84. Rare Bird 101 - Sippin' and Talkin' Turkey

Is that like wild turkey 2027 where they've got weeded whiskey.

I don't think we're going to do weeded at wild turkey, but you never know. You never know.

Welcome to another trip down the Bourbon Road with your hosts, Jim and Mike. So grab a glass of your favorite bourbon and kick back.

We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Log Heads Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Find out more about their fine rustic furniture at logheadshomecenter.com. Hello everybody. I'm Jim Shannon. And I'm Mike Hyatt. And this is the Bourbon Road. And today, Mike, we are once again in Stream Yard, but this time with a very good friend.

So we got rarebird101, AKA David Jennings from North Augusta, South Cackalacky. That'd be South Carolina for all you northerners out there.

David, how you doing, man? Doing great. How y'all doing? Really good. We're so glad you decided to drink bourbon with us tonight. You know, it's always good when you can sit down with a few bottles of a wild turkey expression and chat with a fellow that has probably tasted most of the expressions that have been around in the last 10 or 15, 20 years or more, right? I've had a few, a few of them.

So David, for all of our listeners out there, you are the end all be all for Wild Turkey, right? You're the man, the myth, the legend when it comes to Wild Turkey. Besides Jimmy Russell, you're the guy that has all that knowledge about Wild Turkey in your head though, right?

Well, I'm what they call people will say expert. I say I'm not an expert, but you can call me an expert fan. So I'm like a I'm a super fan. It's just something I got passionate about a few years ago and really took a dive enough to where, you know, I started a blog and now I have a book that's out, which I'm sure we'll talk about later. But, you know, really, it's total admiration. You know, I'm not an employee of Campari or Wild Turkey. I never have been. All of this I do out of love for, you know, what I consider the best bourbon in the world. And, you know, it's, it's just genuine appreciation. That's what it is.

So we just call you a Wild Turkey bullshitter then.

Yeah. Well, I'm Wild Turkey super fan. How about that one?

Well, David, we have had you on the show before you were actually one of our earlier guests. You were on episode six and that was well over a year ago. And you were having kind of a super user meet in Lexington, Kentucky. Uh, I guess it was your Patreon. You get out and visit your patrons from time to time.

And yeah, that was my annual meeting. That's right.

Yeah, it was great. We really enjoyed the time with you there and you carved out a little time for us and we were able to record an episode. And at that time you were just starting on your book. And we're going to get up, we're going to get into all about what you've had going on in the last year. But one of the things that we like to do, Mike is what?

Well, I was getting to it. I was like, Oh man, we got to drink some whiskey here.

We like to drink whiskey pretty early in the show.

So the first one we want to drink is the wild turkey, the new bottled bond 17 year.

Yeah. The master's keep. Yep. It's a, it's a fantastic expression. Uh, Most of the reviews have been really, really well. The praise has been high, I guess I should say. For me, it was very, very high. I was top of my scale. I've heard a few folks that aren't too crazy about it, mainly because of the oak influence. But if you don't appreciate a real oaky bourbon, this is not for you. You've got to like some oak. And when I say oak, I mean like some serious Oak. Uh, but if you like that in your bourbon, this is about as good as it gets.

Yeah. Well, let's, let's check it out guys. Yeah. So that Oak is, uh, it is really present there and that's, uh, it's kind of fragrant, right? I mean, it's kind of a, um, like a potpourri.

Yeah.

I guess that's, that's probably a good term for it.

Yeah, it's got that potpourri. It's got a nice cherry vibe to it, like a burnt cherry or a cherry wood. Red Minute called it a cherry pie. I mean, I could see that. A lot of heavy charry kind of notes, you know. Maybe a smoked cherry pie. Yeah. Oh, now that's a good, Hey, there. Yeah. Yeah.

Never had a smoke cherry pie, but I could, I could get that.

I can relate.

Yeah. I get some smokiness out of it. Maybe it's because of that Oak has been, you know, it's been sitting in the Oak so long, but.

It's got a lot of herbal, like dark herbal spice to it. Um, and like maybe like some blood orange, you know, I could easily see someone pulling out tobacco and leather, uh, these types of earthier notes. Um, it's got a lot of character for how many years and what the proof is. And you know, not to mention, you know, it's bottled in bonds. This is all one season, you know, it's, you know, it's, uh, I mean, there's not a lot of whiskeys on the market that can compare specs or flavor wise.

Well, let's taste it.

You know, it's all downhill from here. You know, we, we picked a hell of a bourbon to start with, you know,

Well, you know, the, the two that we're having here and we won't talk yet about what we're going to have in the second half, but it kind of made sense to have this one first in my opinion. Okay. But, um, maybe, maybe not. We'll find out.

Yeah, we'll see.

Yeah. It's, uh, it's definitely, it, it's very similar on the palette. I think it's got a, um, but it's, it's, you're getting a little bit more spice on it. I'm getting some clove and maybe some, um, a little bit of pepper.

Yeah, clove in there for sure. Someone could find, you know, sassafras, all these types of earthy, you know, sweet earthy kind of licorice, these types of things just, you know, sing in this whiskey. One thing I found is, you know, I enjoyed it the first time I tried it, but I didn't really appreciate it till, you know, a couple of weeks later after I'd kind of, someone had sent me two samples. I had the first one and then I waited a little while and had the second one. And I guess I kind of knew what I was going into. And I compared it with the original 17 year, which a lot of people enjoy the not the rush. I should rephrase that the original 17 years of 2001. 17 year, that's a duty free export type release. But when I mean the original 17 years, the original Masters Keep 17 year, that was 86.8 proof. I compared the two and on the nose, they had a lot of similarities. But then when you hit that pallet and finished, it's like, in my opinion, the bottom bond just destroyed it. I mean, it was like, this is next level, not that the original masters keep 17 year isn't fantastic. It is, but this is just the next level.

Once you hit that palette and finish, I'm actually getting some whorehound beer candy on that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No whorehound and sass brass kind of give you that root beer type, you know, uh, vibe. It's, it's got a lot of that character to it. Um, there's old fashioned candies, you know, the choose the old molasses choose and things like that.

Well, we know you're a good Southern country boy when you know what a whorehound is, right?

We would always get whorehound candy over, uh, uh, the corner store. They had like a bag. It was like a little cardboard looking bag and it just had like a generic, you know, you can get like lemon drops and cherry and stuff like that. And whorehound was in there. Um, you know, I like those old fashioned candies. You don't see them anymore, but like clove gum and beach nut gum and those types of things.

Man, you still get that stuff. You just gotta know where to go to.

I guess you gotta have the, the, uh, you gotta know the secret.

Well, the hormones you can get at tractor supply, I think. Right. Yeah.

Cracker barrel, maybe too. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Well, David, you, um, started your whiskey year, uh, journey a number of years back and you actually talked about that a little bit in your book. I think you said like six years ago, you began kind of your whiskey journey and can you kind of give us just a little bit and how you got into whiskey and sort of what was your gateway?

Well, I mean, I always appreciated, you know, bourbon, Jack Daniels, Tennessee whiskey, even Crown Royal. When I was young in college, having a Jim and Coke or Jack and Coke, Crown and Coke, these types of things were my favorite things to drink. More so than beer. You know, I was never really a beer guy. I mean, I can appreciate a nice cold beer every once in a while, but it was just never my preference. And that was kind of what whiskey was to me for many many years it was just a mixer. And it wasn't too long ago like you said maybe six years ago or so. I was introduced to whiskey on the rocks from my brother-in-law. And I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought. I thought he was making me a mixed drink. And when he gave it to me on the rocks, I was like, Hmm, that's interesting. And, and I, and I liked it a lot. So, uh, went out to a bunch of liquor stores and started picking up different whiskies, whether they were Scotch or Irish or Canadian, or eventually bourbon. I just started trying to find the best whiskey in the world kind of thing. I'm going to find the best whiskey. And you get on blogs and you buy books and you buy magazines and you're trying to narrow it down. What is the best? And of course, I follow a lot of the past and a lot of other people that are in the hobby are now where you're chasing weeded bourbons and things that are popular. But I stayed clear from wild turkey just because I remembered wild turkey from my college days as being like the shooter bourbon. And, you know, that was kind of what you, you know, did kind of get wasted for the most. And so I never really considered it a serious whiskey in my mind. It was kind of what I considered maybe rock gut or old man's whiskey or something. And one day I picked up a payment checkout and I brought it back and tending for it to maybe be a material for a laughable review. And it ended up being really good. So much so I was like, wow, this is great. And I started kind of buying it pretty regularly. And I would talk about it on Reddit. That time I was pretty active on our bourbon. Uh, and someone reached out to me and asked me if I had had dusty turkey and I went down that rabbit hole. and started buying every wild turkey expression I could find in hopes of finding something similar to those dusty pours, which we all know that's not realistic with any brand. But in the process, I discovered a lot of whiskeys that I loved and fell in love with the brand even more when I started researching its history. And I've always appreciated the underdog, which very much wild turkey is. And All of that eventually just led to me writing a bunch of wild turkey reviews and putting them on a blog that I eventually shared with the world and never imagined it would take off like it did. There's a lot of people out there that love wild turkey and that are discovering that you don't have to spend a lot of money to find something very high quality. And I think that that resonates with a lot of people right now. That's kind of, and that, that's really, that's where it all kind of started with just, you know, you pick it up, you taste it for what it is and you know, you just, your love grows.

How much time a day do you spend like researching or thinking, or just, just doing wild turkey? What do you, what do you spend a day on that?

Well, I have a Patreon account and I try to keep that rather updated. I feel like I need to, you know, provide content. And frankly, I enjoy it. So I look forward to sharing whether it's a review or a new blend I'm trying or a video or whatever. i try to maintain a lot more content on my patreon than i do my blog my blog is a post that i do once a week and sometimes those posts i can write in you know a day or two and then sometimes it takes me several days or all week depending on you know, what it's about and how much I need to research or how much time I need to spend on the subject or how I'm motivated. It just all depends. But, you know, I definitely spend a couple hours every day working on whether it's blog posts or patron posts or videos, or I might just be tasting things. I might be tasting things, making notes that I'll be using later when I'm sharing things with patrons or readers on the blog.

I noticed, uh, yesterday you kind of tease the whiskey world a little bit. And, uh, you put up a post of, uh, the small bottle of WB Sappho. And then you have a gigantic bottle, the once 1.75 bottle and it, I guess you made that label, but it's really a blend you did at your house. Right.

Yeah, it I was kind of trolling Instagram for a while there. And it was amazing to see how many people actually thought it was real for a minute there. My inkjet printer prints pretty well, I guess. But yeah, I had, you know, a while back last year, I came up with what I call a hack. It's. It's basically a blend I came up with to imitate WB Sapple. And I spent time on it going back and forth with the real Sapple trying to narrow down as close as I could. And I think I did pretty well with that. And so people have been aware of that for a while. And I'd made a joke a few weeks ago on Discord. I wasn't really joking. I was kind of half joking. But I was like, maybe I really will do this. But I said something about you know, making a handle of sample. So I started going through my cabinet and I'm like, I've got a lot of CNA picks and CNF picks. And of course, you know, I'm picking up rare breed all the time and Russell's 10 all the time. And those are the components for the blend. So I thought, well, I need some cabinet space. So let's do this. And I got out the measuring cup and I went to town. And, uh, of course before then I had to get the bottle cleaned up. So I had to. you know, soak that and put some goof off on it to get the residue off. But I just took a one-on-one handle and cleaned it up and then rinsed it and it dried and I, you know, filled it up and printed off the SAFL label from the TTB website, sized it accordingly and And that was that. But a lot of people ended up, you know, thinking it was real.

So if any of our listeners are curious about the recipe to make that, they just go to rarebird101.com, right? Yeah, you can do a search for hackle.

And it'll pull up the Russell's 10 review from like November or something of last year, and it's within that post. But I mean, for your listeners, it's it's equal parts rare breed 116.8, Russell's 10 year, a CNA Russell's Reserve CNA, you know, single barrel pick and a CNF Russell's Reserve single barrel pick. And, you know, Just equal parts. So yeah. And then feel free to tweak it or, you know, sub something.

Cause they're all good whiskeys, right?

That's right. That's right. But I found it's a solid blend. I mean, it's, it's a one that I make, you know, from time to time, I always have it on hand. It's one of the only blends that I actually make on a regular basis. There's no other blend I can think of that I've come up with that I keep on a regular basis, but that one I do.

I was like, look at this joker, man. He's just fooled a whole bunch of people.

Well, what's inside is real. It's very much, you know, real wild turkey whiskey and it's all quality. I think I calculated it up. It was like about one hundred and fourteen dollars worth in that handle. But I mean, you know, a sample costs like, you know, 50 bucks, you know, a pop. So it's three seventy five or three seventy five. So, you know, you're coming out ahead of the game doing the hackle.

Well, let's, let's talk about your book. Let's get, let's get into that. Um, so you just released American Spirit, Wild Turkey, Bourbon from Rippy to Russell, and that's something you're pretty proud of, right?

I'm damn proud of it. I mean, I'm, I'm thrilled. Um, never thought it would be what it is. I mean, uh, my wife had mentioned to me a couple of years ago that I should write a book. It seemed like a task that, you know, seemed like, you know, foreign to me completely because I've never written a book. And I told her, you know, hey, I just, I don't know if I can write a book. And she's like, well, you write every day. So, you know, why don't you just turn that into a book? So I got to thinking about it and I'm like, why not? So I started and I'm like, well, this isn't as bad as I thought it'd be. And you just kind of, it's like eating an elephant, you know, it's one bite at a time. And eventually I had a draft and I sent that off to a few people just to get their opinions and fact check and this type of stuff. And that's when I started the Kickstarter campaign that we had talked about in the last podcast. And the original intention was to just have a book that was kind of like a print on demand. through services like, you know, Kindle Publishing or something like that. And after the Kickstarter did so well, I realized that, you know, I could take those funds and invest it into the book. Hired Victor Sizemore, who in my opinion is the best photographer in whiskey. And I hired Brett Atlas to copy edit. And I worked out a deal with Mascot Books to get something designed that would look professional. They're a hybrid publisher. So it's not a traditional publisher company, but the product they create is exactly like what you would get with a traditional publisher. So all of that worked out nicely. And I ended up with a book after a lot of blood, sweat, and tears that was a lot better than what I ever envisioned originally. And I have to thank my Kickstarters and Patreon supporters and all the folks that helped shape it and create it and craft it along the way. I'm very much proud of this book, and I hope to keep it updated over the years. But I want to say thank you to everybody that contributed and helped me in making this happen.

And so, David, this book is actually available in the Wild Turkey gift shop at the distillery, right?

That's right. I mean, isn't that cool? I'm just so thankful of that. These kind of things you dream about and you never think that they'll come true and to see that a reality. I mean, it really, when Bo had told me that it was being stocked, I was just so thrilled. So yes, and I think they only have a few copies left. Of course, I'm into my second printing now. So hopefully in the next couple of weeks, everybody will be restocked and people will be able to purchase online and at the visitor center and Justin's and anywhere else that the book was being sold before. So just got to hang in there a few more weeks.

I might have to beat Bo up for not telling me, because I went over there a couple of weeks ago and stopped off to get this bottle of bond and Bo was in there working and he didn't see me walk in. And I told the little girl there, I said, you tell Bo I'm here to whoop his ass. He heard me. I said it loud enough. He spun around.

He's like, who said that?

That was awesome. Big chiefs here.

That was awesome guy. He's just as big of a Wild Turkey fan as me. So just a great guy. Oh yeah. He's awesome.

Well, David, one of the things, one of the statements you made in your book kind of stuck out to me. You said that Wild Turkey embodies the essence of America. So can you kind of tell me what you mean by that?

Well, there's you can look at that from a lot of angles, you know, in terms of the spirit itself, as in the whiskey, to me, it doesn't really get any more American than while Turkey. I know a lot of people think Jack Daniels. they think Jim Beam because those are very popular brands that sell very well and there's nothing against those brands. I appreciate a lot of Jim Beam products and I particularly like Jack Daniel's Single Barrel Barrelproof. And they make great whiskey, both of them. But to me, the story of Wild Turkey is in many ways the story of America. I mean, you have immigrants coming you know, to America, starting a small store, turning that, you know, store into an investment, into a distillery, into many, you know, investments in the distilleries, into eventually, you know, falling, you know, victim to prohibition. opening it back up and producing whiskey again. And, you know, you have a large company like Austin Nichols coming in and purchasing the brand in the 70s. And then you have the story of the Russells. Jimmy Russell, you know, he's like the all-star American, you know, kid great at every sport he could do. And, you know, he signs on the distillery just thinking it might just be a temporary job and ends up being not just a lifetime career. He's the longest tenured master distiller in the world. You know, he's he's made bourbon longer than than anybody else around. He's made whiskey longer than anyone else around. And he's passed that knowledge on to his son, Eddie. And Eddie has shared that with his son, Bruce. You just have a lot of things like tradition and family, and you have this sense of community there in Lawrenceburg. It just has so many elements to me that are just, you know, a picturesque kind of, you know, it's like the ideal America. It's totally Americana. And so when you Take a look at Wild Turkey as a brand. To me, it just that is what I consider an iconic American brand. Now, people may not agree with me. And a lot of people always throw out, well, you know, they're owned by Campari or they were owned by Pernaud or whatever. Well, I mean, you know, Jim Beam is owned by Suntory. I mean, yeah, a lot of brands have foreign ownership. That's not unusual. But that doesn't mean that the heart of the brand itself doesn't scream America. And I think that those foreign investors want that. I think they're looking for a brand that has a genuine, authentic type of American vibe to it. And if it didn't have that, they probably wouldn't invest in it. So there's so many different angles you can look at in that statement. But I'm looking at heritage and, like I mentioned, tradition, authenticity. There's so many things you can relate in my mind you know, between wild turkey and, and, uh, you know, the American dream, basically.

If you thought about, um, Jimmy and Eddie both, have you ever looked at their, like, not just lineage, but like a coaching tree, what the master distillers and other distillers have come out of there. And now there are other distilleries. One that comes to mind for me is Alex Castle at Old Dominic now, and probably some millennials she took with her to Old Dominic from Wild Turkey.

Well, I've never really looked at it that way. I've always kind of thought about it as, you know, if you follow the trail there, you know, from Mr. Hughes, Bill Hughes, who taught Jimmy how to distill, he passed that on to Eddie. And Eddie, you know, is now, you know, helping Bruce as well as Jimmy, you know, rise up. I've kind of looked at that Russell lineage as kind of linear, but it sounds like, you know, maybe I'm missing, there's folks I'm sure that they've inspired and trained and help, like you said, send them out into the world to do their own things. And yes, I'm probably missing a lot of those folks and I apologize for not being as knowledgeable on that as probably you are. But it would not surprise me because, uh, Jimmy and Eddie know what the hell they're doing. So they've probably taught a lot of people some really good things.

That's really the only person I know.

Okay. If you could pick, you know, one master distiller to work under, I mean, who wouldn't pick Jimmy Russell right now? You know, um, it's just, he's a legend, you know, he's kind of, uh,

Effectively referred to as the master distillers master distiller, right?

Yeah. He's, he's a, the last of the living legends. He really is.

Look, I just came up with your next book right there.

You know, someone really should write a book about some of the, uh, master distiller all-stars, you know, with, uh, you know, the Albert T. Lee's and the Parker beam and Booker knows someone should really sit down and kind of, you know, make a, a book where they, highlight some of Kentucky's finest. I think it would do really well, but I'm not necessarily that person because I'm so brand focused and it would be hard for me to spend so much of my time researching each of those, but it's out there right for the pick and for someone listening.

That'd be Big Chief's book right there.

Don't steal my idea. Well, go for it, man. Do it.

All right. Well, listen, we're going to take a short break here. And when we come back, we have another expression from, uh, the wild turkey distillery that we're going to, we're going to sample with you, David. We'll talk a little bit more about your book and some other things you have going on. Uh, we'll see everybody when we get back. We would like to thank Tommy and Gwen Mitchell from Loghead's Home Center for supporting this episode of the Bourbon Road. Loghead's Home Center, nestled in the hills of Kentucky, is an industry leader in building handcrafted rustic furniture. Family-owned and operated, they take pride in offering only the very best for their customers. The Logheads, and that's what they like to call themselves, are skilled woodcrafters who are passionate about creating rustic furniture for people who appreciate the beauty of natural wood. Owners Tommy and Gwen don't just sell the rustic lifestyle, they live it. And you can be sure that Loghead's furniture will always be handcrafted in Kentucky by artisans who embrace the simple way of life. Loghead's rustic furniture is made from northern white cedar, a sustainable wood that's naturally rot and termite resistant. Its beauty and quality will add warmth to your earthy lifestyle for generations to come. Be sure to check out everything they have to offer at LogHeadsHomeCenter.com and while you're at it, give Tommy and Gwen a shout on Facebook or Instagram at LogHeadsHomeCenter.

All right, listeners, we're back. We've got rare bird 101 here with us and we're sitting down and we're drinking some whiskey and Jim has forced me tonight to drink some rare breed barrel proof.

Oh yeah. I had to reach through the monitor and twist your arm. So tough.

Don't cry.

Oh gosh.

Yeah. So what we have for the second half here is the, I guess this is relatively new, right? David, when did this release? Yeah.

I mean, I got in my bottle, I think May of, uh, of this, uh, year. Yeah. And so just a couple of months ago, it was, it popped up in Oregon and a friend of mine let me know about it and, uh, magic. And I got it.

So it's the new wild turkey, rare breed barrel proof, fry whiskey. Yep. It is 112.2 proof. It is non-chill filtered. And I'm just going to take a stab at it and say, Bruce had something to do with this.

I am sure he did. I mean, honestly, you know, Rye for Wild Turkey, Jimmy's not a Rye fan, and he's never really been a Rye fan. And Eddie's not a huge Rye fan either or wasn't for the longest time. It was really Bruce who kind of reintroduced Eddie into Rye and helped shape Eddie's appreciation of it. And so you ended up with Russell's Reserve single barrel rye in 2013, Cornerstone coming out last year, 2019, and then you have rare breed rye this year in 2020. These expressions wouldn't have existed, in my opinion, had it not been for Bruce. And now, I think that wild turkey, with the exception of not really having near as many stocks as they do bourbon, I think they're poised for even greater success on the right side. It's just going to take a little bit of time for things to mature and have some more available barrels there.

But the market is growing and the demand is growing for Rye's. Definitely. The tastes, the palates of whiskey drinkers in America tend to shift a little bit more in the spicy direction, I think. Higher proof, more spice, is that true?

Yeah, I mean, I do. I think that there's several reasons for that. First of all, Rye is a great whiskey for cocktails. So this is no secret to bartenders. You know, in my opinion, more often than not, you can craft a more flavorful cocktail with a rye than you can a bourbon just because rye kind of sticks out. You know, it just has that signature spice. And I think that a lot of times when cocktails tend to lean sweet, which they often do. Rye is a good way to counter that balance and will actually counter the sweetness and introduce balance through that spiciness. Not that there aren't fantastic bourbon cocktails out there. There's many, many, many. But Rye just has a magic to it when it comes to crafting cocktails. I think people have picked up on that. And now I think that people are I think you kind of... I know when I first tried rye, straight rye, neat, whatever you want to say, it was like, wow, that's different. And it was not something that I appreciated as much as bourbon. But as time went on and I tried more ryes, different ryes from different producers of different maturities, I started really finding myself you know, leaning to it, you know, more nights than I had in the past to where now, you know, I'd say I probably 60% of the time I drink bourbon. And probably the other 39%, you know, I drink a rye and then maybe 1%, you know, I'll do Scotch or something, but, uh, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's a lot more, uh, prevalent in my, you know, um, rotation than it used to be.

Mike, what are you 98% and 2%?

I don't know. I'm, I'm opened it up a little bit, I guess. Uh, yeah. 98% wheat and 2% anything else. Whiskey. No, I think I probably have just as many. I've got a couple of bottles of right now at the house. Um, just for Jim, when he comes over really.

Yeah, I'm kind of the rye guy. I really gravitate towards the rise. Now let's talk about rice for a minute. There are different rise out there. You know, you've got rise that, well, the 95.5, the high rye content rise, and then you got what they call the Kentucky rise. And what does, what does rare breed qualify as?

Oh, it's definitely a Kentucky rye. It's like 52%. It's not, it's not anything heavy. It's, it's as close to bourbon as you're going to get, but still a rye, you know, they call barely legal. Barely legal, yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that Jimmy's just not a big rye fan. So when he, when he, you know, traditionally with wild turkey, their rye was always sourced. So it would come from Maryland or Pennsylvania or Illinois. And when Jimmy took over the rye production, which was in the 70s, he picked a recipe that he could palette. And not being a rye fan, I think that Naturally, that's going to be as low of a rye content as you can get and still call it a rye. It's still that signature wild turkey, and that's probably from the yeast. But it has that wild turkey touch to it. But I think what's really interesting to me is I think this is the area that wild turkey should be growing in. Wild turkey's bourbon recipe is just so signature Jimmy Russell. that you almost just don't want to mess with that. That's Wild Turkey's thing. Wild Turkey just has that one bourbon mash bill and they get their variants through maturation and locations of the rick houses. That's always been Wild Turkey's thing. But since rye is not really a Jimmy thing, I don't think anybody would have any problem whatsoever if Wild Turkey started introducing new rye mash bills, especially if they were like throwback. you know, rye mash bills, like, well, this was the recipe that we used, you know, back when we were getting rye from Pennsylvania, or this is the recipe that was used with Maryland's rye. And you kind of throw these into the rick houses for aging and pull them out, you know, six years from now, see what you get. You know, and you could have some type of, you know, throwback label or something in the sky's the limit, but this is an area that wild turkey can grow in without stepping on Jimmy's toes, you know, or legacy in any way, shape or form.

So do we have an idea right now, David, what kind of their rice stocks look like and the age, the ages that are available for them to work with on their blending or whatever?

I don't have a number, but you know, it's significantly less than the bourbon, but it's growing because they realized the rye trend was happening and they started producing more rye. They essentially doubled their rye production, which is still so much less than their bourbon production. But I think that you're going to see a lot more barrels coming of age real soon. Of course, you can introduce a younger rye to the market a lot easier than you can a younger bourbon to the market. And of course, in this rare breed rye, has four year in it. So, um, you know, if, if you had to age state rare breed right, it would be a four year whiskey. Um, but it doesn't taste youthful to me. It just tastes like a good solid Kentucky ride with a lot of peppery kick to it. Um, it's that rare breed, that signature wild turkey boldness as I like to call it. Well, let's, let's nose this thing.

Okay.

Let's do it.

I've already noticed a whole bunch.

So this is, this is for me. I have not had this before. So today, right now, this is my first try on this.

Well, I don't want to influence you. So you, you, you let me know what you're thinking.

I get some, uh, this is gonna sound funny, but I get some brownie, um, from this, some chocolate brownies.

You know what? I've never gotten that in this, but when you said that, that happens in whiskey a lot. You throw out some suggestions and it's all subjective and you can kind of integrate that into your own noses. But to me, I agree with you. There is some type of like, you know, you pull the brownies out of the oven and they have that chocolate, that bitterness to it, that smell. It's like that bittersweet. Yeah. Totally see where you're getting that.

A little bit of floral notes in there that country honeysuckle coming through a little bit.

Yeah. I'm getting honeysuckle. I'm getting mint too. Yep.

Absolutely. And, and I get, I get honey lemon. I get like honey and lemon. I get like honey lemon tea, herbal tea, these types of things. Uh, also, uh, in one note that I get in wild turkeys rye, uh, expressions a lot of times is like frosting or like vanilla icing. So you get like that, that sharp or not like a buttercream icing, but like, you know, your old fashioned, like cake icing where it had that zing to it. So I get like that vanilla icing.

I told somebody the other day, or I, we posted about another, uh, rye gym. Uh, I posted about a rye and I said it tasted, the finish on it was like a malted shake, uh, cause it had so much malted rye in it. And, uh, some guy commented on one of the groups and he's like, you don't ever say he has like a milk taste to it. I was like, That's not what I'm talking about.

Yeah. He's thinking Ovaltine, I guess. But yeah, one thing I think to me, and now that you've tasted it, Jim, you might see what I'm saying here. The nose on rear-breed rye is very similar to like Russell's, I'm sorry, Wild Tricky 101 rye. So Wild Tricky 101 rye and the nose on rear-breed rye are very similar in a lot of ways. Maybe just kicked up a little bit. But now once you taste rear-breed rye, it's its own thing. I mean, it's like you've just, the roller coaster has now went over the hill and it's not stopping anytime soon. And that finish is just nice and long and peppery. It has a nice bold kick to it and that to me is where rare breed rye shines is in that palette and especially the finish. That's where you know it has its own little thing so you got like 101 rye and you got like Russell 6 and Russell single barrel rye and this has its own it occupies its own little niche in the rye catalog.

This actually got a little orange creamsicle

Yeah, I get citrus on, uh, while turkeys ride all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. So this is really good. It kind of races right past the front of the palette and just really kind of bold on the back end. I've, uh, I'm getting like, uh, I liked what you said about the nose, that honey lemon kind of citrus tea, maybe a, yeah, a little bit of mint, maybe a honey lemon mint citrus tea. And when you put it on the palette. It kind of, you don't get that upfront sweetness. It kind of goes straight to the back and it, it's got that nice rounded flavor to it. I really like the, um, I get a little bit of the oak coming through and the peppercorn, maybe a little bit of peppercorn.

Yeah, I get a black pepper on it. When you first taste it, it has this super brief sweetness. It's like, I'm going to be sweet. Oh, no, I'm not. It's like spice central. Like I said, it's like a roller coaster. You know, I think the example I used on my blog was that, you know, it's like somebody comes over and kicks the door in and it's like a good friend that comes in and raids your fridge and props his muddy boots up on your table. I mean, it's like you love him, but he's here to stay and he's coming in strong, you know.

I don't get that, but either one of you are saying, I guess I get that sweetness and it stays with me with a sweet spice, almost like a sweet pepper coming through. I do get that sweetness, that, that orange creamsicle coming through. And then then you, like you said, it kind of punches in the back of the throat a little bit with that pepper, not overpowering, but it's still, the sweetness is still there. Even with a finish, the sweetness is there for me.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing in different tastings, you can get different things, different folks get different things. I think what I do is I compared in my head to other wild turkey expressions. So let's say I was sipping the Russell six year, that's going to be a real sweet sipper. You know, it's going to be a lot of honey just in vanilla, like, you know, pretty much from nose palette to finish. You're not going to get a lot of spice. You're not going to get a lot of boldness. So in comparison to like that, this is like, it kicks it up a notch significantly. It definitely has a kick to it.

And I, whenever I say I'm a weeded guy, it's more weeded bourbon and not a rye bourbon guy, but you know, the more rice I drink and the more I taste, um, I just, I'm starting to fall in love with those, those rice. Never, I'll never be, not be a weeded guy, but rye whiskey though. Um, especially this one's delicious.

Oh yeah. That's great.

Yeah. So this is a little bit bolder than I expected it to be.

You know, that's got some youth to it. Like as far as like numbers and to me, it doesn't come across like cardboard or any of that kind of stuff where you have that. Don't take me wrong when I said it has youth to it as in it's got negative youthful notes. It's got that four year whiskey to it. So it's going to have that, that rye kick to it, but it's great. I love it.

Yeah, it's really good. That's a sipper. No doubt about it.

So David, can you take us through like wild turkeys history? Like where to start and where, where's it at today?

So, I mean, you have, essentially you have the distillery and its history, and then you have the brand and its history and they kind of, you know, combine at some point and then you involve two families like the Rippies and then you have the Russells and then there's several companies in between there, but. The distillery that's now Wild Turkey Distillery, and I'm talking about the general location because they've had a brand new distillery built in 2011, but that area, that spot that's known as Wild Turkey has been distilling whiskey for a long time. In the 1800s, it was known as Old Moore for a while. It was purchased by James P. Rippey Jr., who basically He ran that for several years as Old Hickory Springs. He sold it to his nephews, the sons of the great distiller T.B. Rippey. His nephews named it Rippey Brothers. It operated until Prohibition, closed down and back up as Rippey Brothers again. It was purchased by the Gould Brothers. They called it Anderson County Distilling Company for a few years, then changed it to J.T.S. Brown & Sons. It operated as J.T.S. Brown & Sons all the way up until 1971. when Austin Nichols and Company, which was a wholesale grocer from New York or from Brooklyn, I should say, they purchased it and it became the Austin Nichols distillery. It was purchased by Pernod in 1980. And then they changed the name of it to Boulevard, but it was still known as the Austin Nichols Distillery formally. They sold to Campari in 2009, and now it's the Wild Turkey Distillery. The brand started in the late 30s, early 40s, but it didn't introduce to market until 42. And that started because an executive at Austin Nichols and company named Thomas McCarthy was fond of wild turkey hunting and he would take bourbon from their storage to these hunting trips and his friends would always request that he bring the wild turkey bourbon because that's how they were familiar with it and you know light bulb went off this is going to be a great brand they introduced wild turkey it becomes a favorite among you know, a lot of Americans, including celebrities and presidents. And, and so today we still have wild turkey. It's, it's, you know, kind of changed in the mindset of the American people over time. I mean, it was, it was actually a very prestigious brand for a while. And then it, it, when the counterculture hit and bourbon took a dive, you know, it became more associated with, you know, the old man's whiskey. And then it kind of turned into the, the college whiskey. And I think now people are finally realizing that there's more to Wild Turkey than what they were originally, you know, brought up to believe, you know, growing up. So that's just like a real quick in a nutshell. There's a lot more history to it with the Rippies. There's a lot more history to it with the Russells. And there's a lot more history about Austin Nichols going all the way back to the mid 1800s. So if you want to learn about all that, you can check out my blog or probably the best source is my book. And you can really dig in in the book and find out a lot more about both the brand and the whiskey itself.

Yeah, for history nuts like me, that book was just, it's amazing. Oh, thank you. I can't wait to finish it. I'm just a nut on history. But the distillery itself is actually a beautiful place. Not when you drive, really drive up through the warehouses. To me, it's just kind of industrial there. But once you get to the visitor center, and you walk into the visitor center, it's kind of the cathedral of whiskey distilleries inside there. It's very beautiful. And then you get to overlook the Kentucky river, which is, that's Americana itself right there.

Yeah. When you take that bridge across the Kentucky river, you know, it's pretty thrilling. And you see the distillery in the distance and you're just like, oh, this is, you know, it's like your heart kind of skips a beat. Love it. That drive is just, that's just killer.

Now, what is that one warehouse that's right there down towards the river and the bridge?

A. Is that A? A is the oldest rick house at Wild Turkey. It's been there ever since James Rippey started the, well, he bought old Moore, but I believe he built that rick house A when it was old Hickory Springs. And I talked about this on another podcast. I love that Rickhouse A has all this history within itself. And so, you know, you got to think about all of the barrels that have aged in there over the years and how they've all left their mark, you know, their angel share in the wood, the bracing and all that. And, you know, so when you're in Rickhouse A and you're smelling, you know, those Rickhouse smells, you're smelling, you're literally smelling history. You know, that wood has, you know, a history to it.

So you've written this book. Do you think you have a second idea? Do you have a second book in you?

Uh, well, I don't want to spoil anything yet. Um, I am working on another book right now. It's not about wild Turkey, but it relates to wild Turkey in some ways. Um, it is whiskey centered or bourbon centered. Um, so more on that, you know, on another time, maybe, maybe the next time around, uh, you know, another year from now, I'll have more to tell you.

Is that wild like wild Turkey, 2027 where they got weeded whiskey.

I don't think we're going to do we did it while tricky, but you never know. You never know.

So Joanne and Bruce, they're the new guard, right? So how do we expect things to kind of change under them? Do you think obviously one of the things is a sort of the propagation of the rye expressions, but what else do you expect to see out of the, out of the new youth?

Well, you know, it's interesting because I think that, you know, one of the big things and that a lot of people forget about Jimmy Russell, you know, he's known as this master distiller, this legendary master distiller. But Jimmy is the ultimate brand ambassador. Jimmy just has a humor to him. He has a relatable quality. He can talk to anybody. He can talk to you for hours. Jimmy, back when Bourbon was in the glut era and Bourbon was in the dumps, Ian Booker and some of those legendary master distillers like Parker and Elmer, they helped bring people back to Bourbon just by talking about it, just by meeting with people, just by going to these events, whether it was at a store or a festival. And these are in the times when Scotch was big and Bourbon was nothing, you know. And I think people realized that there was something, you know, to these individuals, particularly Jimmy Russell, And, you know, he got people re-interested in the booze that was considered kind of like the everyman, the working man's kind of booze. And, you know, he made it cool again. So, the reason why I bring up that is because, you know, Joanne is a brand ambassador and Bruce is a brand ambassador. And I think that The responsibility is on their shoulders right now to keep people interested in the brand, much like their grandfather. And it's a very important job. I know a lot of people, they think of the words brand ambassador. You know, as like, well, that's just kind of like a marketing person, you know, and I don't think so. I think that, yeah, there are those people out there. There are people that are just getting a paycheck. They're brand ambassadors for a whiskey brand and they're doing the gigs that they got to do. And then they go home and they could care less about whiskey like we do. OK. But, you know, Joanne and Bruce are passionate about what they do. just like Jimmy. And I think that's a very important thing to have if you want to build your brand. You've got to connect with people and you got to have people that believe in their product. And what better way to show it than to have, you know, these grandchildren of the most legendary master distiller in the world.

I think that shows they're, they relate to people. They're just normal people, right?

Exactly.

Um, and they're very approachable. The whole family is very approachable. You'll hear stories about Jimmy being in Lawrenceburg, eating at a restaurant there and just that, that, that is where they go to eat. Yeah. And they almost eat out all the time. Right. So, That's, that's their thing. Um, Eddie's eaten in town and Bruce is eating in a town.

And so we're just normal folks, just like, just like you and me. And there, there are a lot of brand ambassadors out there, you know, not just, not saying necessarily bourbon, but in Scotch or other spirits, rum and such it, you know, you have some, like I said, that just kind of punch the clock and do what they got to do. And then you have some that, uh, they kind of come across a little bit snobby, you know, like I'm an expert. And you're going to listen to me talk to you for an hour about how I know everything about there is, you know, about whiskey and our brand. And, you know, I think people kind of get turned off by that. They're like, I have heard all this before and, you know, yada, yada, yada. And you're not really going to get that with with. you know, Bruce or Joanne, like, you know, if you like to drink wild turkey with Mountain Dew, you know, or if you like a bowler maker or, you know, just a, you know, quick and dirty cocktail, they're going to be all for it. You know, yeah, that's, you know, you drink wild turkey how you like to drink it, you know, they're not going to get snobby on you. You know, they'll teach you whatever you would like to know about whatever expression you'd like to know about. But you're not going to have some whiskey snob when you talk with with with any of the Russell's. They're very approachable. And, uh, you know, they, they care about their brand and they care about their customers. Most importantly.

Well, David, you know, a lot of us started out drinking, uh, our whiskey or bourbon, uh, not straight, you know, not in a, not in a Glen Karen, but, uh, in a glass with something else in it, whether it be Mountain Dew or ale eight one or Coke, you know, whatever it would be.

Yeah.

and you know we all came through that and there's people we've got people in our in our group now who still drink bourbon and cokes and you know we did an episode recently on that because and it's one of our most popular episodes of all times now it may be popular because It's so unpopular to talk about, but at the same time, you know, there's a lot of people out there that are coming through that gateway, you know, the gateway of mixing and then eventually finding their way to sipping on bourbon meat. But yeah.

And sometimes they don't. Sometimes people just like bourbon. a certain way, like they like it in Coke or they like it in ginger ale. They're not going to change. You know, I see people all the time at the liquor store buying handles of Evan Williams or 101 or whatever, and they're going to go home when they're going to dump it in, you know, whether it's tea or iced tea or sweet tea or, you know, ginger ale or Coke or whatever. Uh, and that's the way they like drinking it. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. You know, a lot of us, like they get serious about it, like us, you know, we, we move into neat, but, uh, most of America probably does not, you know, I tell you what, what is 95 degrees outside and you're cutting grass.

You got a hankering for a little bourbon. It's tough to drink it neat. Right. Yeah.

No, no. When it depends on what I'm doing and what the temperature is. But if it's real hot and I'm going to be out for a long period of time, I do love, you know, some bourbon on the rocks. There is no problem with that at all. Matter of fact, I've actually been fond lately of long branch as a good outdoor summer bourbon because it's lower in proof, but it's not lower in age. So you get that nice, you know, eight year bourbon. at 86 proof and, uh, you know, throw it over a couple of cubes and, you know, yeah, the ice melts and that kind of thing. But if you're just out there, just playing with, you know, the, the family or the grilling or whatever, it's just fine, you know?

Has Wild Turkey kind of walked away from Matthew McConaughey? I haven't seen his commercials on.

I mean, he's still involved. He is the creative director for the brand. They had a charity event last year where they gave back to first responders and he was there for that. He's just not as high profile as he was say in 2018 because that was the launch of Long Branch. So you saw him everywhere for a period of time there. I'm not sure. I'm not privy to all that. That's some big money and some big contracts, I'm sure. But from what I understand, he's still definitely involved in the brand. He had the Talk Turkey series end of last year as well. The YouTube series called Talk Turkey. You got to check it out.

Maybe it's just the COVID that is kind of slowing everything down.

The COVID is slowing everything down. I mean, it really is. It's messing with every brand, not just Wild Turkey.

I love the guy because he, you know, he's a Texas Longhorns fan. I say hook him horns. And I love that he still uses, all right, all right, all right.

Yeah. When I think of McConaughey, I don't, I don't think Wild Turkey. I just think, you know, uh, like, you know, true detective and, and, uh, movies that I've been fond of, I, to me is very much an actor. Um, but I think it's cool that he's not just. He's not just making commercials where he's just like sipping it and going, you know, Hey, wild turkey, you know, he's, he's involved in, uh, different aspects of the brand, uh, particularly shaping his own expression, long branch.

So I'm, I'm certain that he's brought a few young ladies to bourbon. There's no doubt about it.

You know, it would not surprise me at all if, if the numbers have gone up, thanks to his effort. Right.

I think they're buying more. What's that car that, that, that car he does the commercials of all the time?

Lincoln. Lincoln. I'm sure you sold a few Lincolns too. Have you ever seen the Jim Carrey parody commercial he did for Starrant Live where he did the Lincoln commercial as Matthew McConaughey? I have not. Oh man, it's gold. You got to try. I would, I would try to do it for you, but I'm just not that talented and I would ruin it. So if anybody's listening, you know, check it out on YouTube. I'm sure you could find it. It's hilarious. Oh, it's great. He nails it.

Well, David, it's been a pleasure to have you on again. It's always great to drink some wild turkey expressions, especially with you. You're such a wealth of knowledge. We'd like to give you the opportunity to let all our listeners know where they can find you, where they can find your blog, where they can find your book, what you have going on, your Patreon, anything you'd like to let them know about now. Please do.

Okay, well my blog is rarebird101.com and on that site you will find plenty of wild turkey reviews, you'll find articles about history of wild turkey, and some other things like how to decipher bottle codes and such. I have a Patreon account which is patreon.com slash rarebird101. If you're interested in getting a lot more information from me because I try to post on Patreon, you know, about every other day or so, as opposed to my blog, which is once a week. I also interact with the community on Discord through Patreon. If you're looking to talk to turkey fans about expressions or share your recipes for blends or pictures or stories or whatever, We're always talking to each other every night. I have a Twitter account, which is at our bird 101. And I have a Instagram, which is that rare bird 101. And I'd love to talk to you if you have any questions about wild turkey or just want to chat. You can reach me, you can DM me, email me through my website. And I'll be happy to answer your questions or just talk turkey.

All right. Well, David, we certainly have enjoyed your time here with us. I've been a long time patron of yours. I've also...

Yes, I appreciate that.

Yeah. I love the content you put out to your Patreon people. It's really wonderful. Your blog is always a must go to, no doubt about it. Thank you. As far as we go, we're the Bourbon Road. You can find us on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all at the Bourbon Road. We have a private Facebook group.

So we got the bourbon roadies. It's growing every day. You can join our group. It's right around 750 people right now. You got to ask her three questions. Are you 21? Do you drink bourbon? And do you agree to play nice? We just don't tolerate any rudeness in there. We say you're bourbon your way. It's your bourbon road, or you drink it how you want to with Coke, ginger ale, L8-1, whatever you're going to put in a Mountain Dew. So we do have master distillers in there. We've got industry leaders that will answer your questions. Always somebody in there saying something. Join our group. If you're listening to this episode right now and you haven't subscribed, scroll up, subscribe to our podcast for whatever app you're using to listen to us on. And please leave us a review on whatever you're listening to. That's what opens the doors. That's how we get to talk to guys like Rare Bird 101. Those reviews help us out.

You can find me at one big chief. I'm Jay Shannon 63. And you be sure to check us out every week, guys. We're putting out at least two episodes. We do a short format episode every Monday where we review a craft distillery. And on Wednesdays we have a long format. We bring a guest on like David and we chat with them in detail. We do also have a website, the bourbonroad.com. We invite you to come in there, check out our blog. Mike writes most of them. He does a pretty good job. And, uh, you can listen to the podcast there. You can also communicate with us. We do have our merch on there as well. We do have some Glent and Karen. So if that's something you'd like to pick up, please invite you to do so. And, uh, we will see you down the bourbon road. We do appreciate all of our listeners and we'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to hang out with us here on the Bourbon Road. We hope you enjoyed today's show, and if so, we would appreciate if you'd subscribe and rate us a five star with a review on iTunes. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, at The Bourbon Road. That way you'll be kept in the loop on all the Bourbon Road happenings. You can also visit our website at thebourbonroad.com to read our blog, listen to the show, or reach out to us directly. We always welcome comments or suggestions, and if you have an idea for a particular guest or topic, be sure to let us know. And again, thanks for hanging out with us.