, Florida, you lucky guys. We got into Florida. Yay. Florida's a really good one. Florida, you've always been kind to us. I'm not going to turn down Florida. No, it's been great. And the growth of something to all of these places, to all of these states has been really wonderful. So, I hope we're aligned with Southern. We're going to be in all 50 states by the end of next year. And the most important thing is that we're going to keep on innovating. So there's going to be stuff that you can only get from the tasting room. You can come on that way. We're still trying to figure out exactly how to best grow this and to make it the most worthwhile for everyone. But it's going great so far. And I want to thank everyone at Foley for it and everyone who supports me at the distillery.

You guys are in 12 states now. You plan to expand your reach in the US here to many more states in the future. So you guys are growing, right?

Yeah, we're growing really big. We are going to be in every state in the nation in the next two years and having a great time getting this whole product out there and showing a little bit of what the Carson Valley has to offer.

That's awesome. So currently we have, uh, three of your expressions we've had on the show today. We had your, uh, we had your rye, we had your bourbon and we had your single malt whiskey. What kind of things do you have planned for the future?

Well, we're going to have a number of really interesting finishes. I've been teasing just one of them, even though we have four lined up. Um, I've been teasing just one of them probably against the advice of my marketing team, but I'm going to do it anyway, which is a, floor malted American single malt that has been aged exclusively in orange wine barrels from an orange wine we made ourselves. So, the richness and the unctuousness, I think, is the only word, even though that is the biggest SAT word I can think of, that rich quality of the malting process comes through more than anything else. And these are going to be the kind of things you can find on our that you can find in our tasting room in Minnesota and, and possibly in the future, other places as well, if they catch on.

So Vino, what is it? Vino Aranya? Vino de Aranya. Vino de Aranya.

Or at least that's what's said on the barrels.

I imagine that is absolutely amazing.

It's wild. It's wild. Yeah.

Yeah. So you guys are definitely getting into the finishing business and introducing some special releases surrounding that. Do you have some... In addition to your orange barrels, do you have some other things that you're working on as well?

Well, of course, we're always working on older products, more barrel strength, calf strength products. We don't have a single barrel program at the moment, but that doesn't mean that one won't come up once the flagship is a little bit better established. There are a number of other products that we have at the distillery. There's an award-winning vodka. For anyone who's given up on vodka, I would say try ours. It's delicious. It's called High Ground. And then we also... Every good distillery should have a liqueur. Now, the cures are a wonderful place to find a way to like, you know, offer something that's a little bit sweeter to the to the people out there as well because not everyone's into things that are bone dry and 94 proof. I understand it. So we offer a coffee liqueur called Evil Bean as well, which is quickly becoming one of our most successful products. And that one's partnered up with a local roastery named Alpine Sierra that's right down the road. So we're still keeping that idea of locality true to our entire portfolio.

Well, fantastic. Well, Joe, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show today and thank you so much for sharing your whiskeys with us. I think Todd and I were Absolutely delighted in what we tasted today and we're definitely looking forward to what you have in the future.

Well, I thank you for having me on. This has been a blast. I've, uh, enjoyed this tremendously. So having back on in a couple of years, it would be really fun to give you an update as where we're at and who knows what we're going to be releasing then.

Well, we may not wait a couple of years. We, we might want to try that, uh, you know, day around you when you have it released.

I think if you get out this way, I'll, I'll make sure that you try some.

Sounds good. Well, Joe, thank you so much. We certainly appreciate you taking the time tonight to come on the show with us. Definitely appreciate you sending us bottles and sharing your whiskey with us. We hope our listeners will, uh, we'll get on board and, uh, and check you out. You, I think, uh, uh, what, what's your website and what's your, uh, your social media handles.

Minden mill.com and Instagram for Minden mill. M I N D E N mill.

Fantastic. Well, thank you again, Joe. We really appreciate it. And thank you for sending your samples to us and we had a great time tonight.

Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Todd, very much.

All right. Well, you can find the bourbon road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook threads, all those things every single week. Todd and I will put together an episode. We'll have a guest on like Joe from men in mill distilling. Sometimes it's just Todd and I, sometimes we'll have a guest on a musician or a author or a poet. It's, it's always fun. You know, somebody comes on, they want to drink whiskey with us. It's, it's always a lot of fun and a lot of laughs. We have a good time. We hope you'll join us every single week. Uh, the best way not to miss us is to go to the top of that app. You're on hit that subscribe button. That way when we release an episode, you'll get that immediate notification. Let you know that Jim and Todd have dropped another episode of the bourbon road podcasts. We look forward to it next time, but in the meantime, we'll see you down the bourbon room.

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